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I'm a member of another club, the boys-wouldn't-leave-her-alone-because-she-developed-a-freakishly-large-chest-at-a-very-early-age-and-girls-therefore-thought-she-was-a-stuck-up-witchy-slut club.
I'm living proof that being on the other end of the spectrum (a girly-girl who always got lots of male attention) can also stink.
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Haha, my stream of conscience after reading littlemissattitude's post really amused me, so I thought I'd share:
"Yeah totally...my Barbies divorced the Kens and started these really cool careers that involved sky diving and saving the world...hm, that would make a really interesting thread...'What did you make your Barbies do?'"
Hee Bev, yeah I would lose interest too after the boys told me I was too freaky for them.
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And really, what bugs me about the behavior is that people should be nice to everyone, not just "the hot ones". And if they are, you can't trust that. They are only being nice to get something.
Mrs. M, I have heard others say similar things. I will have to take your word for it, since that is a club I wanted to be a member of most of my life.
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Mrs. M: There were a couple of girls I knew that were well developed and got tons of attention from the boys. (In case anyone's confused, I have NEVER been part of this club.) I always felt worse for them than I did for myself, because they couldn't go anywhere without being hounded. One of them was plagued by boys who claimed to be her "friends" but followed her around saying things like "It's kinda nipply in here" and "I think it might get hooter, I mean, hotter." I was so upset for her because it was a humiliation that I couldn't imagine enduring. It was painful to watch her attempt to smile at them and take it in good humor; I think she honestly thought there was nothing she could do. Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
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My little sister is devastatingly gorgeous. She's also funny and nice and has friends who are "nerds." Where was she when I was in high school? She has the over-attraction problem. She can't go anywhere and meet new people without attracting a few new boys who are madly in love with her. I do really admire how she handles it, though. She basically doesn't give them the time of day unless they can interact with her on a decent human level. Posts: 8504 | Registered: Aug 1999
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Hmm...the extent of my ideas about my hypothetical wedding is the list of silly things I want to do at the rehearsal (and the actual ceremony if I can get away with it.) Things such as..."Mawwage is wot bwings us togethahh today," or marching down the aisle to something other than wedding music. Either that, or I'm going to have a Betazoid wedding. Then I wouldn't have to worry about picking out a dress for me or anyone else.
I don't have the girly gene either. I prefer t-shirts and shorts (or jeans/khakis when it's cold). Skirts feel uncomfortable, and I don't really like wearing dresses. I still don't carry a purse, and I can count the number of times I've worn makeup on one hand. To me, clothes are functional, not decorative, and I choose my wardrobe accordingly.
When I was little, I had no interest in horses and I didn't play with dolls. I don't remember clearly what I spent all my time doing, but my guess is I mostly read books, played outdoors, and built things with legos. As I got older, my interests shifted to just books.
I've sort of had the same problem that others here have had with guys--I was once told by a friend that my guy friends don't view me as someone to potentially date. They view me as competition in other arenas, mostly academics. I was also told by someone else that in general, most women compete for the attention of men, so I guess part of the problem is I'm not actively competing in this area and hence don't get any attention. I'm not interested enough in guys to want to alter myself so that I'll be more attractive, so either the right guy will fall out of the sky at my feet, or I'll just stay single for awhile longer.
Why is it, do you suppose, that a larger portion of the women here lack one or both girly alleles than in the general population?
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Oh, also - I heard once that the preteen fascination with horses was a subverted form of dealing with an attraction to masculinity. Supposedly, the horses are a safe outlet for the scary new feelings of being attracted to someone strong and big.
Any thoughts on that?
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Well, theoretically, it fits. But we all know how girls are; once one likes something and it's deemed kinda cool, more and more start to like it.
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If my memory of psychology class is accurate, Freud believed that the interest in horses was actually due to penis envy. What's odd is that it's the girly girls who seem to like horses the most, and the more masculine women are the ones who are accused of having penis envy when they are older and are competing with men in traditionally male fields.
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I just want to add that my psychology teacher told us that the thought Freud was wrong in most cases, and I'm inclined to agree. My guess on why girls like horses is that girls like animals in general, and horses are cool because you can ride them.
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Well in my case at about age 3 or 4 I wanted a pet whale. (I know I've said this before on hatrack). I think I actually tried to convince my parents to build an aquarium in our backyard. I figured if it took up the whole yard it would be big enough for at least a dolphin. But then I started learning more about habitats and realized that it would be a bad idea, even if it was possible, and I realized as I got older it was less and less possible.
So then I turned my attention to my parallel interests of horses and dogs, I think Misty of Chicoteague started it. I think I was only 5 or so when Mom read that to me too. Due to some friends, I was able to ride quite a bit as a kid from age 7 or so on. got my first dog at age 10. I wanted to be a veterinarian, but I was too young and they wouldn't let me be a volunteer assistant because of insurance. And because I started going to college so young, I had to make a decision on classes, and I ended up going the chemistry/physics route rather than the biological route, though I have all the pre-reqs to get into vet school except genetics.
posted
Yeah, I'm pretty much in the "Freud is full of crap" camp. I'm just wondering what the link is there, since horses are such a universal pre-teen girl obsession.
Ooh... other interesting question... is it universal? Does anyone who has experience with other cultures know if the horse phenomenon exists outside of the US?
I myself had a bit of a horse phase, but that's because my parents bought me a horse (an old nag, but I thought she was great) when I was 12 and I got to do the whole 4H thing. I would have been equally obsessed with a motorcycle had they bought me one. I had a roommate, though, whose family (5 girls) raises and trains racehorses for a living. She was 22 and her sisters all relatively close to her age, but all they ever discussed was horses. Really. Ever. I went out to dinner with her parents and they talked about horses the entire time and into the evening. I'd watch movies with her and she'd comment on the horses and the riding in the movie. It really baffled me. I'm thinking with her it was just a family environment thing rather than a psychological thing. I don't know...
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quote:since horses are such a universal pre-teen girl obsession.
I'd be careful on the universal. I was never obsessed with horses or anything like it. My best friend in elementary school had a horse and I tried to work up some sympathetic enthusiasm, but it never took. I didn't dislike them, but I didn't feel any more obsessed with horses than I was with dolphins or toasters.
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Yes, Godric, but the best artists always die early and tragically and full of spleen. I'm aiming for the "mediocrity keeps you alive" mentality.
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quote:One of them was plagued by boys who claimed to be her "friends" but followed her around saying things like "It's kinda nipply in here" and "I think it might get hooter, I mean, hotter." I was so upset for her because it was a humiliation that I couldn't imagine enduring. It was painful to watch her attempt to smile at them and take it in good humor; I think she honestly thought there was nothing she could do.
Boy, can I relate. It started for me when I was 10 and already a AA. I was pretty good at defending myself, though. It did make me incredibly self-consicous for years. My chest just kept getting bigger and bigger and while other girls were praying for theirs to grow, I was praying for mine to stop.
quote:Mrs. M, I have heard others say similar things. I will have to take your word for it, since that is a club I wanted to be a member of most of my life.
I guess the grass is always greener. I never wanted to go out with the types of guys who wanted to date me because of how I looked, so being in the club never helped me any.
What hurt me was when girls were ugly to me because of how I looked or because guys were interested in me.
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I was well endowed from a young age (I was a D cup in 7th grade) and it got me some attention from boys, but never anything positive. It was usually lewd comments yelled at me from passing cars as I walked home from school. Most of the boys who knew me completely ignored me, or called me "Alpo".
On the rare occasion that a boy did show mild interest in me, my best friend always told me it was because of my breasts. Actually, they were usually trying to get homework help.
As for the horse thing, I've never been crazy about horses. My grandfather and my uncle always had horses, but I was never much interested in them. My uncle once tried to get me to go into the pen with him to feed them, and I was too scared. He gave me grief for weeks about it, because he just "knew" that I must love horses, because all girls did.
I remember one girl in junior high school who never seemed to talk about anything but horses. She had a list of all the things she had to have before her parents would let her get a horse (tack etc). She sat in front of me in my math class and nearly every day she had an "update" for me. I couldn't have been less interested, and I can't imagine that she didn't pick up on that.
I always wanted a pet dragon, myself. Posts: 2069 | Registered: May 2001
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I started out a tomboy and have been gradually feminized. I wear make-up (but not a lot) for work, and a bit less to socialize casually (a bit more to socialize formally). None when I'm being a schlub.
And I loved horses (or, more specifically, books about horses) since long before puberty.
Having done the big-fancy-wedding thing (planned, mind, in about 3 months, and at a decent budget) which didn't quite pay off in the expected long-term-marriage, I hope to do it differently the next time. (If there is one.) I did the lovely dress I will never wear again (although other brides have ); next time I think I'll go with a dressy suit. Something nice, but that I can wear again.
Then again, I hate sewing. So clearly my female genes are somewhat flawed as well. Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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AJ, I understand about the girly girl thing.
When I was little I never planned weddings. I dreamt about being in the Famous 5 (as George) or at Malory Towers (midnight feasts!) rather than fairy tales. And when I got given Barbies I played games which invaraibly ended with the doll decapitated (I think they were tribal sacrifices) and buried. Often the head and body buried separatly.
(Kinda creepy now I think about it)
Now I'm planning my own wedding. I haven't exactly gone wedding crazy - the wedding is in January. I plan on buying the dress in the December sales. But part of me is getting seduced by the whole thing - I actually had a fight with Tony the other day about 'economising' on my dress. (It's still going to be under $500. ). I didn't expect that to happen and it took me kind of by suprise - but I guess all the attention on me, the pretty shoes and dresses and flowers and music - it all sort of creeps up and then suddenly you're reading bridal magazines.
Maybe I should just elope.
(Maui Babe - I agree, I hate how people start getting fussed about planning time. It is completely possible to plan a wedding in less than a year. )
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Someone (guess it was Annie) who asked for non-U.S. oppinions about the horsie stuff. Xana (my girlfriend) said (I asked her in behalf of the thread) that she was always a tomboy (even today she almost always use jeans, never liked barbies, liked to run around and climb trees), and that she liked animals a lot, since early age. She always wanted to ride horses, but never could. Then, she asked for a cat, and had cats her whole life.
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That's a good one Mr. Freud! The man so obsessed with fallics that he thought the rest of us were as well.
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I was never one of "the girls that got asked out." I was small for my age, wore glasses and had more "jeopardy knowledge" than the law allowed. Oh, and I didn't want to be the princess who was rescued by the brave (ack) knight. I wanted to be the one that got to wield the sword and kick butt. I think that goes back to my being small.
What I figured out, eventually, after feeling all the unattractive feelings that girls that aren't asked out feel, is that I am as beautiful, powerful and amazing as I choose to be. Once I figured that out, I was able to be confident enough to attract men.
I've also noticed that on the days I feel like a "goddess" I get more attention than on days I feel and act like a mere mortal. It's all attitude. I don't always feel like a goddess, and that's ok. It's enough sometimes to know that the goddess, warrior, and (ewwww) even the girly-girl is inside me.
Oh, and I was never a big horse girl. I loved cats and still do.
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On horses: I don't think I would have gotten into them if it hadn't been for one of my close friends being horse-crazy. I wasn't aware of it being a "girl thing" at the time though.
Horses are beautiful, strikingly so. As are cats. I say this as an artist who has always felt particularly interested in drawing animals. What other creature is so shapely, has a long flowing mane, and you can join with it, partake of it's power and grace, moving together as one? What's not to like?
And, yeah, I can see it being a sex/masculine symbol.
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I think its not so much a sex/masculine thing as it is more of a sensuality thing. The thing that is striking with this conversation is that we all focus on the way the horse (or cat) moves it's body, how it has a mane and the "poetry" of the animal.
Pre-teen girls are drawn to things that are sensual because, maybe, they aren't sure how to respond to the sexual stuff that's going on inside their heads at the time. Maybe the horse/cat thing is a building block to later things.
Of course, I'm an English teacher, not a psychologist...go figure.
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Jess does that explain attraction to horses at age 5? I mean my obsession with them started even before I could legitimately be called "pre-teen" more like "pre-school" Where does that leave me other than a weirdo?
quote:Oh, also - I heard once that the preteen fascination with horses was a subverted form of dealing with an attraction to masculinity. Supposedly, the horses are a safe outlet for the scary new feelings of being attracted to someone strong and big.
Any thoughts on that?
Explains a lot. I never had any "scary feelings" around being attracted to "someone strong and big". Was always quite comfortable with that idea. Guess I just didn't need the horses.
But, I do have to say that I'm pretty glad I never was into the horse thing. If I had been, I might have been tempted to go along when a friend of mine in junior high kept inviting me to go horseback riding with her. Turned out the place she was going riding was the Spahn Ranch, and it was Charlie Manson's "girls" who were running the operation at the time. I'm really glad I didn't go with her.
Edit: to add that the whole "penis envy" theory cracks me up.
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I'd lay good money down that the term 'penis envy' was invented so people could say the word 'penis' in polite society.
I'm actually waiting for 'Beefy McManstick Envy' to start sweeping the nation. My dinner table repertoire will really take off, then!
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I think a five year old can have a sensual response to something. At that age maybe sensual can be more connected to what a child thinks is beautiful or powerful than the sex thing. So, it's possible that you're not a weirdo, BannaOj.
But then weird is relative. Posts: 392 | Registered: Aug 2004
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I never wanted to go out with the types of guys who wanted to date me because of how I looked, so being in the club never helped me any.![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
always told me it was because of my breasts. Actually, they were usually trying to get homework help.![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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I wear make-up (but not a lot) for work, and a bit less to socialize casually (a bit more to socialize formally). None when I'm being a schlub. ![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
