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Annie, pretty much. Betwen '96 and '99 (and even a fair bit beyond) I was pretty much a lurker. I was "Erik" in Battle School way at the eginning, and I dabbled in some Hatrak River 1830s. I remember the Hansens and Waltons of the world (especially if someone else mentions them . WAAAY back, in the first incarnation of the board, I posted under my actual name, I think. And despite what TomD thinks, it was in a format that pre-dates the ML that you see in the Wayback machine (archive.org), though it may just have been an early version of BML.
quote:But simply because I'm sassy I will point out that on Hatrack's main page there is a letter to "Hatrackers" from OSC.
I'm glad you mentioned that, SO, because I never would of noticed it on my own.
[edit] I know "Jatraquero" predates me when I first started posting here in... what? 2002? I remember some of the "old mythos" referenced by the vetrans. I was eated by Slash (crispied, first, I believe). I remember Thor ranting in all capital letters. I remember a few uproars, although the details I cannot reacal.
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If "Jatraquero" is supposed to be Portuguese, then it doesn't contain any noise resembling the "H" of "Hatrack". The Portuguese "J" makes a "zh" sound, like in French.
Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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Interestingly enough, that's how I pronounce the term "Jatraquero" anyway, although I know it is supposed to be an "h".
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quote: If "Jatraquero" is supposed to be Portuguese, then it doesn't contain any noise resembling the "H" of "Hatrack". The Portuguese "J" makes a "zh" sound, like in French.
This is true. If it were Portugese, it should be Ratraquero.
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You all don't remember David_Bowles and his legendary debates with Jacare Sorridente on the inferiority of the Portuguese language, but trust me, jatraqueros is not Portuguese.
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Boo yeah, keep those royalty checks rolling in. They are what enables me to live in this luxurious splendor to which I am accustomed. <waves arms around vaguely at second-hand cat-clawed furnishings>
Actually, I think I am one of the worst offenders. I generally find myself saying "hatrackers", mainly because it's gender neutral. I think jatraqueros/as is extremely cool, though, and am tickled to be considered co-creator of the term, though I really think David Bowles should take full credit.
What I really really want, in lieu of the enormous sums in royalties that are due to me and currently outstanding, is one of those "kiss me, I'm a jatraquera" t-shirts from kamacon. I am very sorry I missed the opportunity to get one of those when they were going. They look great on everyone in the pictures.
A certain baby brother of mine is reported to have one, even, despite the gender bending implications. <makes puppy eyes> <suggests the possibility of homemade cookies in someone's future>
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It's supposed to be gender neutral, like the phrase "man forging his destiny", but it still would feel weird to use that as the title of a statue of a pregnant chick with a baby on one hip and a toddler by the hand, you know? So it's not REALLY gender-neutral, cause most people who saw a statue like that would probably think the nondepicted father was the person named in the title.
Anna, now if we can just get together 8 more people who want one, we could do another run on cafepress for a reasonable price! Otherwise, (and assuming we can pry one loose from Noah or someone else), I defer to you, since having a t-shirt like that which is not in the native language of the county in which you reside would just be so so cool!
Js are pronounced in portuguese too, which is why I pronounce "Jatraqueros" wrong in my head most of the time. I say it with a soft j sound and everyone else uses the "h." Too bad. Posts: 6415 | Registered: Jul 2000
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Portuguese pronunciation is darned tricky. And I want to actually learn this accursed language?
Not that I'm going to pronounce "Rio de Janeiro" any differently in English speech, mind you. "Rio day Zha-narrow" is the established pronunciation in English, and the only one most English speakers will even understand. But still, it's useful knowing how actual Brazilians would say it.
quote:Jemmy, what language is "Jatraqueri?" Latin?
Only if the singular form were "Jatraquerus". Which, I should point out, would be pronounced "Yatra-queroos". Yes, the Latin "qu" is the same as the English "qu". If we wanted to make a Latin form of "Hatracker", I think it would probably be "Hatracerus". Plural "Hatraceri". Feminine "Hatracera". Feminine plural "Hatracerae". The Latin "H" makes the same sound as English, and the "C" is always hard (think "K" sound), even before an "E".
*Tries to think of a language where the singular "O" becomes a plural "I".*
Ah, I've got it! Italian! Of course, we have the same "J" problem with Italian, in that the Italian "J" sounds, not like an English "H", but like an English "Y".
But then, there is as little reason to render it into Italian or Latin as into Spanish. If we must use any non-English language, Portuguese makes the most sense. This is OSC, after all.
So yeah, I think I'd prefer to stick with "Ratraquero". Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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Hatrack'll do that to you Jemmy! Welcome to the forums, by the way--don't think I've greeted you directly.
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Who cares what word gets used? As long as it looks like it contains some derivative of the word "hatrack" in it when you're looking at it sideways, you'll know what it means.
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Wait a minute Verily, the "c" in Hatraceri would be a "ch" sound, would it not? In church latin I believe that's the case. In Germanic latin we'd probably hear a "ts" sound so it would sound like "A-tra-tse-ree." (I've never ever pronounced the "H" as an english H. I've always been told that it's supposed to be silent.)
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Ah, but the pronunciation of "Church" Latin is based on Italian. The Catholic Church today pronounces Latin, not as Latin, but as if it were a form of Italian. I was referring to Classical Latin. The Latin as spoken by the Roman civilization itself, such as Cicero used to such devastating effect.
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Yes, the "H" in classical Latin was pronounced. If we could go back in time and write the word "Hatracerus", show it to Cicero, and ask him to say it out loud, he would say "Hatrakeroos". I'm not sure how the "H" became silent in most (or all?) of the modern Romance languages, but in Latin it was not.
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Thanks Neomon. I've been a closet Jatcraquejed for years, and I've decided I'd like to try to break out of my shell.
Incidentally, I take great delight in mixing my linguistics -- since I often don't know how to say it right I figure I'll just say something that sounds like it could be right somewhere. Which leaves a great deal of leeway.
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Thanks to this fine thread, I *finally* understand what all this "Jatraquero" business. (I was lost, believe you me.) I think it's quite fun. It rolls off the tongue. I've been saying it to myself over and over on and off for about a day now, just because it's so fun to say. Posts: 119 | Registered: Oct 2004
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That's interesting Jemmy. It would be odd to be in a situation where you felt like you knew everybody else in the room fairly well, but none of them knew you. Tell us a bit about yourself!
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Not really. It's a bit more complicated then, say, Spanish, but it is extremely regular. Once you know the rules, there's nothing else to learn. If you see a Portugese word written down, there is only one way it can be pronounced. There are almost no irregularly pronounced words in Portuges.
It mostly works the other way, but not quite. There's one sound I think of that has three different ways of spelling it, but that's it. Other than that, it's simple to know how to spell a word if you know how to pronounce it.
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Was there something wrong with your link? Worked fine for me.
Neomon, I really don't feel like I know many people very well. I recognize lots of screen names, and quite a few of your screen 'voices' are familiar to me (I tend to gravitate toward peacemaker types and I'm afraid of those who seem to enjoy stirring up controversy). I'm constantly impressed by the community here. Jatraqueros are so dang smart! And civil. And compassionate.
Narnia beat me to linking my introduction post, which is good since I don't yet know how to link. I tend to be introverted, although my social needs are really strong. I can be very open about personal things and sensitive issues. Still single, no family yet, expect that'll change eventually. I'm a music NUT. I love Robert Heinlen, PDQ Bach, and Middle-Earth Role Playing. And long walks on the beach . . .
Oh, and if you let me get started, I talk too much.
Posts: 270 | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote: I guess I'm part of SO's first group. I've noticed the drop off in "Jatraqueros," and even the occasional posts against it. Well, communities, like most things, change over time. But I will be sad to see this meme fall into disuse. Can't we have our inexplicable, cloudy-origined traditions? I think such things add to a community, because they create a sense of longevity. Sure, they make it harder to fit right in, at first, but I believe they make the community a bit more meaningful when you finally do pick up on all the little conventions.
There is something to be said for tradition.
If that just makes me old, or mean or standoffish or something, so be it.
You and I should totally be the Statler and Waldorf of Hatrack, Icky.
We're curmudgeonly enough, and I'm rather taken with the idea of morphing into an oddly-endearing gray-headed old man. Puppet.
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. WAAAY back, in the first incarnation of the board, I posted under my actual name, I think. And despite what TomD thinks, it was in a format that pre-dates the ML that you see in the Wayback machine (archive.org), though it may just have been an early version of BML.![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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I have to go retreat to my little world of self-delusionment now. Back to Yatrack River.
