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Because I don't have a TV (I know, how prehistoric) and am unlikely to go out of my way to find someone with HBO to check out the show, I was wondering if anyone saw it and get their takes on it.
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I always check out HBO series when they make it to DVD. To me, the series are the only reason to have HBO, and there aren't enough of them to justify the price. I certainly wouldn't subscribe for the movies. Posts: 6394 | Registered: Dec 1999
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I am intersted in how they portray polygamy, because in my experience depending on where it is practiced the practice of polygamy and how it affects the lives of those involved can vary widely.
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It made me uncomfortable because of the hectic way in which they lived. The man was pulled in every which-a-way and the women, (who you'd think would have an easier time with 3 to split the load) were overwhelmed with their vast numbers of children.
But then, my hubby and I were both from small families. Maybe someone from a big family would think that wasn't so bad...
Also, I think one reason I liked it more than my husband is that he had *no* point of reference for these people. He's a nice Jewish boy raised in California by North Eastern Liberal parents. I come from a state, though far from (Utah? NM?) in distance, very much like it in culture. That is, the Christian God was very important to me and most of the people I knew growing up. So I could relate better, especially to the little girl working at "Deb's Burger".
What I didn't like, from a storytelling point of view, was the way we were thrown into their troubles before we got to know them. I would have rather learned about the characters good points before we saw the cracks. Instead, we opened with the cracks, and hopefully, we'll see later why we should like these people and why their lifestyle should be saved.
As for how they lived... They kept refering to themselves *A* family. But they really didn't seem like a family to me. They had 3 houses with a common back yard, and each woman ran the household of their own house. In that, they seemed more like a Siamese-Triplet family, Joined at the Man and Wallet.
I got the feeling that their "love" was really simply "tolerance" and a barely sustainable tolerance at that. No one seemed happy.
Well, that was longer and more meandering than I had planned...
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Pixiest, thanks for the information. I'm intrigued now. But I'll be waiting for the DVD.
Chris Kidd- I read the article you linked too. I don't entirely understand the guy's concern about Big Love. I would think that being in the spotlight would make more people want to learn more about Mormons and from that you'd get the people who don't believe as well as the people who want to convert. What's the big deal? His concerns about Semptember Dawn make more sense.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Okay, I'll admit it. I loved The Da Vinci Code. And I loved Angels and Demons too. In my opinion, Dan Brown deserves every buck he's made. He's an incredible author. And good authors deserve to be read.
Here is what I don't understand. I thought The Da Vinci Xode was juvenile. Dan Brown deserves every penny he has made, but I don't think that it means that he is a great author or that those were great books. The characters were caricatures, shallow and uninteresting. The characters had the appearance of depth because Brown kept a tight lid on all of the information concerning them, and then doled out the information to maintain the appearance of depth.
The prose was quick, which isn't itself a sin, but the book was written in such a way that one would believe that the movie came first.
I'm happy that people are reading the book, or any book, but I get confused when people call The Da Vinci Code a great book or Dan Brown a great author.
Posts: 5600 | Registered: Jul 2001
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"I read the article you linked too. I don't entirely understand the guy's concern about Big Love."
The guys concern, as well as my own, is that people might not try to think past the first thought they have when watching the show: "This is the Mormon culture. Mormons are crazy."
I do give people the benefit of a doubt, that they will understand that this is not the LDS lifestyle, this is not how things are out in Utah. But for someone who only has heard the stereotypes of the culture, this is going to reinforce them.
I conceed, though, that people do practice polygamy in Utah. I understand that those people must have lives, and if I were to try to portray them, would I do it any differently? Do they live any differently than what was shown?
I never met anyone who practiced it. I never knew anyone who met anyone who practiced it.
There are tons of shows out there where groups claim they are reinforcing negative or untrue stereotypes. This is going to be one of them, and the first I know of that centers around the area and culture I am familiar with.
The only part in the show where the LDS church is represented is the interaction between the daughter and the other girl at the resteraunt, pretty much pointing out that "the family" is not going to church. But they have it done by a socially awkward 16+ year old girl.
And then we have a guy who marries a 15 year old, inviting the main dude to go to church with him, and calls other people in that crazy psycho town (which REALLY was a negative part), Brother and Sister, who, coincidently is muscling money out of the main guy.
The show is trying (and not really suceeding) to appease the church's side.
All I really want is for people to understand that this is not an accurate depiction of the Utah I know.
Sidenote: The scene with the girl in the resteraunt made me giggle. If you think about it, few people outside of the church have an idea what Miamaids and Laurels are.
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"I would think that being in the spotlight would make more people want to learn more about Mormons and from that you'd get the people who don't believe as well as the people who want to convert."
Funny, I did not hear Mormon or Latter Day Saint mentioned once.
I liked the show, and will probably watch again.
I did feel uncomfortable, but not because of the sex. It was more, as The Pixiest said, about their general situation. I think I was supposed to feel uncomfortable in that way.
Once the show gets going, I think it will be a lot more just about people who are crazy and greedy and evil, like The Sopranos is about people who are sociopathic. Well, that's not a very good analogy. What I mean is, as the plot thickens, I believe we will care less about the family being Mormon, and more about the general intrigue of the show.
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Oh, Amanecer, I did not mean that the way it seems you think I meant it. I just did not hear any mention of religion at all. I have heard nothing about the show, and have read no articles.
(now remembering the restaurant scene T mentioned.)
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I didn't watch this because I agree with most of what was written in the article. I think that it's purposely invoking and sensationalizing a stereotype (and an incorrect one at that) for the sake of entertainment.
It's like why I hate Will and Grace. Specifically, I hate Grace. She's what many people think Jewish women are like - loud, neurotic, vulgar. The only time she's gone to shul (that I saw) is for her wedding (to a doctor, of course ). I am nothing like her, and neither are almost all of the other Jewish women I know.
Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
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I haven't seen the show, and probably won't until it comes out on DVD. The worries expressed by Aaron Johnston are definitely real, but I have no way of knowing how much of an effect the show will have until I see it. My general opinion is that those who will walk away from the show with a more negative opinion of Mormons fit into 2 groups:
1. The ignorant(notice I didn't say stupid.) I meet people every day who really don't know squat about Mormons. If they see a show in which religious people in Utah with multiple wives are featured, 9 times out of 10 they'll assume they're Mormons. Maybe a little wacko, but Mormons nonetheless. The disclaimer does little to remedy this, since it only mentions that the church "officially" banned the practice, which opens the door to the possibility that it is still allowed in a more clandestine sense. I honestly don't think this was the producer's intent, but the statement can--and will--be read that way by some.
2. Those who already have an negative view of Mormons. There is little the church can do to convince these people of anything they refuse to be convinced of, so why worry about it?
I also agree that the Mountain Meadows movie has much more potential to do PR damage, so might I suggest to any Mormons who are reading this that they might want to brush up on their knowledge of the massacre? It is a blight on the LDS Chuch's history, but isn't, as some have suggested, an indication that religious people are by nature violent fundamentalists--see Krakhaur.
As for Dan Brown's novels, I liked both Angels and Demons and The Da Vinci Code, if only for their readability, but I can't help but think that many of his readers don't realize that it's FICTION, not history. Of course, Brown himself doesn't do much to encourage them to make the distinction.
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quote:It's like why I hate Will and Grace. Specifically, I hate Grace. She's what many people think Jewish women are like - loud, neurotic, vulgar.
I used to watch Will and Grace -- I'm sure I saw at least one whole season -- and I had no idea she was supposed to be Jewish.
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quote:Originally posted by Elizabeth: Funny, I did not hear Mormon or Latter Day Saint mentioned once.
They never mentioned it, but the allusions were certainly clear, particularly in the restaurant scene. Also, if you have ever travelled in Utah, the scenery on the way to the compound was unmistakable. I did not notice if the SUV had Utah plates.
My concerns about the show are the same as others above, namely that the writers gave us no time to get to know the characters before the conflicts start. Even Desperate Housewives gave introductions to the major characters (shallow as they are)
There was also a lot of emphasis on sex as if that was potentially the only benefit of a polygamous marriage for the man. I don't condone such arrangements, but it seems to me that a man and woman (women?) get married for love and I did not see a lot of that on the show. The only indication that he might love his wives was at the opening of the new store, but then they went right back to sex with the viagra humor.
All in all I'm not sure I'll keep watching for the whole season, but I'll give it a couple of more weeks to see if the story is really worth the time.
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"They never mentioned it, but the allusions were certainly clear, particularly in the restaurant scene."
Maybe to you? I did not see any clear evidence of their religion. I know what I know about Mormons from reading threads here, really. I do know the stereotype of polygamy connected with the religion, but I know it is no longer the way it is.
So, as I watched, I was thinking that it was more of a community that was separate from society at large, not necessarily Mormon, but definitely strict in whatever code they lived by.
As I said, I read/knew nothing about this show except for watching a preview. I did not come out of the first watching knowing or assuming anything about Mormons.
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dkw and mrs M, I also watched Will and Grace for a few seasons and didn't know until she met that doctor Leo guy that she was jewish.
Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
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quote:And then we have a guy who marries a 15 year old, inviting the main dude to go to church with him, and calls other people in that crazy psycho town (which REALLY was a negative part), Brother and Sister, who, coincidently is muscling money out of the main guy.
So is this an FLDS town? That makes sense, for some reason I thought it wasn't.
quote: If they see a show in which religious people in Utah with multiple wives are featured, 9 times out of 10 they'll assume they're Mormons.
Your concern seems to be that the broach the subject of Fundamentalist Mormons at all. Fundamentalist Mormonism is a subject that many people find interesting, myself included, simply because it's such a radically different life style from the norm. It's the same motivation that led me to be a tourist in Amish Country. It's just so different! I can understand your concerns, but it seems a little egocentric to not want a subject to be explored just because people might get it confused with something that is precious to you.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
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I watched half the show last night before I fell asleep. I will watch the other half tonight.
I think there is going to be some serious intrigue as time goes by.
Honest to goodness, I did not see anything negative towards the Mormons in the show by the way their lifestyle is presented. In fact, I still can't really tell what, if any, religion they are. They are, however, showing the negative feelings of some of the members of the larger community.
The mother(Bill's) is a frightening freak. The dad seems to be right up there with her. The Harry Dean Stanton character is increasingly scary.
I like it. I'm hooked.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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I'm liking it more and more. I think the first episode was simply an opening flurry to set the mood. Now it's calmed down and we're onto the business of life and getting poisoned by one's religious leaders.
Bill mentions at one point that one of his wives "misses LDS" so it's implied that she, at least, was once mormon but left when the polygamy started.
I found it interesting that they implied that the women in the other polygamous marriage were bisexual...
However, I still do not get the idea that it is getting down to the business of religious leaders' poisoning. I get that this one particular leader is really messed up and evil, that they are trying to break away, and that he has mafia-like hooks in them.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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I did not like last night's show at all. (nothing to do with LDS, though I thought it was sort of corny when the psycho-mafia dad-Harry Dean Stanton-was doing the interview with the news, giving the tour of the museum, and showing all the LDS history. It just seemed to obvious to me as an audience-teaching tool. But I digress)
I did not believe some things.
I did not believe the whole birthday party scenario with Nickie. I did not believe that no one in the family would sing a song to a little boy, and leave her singing alone and looking like an idiot. I do not believe that they really love her, because she is a witch. I do not believe in Margie's young-and-stupid character, or that Bill would have accepted her as third wife.
So, if there is another show like last night, I might end my watching of it.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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quote:Okay, I'll admit it. I loved The Da Vinci Code. And I loved Angels and Demons too. In my opinion, Dan Brown deserves every buck he's made. He's an incredible author. And good authors deserve to be read.
Here is what I don't understand. I thought The Da Vinci Xode was juvenile. Dan Brown deserves every penny he has made, but I don't think that it means that he is a great author or that those were great books. The characters were caricatures, shallow and uninteresting. The characters had the appearance of depth because Brown kept a tight lid on all of the information concerning them, and then doled out the information to maintain the appearance of depth.
The prose was quick, which isn't itself a sin, but the book was written in such a way that one would believe that the movie came first.
I'm happy that people are reading the book, or any book, but I get confused when people call The Da Vinci Code a great book or Dan Brown a great author.
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Disclaimer: I haven't seen any episodes- no HBO and my parents, who get 500 channels somehow also don't get HBO and thus can't TiVo it for me.
I've been pretty interested in this because the actresses who play two of my favorite characters from Veronica Mars have reoccurring roles. So I've been reading lots of articles on it, and episode recaps and stuff.
I've gotten the impression that a major theme is going to be the conflict between this family and the Mormon culture. For example, the oldest daughter befriends the Mormon daughter of a sheriff and the two girls have to deal with the fact that what her family is doing is both illegal and against Church law (I'm not sure law is the right word). So I actually think this show could be good for Mormons. From personal experience, the first thing that comes to most people's minds when you say "Mormon" is "polygamy". I've lost track of the number of times I've had to explain that polygamy is not allowed in the Mormon church. So with the conflict between the family and the church this show might actually help seperate the two in the mind of the general public.
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quote:It's like why I hate Will and Grace. Specifically, I hate Grace. She's what many people think Jewish women are like - loud, neurotic, vulgar.
I used to watch Will and Grace -- I'm sure I saw at least one whole season -- and I had no idea she was supposed to be Jewish.
The only time they mentioned it was to have her make fun of some negative stereotype she was exhibiting.
There's no indication that her being Jewish caused her to actually do anything or affected her life in any way.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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blackwolve, What I know of Mormon culture is from Hatrack. I think the Harry Dean Stanton character is considered(by himself) as a "pure Mormon." That is the impression I got from the last show.
I am still really confused about who is or was LDS in the show. I think I am supposed to be, though.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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Liz, none of the main characters with the exception of the eldest boys friend, and the eldest girls friend, are members of the LDS church. Everyone else is in a kind of reformed LDS church, that broke off of the mainstream one in 1890's. From what I can tell, Barb used to be LDS, but could be wrong. So the two religions are very similar in how they go about daily life and how they pray, and especially how they conduct church with sacrament meeting and preisthood and such. But they are not part of the mainstream church.
But even then, go to some of the fan sits for Big Love and you'll see just how much people associate mormons to polygamy and how confused they are.
Posts: 9754 | Registered: Jul 2002
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T, can you give me an analogy with other religions? (I am so confused) Is the LDS/broken-off church like Catholics/Protestants, like Sunni/Shiite, like Orthodox/Reformed in Judaism?
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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There have been different groups who have broken off of the LDS church. Reformed LDS, Fundamentalist LDS and such. In this case, the prophet at the time revealed "hey, no polygamy" and those who didn't agree with it considered him not to be the true prophet, and broke off. So they still believe in the Book of Mormon, and the revealations of Joseph Smith, they just don't believe that the leader of the LDS church (from the 1890's and so on) is a true prophet.
Posts: 9754 | Registered: Jul 2002
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But even then, go to some of the fan sits for Big Love and you'll see just how much people associate mormons to polygamy and how confused they are.
In my experience most people in the US make that association. You assume that Big Love caused that association, I'm saying the association was already there and Big Love is taking steps towards correcting it. Now people are posting on these forums, and their incorrect assumptions are being corrected. I think that's a good thing.
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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Well, I think T was making the same point, actually, just saying how many people have that assumption.
OK, can someone point me to a good, concise, site which explains the LDS religion? (or link to a good thread here)
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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I dled that show today. It was interesting, but they don't seem to know much about Mormons. But then again, neither do I outside of reading OSC and Saints and the Mormon.org website.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Well, I think they know a lot about Mormons, but the family, as I see it, is trying to break out of FLDS? Fundamentalist LDS?
Instead of portraying Mormons as polygamists, I think the show is portraying them, instead, as almost persecuting them. The Mormons in the show seem to be people to hide from, for this polygamist family.
I watched an Anderson Goober special on Warren Jeffs. Could this show be based on his story? He seems an awful lot like the Harry Dean Stanton character.
I like how this family lives. I like how they work together. I like this show. I could never live that way, but I can see how it would work for some people.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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lso, the boys who left the Jeffs compound are referred to as "The Lost Boys." Is this a Card reference? I have not read that novel, and I wondered.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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I really like the show, but I could do with less of Bill Paxton's butt. It's cute and all but just a little less please. Posts: 601 | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Elizabeth: OK, the first thing I learned is that Mormons have really white teeth!
*sigh*
I'm such a bad Mormon.
ETA: Elizabeth, I really doubt it's a reference to OSC's The Lost Boys. His lost boys are in North Carolina and they're not Mormon. (Well, the main character's family is, but the lost boys are not.) I don't see how it could be related at all.
Posts: 1522 | Registered: Nov 2005
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So I'm the only Mormon here at work, and I had a co-worker tape me some episodes because I was kind of curious and had gotten some questions about it. My thoughts on the show can be summed up in one word: meh.
It wasn't a bad show, and I could see how someone unfamiliar with Utah and Mormon culture could enjoy it, but to me it was just, off. Not offensive, (at least the episodes I saw) just not quite right. It's like they hired somebody who said "oh, I know all about Mormons and polygamy, I'll make sure you include all the appropriate references so everyone watching will think that this how Mormons and Polygamists actually act and talk." The dialogue and references felt forced and out of context (when addressing specific Mormon/fundamental themes).
Posts: 194 | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by dawnmaria: I really like the show, but I could do with less of Bill Paxton's butt. It's cute and all but just a little less please.
I know, what is up with that? Did he just join a gym or something?
Posts: 51 | Registered: May 2006
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I kind of like the show, but I cannot understand why he has to have those extra ditzy wives, like the one with the credit card addition and the one that is just young and ditzy. He always had a cool first wife and should have just stuck with her because she's very smart and pretty and he obviously adores her, but perhaps it's a fundamentalist sort of thing....
Those folks are a bit scary though. I wonder if the people on this show are supposed to be related to those scary fundelmentalists that send boys off away from them when they hit adolescence so old me and can all the girls. Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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