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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Tracking the Video Game Wars (PS3 vs Wii vs Xbox360) (Page 3)

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Author Topic: Tracking the Video Game Wars (PS3 vs Wii vs Xbox360)
BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by FlyingCow:
I would have no problem buying a Wii if all I ever get in support of it is:

A couple Zelda titles
Metroid
Some sort of Mario Kart-ish game
Wario Ware
Mario Party
Castlevania (fingers crossed)

maybe so for you but the big N won't get very far in the console wars that way. they have a chance to gains a huge foothold in the market this cycle, if they fail to capitalize on this opportunity i fear they will play a role similar to modern day sega. man typing on the wii is tough. forget proof reading!
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Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged
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I can't see that happening as long as they continue have runaway success in the handheld market. Besides the Wii is already profitable for Nintendo.
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FlyingCow
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So, are there any updated numbers on sales? When would we have to wait until to get a good estimate - end of the quarter?
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Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged
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US sales figures come out monthly while Japanese sales numbers are weekly.
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twinky
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quote:
Originally posted by FlyingCow:
So, are there any updated numbers on sales? When would we have to wait until to get a good estimate - end of the quarter?

I posted December 2006 sales figures for the U.S. at the bottom of page two:

quote:
Originally posted by twinky:
NPD has released the official December 2006 sales figures for North America.

PS2 -- 1.4 million
Xbox 360 -- 1.1 million
Wii -- 604,200
PS3 -- 490,700

DS -- 1.6 million
PSP -- 953,200
GBA -- 850,700

Wireless 360 controller -- 823,800
Wiimote -- 646,700
Nunchuck -- 497,100
Sixaxis -- 336,000


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FlyingCow
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I was wondering more about total sales, not just a monthly figure. Specifically, how many of each console has been sold to date.

Is such information available, or only released at certain times, or require a special effort to add together each month's figures?

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Fitz
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The Wii doesn't really have a stellar lineup of new games for 2007. I'm worried that they'll follow the same pattern that they did with the Gamecube, where the great titles come few and far between. 2007 will see a new Metroid, and a new Mario, but gamers will definitely want more. That being said, I think the Wii has a huge advantage over the GC, and that's the wiimote. Developers are going to want to make games that utilize its functionality in new and interesting ways.

One cool example of what a developer is doing with the Wii is a game called The Sadness. No menus, and an autosave that is invisible to the player. Sounds great.

Multiplayer is a blast on the Wii. I was recently playing Warioware with a friend, and I was transported back to my youth. I don't remember the last time I had that much fun playing a game. This from a game with graphics that could be described as decent at best, and consists almost entirely of minigames that are only a few seconds long. After one minigame in particular I was laughing so hard I nearly choked.

It made me think about the difference in gameplay between systems. Multiplayer on the 360 and PS3 is largely competitive, to the point where you get these videos with crazy people screaming profanities at their TVs. But the 360 and the PS3 have incredible graphics and fantastic games, and despite the competitive, often childish nature of multiplayer, I very much enjoy my 360. Plus Nintendo isn't alone in providing innovative, enjoyable family games. For example, Viva Pinata on the 360, a game in which you grow a garden and attempt to attract the various pinatas of Pinata Island to visit and take residence.

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twinky
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quote:
Originally posted by FlyingCow:
I was wondering more about total sales, not just a monthly figure. Specifically, how many of each console has been sold to date.

Is such information available, or only released at certain times, or require a special effort to add together each month's figures?

There's VGCharts, which is the best single source for cumulative figures I know of.

A caveat: when looking at companies' own announcements of shipments or sales, pay close attention to what they actually mean by "shipped." Some consider "shipped" to be "arrived at distribution warehouse" (Sony, IIRC), while others consider it to be "left distribution warehouse for retailer" (MS, IIRC).

Added: I own Viva Pinata. It's fun. I wouldn't say I love it, but it's definitely an interesting game.

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FlyingCow
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Viva Pinata has the most annoying website ever. Ever, I tell you.

Is it so much to ask for whip games for the Wii? Castlevania, Indiana Jones... hey, even a StarTropics redux...

I'll probably get one as soon as my bank account gets over the pain I just inflicted by paying off the full principal on my car's financing.

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erosomniac
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quote:
hey, even a StarTropics redux...
I would be willing to pay up to and including $500 for this game alone.

Seriously. I love Star Tropics.

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Blayne Bradley
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interesting, Wii is outseling PS3 but only by 16%, if th PS3 can keep up the rate of sales itll accelerate the moment the uber PS3 games arrive.

*heads off to do 5 pushups...

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FlyingCow
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The thing is, PS3 shouldn't be competing with Wii.

It's like saying Ferrari is competing with the Cooper Mini.

PS3 makes games that are in direct competition with XBox 360 - the goal being high end performance. Wii makes games that are not in competition with either system, but are trying to carve a separate niche in their own right - the goal being family fun.

They don't really sell to the same audiences, so there isn't really direct competition. As an example, I have no interest in buying a PS3 or an XBox 360 - they hold no interest - but a Wii might get me to open my wallet. I'd never have to choose between a PS3 and Wii, simply because I wouldn't be interested in the PS3 in the first place. They're targeting two different markets, while Sony and Microsoft are targeting the same market.

The fact that a niche market system like the Wii is outselling a power machine like the PS3 is sort of telling, though.

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twinky
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
interesting, Wii is outseling PS3 but only by 16%

Eh? That seemed incongruous to me, so I took the liberty of totalling the U.S. and Japanese PS3 and Wii sales for November and December 2006, by way of VGCharts.

PS3: 1,145,258
Wii: 1,999,843


That's a lot more than 16%, Blayne. Unlike FC, I absolutely think the Wii and PS3 should be compared: the Wii is demolishing the PS3. It isn't even clear that the PS3 is supply-constrained, whereas Wiis are still difficult to find.

FC, I think the Wii is selling to a superset of the PS3 and Xbox 360 target markets. I don't think it's a niche system at all; I think they're following the example of the DS and trying to appeal to a broader market, not a niche market. They're trying to appeal to more market segments than either Sony or Microsoft, which, combined with their lower pricing, is in my opinion the reason they're selling so many more units worldwide.

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Blayne Bradley
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the quoted figures about 5 posts up put the difference of aout 100,000 units.
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twinky
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
the quoted figures about 5 posts up put the difference of aout 100,000 units.

That's December figures for the U.S. only, as I noted both when I posted it and when I quoted it.
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FlyingCow
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Niche is the wrong word.

They're not in direct competition, though, I don't think. PS3 and XBox 360 are power systems, using high end graphics and processing speed, trying to lure customers by dint of their technological superiority. They are focusing on people who value the same things - high end performance. If you want the next iteration of FPS games, those systems are your bread and butter.

The Wii isn't shooting for that market. They aren't competing in the performance console arena. They're appealing to the kid inside their customers (and to their customer's kids). They're hanging their hat on the "fun factor" and playability - they're almost like the iMac of the console world.

Wii will pull a lot of people out of the woodwork who would never have bought a power gaming console (like me), while PS3 has to fight the XBox 360 for their share of customers who value high performance.

So, I guess the PS3 and Xbox 360 are in more of a niche than the Wii, looking at it that way.

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twinky
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quote:
Originally posted by FlyingCow:
The Wii isn't shooting for that market.

I think it is. Nintendo wants you to buy a Wii, yes, but they also want me to buy one. [Smile]

Added: Consider Twilight Princess and the forthcoming Metroid Prime 3, both extremely appealing to traditional "hardcore gamers."

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Bokonon
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BTW, I read that MP3 will still have lots puzzle-related play (don't know what that means, having never played the new Metroids), not just enemy-blasting, twinky [Smile]

As for 2007. here are the games I'm interested in:

Super Mario Galaxy
No More Heroes
Super Smash Brothers Brawl
Sadness (might be 2008 though)
FIFA (it better come out)
Rabbids Redux (I loves me the loony lagamorphs!)
Plus VC games... And the new downloadable games that'll be coming Any Day Now(tm)

That's more than I have time for, honestly.

-Bok

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twinky
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quote:
Originally posted by Bokonon:
BTW, I read that MP3 will still have lots puzzle-related play (don't know what that means, having never played the new Metroids), not just enemy-blasting, twinky [Smile]

Excellent.

The first two Metroid Prime titles were rife with 3D environmental puzzles. The morph ball puzzles were among my favourites. [Big Grin]

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FlyingCow
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quote:
Nintendo wants you to buy a Wii, yes, but they also want me to buy one
But I don't think they're really trying to get you to buy one instead of one of the other consoles. They've priced it low enough that it could be an affordable second console.

[Edit: I think I phrased that badly, again. I think they're trying hard to get the people who don't stylize themselves as "gamers". They're also trying to get the younger audience, and the parent audience. They're trying for the disillusioned gamer, too. As for the "hardcore gamer" group - I think they'd be happy to be a 2nd console.]

I sort of see it the way Macs hit the market about 5-10 years ago. Instead of advertising power, they advertised ease of use. Instead of going for the gaming market, they went for the design market.

Wii is doing similar. They may not put out a game to compete with God of War 2, but XBox 360 doesn't really have an answer for Wario Ware.

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Bokonon
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Oh, I forgot to add SSX Blur.

-Bok

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twinky
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quote:
Originally posted by FlyingCow:
[Edit: I think I phrased that badly, again. I think they're trying hard to get the people who don't stylize themselves as "gamers". They're also trying to get the younger audience, and the parent audience. They're trying for the disillusioned gamer, too. As for the "hardcore gamer" group - I think they'd be happy to be a 2nd console.]

I guess I don't understand the difference between your position and mine, then. I never said that Nintendo wants me to buy a Wii instead of a PS3 -- I'm sure they don't care whether I buy a PS3 or not. They do, however, want me to buy a Wii. The people you're talking about don't care about Zelda or Metroid; their system-sellers are games like Wii Sports and Wario Ware. But you don't see Nintendo ceasing production on Zelda and Metroid games; indeed, Nintendo has SquareEnix working on a Wii-exclusive Final Fantasy title, and the Wii, while not high definition-capable, does at least support 480p widescreen. They're going after a broader market, yes -- that's exactly what I've been asserting -- but to suggest that they don't particularly care about the hardcore gamers is, I think, a mistake. They do, but hardcore gamers are only a subset of the audience they're after. [Added: That is, the Wii doesn't cater to hardcore gamers, but it courts the broader market much more aggressively than either Microsoft or Sony. However, Sony and Microsoft aren't ignoring the broader market either; look no further than the Xbox Live Arcade and the PlayStation Network.]

It's exactly the strategy they used with the DS. Advance Wars, Metroid Prime: Hunters, Final Fantasy VI... and Nintendogs, Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney, Brain Age. I bought a DS for my mother, and she loves it, but I've also got half an eye on the system as well.

Added 2: IIRC, Nintendo are even on record saying that if the DS had been a failure in the face of the PSP, they would essentially have gone back to the drawing board on the Wii.

Added 3: There's one other reason I don't think Nintendo is ignorning the hardcore market -- that market arguably bought 150 million consoles in the last hardware generation.

[ January 25, 2007, 07:10 PM: Message edited by: twinky ]

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Samprimary
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Ace Attorney!?!?
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pfresh85
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Not quite a sales figure, but: "Nintendo was happy to report that it met its target of 4 million Wii consoles manufactured by the end of 2006, 3.19 million of which were delivered to distributors and retail customers around the world. "

Source - wii.ign.com

Also if the Wii got a Phoenix Wright game, I'd be happy. I spent almost an entire day just playing with the site Samprimary posted, sending people random objections.

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Flaming Toad on a Stick
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If Wii got Golden Sun 3, I'd be very happy.
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FlyingCow
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I don't think they're really ignoring hardcore gamers - and I agree that they are going for a wider market.

It's sort of like a Venn Diagram - Sony and Microsoft are targeting the same bubble of people, while Nintendo is going for a far larger bubble that includes Sony/MS's bubble.

So, while Sony/Microsoft war for who can make the higher performance machine, Nintendo has stepped back and decided they don't share the same goals. Why go for hardware supremacy when you can go for fun supremacy?

quote:
That is, the Wii doesn't cater to hardcore gamers, but it courts the broader market much more aggressively than either Microsoft or Sony. However, Sony and Microsoft aren't ignoring the broader market either; look no further than the Xbox Live Arcade and the PlayStation Network.
Exactly. Wii's focus is not on the hardcore gamers - it's willing to come in second or third in that race. It's looking to conquer the non-hardcore market, while Sony/Microsoft are willing to settle for second or third there (so long as they can be #1 in the hardcore market).

The thing is, two companies can't be number one in the hardcore market - one of those two are going to lose that battle. Nintendo isn't as concerned about winning that battle, I don't think (in fact, I think they've already conceded the #1 spot), which is why I don't put them in such direct competition with the other two systems.

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Omega M.
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quote:
Originally posted by Hitoshi:

Without Sega and Sony constantly fighting Nintendo for marketshare, there's no indication when games would've moved into 3D, invented analog control, and then further added motion sensing control.

I understand what you're saying, but the dominance of 3D games is why I haven't wanted a console from the Nintendo 64 generation onward. 3D games are too hard for me to control and too easy for me to get lost in. Thankfully the DS (which I have) hasn't gone all-3D yet.
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twinky
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quote:
It's sort of like a Venn Diagram - Sony and Microsoft are targeting the same bubble of people, while Nintendo is going for a far larger bubble that includes Sony/MS's bubble.
That's exactly what I've been saying right from my first response to you, only I used the word "superset."

quote:
Why go for hardware supremacy when you can go for fun supremacy?
This I disagree with. I think it's another example of the false "graphics/gameplay" dichotomy -- there's no reason you can't have both. Nintendo could certainly have designed powerful hardware to accompany their new control scheme, but they didn't; the Wii hardware is an extension of the GameCube hardware. Nintendo didn't make that choice in the interests of fun, they did that in the interests of large stacks of money*. The Wii was the only console that launched at a profit in this hardware generation, and their lower pricing certainly didn't hurt their sales.

Again, it's the same strategy as the DS: lower cost, intuitive control scheme, and enough variety in the library to make both traditional gamers and non-gamers take note. There lies the road to large stacks of money.

quote:
Wii's focus is not on the hardcore gamers - it's willing to come in second or third in that race. It's looking to conquer the non-hardcore market, while Sony/Microsoft are willing to settle for second or third there (so long as they can be #1 in the hardcore market).
I think it's a mistake to characterize them as separate races. All three companies have exactly the same goal: profit. All three want to maximize sales of their hardware and software. They're simply pursuing that goal in different ways -- it's a question of emphasis, of degrees, rather than one of strict segmentation.

I wouldn't characterize the GBA, DS and PSP as being in separate races either.

In some respects, this is a semantic disagreement, but don't think it's a good idea to pretend that the Wii exists in a vacuum, independent of the other two consoles. Only a fraction of the total set of potential console-buyers are willing to buy more than one, which means that many sales of Wiis or Xbox 360s come at the expense of the other console. They're very much in direct competition.

---------

Here's an amusing tidbit I just came across:

Apparently a Sony ad for the next Gran Turismo game went live with screenshots from Project Gotham Racing 3, an Xbox 360 launch title. Whoops.

-----

Added:

quote:
Originally posted by Omega M.:
quote:
Originally posted by Hitoshi:

Without Sega and Sony constantly fighting Nintendo for marketshare, there's no indication when games would've moved into 3D, invented analog control, and then further added motion sensing control.

I understand what you're saying, but the dominance of 3D games is why I haven't wanted a console from the Nintendo 64 generation onward. 3D games are too hard for me to control and too easy for me to get lost in. Thankfully the DS (which I have) hasn't gone all-3D yet.
That's interesting, I'm exactly the opposite. I couldn't play NES or SNES-era games, there was just some kind of fundamental disconnect between my brain and those 2D, side-scrolling worlds. I stink at those games without exception. Once they made the transition to 3D, I got interested, and now own three consoles (GC, PS2, Xbox 360).

--------

*Compare the Wii Virtual Console pricing to the pricing of PS1 games on Sony's PlayStation Network Platform, for example. You can get a PS1 game via PNP for the price of a SNES game on the VC; that difference is pure profit for Nintendo.

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FlyingCow
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I think we agree on most things, twinky, but are just using different words.

One thing, though:

quote:
This I disagree with. I think it's another example of the false "graphics/gameplay" dichotomy -- there's no reason you can't have both. Nintendo could certainly have designed powerful hardware to accompany their new control scheme, but they didn't; the Wii hardware is an extension of the GameCube hardware. Nintendo didn't make that choice in the interests of fun, they did that in the interests of large stacks of money*. (emphasis added
You're right, they didn't focus on that. It was a marketing choice not to try to fight on that front. Their marketing hasn't been "look how fast we can go" but "look how much fun we can be". They're selling their machine on the idea that it's new, different, fun, and interesting. They're not banking on the "we're more hardcore than the other guys" strategy (which PS3 and XBox are already slugging away at).

It's sort of like cars. All car companies are trying to make money - but the VW Bug isn't trying to make it using the same marketing strategy as the Ferrari. While you could technically say those two cars are in competition (in the car customer market), I wouldn't really say they are in direct competition for the same customers.

quote:
think it's a mistake to characterize them as separate races. All three companies have exactly the same goal: profit.
Exactly. But that doesn't mean they are in direct competition. There's plenty of profit to be had in the gaming market. Warhammer isn't xactly in direct competition with Dungeons and Dragons, for instance, though there is some overlap. While D&D does do a decent miniature trade, it's not their primary focus - whereas for Warhammer, miniatures are their primary moneymaker.

Nintendo is shooting for a slightly different aspect of the gamer market than Sony/MicroSoft, and their advertising reflects that. While Nintendo mostly shows actual people playing the games (emphasis on the fun they are having), the other systems mostly show the games themselves (emphasis on graphics and performance).

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BlackBlade
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The Wii marketing campaign is sheer genius. I play games with my brother that are fun and addicting and it makes me nostalgic for the games we played as boys. Oh look! Nintendo is slowing releasing its entire library online for download onto the Wii.

We are downloading games at the rate of about 1 game a week. Its a blast playing Golden Axe again, and still completely rocking it old school.

Edit: IGN summed it up pretty cleverly,

"It seems like all is well in the Mushroom Kingdom; profits are most definitely not in another castle."

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twinky
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quote:
Originally posted by FlyingCow:
I think we agree on most things, twinky, but are just using different words.

That's largely true. A lot of my points are minor with respect to the overall subject. Still, I enjoy talking about this stuff. [Smile]

(Caveat: I'm about to go away for the weekend.)

quote:
Originally posted by FlyingCow:
You're right, they didn't focus on that. It was a marketing choice not to try to fight on that front.

What I'm saying is that it was a design choice, and that the design choice was made first; it made the marketing choice you describe a no-brainer. I think the design choice was made to keep R&D and production costs down -- that is, in the interests of profitability.

quote:
Originally posted by FlyingCow:
It's sort of like cars. All car companies are trying to make money - but the VW Bug isn't trying to make it using the same marketing strategy as the Ferrari. While you could technically say those two cars are in competition (in the car customer market), I wouldn't really say they are in direct competition for the same customers.

Your analogy holds in terms of what's under the proverbial hood, but the price differential between the Bug and the Ferrari is much more dramatic in real terms than the price differential between the Wii and even the PS3, to a degree that the Ferrari simply cannot be purchased by your average VW Bug purchaser. Given how well extra Wiimotes and nunchucks are selling, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that the average Wii purchaser could, if they wanted, buy a PS3 and even the attendant HDTV. I do think cost is a factor, and a significant one -- I think the PS3's cost is turning a lot of people off, but I don't think that means they literally can't afford to buy it. I think it means they just don't want to spend that much on a game console. As the sales figures I've been posting show, the truly cost-conscious and/or cost-constrained consumers are actually still buying PS2s and GBAs.

quote:
Originally posted by FlyingCow:
Exactly. But that doesn't mean they are in direct competition. There's plenty of profit to be had in the gaming market. Warhammer isn't xactly in direct competition with Dungeons and Dragons, for instance, though there is some overlap. While D&D does do a decent miniature trade, it's not their primary focus - whereas for Warhammer, miniatures are their primary moneymaker.

A gamer on a limited budget is going to buy one or the other, though, right? That's what I'm getting at -- the Wii's lower cost helps it, because most people who would consider buying a console (and especially ones who never would have considered it before the Wii) would never imagine buying more than one within a single hardware generation. Nintendo's hoping that increased appeal to "everyone else" will offset slightly decreased appeal to traditional gamers. It worked with the DS, and I bet it'll work with the Wii, too. On that, though, we seem to agree. [Smile]

quote:
Nintendo is shooting for a slightly different aspect of the gamer market than Sony/MicroSoft, and their advertising reflects that. While Nintendo mostly shows actual people playing the games (emphasis on the fun they are having), the other systems mostly show the games themselves (emphasis on graphics and performance).
That's true... but wait for the Metroid Prime 3 ads. [Wink]
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FlyingCow
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quote:
A gamer on a limited budget is going to buy one or the other, though, right?
The Wii's lower cost helps, but a Halo-head ain't gonna buy a Wii because it's cheaper. And someone who's all about EA Sports games isn't going to buy a Wii, either - regardless of price.

quote:
What I'm saying is that it was a design choice, and that the design choice was made first; it made the marketing choice you describe a no-brainer.
You're right, it was a design choice. The Nintendo developers chose not to try to compete in terms of cutting edge graphics/memory/high-performance hardware. They went for playability.

By comparison, VW can make a high performance driving machine. But, with the Bug, they wanted something that was more cost-effective, mass market consumable, and fun (punctuated with a flower holder).

Personally, I think the crowd that buys Bugs and Mini Coopers are the crowd that buys Wii's. Of course I have nothing to back that up - it just seems like the Wii's image/style fits that culture. I'd throw people who bought an iMac when they came out into that group as well.

Actually, the iMac is a good parallel example. When they debuted, the "serious hardcore gamer" wouldn't really think to touch them. They couldn't run the games they wanted to play and didn't have the capability to really perform at the high end of game play. Serious gamers bought PCs.

Now, Wii has more gamer appeal than the old iMacs, but "hardcore gamers" have either been loving their 360 or jonesin' for their PS3 for months... most weren't up at night checking for updates to the Wii release date.

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pfresh85
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quote:
Originally posted by twinky:
That's true... but wait for the Metroid Prime 3 ads. [Wink]

Actually, I saw one of the "We would like to play ads" did have Metroid Prime 3 footage in it. Clearly the game has no release date yet and they aren't really advertising it, but I think they could easily use a similar style of ads for the final advertising campaign.
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twinky
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Just a couple of quick things:

quote:
Originally posted by FlyingCow:
[QUOTE]And someone who's all about EA Sports games isn't going to buy a Wii, either - regardless of price.

I think you're wrong about that. I think a lot of people are waiting for Wii versions of EA sports games -- Madden and Tiger Woods, in particular.

Hell, I'm waiting for the latter myself.

quote:
Now, Wii has more gamer appeal than the old iMacs, but "hardcore gamers" have either been loving their 360 or jonesin' for their PS3 for months... most weren't up at night checking for updates to the Wii release date.
Everything I saw in the Wii launch window points to you being wrong about this, too. I frequent multiple forums populated primarily by "hardcore gamers," and there was massive interest in the Wii, including lots of people camping out to get them, and lots of people who are still looking for one now. The Wii had huge buzz in the "hardcore" community.

I get what you're saying with the rest of the post, though.

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fugu13
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quote:
Now, Wii has more gamer appeal than the old iMacs, but "hardcore gamers" have either been loving their 360 or jonesin' for their PS3 for months... most weren't up at night checking for updates to the Wii release date.
Yeah, that explains the numerous sites dedicated to tracking Wii releases, and that for weeks after the release date there were lines outside the likely stores two or three times a week well before opening (night before on the weekend) with people looking for Wiis, but in all the lines I stood in not a single person was after a PS3 (and they were technically joint Wii/PS3 lines, according to the stores). The first few times, this befuddled the store employees, then they started assuming it -- "Nobody's here for a PS3, right?"
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FlyingCow
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Yeah, fugu, but people stand online for Tickle Me Elmo's, too. It's not just the "hardcore gamer" crowd that stands on line for new products.

Ask someone who's thinking about buying a PS3 or XBox 360 what makes that console the best, and you'll likely hear all kinds of specs. Processor speed, memory, etc, etc, etc. Ask someone who's buying a Wii what makes it the best console, and I don't think you'll hear the same rationale.

One of my favorite commentaries was the following, from Woot.com:

quote:
The SIXAXIS wireless controller is basically the same complicated gazillion-button-style controller you know from past PS models, but at least you wonít be fighting Grandma for gaming time. Along with the usual roster of ho-hum games, the PS3 can play CDs, DVDs, and Blu-Ray discs, and the 20GB hard drive can store music, videos, and music videos. Itís certainly, er, rather full-figured, for those of you who want a lot of heft for your money. And its HDMI capabilities give you polygons and frames-per-second out the wazoo, if you prefer that stuff to having fun.
Here is a breakdown of the specs of each console, and you can see that "high performance" was not the goal of the Wii design team. People who geek out over specs and find that the most important indicator in a game system are not the Wii target audience, obviously.
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Alucard...
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One thing worth considering is what you will be playing your next gen console on as far as TVs and monitors go...

With the Wii it doesn't really matter. The 360 supports full 1080, 720, and 480 lines of resolution. But regrettably, the PS3 only supports 1080 or 480: no 720. I believe this is a sad tactic by Sony to bolster its HDTV sales in an indirect way. I have an HDTV in my TV room but it is a projection TV and the clarity is lacking on console games. I bought a slick 42-inch Samsung plasma EDTV that is 720P, put it in my bedroom, and eventually hooked the 360 up on it. It is a shame that if I bought a PS3 I would be forced to hook it up to the projection TV or settle for non-enhanced graphics. BTW, we have a Wii too and it is the only console that gets our entire family playing video games together. THAT! is priceless! We usually play a round or two of bowling on Wii Sports and then challenge each other to Wii Fitness! Fun!!

But seriously, I found serious gaming to be a bit obtuse on the Wii and much prefer any serious gaming to be played on the 360. At this point I am not planning on picking up a PS3 for the above reasons and because of cost as well...

Good gaming to all and to all a good night!

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twinky
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I don't think that's quite right, Alucard -- the PS3 does support 720p. For example, Resistance: Fall of Man is 720p-native. The problem is that it seems as though either the PS3 doesn't have a hardware scaler (the Xbox 360 does) or there's some software reason why scaling is disabled. As a result, playing R:FoM on a display that supports only 1080i and 480p, like many CRT HDTVs, gives you a 480p signal because the PS3 won't upscale it to 1080i.

FlyingCow, I found that Woot writeup hilarious when it went up originally, but it puts forward exactly the same false dichotomy between graphics and gameplay that I mentioned earlier.

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Bokonon
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It isn't a false dichotomy, IMO. The cost to do both could have doomed the device

-Bok (from his Wii)

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Hitoshi
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I think fanboys (not calling anyone here that, mind) by and large are proving my hypothesis that everyone suffers from short-term memory loss. People point to the launch lineup of the PS3 and ask, "Where's the Next-Gen?" But what about the Playstation 2 launch? The 360 launch? The Gamecube's? Or the N64's two game launch?

People look at the PS3's graphics and seem to glee in saying they're not as good as promised, but forget that, if you take a picture of a PS2 launch game and a game later in the system's history, you'll see an incredible and stark contrast.

I'm just frustrated that people can't see beyond today, and forget yesterday. It's as if, because the Wii is selling well now, that automatically makes the PS3 a commercial flop, when the situation was the same during the time of the Gamecube's release, if I'm not mistaken. Or that, because of bad games now, there will be nothing but bad games for the next few years.

To me, I find both the PS3's and Wii's future lineups far too sparse, particularly the Wii's with Fils-Aime reassuring us we'd have plenty of hits to play, but the lineup through March and April having diddily. Since I own both, I want both to do well, and I hope Fils-Aime is right, but things don't seem to bode well...

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twinky
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quote:
Originally posted by Bokonon:
It isn't a false dichotomy, IMO. The cost to do both could have doomed the device

The cost to do both might have forced Nintendo to break with tradition and sell it as a loss leader like the other two console manufacturers. That isn't quite the same thing, and definitely doesn't imply that graphics and gameplay must each come at the other's expense.

There's also the implication that the Wii has some kind of monopoly on fun, which is just plain silly. Gears of War wouldn't have sold three million copies in ten weeks if it wasn't fun.

quote:
It's as if, because the Wii is selling well now, that automatically makes the PS3 a commercial flop, when the situation was the same during the time of the Gamecube's release, if I'm not mistaken.
You're mistaken. In America, the PS2 significantly outsold the GameCube in the month of the GameCube's launch, and continued to outsell it for the entire lifespan of both consoles. In Japan, the GameCube sold more in its launch week than the PS2, but by the second week GameCube sales had dropped off and it never caught up. (America, Japan; unfortunately VGCharts won't allow me to generate monthly date-aligned graphs for both regions, nor worldwide, but the graphs make the point all the same).

I think the reason the PS3 is regarded as being in trouble is that it's possible that Sony is actually meeting demand. eBay prices, in-store discounts, and general retail availability all point to this conclusion, though there's nothing definitive. Sony hasn't shipped all that many PS3s to retailers, in the grand scheme of things; if they haven't even sold all of the ones they've made this soon after the launch, it doesn't bode well for their prospects... especially given how difficult it still is to find a Wii, just like how difficult it was to find a PS2 this time in 2001 or an Xbox 360 this time last year. On the other hand, I know plenty of people who are waiting for the big exclusives (MGS4, FFXIII, etc), so I certainly wouldn't count Sony out.

As far as Q1 lineups for both consoles, I largely agree with you, though I think the shining standout coming down the pipe for the Wii is Tiger Woods. It has the potential to be outstanding.

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Enigmatic
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quote:
It's as if, because the Wii is selling well now, that automatically makes the PS3 a commercial flop,
While it's WAY to early to call the system itself a flop (it may very well take off when the big title games finally come out, or when they're able to lower the price) it seems pretty fair to say that the PS3 launch was a flop based on observations that have nothing to do with how well the Wii is selling. As I've said before, Sony had better hope that their long run strategy pays off here. Unfortunately, if their early sales are seen (in the industry, not by us) as disappointing, developers may jump ship, they may miss out on exclusives, so less people buy the system, so more developers leave, etc. It's this kind of snowball effect which really hurt the N64 and Gamecube.

quote:
To me, I find both the PS3's and Wii's future lineups far too sparse, particularly the Wii's with Fils-Aime reassuring us we'd have plenty of hits to play, but the lineup through March and April having diddily.
Seriously? Unless any of these have been pushed back:
3/8/07 - Mario Party 8 (I'm not big on these myself, but they seem to always do well.)
3/13/07 - Prince of Persia, Tiger Woods PGA 2007
4/1/07 - Super Mario Galaxy
(That's not all the games for march and april, just the ones that are, imho, likely to be "hits".)

Meanwhile, I've got 5 games (plus sports), haven't finished any of them yet, don't have time to play them all as much as I want to, and there's other games already out that I think look good. With the Gamecube lineup there were definitely long stretches between "must have" games, but right now I see no problem with playing the games already out until Prince of Persia and Mario Galaxy come out.

Added: I guess opinion of whether that's "sparse" or not depends in part on how much time and budget one has for gaming. For myself, one or two games worth buying in a month is plenty, especially considering I've play PC games too. If there's more than that, they'll probably be weekend rentals.

--Enigmatic

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Orincoro
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Oh, my roomate just bought a Wii. All we have right now are the port for Zelda and the sports game. I may have to resign on the lease so that I'll still be living with him when he gets super smash brothers. [Big Grin]
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twinky
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Oooo, I forgot about Prince of Persia.
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Samprimary
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quote:
or when they're able to lower the price
Or raise it
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TheTick
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Actually, Sony says they did not raise the price in Canada.
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Hitoshi
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quote:
You're mistaken.
I can't fault you for being indirect. [Razz] Thanks for the correction, I must've switched the sales in my mind somehow.

quote:
On the other hand, I know plenty of people who are waiting for the big exclusives (MGS4, FFXIII, etc), so I certainly wouldn't count Sony out.
I think this is a big factor actually, yeah, and not even just the lack of killer apps. The price will still be too high for a lot of people until it reaches three or even two hundred dollars. The PS2 didn't really skyrocket its sales until it got the price at and below $200, when the majority of casual gamers finally decided to buy it. That's not to say it wasn't doing well; just that it's been selling like mad with its lower price and established library.

And, as you said, the really great games are still a ways off.

quote:
it seems pretty fair to say that the PS3 launch was a flop
Fair indeed. I doubt it could've gone much worse, actually. Sony needs to get back in touch with its audience. No more crappy launch parties or botched E3 conferences. Underplay the hype and overdeliver; market it strategically with appealing and informative ads showing the games, not abstract crap with it making a Rubik's Cube explode or making a doll cry.

quote:
3/8/07 - Mario Party 8 (I'm not big on these myself, but they seem to always do well.)
3/13/07 - Prince of Persia, Tiger Woods PGA 2007
4/1/07 - Super Mario Galaxy

I guess the main problem is that none of those games scream "Buy me!" to me. Even SMG. Ever since Mario became 3D and it was running through the same level ten times to collect 125 stars or shines or what have you, I basically decided I wasn't interested. I was raised on Mario and love the game dearly, especially SMB3. To me, that's what Mario is about: running through levels, stomping Goombas, and beating the Hammer Bros. Not a collect 'x' fest. [Dont Know]
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Enigmatic
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Of the games mentioned, I'm most interested in the potential of Prince of Persia. Depending on what they do with the control scheme, that could be really cool. I enjoyed Mario 64, but never played Sunshine.

Anecdote: One of my friends at work managed to get a hold of a wii, after weeks of trying. He was in line at Walmart at midnight on a saturday. They got 19 wii, he was 16th in line, and there were several more people in line who didn't get one. So it seems like supply has still not yet reached demand.

Whenever I'm in Target or Best Buy, I swing by the consoles section just to check: About half of the time I see some PS3s sitting on the shelf, but I have never seen a Wii on the shelf yet.

--Enigmatic

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Bokonon
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SSX Blur looks to be pretty cool too. I may get that. Prince of Persia has no allure.

Which just proves that "a dearth of great games" is in the eye of the beholder more than anything else.

-Bok

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twinky
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I loved Sands of Time and have thoroughly enjoyed The Two Thrones. If Rival Swords is any good, it'll probably be one of the games I buy if I pick up a Wii in the future.

I just read an interesting summary of estimated consumer demand for the three consoles from November 2006 through January 2007.

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