posted
So this is why the Xbox 360 didn't get a price drop. All of Sony positive moves this E3 just vanished in a poof of smoke.
Posts: 796 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Is Sony insane!? This is just....just...BONKERS!!
How is this a price drop and not just a "Clearance Sale! 60g PS3s 16% off!" which just about ANY retailer can do with or without Sony's permission?
This is the most pathetic attempt to stimulate sales that I have ever seen. I hope every third party developer jumps ship and swims to Microsoft/Nintendo. That's the only thing thats going to get Sony to stop smoking whatever its tripping on and get back to business.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:How is this a price drop and not just a "Clearance Sale! 60g PS3s 16% off!" which just about ANY retailer can do with or without Sony's permission?
Uhhhhhhh...no, no they can't, without Sony's permission.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Outside of the 360/PS3 debate, I'm looking forward to the new Nintendo Zapper and Mario Kart Wii with online multiplayer functionality (and a nifty steering wheel, even).
I'm not really that enthused about Wii Fit, but the possibilities of the Fit pad are interesting. Soccer games, Dance Dance Revolution, skateboarding, surfing, skiing, etc.
I'm a little miffed that NCAA 08 will not be available for the Wii, but it seems that they may make NCAA 09 Wii-compatible.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:How is this a price drop and not just a "Clearance Sale! 60g PS3s 16% off!" which just about ANY retailer can do with or without Sony's permission?
Uhhhhhhh...no, no they can't, without Sony's permission.
I'd disagree with you but I can't even begin to think how I would look this up.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I wonder will this end the Hardware arms race, the 360 was rushed out and is defective, the PS3 cost to much, but the WII is just right. It's like Goldie locks and the three Video game systems. I say that as a xbox360 owner.
Posts: 796 | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:How is this a price drop and not just a "Clearance Sale! 60g PS3s 16% off!" which just about ANY retailer can do with or without Sony's permission?
Uhhhhhhh...no, no they can't, without Sony's permission.
I'd disagree with you but I can't even begin to think how I would look this up.
You'd be wrong. Authorized retailers and distributors are required to sign contracts indicating that they will abide by the manufacturer's designated Minimum Advertised Price (MAP), or they will not be afforded the opportunity to sell the (current or future) products, and purchases from their stores may not be treated as legitimate, making them ineligible for warranty service.
Why on earth else would, say, Best Buy sell the consoles for $599 when they could just as easily slash prices $10 and instantly start selling more than everyone else on the market?
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged: I wonder will this end the Hardware arms race, the 360 was rushed out and is defective, the PS3 cost to much, but the WII is just right. It's like Goldie locks and the three Video game systems. I say that as a xbox360 owner.
Its not THAT bad on the 360 end. Plus Microsoft just dropped 1 billion dollars to address that concern. I'm going with the sentiment, "Buy a Wii and a 360, its just a mere $50 more then a PS3."
Also I JUST found out that when you download old Nintendo games you are purchasing the rights to play the game so its perfectly safe to delete the games to make space and download them later when you wish to play them again. That definately made my day.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:How is this a price drop and not just a "Clearance Sale! 60g PS3s 16% off!" which just about ANY retailer can do with or without Sony's permission?
Uhhhhhhh...no, no they can't, without Sony's permission.
I'd disagree with you but I can't even begin to think how I would look this up.
You'd be wrong. Authorized retailers and distributors are required to sign contracts indicating that they will abide by the manufacturer's designated Minimum Advertised Price (MAP), or they will not be afforded the opportunity to sell the (current or future) products, and purchases from their stores may not be treated as legitimate, making them ineligible for warranty service.
Why on earth else would, say, Best Buy sell the consoles for $599 when they could just as easily slash prices $10 and instantly start selling more than everyone else on the market?
Because then other retailers would also slash $10 or else $15 and the price would drop until its almost not profitable to sell the product at that price.
Not saying you are wrong, you are probably right, but I am not even sure where I could go to read up on this sort of thing.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: Because then other retailers would also slash $10 or else $15 and the price would drop until its almost not profitable to sell the product at that price.
Exactly, which is what MAP policies are designed to prevent. They're an agreement between the manufacturers and the retailers/distributors to protect margins.
quote:Not saying you are wrong, you are probably right, but I am not even sure where I could go to read up on this sort of thing.
"How is this any different then a PS3 60g 16% off clearance sale, which one might see at any retailer where express permission is given by the manufacturer which in this case is Sony?"
btw thx for the link. Makes sense.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Basically, until recently it was legal for stores to set whatever price they wanted, though manufacturers/distributors were allowed to withhold product from stores selling it at prices they didn't like. Within the last month it has become legal for manufacturers to require (via an agreement) prices be above a specific level, at least in some circumstances (and probably in more or almost all circumstances, in practice).
Until then it was not legal. What you are talking about, erosomniac, is a Minimum Advertised Price agreement, which is the cause of those advertisements that say the price is too low to advertise.
And BB is sort of right; other retailers would lower prices as well until no one was making any profit. Of course, that point has pretty much already been reached (the equilibrium) for many goods; its just the definition of 'profit' used by economists is not equivalent to the definition used by most people.
edit: btw, the very link you've given points out that minimum price agreements were illegal in the US until within the last month, when the Supreme Court ruled.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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Right. This did not stop it from happening, and there were and are numerous loopholes allowing manufacturers to dictate the prices their products must be sold at, legally and above board. I don't, unfortunately, have the legalese details: I do, however, know that of the two dozen or so manufacturers I work with routinely, every single one has an MAP policy I've seen enforced: one part of my job is to constantly search for businesses underselling the MAP and alert the manufacturer. Typically, these companies change their pricing within a day.
I mean, come on, pot's illegal - that doesn't stop it from being the largest cash crop in America.
quote:What you are talking about, erosomniac, is a Minimum Advertised Price agreement, which is the cause of those advertisements that say the price is too low to advertise.
Of course, and the understanding for most manufacturers is that if you violate the minimum advertised price, either through your advertising OR by selling the products at a price lower than the MAP, they'll stop selling you products.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Sure, and that practice is legal. What's illegal was an agreement to sell above a certain price. That you regularly see ads for numerous products where they can't advertise the price is ample proof that a MAP is often not used as a pure proxy for a minimum price agreement.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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Not to nitpick, but the link you provided confirms what Twinky said: the 80GB PS3 does not have hardware backwards compatibility. The article states compatibility will be handled by software. Now, what makes that a nitpick is I have no idea what difference, if any, that really makes. Is hardware BC better than software BC? Does it matter?
I do think the details of the "price cut" are really minimizing the impact it'll have. Since Sony discontinued the 20gb model the minimum price to get a PS3 is still $500, and the price for the "best model" is still $600. Some people may bite, just seeing the lowered price without looking at the bigger picture, but I don't think they'll see the huge sales improvement they're hoping for.
quote:Originally posted by Enigmatic: Now, what makes that a nitpick is I have no idea what difference, if any, that really makes. Is hardware BC better than software BC? Does it matter?
It's the difference between backwards compatibility on the Xbox 360 and backwards compatibility on the PS2. Hardware BC is much, much more reliable, but at the expense of added hardware.
The PS2 had a PS1 processor on board, and IIRC used it for audio processing, in PS2 games (mitigating the added cost for hardware emulation). That way no software emulation was needed to make a PS1 game believe it had just been loaded into a PS1, and as far as I'm aware pretty much every PS1 game "just worked" on the PS2 for precisely that reason.
The PS3 initially contained an Emotion Engine (the PS2 processor), and this was touted as a selling point versus the Xbox 360, which not only doesn't contain the Intel chip used in the original Xbox, but uses an IBM chip that's PowerPC rather than x86. Because of this, backward compatibility on the 360 is achieved through software emulation, which generally requires patches for each individual game that Microsoft wants 360 users to be able to run (over and above the basic software emulation layer). That's why you see batches of games being added to the 360's BC list every few months -- most of them don't "just work" with the software emulation layer, and require additional tweaking by Microsoft.
So someone who buys a 60GB PS3 next week can count on virtually all (something like 97%, IIRC) of the vast PS2 library working on their PS3 out of the box. Someone who buys an 80GB PS3 can't necessarily count on any of them working without checking the compatibility list first.
Software BC is better than nothing, but not nearly as good as hardware BC. Of course, if you don't care about BC at all, the whole thing is irrelevant.
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
XBox 360 price cut by $50 on premium and $20 on the core. $50 is not a huge cut from $400, but about enough to pick up an extra game when you get the console.
posted
So, the June NPD numbers show that Nintendo is still beating Sony like a rented mule. (no offense to mules)
quote:562,000 - Nintendo DS (+25%) 381,800 - Nintendo Wii (+13%) 290,100 - Playstation Portable (+24%) 198,400 - Xbox 360 (+28%) 98,500 - Playstation 3 (+20%)
quote:426,200 - Mario Party 8 (Wii) 293,200 - Wii Play (Wii) 288,400 - Pokemon Diamond (DS) 214,700 - Pokemon Pearl (DS) 197,400 - Forza Motorsport 2 (Xbox 360) 197,350 - Guitar Hero II (PS2) 177,600 - Guitar Hero II - (Xbox 360) 157,900 - Pokemon Battle Revolution (Wii)
quote:Top 10 Sales, First Half 2007
1. Pokemon Diamond (DS) 2. Wii Play (Wii) 3. Pokemon Pearl (DS) 4. God of War 2 (PS2) 5. Guitar Hero II (PS2) 6. Guitar Hero II (Xbox 360) 7. Mario Party 8 (Wii) 8. Crackdown (Xbox 360) 9. Diddy Kong Racing (DS) 10. Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (Wii)
posted
I don't have time to check them right now -- do those percentage increase figures account for the fact that June is a 5-week reporting period for NPD?
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
I don't know - I actually was looking more at the comparisons between systems rather than the percentage increases.
Wii almost outsold the PS3 by 4 to 1. It sold nearly twice as many units as the 360.
The top four game sellers are Nintendo, as are 5 of the top 8 - with Mario Party 8 selling ridiculously well.
And the first half figures are even more telling - 6 of the top 10 are Nintendo games, and not a single PS3 title.
I read an article earlier today about an interview with the president of EA that essentially said that they misjudged the Wii, and will definitely be looking at where the customers are in the future.
Here's to NCAA 09 on the Wii. Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Sony cuts price of 80gb PS3, (re?)introduces cheaper 40gb. Shrewd move or pre-holiday desperation? To me it looks like they're going to keep trying different feature/price combinations and hope that eventually one of them sticks.
Also, according to the estimates (of which I can't confirm the accuracy) provided by the link from the original post the wii is getting very close to catching the 360 in total sales. It'll mean more when it's confirmed in hard sales data, but still an interesting thing to see leading up to the big holiday shopping season.
I don't really understand Sony's 40 Gig model, essentially you're losing 40 Gigs of space and backwards compatibility (the latter of which is worth more than $100 compared to the price of a PS2) for a savings of $100.
quote:Unlike the other PlayStation 3 models, the new one won't be able to play games made for the PlayStation 2. In a statement, Sony said this was due to a more extensive lineup of games of the PlayStation 3.
posted
Heh, yeah. Quite the lineup. You know, I've got awefully poor impulse control about buying stuff like this, but the PS3 just isn't really doing anything for me. I'd *like* for it to have a compelling lineup. Maybe some day...
Posts: 3275 | Registered: May 2007
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Brain Age 2: More Training in Minutes a Day (DS) – 141K
Heavenly Sword (PS3) – 139K
The Halo 3 juggernaut pretty much obliterated everything else, despite going on sale September 25th. It also caused Xbox 360 sales to roughly double for the month:
posted
A guy on another forum was kind enough to compile monthly console sales since the 360 launch.
Keep in mind that in some months (e.g. September), NPD's reporting period is 5 weeks. [Added: If I can find out which periods are 5 weeks long, I'll repost this chart with weekly sales per reporting period, so that all of the figures use the same scale.]
posted
It may not have been the second best real month, since the September reporting period is 5 weeks long. I'm trying to find out what other reporting periods are 5 weeks so we can compare apples to apples.
The Wii just keeps on selling, though -- game releases seem to make no difference.
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
Okay, I adjusted the previous figures so that they're all weekly sales figures for each reporting period. March, June, September, and December are 5-week reporting periods for NPD -- that way their "year" has 52 weeks.
posted
Here's my (quick and dirty) graphical summary of U.S. sales for each console using the NPD figures. In each case I assume average weekly sales for the duration of the reporting period, to eliminate fluctuations in sales rates caused by the discrepancy between 4-week and 5-week reporting periods. So in the cumulative graphs the cumulative sales are incremented each week by the weekly average sales for that reporting period; in the weekly graph the sales are flattened at the weekly average for each reporting period. That's as granular as this data gets.
posted
Thanks for that break down twinky, I too wonder why the Wii continues to sell so well dispite a lack of huge blockbuster games.
Not that Metroid was not highly anticipated or that Super Mario Galaxy is ignored, but Nintendo does not have anything new on the level of say Smash Bros or Pokemon. If the Wii comes out with another franchise like Pokemon, I think they will win the current generation's console wars.
I saw a wii commercial the other day where it showed a bunch of old men playing Wii bowling from their nursing homes. They were all jumping up and down, covering their faces and peeking between fingers and I think that is in large part why the Wii just keeps selling. It reaches demographics previously unheard of. I've read several articles at my job concerning nursing homes purchasing Wiis because Wii sports and games of that ilk are very popular amongst retirees. It's also far and away the most affordable of any new generation console so it makes a good present. Grandparents also talk alot about how they finally have something they can do with their grandchildren that they both enjoy.
Still having said all that, Nintendo has to come up with a better game lineup then the gamecube offered if it wants to really press it's advantage. What direction they will go in when it comes time to put out the next generation console really boggols the mind. One one hand they can go high tech and put something out for $300 or $400 and they will be seen as traitors. Or they can stay below tech limits and hope fun game play will continue to trounce graphics/processing speeds.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I was reading something a little while back that talked about how Nintendo's amazing game design was one of the factors that leads to it having fewer games developed for it. Third party developers have difficultly competing in quality.
The top games selling on the Wii are all going to be Nintendo products (Mario Galaxy, Super Smash Brothers: Brawl, Metriod Prime: 3, Zelda: Twilight Princess and whatever other Zelda game they come out with, Pokemon Plutonium or whatever it is). That's got to be pretty disheartening for developers.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
I think Nintendo are positioned pretty well for the next six months or so, with Mario Galaxy and Wii Fit coming out this fall, then Smash Brothers a few months later, followed by the next Mario Kart. I think the Wii will probably continue to be supply constrained well into 2008, but even so, that still means selling more than both of the other consoles put together in most months. I think [BlackBlade is] right about the senior/casual demographic, and that's likely part of why Nintendo have continued to succeed largely without blockbuster titles. For example, Wii Play keeps on showing up in the top ten monthly sales figures. I think another part of it is that the Wii is still supply-constrained, so a lot of people who might have wanted to buy a Wii months ago might have finally gotten one a few weeks ago. I think that's going to continue.
I do think Microsoft are quite well-positioned, though. Halo 3 sold twice as much in ten days (3.3 million units across 3 SKUs) as everything else on the top ten list did in five weeks (1.66 million). It sold more than the next best-selling title by an order of magnitude. That's mind-boggling -- it took Gears of War, last year's biggest 360 title, several months to hit the 3 million mark worldwide, and Halo 3 does it in ten days in the U.S. alone. The 360 also has a great attach rate, not just for first-party titles but also for third-party titles, which attracts developers to the platform. That's why their fall software lineup is as good as it is.
Before too long the Xbox 360 Arcade will be out and only $30 more expensive than a Wii, but I'm not convinced that it will help them much. I think their bread and butter will remain with the Core and Premium buyers -- the Halo market. I think the Wii will "win" this generation of consoles worldwide, because of the combination of its staggering success and the 360's non-performance in Japan, but I think the 360 will still be successful. I don't think it'll be like last generation where the PS2 conquered the world and everything else was an also-ran.
Added:
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:If the Wii comes out with another franchise like Pokemon, I think they will win the current generation's console wars.
I think they already have.
From a profit standpoint, I absolutely agree.
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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(although I'm not sure why anyone is excited about manhunt 2...)
and I'm really excited for Okami and battalion wars ii
I think Microsoft will make a jump when the red ring problems are finally resolved, I know I've been waiting until then to get an Xbox.
Posts: 2489 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
I'm sad they killed Project HAMMER. I was looking forward to that game in a very visceral way.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
I am simultaneously thrilled that there is going to be a new Bionic Commando game and dissappointed that it's not going to be on Wii. (at least not according to the release I saw)
posted
So, I know this thread is PS3 vs. 360 vs. Wii, but I was wondering if anyone could post PS2 sales figures for a similar period? Just out of curiousity.
And Okami for the Wii? Well, we saw that one coming a mile away, but it's exciting all the same.
Posts: 433 | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
I have no reason to buy a PS3, and cannot think of any game I want to play on PS3 for that matter. I am one of the guilty who only play the bigger titles, especially those by Nintendo themselves for Wii. Otherwise, I am happy to play games on 360 or PC.
Posts: 1870 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I just picked up the "Orange Box" for 360 last night with Half-Life 2, Team Fortress, and all the other goodies, including the instantly addictive game, Portal.
For my money, if I could only own ONE system, it would be a 360.
Posts: 1870 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
This may be a dumb question, but what do you folks think about the idea of me getting a Wii to get my daughter to exercise? You know, only allow her to play it if she gets her homework done, so it seems like a reward. I don't know. Ideas?
Posts: 3354 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
I don't think it would work: since all Wii games can be played as easily with small movements of the wrist, I don't think someone who isn't consciously using it for the sake of exercise would keep up the exaggerated movements very long, especially if your daughter is so disinclined to physical activity that she doesn't elect to do physical activity of her own accord already.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
You can get "Dance Dance Revolution" pads these days for significantly less than the cost of a Wii, but depending on your daughter's age, she might not be impressed. (The graphics and sound on the stand-alone pads is strictly out of the 8-bit era of video aming.) Still, I find that DDR tends to be a fairly strong guarantee of getting *some* exercise.
(For that matter, even a PS2, one of the DDR games, and a dance pad is still about half the cost of a Wii, and the graphics and sound are much more impressive... But then you have pressure to get other games for it.)
Posts: 3826 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
Steven, they made the "Wii Fit" for very much that purpose, and it keeps track of all kinds of biometrics, I'm told.
Might be worth looking into.
Personally, I'm looking forward to Mario Kart Wii, the Wii Zapper, and Wii Star Wars where you get to swing a lightsaber.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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