posted
I just read an interesting theory on maybe Florean Fortescue is a descendant of Ravenclaw. It seems to be based around the fact that one of the headmasters in DD's room name is also Fortescue.
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I think I might believe the top one but not the bottom one. I'm not saying I actually think it is, but I think there is a possibility. And if not that bottom "scan" was a good job on the hoaxsters part.
Posts: 5362 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Intresting. I don't think that the scan is real. JK Rowling would be having a fit right now if it was.
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Look at it - there's no way that isn't wish-fulfillment fan fiction. One page chock full of exposition describing the fate of Snape, Snape's motives, Harry's feelings about him, all in banal, badly-written language?
quote: "It hurts anyway, though," he sobbed. "That's perfectly fine." "It's weird but I feel guilty. I feel guilty that I never listened to him or I never took him seriously in a good way."
Really? Guilty that he never listened to Snape? Guilty that he never took Snape seriously? Is this referring to an entirely different series? Harry and Snape's relationship has a great deal of nuance, but Snape telling Harry things that Harry refuses to seriously consider is NOT one of the wrinkles. How could anyway think that's Rowling? Besides the bad grammar, she should be insulted that people would even consider it possible that she'd give Harry such cliched dialogue.
Also, who the heck is Rimilus? There is no Rimilus in the Potterverse - my guess is someone meant it to be Remus Lupin, but didn't even get the name right. There is a Regulus Black, but Harry wouldn't be having this kind of conversation with R.A.B.
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Again, I don't really think it is real, but I do think it's possible. Rimilus could be the mysterious RAB who isn't Regulus. We don't know, and I'm not ready to rule it out or believe it.
Posts: 5362 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:Originally posted by MoonRabbit: 1. Harry's Aunt Violet (or whatever her name is) will come out of the closet as a witch,
Petunia as a witch isn't crazy at all.
Not crazy but alas, already debunked by JK Rowling herself -- a long time ago. It was actually a theory of mine from the very first book when she had her jealous explosion. (BTW, it's Petunia.)
I have been wondering if Dudley will show some magic powers, though. I remember Rowling saying that one character who had not shown magic powers before would, in a very unusual situation, do magic. I've been thinking it's either Dudley (because, after all, he's tied to the same bloodline as Harry) or Filch (whose been trying for years).
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She said late in life, not just past 11. I don't think it will be Dudley, I think it will be Filch, Figg, or a new charecter.
I can't find where JK debunked that Petunia is a Witch, she has said she's not a Squib. I think she might be an actual witch with skills who either didn't go to hogwarts at all, didn't go for long, or went and didn't tell her husband.
Posts: 5362 | Registered: Apr 2004
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I don't remember her debunking the witch theory, I definately remember her saying Petunia wasn't a squib. I am not sure why people thought she was a squib since she is not from a magical family to begin with. Her not being able to do magic would just make her a muggle. I think it would make sense if she was a witch who was expelled like Hagrid, and got her magic taken away. It would explain why she is so bitter about the magical world and why she hates Harry so much.
I agree with everyone who believes Snape will go out heroically by saving Harry. I think this will probably be one of the biggest scenes in the book. Snape is good or J.K. has been misleading us horribly.
I think at least one of the Weasly's will die, perhaps Percy will die redeeming himself.
I also think Kreacher has one of the Horcrux's hidden in his stash of crap, given to him by Regelus.
I like the idea of Wormtail using his silver hand to kill Greyback but it could also get Lupin. Though J.K. did elude to the idea that he could come in handy in the future, and killing Lupin does not benefit Harry.
I do not think she will kill Harry, but I think she would kill him before she would kill Ron or Hermione. The spoilers by the hacker are a load, his grammar is bad and if he wanted us to believe him he should have posted an excerpt. Who gave him publicity anyway? How can you sell a Horcrux? I was under the impression that only a really powerful wizard could create them and you can't mass market soul splitting.
Posts: 13 | Registered: Jun 2007
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Apparently Keith Olbermann had a theory today that is thought out using the rules and structure of drama and rules of business.
quote: Harry's scar is a horcrux. As Harry prepares to kill himself to make Voldemort mortal, Snape appears and tells him that there's a way to get rid of the horcrux and still survive; however, he must give up his magical powers.
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Heifertipper, I think the people who think Petunia is a squib think she is lying that her family is not magical, and they were.
And where do you get the selling of the horcrux, I read both of those pages and can't find it. But I think it might mean that someone sold the finished horcrux, like someone sold the real RAB locket later.
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That is the only way I can imagine for Harry to survive and it not to be a lame cop-out -- he has to completely and permanently lose all magical powers.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Sorry I should have been more specific. The Horcrux selling theory comes from that spoiler guy (Gabriel) who has been running rampant on the Internet for the last couple of days. He said that Book 7 ends with Draco selling Horcrux's. I'm not sure I should post what else he said since there is a miniscule chance it could be true.
So you mean selling Voldemort's horcrux's? I took it to mean he was actually selling the product, like the twins sell jokes. But it could definately mean things like the locket.
Was there ever a hint that Lily was a full blood wizard? If she was, why would she lie. It would have saved her a lot of grief at school. I doubt Snape was the only one who called her a mudblood.
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Oh, I hadn't even looked at the spoiler guy's stuff, just saw the scans linked here. That doesn't sound good. But yes I mean selling Voldemort's horcrux's, which is a bit more possible, I once read a theory that the one order member (the one who sold the shotty cauldrons) sold the locket out of Sirius's house.
I had forgotten that Snape called Lilly a mudblood, that kind of blows that theory. If that wouldnt' have happened I would have believed that most people who didn't know her homelife thought she was a muggleborn because they didn't know her and she had no witch siblings (you know that still is possible, that Snape assumed Mudblood). It still is possible Petunia was kicked out of hogwarts.
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Now that you mention it, do we even know anything at all about Lilly's or James' families? I can't remember anything specific. I think we know more about Neville's family tree. It is possible Snape assumed, but I guess if I were Lily and I wasn't a mudblood, I would have definately put an end to that rumor. Nobody likes to be called names, especially in school, and I doubt she would have stood for it if it wasn't true.
Yeah if you actually see the spoiler don't waste your time reading it. It is crap and will just make you angry.
I wonder what would be the point of selling Voldemorts Horcrux's after he is dead? Nostalgia? Then again people buy Brad Pitt's leftovers so that is not such a big stretch.
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quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: That is the only way I can imagine for Harry to survive and it not to be a lame cop-out -- he has to completely and permanently lose all magical powers.
Could you please explain this? Why would Harry living happily ever after, powers and all, be a cop-out?
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As I reread the Half-Blood Prince,and Dumbledore was showing Harry about Voldemort's childhood, I could see Harry feeling a bit sorry for Voldemort. I wonder if that has something to do with Harry's ability to love comnpared to Voldemort's inability. Maybe Harry is able to reach deep down inside himself and find a love for the "child that was" inside Voldemort and that somehow leads to Voldemort's redemption (ala Star Wars's redeption of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader).
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quote:Originally posted by breyerchic04: She said late in life, not just past 11. I don't think it will be Dudley, I think it will be Filch, Figg, or a new charecter.
I can't find where JK debunked that Petunia is a Witch, she has said she's not a Squib. I think she might be an actual witch with skills who either didn't go to hogwarts at all, didn't go for long, or went and didn't tell her husband.
From JK Rowling's own web site (http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/en/rumours_view.cfm?id=37):
quote:Section: Rumours Aunt Petunia will start exhibiting magical tendencies
No, she won't. Aunt Petunia has never performed magic, nor will she ever be able to do so.
As for the "late in life" thing -- we've had this discussion here before. Late in life can be a relative thing. Most wizards begin exhibiting magical powers at a very young age -- well before they go to Hogwarts. Harry did things when he was scared and angry as a very small child. Compared to that, 17 is pretty late in life. Still, there are lots of candidates, not just Dudley, so we will just have to see. Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: That is the only way I can imagine for Harry to survive and it not to be a lame cop-out -- he has to completely and permanently lose all magical powers.
Could you please explain this? Why would Harry living happily ever after, powers and all, be a cop-out?
No, I don't think I can explain it. Well, maybe a little, but I don't expect it to be convincing to anybody who disagrees with me.
Rowling could prove me wrong. It's not like I've decided that it is a cop-out if he gets to live happily-ever-after.
It's a prediction. I predict that after all the hints that Harry's and Voldemort's lives are inextrictably linked, that Harry must die in order to defeat Voldemort, if at the end she changes the apparent rules so that it's not necessary, it will feel cheap and unsatisfying.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: That is the only way I can imagine for Harry to survive and it not to be a lame cop-out -- he has to completely and permanently lose all magical powers.
Could you please explain this? Why would Harry living happily ever after, powers and all, be a cop-out?
No, I don't think I can explain it. Well, maybe a little, but I don't expect it to be convincing to anybody who disagrees with me.
Rowling could prove me wrong. It's not like I've decided that it is a cop-out if he gets to live happily-ever-after.
It's a prediction. I predict that after all the hints that Harry's and Voldemort's lives are inextrictably linked, that Harry must die in order to defeat Voldemort, if at the end she changes the apparent rules so that it's not necessary, it will feel cheap and unsatisfying.
I don't entirely disagree with you, because I definitely think Rowling has set us up for the possibility that Harry will die. I don't think she's made a rule about it yet, though. She says Harry defeats Voldemort through love and I'm still not clear on how that will play out. I'm also still not clear on how him losing his magic powers would have anything to do with..well, anything. I guess what I'm hearing you say is that Harry won't just be able to dance through this last book with no long-term consequences and I totally hear you on that. I'm just not sure that giving up his magic powers is quite the right fit for this sacrifice.
I think the cop-out would be that Harry gets through this unscathed. At the least, he will have to lose someone he cares about deeply. I'm not convinced that Ron or Hermoine will come through this unscathed. That may well be the sacrifice he pays for this. Or something else.
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quote:I'm just not sure that giving up his magic powers is quite the right fit for this sacrifice.
Yeah, I think you're right. But I think it needs to be something of that degree.
Imagine if Harry lost his powers and had to live as a muggle -- it would be almost worse than dying. His only happiness has come from his magical life. Being forced back into the muggle world would be a fate worse than death for Harry.
I don't think that losing a beloved friend rises to that level of loss.
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I'm saying that losing a beloved friend would not, should not be a fate worse than death for Harry. Otherwise, I'd be really disappointed in him.
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But losing a beloved friend IS a fate worse than death... It's agonizingly painful. It would be devastating for him to lose all of his parental figures and the most supportive friends he's ever had...
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I think Porter was comparing the lose of ONE friend to the lose of all his powers.
Yes killing off everyone Harry knows and cares about would be pretty much similar to killing Harry himself.
I think Porter is merely pointing out that he made all these friends and new family by virtue of his magic powers. If he lost all his powers most of that world he has come to love would be closed to him forever.
Think the occasional official visit that Fudge makes to the Prime Minister of England. That is close to what Harry would be limited to if he lost all his powers and returned to the Muggle world. It's a reasonable argument to say that such a fate would be worse then death for Harry.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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My point is that I think better of his friends and the wizarding world than to imagine that they would cut off all contact with him if he became a Squib. Filch has no powers and he lives at Hogwarts. Why is Harry being shoved out in the cold and the whole wizarding world - including the Weasleys - pretending to never know him? It's not only unlikely, it defies logic and the story as it is told so far.
Also, I think better of Harry than to imagine that he is more attached to his wand than to Ron or Hermione, and that he'd prefer one of them dieing over no longer being able to do magic.
Not only that, but it goes all against the whole theme of the series - that the most powerful magic is love.
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Do you think Harry could just live at the Weasleys home and do nothing because he has no powers?
I'm not saying the would avoid him or ignore him, but things would be VERY different. Actually it would be a very Roald Dahlish if Harry loses his powers but his friends continue to visit him frequently in disguise.
Nobody is saying Harry would PREFER to keep his powers over say Ron and Hermione living. But do you think Harry could never get over the loss of say Hermione? Could he get over the loss of losing all his powers which have become a core of his identity? I think the later for Harry would be more difficult then the former, and that does not make Harry a bad person considering his background and past history.
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Right -Raold Dahlish, not Rowling. That's only plausible if the story is written by a completely different writer with a completely different style and completely different body of work.
Why would they have to be in disguise to visit them? Hagrid isn't allowed to do magic, and he's not exiled to Muggledom. It's not only implausible story-wise, it doesn't fit with the rules of the wizarding world as we know it.
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Hagrid can't just hang out in the muggle world, he would raise more then a few eye brows.
Look I'm not even arguing that its assumed Harry will lose his powers. I'm simply saying that losing them would be a fate possibly worse then death IMO. Without powers Harry simply does not have the same intimacy with the world of wizardry that he currently enjoys. He certainly could not teach at hogwarts without powers.
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I'm saying that the projected consequences of Harry losing his powers do not match the story so far, the rules of the wizarding world, or any precedent set by Rowling.
Hagrid teaches at Hogwarts without powers. Trelawney teaches at Hogwarts and her only qualification is unreliable and unknown to herself. Professor Binn teaches at Hogwarts and he's dead.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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I don't mean that losing his powers would necessarily be a fate worse than death, but it could be contrived to be so. I agree that it doesn't really match up with what we've seen so far, but I think a plausible reason could be created.
My real point is that, given all the foreboding hints that Harry must die to defeat Voldemort, anything easier than death will seem too easy.
BTW, I'm going through the books again. I've only read each one of them once before.
I'm astounded at how much fun the first book was. I thoroughly enjoyed myself reading it.
I'm just afraid that reading all seven in a row will feel like watching the movie Groundhog Day multiple times in a row. We'll see.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Hagrid teaches at Hogwarts without powers. Trelawney teaches at Hogwarts and her only qualification is unreliable and unknown to herself. Professor Binn teaches at Hogwarts and he's dead.
Hagrid has magical powers. He used magic several times when he went to pick up Harry at the beginning of book 1. In fact, he said that the reason he was so excited to go get Harry is that he was permitted to use magic while doing so.
Trelawney, at the very least, is a witch.
Are there any examples of ghosts using magical powers (besides, of course, walking around and talking while being dead)?
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Some of you have a very dark worldview. As though tragedy is the only thing that gives life meaning. <shudder>
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I know Hagrid has them, but he isn't supposed. He is officially not supposed to, but still, he is officially employed at and teaches at Hogwarts.
Trelawney is a witch. But she teaches divination, and she's crappy at it.
Nope. Not that I'm aware of.
The problem with the theory is:
1) There is no precedent - no one has become a Squib after having had magic. Ordered to not practice it, yes, but lost the ability? No.
2) What reason or cause would there be to lose powers? It isn't like a spleen and isn't that easy to lose or gain - the prevelance of Squibs proves that and if it was that easy to take away, someone would have tried it on Voldemort. It hasn't been set up and it isn't possible within the rules of the world. You might as well say that in order to defeat Voldemort, Harry must enlist the help of space aliens.
3) Even if the losing powers thing was possible, the subsequent isolation makes no sense - plenty of non-magical people participate in the wizarding world.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Lisa: Some of you have a very dark worldview. As though tragedy is the only thing that gives life meaning. <shudder>
Well choices that involve the lives of thousands of other humans would only be difficult to make if a huge amount of self sacrifice was involved in the choice.
If right did not prevail by overcoming extraordinary adversity it would seem kinda stupid that evil *almost* never prevails in books.
posted
I'm with those that say a happy ending will feel very unsatisfying. If that makes me someone with a dark worldview, then I guess I'm not very surprised. I love Shakespearean tragedies after all.
I haven't kept up with the rumor mill or read any of Rowling's responses, so this may be out of date, but I have always wondered if Neville wasn't going to be the one who really destroyed Voldemort - dying in the process, of course because that fits with my love of dark, tragic endings. Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Belle: Killing the last scarred, yet good remnant of the Longbottom family seems beyond even Rowling's willingness to harm her characters.
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quote:Originally posted by Lisa: Some of you have a very dark worldview. As though tragedy is the only thing that gives life meaning. <shudder>
Well choices that involve the lives of thousands of other humans would only be difficult to make if a huge amount of self sacrifice was involved in the choice.
If right did not prevail by overcoming extraordinary adversity it would seem kinda stupid that evil *almost* never prevails in books.
edited to add the "almost" qualifier.
Exactly!
This isn't a happily ever after tale. It's been steadily growing in darkness and terror. While I even expect the last book to have comic relief, I do not expect the light-hearted, fun read that was the first book. This isn't a carefree romp through a series of challenges to outwit Voldemort at the end. Wit and cunning won't defeat Voldemort. Neither will power. Even Dumbledore, witty and powerful, never defeated him.
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Another thought -- think of how hard it's been, and how much as been sacrificed to slow down Voldemort so far. For his defeat to require less not only wouldn't make sense, it would feel like cheating.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Yeah, I'm with m_p_h. It would be incredibly unsatisfying for me, if every core character survives without undergoing something incredibly painful. I don't expect the Weasley clan to survive intact, one or more of the brothers or Ginny needs to die. Hermione should lose something dear to her, since we don't know her family well, maybe it would be her and Ron getting split apart.
Harry has lost two mentors and father-figures, so his loss is going to be extreme, either his power, his life, or something else that tears him up.
Ginny dying fulfills the tragedy for both Harry and Ron, and maybe if in Ron's grief he turns away from Hermione and she loses him, that would work.
And no, I'm not a sadist, it's just in the tradition of great heroic epic stories, there has to be great loss and sacrifice or it just doesn't mean anything. All this build up for seven books will be pointless if it ends in some stupid, happy-bunny just tell voldemort you love him and all will be well type of ending.
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I just had this thought, how exactly is Harry supposed to kill Voldemort? The only killing spell we know of requires hate to use, and as far as I am concerned that option is not on the table for Harry the champion of love.
Does that mean then that Harry will outwit Voldemort into getting himself killed?
I guess there is still the option of Harry allowing himself to die so that Voldemort is rendered killable. I am not sure I like either possibility.
Is there another way?
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The prophecy says, "Neither can live while the other survives." It does not explicitly say that Harry has to kill Voldemort or vice versa. That leaves other possibilities, although I'm not sure exactly what they are.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Lisa: Some of you have a very dark worldview. As though tragedy is the only thing that gives life meaning. <shudder>
True... What gives life meaning is... well, love... and good things like that. The books have a lot of that in it too. All the characters are already scared in their own way, even Snape is. The whole series equals love, loss, betrayal from the very beginning, even under all the happy candy coated stuff in the beginning because it was seen through the eyes of an innocent optimistic child.
quote: Yeah, I'm with m_p_h. It would be incredibly unsatisfying for me, if every core character survives without undergoing something incredibly painful. I don't expect the Weasley clan to survive intact, one or more of the brothers or Ginny needs to die. Hermione should lose something dear to her, since we don't know her family well, maybe it would be her and Ron getting split apart.
Harry has lost two mentors and father-figures, so his loss is going to be extreme, either his power, his life, or something else that tears him up.
Ginny dying fulfills the tragedy for both Harry and Ron, and maybe if in Ron's grief he turns away from Hermione and she loses him, that would work.
And no, I'm not a sadist, it's just in the tradition of great heroic epic stories, there has to be great loss and sacrifice or it just doesn't mean anything. All this build up for seven books will be pointless if it ends in some stupid, happy-bunny just tell voldemort you love him and all will be well type of ending.
Just OUCH! Hope is like cream and sugar in coffee. I got to have some of it, otherwise there's no point to drinking that black bitter stuff. I don't think I want all is happy and good McDonald's Milkshake, but i sure as heck don't want to sit and read 784 pages of pure utter heartrenching agony! There's got to be a middle ground between the two! Don't you guys like Harry? He's such a nice guy. I don't want him to be destroyed. He's already been traumatized for life from losing his parents, his godfather, his mentor, must he lose his love, his friends, his powers and everything that makes him him? He doesn't deserve that, Voldermort does, as Voldermort is the one that is evil here! gah! Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: Another thought -- think of how hard it's been, and how much as been sacrificed to slow down Voldemort so far. For his defeat to require less not only wouldn't make sense, it would feel like cheating.
It can't require less, by definition. You're looking at the sacrifices that've already been made as things that happened and are over. All of them have led to the eventual end of this story, and if no other losses were to happen at all, those which already have will still exist.
The idea that they have to match and exceed everything that's already happened seems a little creepy, is all.
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