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Author Topic: Michael is a fraud.
Javert Hugo
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quote:
And still single for a reason...
[Frown] I hate that phrase. It implies that if someone isn't married, then there must be something wrong with them. First, it encourages people to get married as soon as possible regardless of whether it's a good decision, and second, it's quite uncharitable.

Third, it implies that there getting married equals a stamp of approval. It isn't.

quote:

"You're like a serial killer in prison."
"Women marry them all the time!"


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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by Javert Hugo:
quote:
And still single for a reason...
[Frown] I hate that phrase. It implies that if someone isn't married, then there must be something wrong with them. First, it encourages people to get married as soon as possible regardless of whether it's a good decision, and second, it's quite uncharitable.

Third, it implies that there getting married equals a stamp of approval. It isn't.

quote:

"You're like a serial killer in prison."
"Women marry them all the time!"


My brother is not married, and there is nothing wrong with him. But he does not socialize enough to make friends. He won't get married until he does.
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Javert Hugo
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And you're prescient now?
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El JT de Spang
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I think rushing into a marriage is a lot riskier than waiting to get married, even if waiting means you get stigmatized.
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Rakeesh
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quote:
He won't get married until he does.
While I agree that 'still single for a reason' is an unkind thing to say, from a purely pragmatic standpoint not socializing enough to make friends does make one's chances of finding a suitable partner for marriage worse. If you don't socialize, what's left? Random chance meetings, and work?
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Javert Hugo
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Shy, introverted people do get married all the time.

To answer the question directly, how many couples here met on the internet?

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erosomniac
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quote:
Originally posted by Javert Hugo:
To answer the question directly, how many couples here met on the internet?

Is that not considered socializing?

I certainly consider it socializing - it helps me meet my quota. [Smile]

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Ben
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eros beat me to it.

internet forums ARE social.

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Javert Hugo
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Forums are not the only way people meet on the internet.
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erosomniac
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Yes, but how many ways are there to meet people on the internet that you wouldn't consider social?
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Javert Hugo
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*sigh* Don't split hairs.

I'm saying that you don't have to chat up every barista and go to dances in order to get married.

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Rakeesh
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quote:
Shy, introverted people do get married all the time.
I think you're being overly defensive about this. I didn't suggest it was impossible to get into a good marriage if you don't 'chat up every barista...' just that insofar as such things can be tangibly guessed at, one's chances are not improved by not socializing.

You're less likely to draw the ace of hearts if you only rarely draw from the deck.

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Javert Hugo
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Sure - but that's certainly not reason enough for other to walk around passing out judgments.

Added: That also implies that everyone is waiting for the ace of hearts as opposed to something in the higher cards in a red suit.

[ November 06, 2007, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: Javert Hugo ]

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erosomniac
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quote:
Sure - but that's certainly not reason enough for other to walk around passing out judgments.
quote:
Shy, introverted people do get married all the time.

To answer the question directly, how many couples here met on the internet?

Er.
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Javert Hugo
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You'll have to spell out your objections directly, e.
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Sharpie
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I know that I'm shy, quite, and I'm fairly defensive when people use the word "shy" in a negative way. Shy isn't bad. Shy isn't good or bad. It's just shy.

I hate parties, but I love the people in my life. I love solitude. I am energized by time alone and thinking, just the way (I understand) that extroverts are energized by interacting with people.

Don't be surprised when shy people are defensive. We hear things like "she'll never find a husband" or "she's so gifted, too bad she is backwards". There are books (written by unshy people) about how to help your child not be shy. Then if we are smart, we look at our lives, our very full lives with friends and happiness, and think about those poor people who have to go to party after party :-).

To be somewhat on topic, pH, I am sorry that this person was a scumbag and I'm glad that you found out. I hope for great happiness in the future for you.

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Rakeesh
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Javert Hugo,

quote:
Sure - but that's certainly not reason enough for other to walk around passing out judgments.

Added: That also implies that everyone is waiting for the ace of hearts as opposed to something in the higher cards in a red suit.

Well, of course it's not. I thought I already made it clear I thought it wasn't a good reason to pass judgement.

As for higher cards...heh, well, it depends on what game you're playing. An ace is either high card or low card...but in the games I most commonly play, it's the high card. In some games it's the high card OR the low card. Anyway, I didn't suggest that people waiting were waiting for the lowest.

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TomDavidson
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quote:
There are books (written by unshy people) about how to help your child not be shy.
That's because shyness is a mental disorder. [Wink]
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Javert Hugo
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I think my metaphor was muddled. I was saying that some people are waiting for the ace of hearts and only the ace of hearts and even if they meet the ace of diamonds then no good because that isn't the ace of hearts, and other people are a go when they meet someone who is anything from a 10 to an ace in either a diamond or a heart.
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erosomniac
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quote:
As for higher cards...heh, well, it depends on what game you're playing. An ace is either high card or low card...but in the games I most commonly play, it's the high card. In some games it's the high card OR the low card. Anyway, I didn't suggest that people waiting were waiting for the lowest.
I'm pretty sure she was implying that not everyone is waiting for the best, but is willing to settle for (or is actively seeking) great, good or above average.

Edit: or she could post while I was posting, making my post useless!

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Reshpeckobiggle
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What if I'm looking for a set? Or a full house even (why not?)
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Sharpie
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
There are books (written by unshy people) about how to help your child not be shy.
That's because shyness is a mental disorder. [Wink]
Pshaw. [Smile]
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ketchupqueen
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I need to clarify that there are real reasons. Like commitment issues, abandonment issues, anger management issues, and a lot of other baggage these people would have to overcome before they would be in a relationship. Reasons. Reasons that meeting someone nice is not going to change, and reasons that have in fact broken several hearts.

I love these folk to be friends with them, but the ones I'm thinking of, I would not want to be in a relationship with, because I'm pretty sure I'd end up hurt.

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Noemon
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As would kpc, probably.
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BlackBlade
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Javert: I doubt he will get married until he does, is that better?

Look being an introvert is not a bad thing in of itself. In the case of my brother he actually is not introverted. But he fails to empathize with others, and is very rigid in how he acts around people. Hence he is starting to withdraw from society.

Those behaviors DO lower his chances of finding a suitable partner for life, which is something HE desperatly wants.

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Shigosei
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That's how I interpreted your post, kq. Not "They're not married, there must be a reason!" but "I know from experience that they have problems that would make it unlikely for them to be in a relationship."

I have a friend who feels lonely and wants a relationship. But I don't think that will happen until he addresses the problems he has. I'm not judging him because he's single -- I'd think the same things if he were in a relationship.

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ketchupqueen
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Exactly, Shig-- except when they're in a relationship it's two people hurting instead of one.
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ketchupqueen
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quote:
Originally posted by Noemon:
As would kpc, probably.

I'd like to hope so. [Wink]
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TheGrimace
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kq, I understand where you're coming from and it's why I phrased things that a lot of us are normal/decent guys (certainly not everyone) and I'd even be willing to grant that my field probably has a greater proportion than some others of people with let's call them "personality oddities" that don't lend so much towards good/stable relationships.

I'm just arguing that there's some of us who are single atm primarily because we don't have/take enough opportunities to get out there and meet others and/or meet other women (though I shouldn't complain since my work environment has proportionally a lot more women than many other areas within the industry). at least for me it's more of the "not as many cards drawn out of the deck" thing (to borrow an earlier analogy).

And that could launch me into a whole 'nother discussion (which has already been partly started) but I don't know that it's appropriate to derail pH's thread more than it already is [Smile]

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Squish
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quote:
Originally posted by pH:
If I get a crush on someone, how do I know if I really like them, or if it's a "rebound?" I honestly don't know how to tell the difference. I don't really think I understand what a rebound is, either.

-pH

I know this input is out of nowhere but I just thought I'd say that for me, a rebound is someone who helps you get over the first person by helping with physical contact withdrawals. I always miss hugs and whatnot and rebounds are stand-ins until I'm in a better situation. I don't know if anyone else sees it this way, but if I only think about a person when I don't want to be alone, I think he/she might be a rebound. If I start thinking about them as far as what I like about their personality and notice I'd choose to hang out with them for a specific reason, then I think they're less of a rebound and more of a possibility.

Hope things get better for you, pH. Hugs.

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Nick
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[Frown] I'm very sorry to hear that this happened to you Pearce.

As for knowing when to date again, I've had trouble with that too. I think Tom's advice is spot-on about timing. It's been almost a year since my fiancee passed away, and I'm starting to feel like I'm ready to go and date again. I feel like I should. I'm still young like you are, I'm 23, so we both have time. I'ts just hard being single after years of a long term relationship. I'm finding it very hard to determine whether feelings I have for one girl or another are the beginnings of a "rebound" relationship, and I honestly doubt if it's possible to tell.

I wish you the very best in finding a good and honest man, they are out there. I know everybody has said this, but my email is always open if you want to talk about it at all. [Smile]

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Kasie H
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quote:
I know this input is out of nowhere but I just thought I'd say that for me, a rebound is someone who helps you get over the first person by helping with physical contact withdrawals. I always miss hugs and whatnot and rebounds are stand-ins until I'm in a better situation. I don't know if anyone else sees it this way, but if I only think about a person when I don't want to be alone, I think he/she might be a rebound. If I start thinking about them as far as what I like about their personality and notice I'd choose to hang out with them for a specific reason, then I think they're less of a rebound and more of a possibility.
I think this is about right. I can identify people I'm rebounding with because when I step back from the situation, I can tell that I'm "settling" for them, and I almost always have put up roadblocks in my head to having a serious relationship.

Also, I've noticed that if a man is a rebound and not a serious possibility, I continue to rehash the old relationship emotionally even while being with the other person physically. And if I feel like I'm starting to have serious feelings toward the new person, they're usually a shadow of the feelings I had for the person I just broke up with.

I know it's not a rebound when I'd rather think about the new person than the old.

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pH
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quote:
Originally posted by Kasie H:


I know it's not a rebound when I'd rather think about the new person than the old.

I can see that. Although right now, I'm still occasionally struck with the angry-type-feelings...speaking of which...

You guys, I'm fairly certain he did get married. He gave my things back with a few weird items that weren't even mine, and in between asking him about them, I asked him several times if he'd gotten married. He answered the questions about the items, but he would never give me a simple yes or no about the marriage. And if he did get married, I feel obligated to tell his wife. Does this count as dwelling on it? At what point should I just let it go? It just makes me so angry that he might not have told her anything...or might have invented some weaselly lie that made her still okay with going through with the wedding. And I feel a little guilty that I couldn't contact her in time to prevent this from happening. At the same time, I know that dwelling on this is bad....but I really feel bad for her and want her to know the truth. I know that none of this is directly my fault, but I still feel kind of guilty for not...I'm not exactly sure what it is that makes me feel guilty.

-pH

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TomDavidson
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Presumably he is living with his wife. Call and leave a message.
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pH
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I don't have a home phone number for him....ever. I have 2 cell phones. Although I suppose she probably changed her name, based on some things he told me in the past...perhaps I can find something that way.

-pH

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Javert Hugo
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You should ABSOLUTELY NOT feel guilty.

I know exactly what you mean. That brief period where I was made complicit in that one guy's cheating without knowing left ME feeling like I'd done something wrong.

This goes a long way towards explaing my absolute abhorence and disgust towards anyone who is cheating in just about any way. It's despicable and selfish, because it hurts everyone they have contact with.

For this...I don't know. If you think she doesn't know, then maybe...but you don't have to. It might be dwelling on it.

My feeling is that whoever told you also told her. My experience says that it isn't going to last regardless of what you do. The best thing for you is to burn his stuff and forget him completely. He's not worth a second more thought.

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pH
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I'm taking his stuff to give to charity today, actually. Along with all the stuffed animals and things that he gave me. Maybe some kids will have a nice Christmas. [Smile]

-pH

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Noemon
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Why don't you ask the person who told you about him if she also told his then fiancee?
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pH
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Because the person who told me did so through anonymous Livejournal comments. I suppose I could reply to the comments again, but I doubt she's still reading them.

-pH

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Noemon
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Ah, I see; I'd thought that at some point the two of you had taken the conversation to email.
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El JT de Spang
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Or, you could check wedding registries at the likely places and call some churches that they may have gotten married at (location and denomination should be easy to figure out). Whether they did get married or are planning to, the girl deserves to know.

And don't call him again, for any reason.

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Paul Goldner
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She deserves to know.
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erosomniac
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Pearce, have you tried all the grassroots methods of attracting her attention? Put up flyers, post on Craigslist, put up a notice on any prominent local bulletin boards, put up a notice in all Planned Parenthood clinics near you (most of them are very cooperative in this regard).

It doesn't have to be caustic, threatening or anything else that would expedite such a notice being removed, just a picture with a note like "Do you know this man's wife? If so, please contact me at (anonymous e-mail address)." It may not reach her directly, but there's a good chance someone who knows her will find it. Now's the best time, since they just got married and their faces & names are prominent in the minds of those who know them.

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pH
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We've found wedding registries of theirs, but as yet no marriage certificate. I think they were planning on living in Abita Springs, so anything I do around here would probably be useless. I did email the one coworker of his that I've met, but he hasn't responded. Michael seems to have deleted his entire online presence, and I assume that if she hasn't found out by his Myspace and such before now, she probably doesn't use the Internet much at all.

Her name is SO common, too. It's frustrating! Part of me just wants to give up and let it go, but that's the part that's worried that this is me dwelling on it too much. I guess it's because in this case, revenge and doing the right thing fall neatly into the exact same action: making sure the wife is informed. So I guess that makes me worry if I'm doing this for the right reasons. But she really does need to know. And get tested. Speaking of which, the check he supposedly mailed me to cover testing still hasn't come. Fortunately, I just went ahead and had it done without waiting for said check. So if it does show up, hooray, I won't be quite so tight on money. If it doesn't, at least I'll know.

-pH

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pH
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By the way, his gifts and things have been donated. [Smile] The people seemed really happy to have all those boxes of stuffed animals and stuff, especially right at the holidays. That cheered me up today.

But I allowed myself to be a little selfish. I did not donate the Wii.

-pH

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Javert Hugo
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That sounds great, especially the stuffed animals and things. [Smile]

And I don't blame you about the Wii. [Razz] Do you play Guitar Hero? That's the one I've been hearing about.

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pH
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Augh. One of the people who could have been most helpful in finding the wife (a coworker of his) thinks that I only want to find her to get revenge.

Cutting my losses just isn't enough for me right now. I really, honestly don't feel right about having been a part of this situation, and I feel like there must be some way for me to make amends. And I think the best way would be to make sure the woman is informed.

But yeah. It's frustrating when people think you're some kind of spiteful person. I mean....she DOES deserve to know...at least, I think so. And it seems like a lot of you guys think so, as well.

I don't know. This whole situation is exhausting.

Edit: And no! I've never played guitar hero, even though many of my friends are totally addicted to it. I should give it a try sometime.

-pH

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scholar
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Ok- possibly mean, dishonest way to make sure the coworker helps you- tell the coworker that one of your tests came back positive and so you just want to make sure she knows to test for it too.
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pH
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See, that would be crossing the line for me. [Frown] I feel like then it would be vengeful. I dunno why.

-pH

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scholar
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I think it would become vengeful then because telling someone they have a disease and majorly freaking them out is mean.
But the problem is, realistically, she could have a disease. And she doesn't know to be tested. And let's say she does have a disease, when they try diagnosing, they may discount STDS because she is supposedly in a committed monogomous relationship. In this day and age, the coworker should realize that and at the very least, pass on this message.

edit to add- I wouldn't actually tell her she had a disease, but I would try to get the coworker to understand why it matters. I personally know women who don't get pap smears because they are married and have no family history. I don't think telling her is vengeance. I think it is looking out for her health.

[ November 10, 2007, 06:50 PM: Message edited by: scholar ]

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