As for why she wants to locate another terminator, that is hard to answer, since we do not know what she wants. Does she have the same programming, where the prime directive is to kill John Connor? If so, then she might have used Ellison to lead her to John Connor, instead of to locate another terminator.
Maybe she wants to supplant Skynet, and be the big boss of the machines herself. In that case, she would want to prevent the rise of Skynet, and recruit terminators to do her bidding. That would include assisting her in building more terminators, who are loyal to her. She may be aware that the later terminators had a self-destruct feature, so she wants the older models, such as Cromartie was, so she can reprogram their chips.
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Ugh. Too many scenarios. You're right, it's hard to make sense of all of this when we don't know the machines' motivations. I guess we'll have to just wait and see, and hope that all the "problems" will be explained, and are not simply things that the writers overlooked.
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"If so, then she might have used Ellison to lead her to John Connor, instead of to locate another terminator."
Except only Cromartie knew John jumped forward in time. As far as Scottish Chick knows (from police reports/news of the time period she's in), John's dead.
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See, my first thought was that they were remembering different timelines.
The one question that I would like to hear John ask Cameron is: "When you knew me in the future, did I remember you from when I was a kid?" Any reasonably curious person would have asked this by now.
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quote:Originally posted by Lisa: See, my first thought was that they were remembering different timelines.
The one question that I would like to hear John ask Cameron is: "When you knew me in the future, did I remember you from when I was a kid?" Any reasonably curious person would have asked this by now.
Good point but far from conclusive. We already know that future John doesn't tell people many of the crucial points about his past, like the identity of his father. So its entirely believable that future John might remember Cameron from his youth but keep it a secret if he felt revealing it to anyone might jeopardize his past.
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If this discussion is related to the mention of multiple timelines from Derek, I'm not entirely convinced that that is the answer for what happened to him. I think it may very well be a red herring and his memory problems may either have something to do with his capture in the episodes with the flash-forwards to the future war OR that his girlfriend is simply up to something as well.
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If Scottish Chick believes that John Connors is dead, then killing John Connors could not be her mission any more. So she must desire something else. I suggested before that maybe she wants to supplant Skynet, and wants to recruit other terminators to do her bidding.
Ellison seems to have divided loyalties. When he discovers Scottish Chick is a terminator too, he is really going to be bummed out.
Surely Ellison is aware now that Cameron is a terminator, after she threw him around. We haven't been told yet what he makes of that. Or did he find out that earlier?--I don't remember.
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quote:Originally posted by Mucus: I think it may very well be a red herring and his memory problems may either have something to do with his capture in the episodes with the flash-forwards to the future war OR that his girlfriend is simply up to something as well.
I agree with this. My brain immediately thought oh what if he's a robot. But then I remembered all the blood and guts from when he got shot.
Obviously Charlie Fischer was not just back as a reward and had been up to something. But it's not clear what the impact of his actions were.
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I got tired of referring to "the Scottish Chick" and the T-1000. (Or was that T-1001?) The name of the character in the show is Catherine Weaver. The actress is Shirley Ann Manson. She was born in Edinburgh, Scotland. She is also a musician and songwriter. See, I decided that if I am on the Internet anyway, I might as well look these things up.
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quote:Originally posted by Lisa: See, my first thought was that they were remembering different timelines.
The one question that I would like to hear John ask Cameron is: "When you knew me in the future, did I remember you from when I was a kid?" Any reasonably curious person would have asked this by now.
Good point but far from conclusive. We already know that future John doesn't tell people many of the crucial points about his past, like the identity of his father. So its entirely believable that future John might remember Cameron from his youth but keep it a secret if he felt revealing it to anyone might jeopardize his past.
I can't believe he wouldn't ask, though.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: If Scottish Chick believes that John Connors is dead, then killing John Connors could not be her mission any more. So she must desire something else. I suggested before that maybe she wants to supplant Skynet, and wants to recruit other terminators to do her bidding.
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: See, my first thought was that they were remembering different timelines.
The one question that I would like to hear John ask Cameron is: "When you knew me in the future, did I remember you from when I was a kid?" Any reasonably curious person would have asked this by now.
Good point but far from conclusive. We already know that future John doesn't tell people many of the crucial points about his past, like the identity of his father. So its entirely believable that future John might remember Cameron from his youth but keep it a secret if he felt revealing it to anyone might jeopardize his past.
I can't believe he wouldn't ask, though.
Maybe he has. Its not like the show documents every second of their existence. The real question isn't why he hasn't asked but why the writers don't think this would be an interesting part of the story.
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quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: Or he is going to ask at some point and it will be an important part of a future episode.
I think Derrick's comment about different timelines at the end of the last episode is an indication that they are going to start addressing the timeline question in the near future. Perhaps that question will play an important role but I'm hoping that some of the answers continue to remain ambiguous at least for a while.
quote: Maybe Skynet has factions
We've had several indications of that ranging from Cameron's comment to Allison in the flash forward, to the Cromartie/Ellison clone fight, to some of the Scottish Terminators stranger behaviors. I'm betting that we have that confirmed relatively soon but that it continues to remain ambiguous as to how many factions there are, what their goals are and who is on which side.
It's also evident that Jesse is up to something more than getting a rest. I wonder how long it will be before we find out what that is.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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Recently since the appearance of Ms. Weaver (Scottish Terminator) on the show, I started to think a little more about how Skynet operates in the future.
Terminator 3 Skynet is supposed to be this Super Computer that basically becomes a virus that takes over every networked machine in the world. I always wondered why the resistance did not hunt down the servers/computers that are still active, as in the future everything pretty much seems like a big mess. Since the outside world is so desolate, Skynet has to be stored on some sort of server, be it in one location or multiple locations.
I think Ms. Weaver T-1000 could be here for a number reasons:
1) She is here to study human behavior and life to better understand how we think. This is why she has a daughter and is trying to make things work with her.
2) She somehow was seperated from Skynet's Network and became a free-thinking being that wants to prevent Judgement Day. (Sort of like a Borg)
3) She wants to become the leader of Skynet and run the show in the future.
One thing is for sure, she is unlike any terminator we have seen before. She actually seems to care about her "daughter" and also seems to be able to make her own decisions. Sort of like she can reprogram herself at will. Then again we haven't seen a terminator like Cameron either. Some of the lines she has and facial expressions seem genuine. There is a difference when Cameron smiles than when Cromartie smiled. On a side note, why does Skynet want to make female terminators so darn gorgeous? First it was the girl in Terminator 3, and now Summer Glau. If I was a resistance fighter I wouldn't want to fire my gun at them!
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quote:Sort of like she can reprogram herself at will.
Wasn't that akin to the "Director's Cut" of T2, where Arnie elaborates on how his "learning computer" can learn and make decisions autonomously?
quote:On a side note, why does Skynet want to make female terminators so darn gorgeous? First it was the girl in Terminator 3, and now Summer Glau. If I was a resistance fighter I wouldn't want to fire my gun at them!
Think you answered your own question.
And, as far as looks, Summer beats Kristanna hands down in my book. Posts: 3486 | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by blindsay: 1) She is here to study human behavior and life to better understand how we think. This is why she has a daughter and is trying to make things work with her.
I'm not sure this is supported by the evidence of the show. Clearly, she needed to be in a position where she could head a tech company with resources. So she could have killed the Weavers, and is now taken over one of them.
And as for her daughter, Catherine's an infiltrator. She needs to have a normal-looking relationship with her daughter, if only to keep embarassing things like teh phot shoot from happening again. She didn't know how to do that, but a little research, and she is starting to learn how to act.
It might be an interesting plot point if acting like she loves her daughter causes her to reprogram herself, such that caring for her daughter becomes as strong in her programing as fulfilling her mission. And if she learns to mimic well enough, she could pass an emotional Turing test. Perhaps this could be a happy ending, if the humanoid robots infiltrate so deep, deeper than any mainframe could, that they program themselves into having empathy, and stop the war before it starts.
But they are making another movie, so I doubt that's feasible.
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The Sarah Connor Chronicles are in a different time line than the movies. Why do so many people have trouble remembering this?
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$$$ Spoilers for Episode from this point onwards $$$ $ $ $
I'm relatively impressed with this week's episode. Its nice to see that they really didn't throw away Cromartie as a terminator of the week and I'm glad that they actually had a plan for keeping him (the actor anyways).
On the annoying girlfriend front, I have to wonder if the creators of this show are taking a page (two actually) from JMS's playbook when it comes to annoying characters forced onto a show by network executives. I would wager at least even odds that Riley suffers a Keffer-like (B5) or Libby-like (Jeremiah) fate.
On a thoroughly superficial note, I'll add that we saw two Firefly actresses in black dresses in the last week between this and Stargate Atlantis, and both looked quite nice Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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I liked this episode a lot. Riley makes a lot more sense as a plant than as a genuine girl - I always thought it dumb that she'd give John so many chances to act kinda jerkish and still remain completely optimistic about him. I thought it was bad writing, but fits a lot better now.
I'm really intrigued by what Cameron is supposed to be like in the future, and I am REALLY pissed that the upcoming movie is not going to have Summer Glau in it.
Posts: 4136 | Registered: Aug 2008
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Since I expressed regret at Cromartie's passing before, I have to agree with Mucus. I'm glad he's b-a-a-a-a-ck! But he does not have his own chip--he has to be plugged into a mainframe computer. Maybe Catherine the terminator will change that, and build a new chip for him. If so, how will she program it? What will be his new primary mission? Serve her?
I still am most interested to see how Catherine will react when she discovers that John and Sarah Connor are still alive. Will her old programming reassert itself, and restore killing John as her primary mission? She seems almost like she has free will, now.
I am rooting for Cameron to develop real free will. Two such would really make it interesting.
But I am still concerned about the evident overabundance of terminators running around. Some of them must be from different futures than others, as the timeline keeps getting changed.
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Ok did tonight's episode seem like a total disconnection from the series? I felt lost and left with more questions then answers. I liked the story but it just seemed totally stand alone!
Posts: 176 | Registered: Jun 2008
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This episode made me really sad. I really liked the wheelchair dude character, and not only did he just die (probably never to be seen again) but it ended so abruptly. (Then again, Terminator episodes never feel long enough to me.)
I liked the answer to the unasked question "What exactly does Cameron do in her spare time?" though, and I thought the story concept was pretty clever. However, it ruins any cop-outs they might have made later when attempting to explain "So why exactly didn't Skynet just send people 100 years into the past to jumpstart the computer industry and create Skynet before anyone could have been ready?"
Previously, they could have pretended the time machine had a range of 20 years or something.
Posts: 4136 | Registered: Aug 2008
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I thought it was a great ep. I think Cameron is fascinating.
I doubt the archives guy died. It'd be too fast.
And Riley kinda sucks. On the up side, though, there was no Derek and no Jessie. That's always a big plus.
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I think the implication was that the archives night shift guy heeded Cameron's warning, and took time off to go and see his oncologist. The lady taking his shift did not say he was dead. She would have heard if that had happened.
I am not sure why Cameron attacked the terminator who had been hiding in the wall, waiting to assassinate someone. Why was this important to her? Who is the guy who was assassinated, as she remembered it from her future?
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The one part of this episode that really bothered me was Riley's line "I'm a teenage girl, we do things like that to guys we like".
Teenage girls may indeed do things like that, but they certainly don't say things like that. I'd like to know exactly how much of her story is a lie. Do you think she is actually came back from the future with Jesse?
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There was one moment when Riley seemed to be referring to an account that Jesse had given her of Judgment Day and the terminators. If Jesse had to fill her in on this, then Riley must not have come from the future. Still, it is puzzling that Riley should be so amenable to what Jesse tells her to do.
Thus far, I think that Riley is the least acceptable character in the show, second to Jesse, who has traitor written all over her.
Posts: 3742 | Registered: Dec 2001
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Least acceptable in "you don't like her?" kinda way or "She is a badly written character" kinda way?
By the way, I didn't mean to actually say the wheelchair dude died, just disappeared. I find myself hoping Cameron will seek him out and make some kind of amends. They actually have a bit in common and I could see her opening up to him, perhaps claiming she has Asperger's or something (I'm pretty sure there's a mental condition out there that's almost identical to her state).
Posts: 4136 | Registered: Aug 2008
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Don't like her. So I suppose you say that means her character is well-written. But I would prefer that the story line not include Riley or Jesse at all. We're getting too many subplots (especially with disagreeable characters), as well as too many terminators running around (it's practically "the terminator of the week" now).
Posts: 3742 | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:Don't like her. So I suppose you say that means her character is well-written. But I would prefer that the story line not include Riley or Jesse at all. We're getting too many subplots (especially with disagreeable characters), as well as too many terminators running around (it's practically "the terminator of the week" now).
Well, why not Terminator of the week? I know the movies painted a picture where Terminators in the past were rare. But if Skynet has access to the time machine, why not just send back as many terminators as it can to try and kill as much of the resistance ahead of time as it can? I've always wondered that and it never entirely made sense that Skynet didn't just wage war on the past by flooding the past world with terminators to completely wipe out humanity before we were really prepared to deal with them.
Posts: 3295 | Registered: Jun 2004
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If all you want is the story of the week, then the terminator of the week would be OK. But I want a series with an over-arching plot, which eventually leads to a reasonable resolution. So each week's episode should move us along toward that resolution of the whole epic story. Otherwise its just a soap opera with androids added in.
Posts: 3742 | Registered: Dec 2001
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I have no issue with "terminator of the week" because it's not presented as merely "story of the week with no overarching issues." You have a random terminator once every 3 episodes or so, which reinforces the idea that A) there is a constant danger the Connors are facing and B) that they are getting better at dealing with it, hence their increasing ability to dispatch them.
But at the same time you have particularly shrewd terminators like Cromartie, Catherine and yes, Cameron. (Huh, they seem to like the letter C), which provide continuous tension and storyline progression.
Jesse comment about "She's controlling him" (referring to Cameron in the future) was extremely ominous, either showcasing Cameron's deviousness or the depths of Jesse's prejudice or both. Catherine's agenda is still mysterious. I do not doubt they have very clear ideas for how this is all going to end.
I don't particularly like Riley, but I think her presence is kinda necessary for John's development. I'm currently on the fence on whether her writing is good or not. (If she IS from the future then the things she says make a lot more sense).
Posts: 4136 | Registered: Aug 2008
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Okay, every other episode that introduces an interesting side character at least comes up with a valid reason to write said side character out of the rest of the series. This one... why the hell would that girl want to raise the baby on her own? (If someone has some kind of experience raising infants in apocalyptic situations who can shed some light on possible motives, let me know).
I found this episode an interesting take on "terminator of the week," introducing and dealing with a terminator in 45 minutes but having it technically take place over 6 months, which is pretty reasonable.
I think the series is doing a good job of keeping it episodic, so that a random newcomer can enjoy the series, while still having each episode advance the main arc. I liked the intro to Jesse - I find myself liking her more after this episode.
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Amazing ep, though. And the girl who played Lauren was amazing.
I don't find myself liking Jessie any more. Maybe disliking her a trifle less, but maybe not even that.
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It's not so much that I "like" her as I find her a more interesting character. Her bizarre mannerisms amuse me.
Question though: in the new present (or future? It's unclear if the show's timeline is skipping ahead the full six months) the mother says she called Roger. Didn't Cameron kill Roger?
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I noticed that, too. I figured she must have just knocked him out. Though it seemed like she killed him.
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Just watched the scene again. Although it certainly seems to imply he was dead it wasn't explicitly clear. Seems like a weird thing to leave ambiguous though.
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The main challenge to my suspension of disbelief was how quickly the medical people came up with an injectible antidote. What did they do, just separate out Sydney's plasma from her blood and inject that? Not to mention how Derrick and Jesse started feeling better within seconds of being injected.
Posts: 3742 | Registered: Dec 2001
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That did bug me a little. I think they tried to leave the whole thing vague so we aren't really sure how long they knew about the plague. Early in the episode it seems to suggest they already had the cure before Derrek rescued the sister. I wasn't quite sure how the whole think worked but honestly I'm not sure I cared.
They didn't give any indication of how long Derrick and Jesse took to heal. I don't consider that a problem at all.
Another thing that bothers me (it feels a little silly to be critiquing the show to death when it's still one of the best things on television right now, but the better something is the more apparent it is how it falls short of being perfect) - how easily people are willing to accept the Machines from the Future thing. When the family first saw the T-888 get hurt without getting hurt, it was dark and hectic and they easily could have rationalized it as their mind playing tricks on them.
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quote:uestion though: in the new present (or future? It's unclear if the show's timeline is skipping ahead the full six months) the mother says she called Roger. Didn't Cameron kill Roger?
The mother was talking to Reese, who wasn't part of the events in the cabin in the "six months ago" part of the story. We actually saw Sarah catch the mother in the act of calling Roger, and then Roger came over to the cabin and got killed.
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The girl told Derrek they were caught because she called her friend Roger, she was covering for her mom. Her mom called him again and it lead the terminator to where they were hiding.
Posts: 1287 | Registered: Apr 2006
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But why would they be talking about it six months later? They were caught again, not just at the cabin.
Posts: 1287 | Registered: Apr 2006
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Um, you can't deliver a 34-week baby in conditions like that and have her be totally okay (not to mention HUGE). I'm willing to suspend my disbelief, but some things make that almost impossible. I found myself running through what would have really happened and then trying to figure out a reason they said it was a 34-weeker (i.e. maybe the mother miscounted, etc.). It took me out of the show, which was annoying.
Roger was the neighbor the mother was having an affair with and the father of her baby. I assumed he went back to his life since he wasn't a target for the terminator. I'd have thought Sarah would have warned all of them that the terminator would try to track them through anyone from their past. Roger should have disappeared or, barring that, changed his phone numbers, email, etc. so that the mother couldn't contact him even if she wanted to.
I assumed that the terminator killed Roger and imitated his voice to find out where the family was hiding.
Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Glenn Arnold: Covering for the fact that her mom called Roger. Yes.
Calling Roger: 1, Led the terminator to the cabin and 2, resulted in Roger's death.
I don't think so. Reese wanted to know how the triple-8 had found them 6 months after they got away. The only thing said that could possibly be answer to that was that the mom had just called Roger a few days ago.
Yes, it seems stupid that Cameron hit a possible terminator so lightly that a human could survive the blow, but that seems to be what happened.
Posts: 575 | Registered: Feb 2007
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But Derrek was asking about why they got attacked 6 months in the future, long after the events of the cabin were old news.
EDIT: Neverind, didn't realize how many people were talking about this presently.
EDIT AGAIN: Regarding the baby, I think the main issue is you can't get a real baby that's the size that a premature baby would be to appear on TV.
Posts: 4136 | Registered: Aug 2008
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I'm just copying what I ready on another forum. It may have been originally leaked and later announced or maybe the other guy was just wrong. Whatever.
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