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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Battlestar Galactica Season 4.5 Thread (Page 0)

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Author Topic: Battlestar Galactica Season 4.5 Thread
Shigosei
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Technically, that's not true. Every single one of the colonists could have left descendants. It's just that there are no direct lines of maternal descent but Hera's left in existence.
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Blayne Bradley
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i wish they wouldve left a few raptors on the moon for us to discover and glean FTW drives from. Surely a race able to reach the moon must've learned to get past its differences?
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Lisa
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Which means that we're all descendents of Carl Agathon, human, and Athena, cylon.
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Blayne Bradley
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so we are all descended from Koreans.
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ricree101
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quote:
Originally posted by Mucus:
Additionally, its even implied that Hera dies young and becomes mitochondrial eve?
*shrug*

If she really did become mitochondrial eve, she couldn't have died that young.
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Shigosei
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quote:
Surely a race able to reach the moon must've learned to get past its differences?
Not only is that not true in the colonials' experience, it isn't true in our experience either.
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Mucus
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quote:
Originally posted by ricree101:
quote:
Originally posted by Mucus:
Additionally, its even implied that Hera dies young and becomes mitochondrial eve?
*shrug*

If she really did become mitochondrial eve, she couldn't have died that young.
Maybe
http://www.beyondveg.com/nicholson-w/angel-1984/angel-1984-1a.shtml
That seems to indicate that the average lifespan was at most 30 years. (Which probably implies that most people had children a lot younger than we currently do)

So in order for that NatGeo article to say that she died as a young woman, a young woman in that era would probably be late teens or early twenties? I dunno.

Of course the whole thing can be disregarded as poetic license, the head-beings are rarely straight-forward and do lie anyways. *shrug*

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Blayne Bradley
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quote:
Originally posted by Shigosei:
quote:
Surely a race able to reach the moon must've learned to get past its differences?
Not only is that not true in the colonials' experience, it isn't true in our experience either.
I see your sarcasm detector broke down and is away for repairs.

But in any case, It would have been awesome irregardless if they had left their entire history and technology on hard disk on a raptor on the moon, surely it wouldve been protected for quite some time? They must be hardened against solar flairs and gamma bursts.

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Mucus
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A lighter-side to the BSG finale
http://io9.com/5178837/spike-and-angel-debate-the-bsg-finale

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Damien.m
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Interesting chat with Jane Espenson here.
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ReddwarfVII
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Well, since no one else has said it, I think that I will. Thanks to everyone on this forum for the debate over the years. It was a great run for a show worth discussing. An occurance which I think will become more rare for a few years. As I said earlier, all good things.....

Don't worry, I'll get the lights on the way out.

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Katarain
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I don't think that Kara randomly jumped to Earth2. She finally realized that the notes in the song could be translated to jump coordinates. I thought that was fairly obvious from the way it was filmed.

Also, I can understand how the mythology, including the names of constellations, could have been handed down generation to generation, and it makes sense that the people would look up in the sky and name new constellations with the old names. Just as the 12 gods of Kobel became the Greek gods.

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ricree101
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No new bsg tonight. It's a strange feeling.
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Carrie
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Yeah, I'm trying to figure out what to do with myself tonight.
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Lyrhawn
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quote:
Originally posted by Carrie:
Yeah, I'm trying to figure out what to do with myself tonight.

Usually I'd just watch Psych instead, but even that isn't on.

And now it's months until new Psych, new Stargate, new Caprica or BSG movie...

This is going to be one depressing movie TV wise.

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Lanfear
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I'm debating whether to just start the series over on friday nights...
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Nighthawk
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You'll just have to deal with it with Dollhouse and Terminator: Sarah Connor Chronicles.
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Nighthawk
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National Geographic cover [Big Grin]
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Carrie
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quote:
Originally posted by Nighthawk:
National Geographic cover [Big Grin]

Wouldn't we laugh if that actually happened... [Wink]

Great cover, though. Perhaps I'll post that on my LJ tomorrow and see if I can't actually pull an April Fool's. [Smile]

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Nighthawk
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Obama Depressed, Distant Since 'Battlestar Galactica' Series Finale
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Marlozhan
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From the article, Obama says:
quote:
"Our nation finds itself in uncharted territory in the deep emptiness of space," Obama announced. "The Old Girl has limited supplies, no allies, and now, no hope. I never said this would be an easy journey. Yet I promise you this: There is a place where there is no war and no economic turmoil. It is where, according to the Sacred Scrolls handed down to us by the Lords of Kobol, the thirteenth tribe traveled over three thousand years ago. That place is called Earth. Not the other Earth. This Earth. It's complicated. Anyway, I plan to take us there."
[ROFL]
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The Black Pearl
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quote:
Originally posted by Lanfear:
I'm debating whether to just start the series over on friday nights...

No Burn Notice either. I usually watch it on Hulu on fridays.

Atleast Rescue Me is coming back and Rob Thomas(Veronica Mars) has a new show.

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Lisa
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But Burn Notice will be back in June. So at least it isn't a long wait.
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Imamess
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I don't know if anyone keeps up with Bear's blog, but I found his thoughts on the last episode to be pretty interesting (even if I don't understand much of the music lingo...)

http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/?p=1760#more-1760

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Mucus
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For those also in BSG withdrawal, the last science fiction-themed CSI had Ron Moore in an awesome cameo scene (plus two other cast members in non-speaking cameos) plus the actress that plays Ellen Tigh. (Also, Corwin for those B5 fans)
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neo-dragon
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I just watched the Caprica pilot...

I am not disappointed.

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Lyrhawn
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I'll watch it when it hits Sci-Fi, but I won't make a special effort otherwise.

I'm glad to see positive reviews here on Hatrack, where I know the BSG fans have a discerning eye for quality. It gives me hope for what I though was a questionable idea.

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Lisa
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It was amazing. And chilling.
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neo-dragon
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Guess what! It's time for ANOTHER BSG "reimagining". Is nothing sacred?
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ricree101
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That... sounds like a terrible idea. I mean, counting "The Plan", the current BSG hasn't even finished yet.
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0Megabyte
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Oh dear God.

Le sigh.

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Jon Boy
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And maybe after that Bryan Singer can reboot the Superman franchise. Heaven knows it needs it after that terrible movie that came out a few years back. Oh, wait. . . .
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Dobbie
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That would have been funnier without the "Oh, wait".
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Jon Boy
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I'll be sure to remember that for next time. [Razz]
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Rakeesh
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Whoa, a reimagining already? Have any of the main cast died or even gotten mildly ill since the last season ended yet? Not only is the body not cold, it's not even a corpse yet!
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Armoth
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I just finished the series. I'm sorry I missed discussing it with all of you, but I kept this window up and read through as I advanced through the final season. It was awesome to speculate with everyone...

I stopped watching for a few years at the beginning of season 3. I finally pushed through some annoying days on New Caprica and it was worth it. One of the best series I have ever seen. I'm not just saying - "Oh, that was quality telivision" - I'm saying that it had a profound impact on me and I'm glad I watched it.

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Lyrhawn
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I'm watching it all over again after having bought the DVDs. I just finished Season 3. You know, watching it all in a rush, back to back to back, I think you actually miss some of the tension and what not that you got from having to wait week to week. On the other hand, some stuff is really easy to pick up on when you don't have to wait multiple years between events.
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Armoth
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I had the option of watching it all in a rush, but I never did. The show is entertaining, sure, but it is also supremely stressful. I had to take many breaks along the way bc I was in pain many times.
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BandoCommando
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I'd love to get the blu-ray set, but have a hard time justifying spending $250.00 on it when I can watch it on Netflix streaming for 'free'.*

* by which I mean, $11.99 a month...

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Raymond Arnold
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quote:
I had to take many breaks along the way bc I was in pain many times.
In pain from watching the series or unrelated reason?

It definitely is a stressful series. I wouldn't consider myself "in pain" ever, but between seasons we'd wait a week for new DVDs to come into the library, and the week was helpful to relax a bit before hunkering down for another marathon.

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Armoth
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From watching the series. After many deaths, or disappointed choices by some of my favorite characters...

I have a real life and it can be stressful as well, and when i sit down to watch tv, it is sometimes as an escape. But BSG is NOT an escape, it's written so well that I basically feel like I lived those characters choices and struggles and so there were many times that it was difficult to keep watching.

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Raymond Arnold
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What did really frustrate me about the show was that for the last season and a half, I basically didn't like any of the main characters anymore. I didn't necessarily HATE any of them, but none of them had any of the heroic greatness that made me love them in the beginning. And in many cases "has random creepy dreams and becomes a prophet" was used in place of character development. Often in ways that I found particularly unimaginative.

I'm not inherently opposed to the show ultimately being one where God exists and works in mysterious ways. But if so, I'd rather it be treated like the show Kings, which is actually in a lot of ways a very similar show... except it's established very early on that God exists. The rules behind him are mysterious, but in a vague "we're not going to pin down exactly how he works because hey, he's God" sort of way rather than "here's a sci-fi mystery which will eventually be resolved via deus ex machina" sort of way.

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The Black Pearl
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You didnt like Romo?
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Raymond Arnold
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He was a fun character and I think I liked him the most at the end by virtue of his character actually got BETTER instead of everyone else who got worse, but still not a hero I really rooted for.
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Lyrhawn
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quote:
Originally posted by Raymond Arnold:
What did really frustrate me about the show was that for the last season and a half, I basically didn't like any of the main characters anymore. I didn't necessarily HATE any of them, but none of them had any of the heroic greatness that made me love them in the beginning. And in many cases "has random creepy dreams and becomes a prophet" was used in place of character development. Often in ways that I found particularly unimaginative.

I'm not inherently opposed to the show ultimately being one where God exists and works in mysterious ways. But if so, I'd rather it be treated like the show Kings, which is actually in a lot of ways a very similar show... except it's established very early on that God exists. The rules behind him are mysterious, but in a vague "we're not going to pin down exactly how he works because hey, he's God" sort of way rather than "here's a sci-fi mystery which will eventually be resolved via deus ex machina" sort of way.

I don't know if that really counts as a deus ex machina. We knew from very early on that something supernatural was afoot, and that destiny and higher powers played a serious role in the series, and we knew from the end of the third season that Kara Thrace was going to play a pretty serious role in that journey. And I think we knew from the end of the third season, especially in hindsight of course, that our Earth existed, and we'd eventually get there.

All the pieces were there. We didn't put them together, but I think they make perfect sense and are perfectly in keeping with how the show ran to the point where you can't REALLY say "woah that came out of left field." What you can say was "woah that was unexpected."

I think some people are at the point where they expect television to be a binary state of evil. Either a show is totally guessable, and that's bad because it's too transparent, or a show is too unpredictable, and that's bad because it seems inexplicable. Is it really that surprising that BSG would have a surprise ending? The whole show was a huge series of twists and turns.

The characters are another matter I guess, more of a "to each his own" sort of thing. The show ended with plenty of characters that I still really loved. It only was ever going to get progressively darker, but there were enough bright spots for me to like my favorite characters still at the end. Plenty of characters changed in pretty negative ways that I didn't like from a "but I loved that guy!" perspective, but they got a lot more interesting, like Gaeta.

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The Black Pearl
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Yeah, but Lost's ending didnt come out of left field either.
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Raymond Arnold
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quote:
we knew from the end of the third season that Kara Thrace was going to play a pretty serious role in that journey
As I said, the last season and a half-ish (which means starting from middle of Season 3 was when I was particularly annoyed).

quote:
Is it really that surprising that BSG would have a surprise ending? The whole show was a huge series of twists and turns.
That wasn't surprising at all. What as surprising is that the surprise ending made no sense. For a show that was built upon extreme political drama, and ending where hundreds of sick, old, and handicapped people suddenly all decide to give up the technology that was keeping them alive was incredibly unrealistic. Let alone the thousands of other people giving up the technology that was providing comfort and a decent standard of living. Not everyone knows how to build a log cabin or hunt or farm. Or would want to.

I'd have bought that ending if the Galactica crash landed on Earth, without the ability to contact the fleet, and the change was brought about by necessity rather than choice.

I actually did like the final scene with Starbuck playing the musical song. My issue wasn't that divine manipulation was used, it was that it took over her character development for the previous season almost completely.

The main thing is that I absolutely hated hated HATED Baltar and imaginary-Six from the very beginning, they never got better, and THEY were the mechanism through which most of the divine intervention occurred. Why is God representing himself with a slutty temptress who never seems to actually give that great advice, why is He choosing this jerk as His prophet? I think it's okay for a show to have a genuinely pathetic character, but a) Baltar kept demonstrating, just often enough, that he wasn't ALWAYS pathetic it was really frustrating to see him stay that way. In the end he rescues a baby by being in the right place at the right time... but given the lengths God had to go to to get him there, and the fact that God was also manipulating other people to the same spot and they only missed the baby because Baltar got there... WTF? Serious God, what's wrong with you?

There also weren't enough episodes of Baltar demonstrating actual prowess at science. I only remember one episode where he demonstrates actual useful knowledge (something about the way explosions interact with water) where he wasn't lying through his teeth, and maybe two episodes where we saw him credibly being a good enough politician to get elected. If he's as weasely as the rest of the show makes him look, why would anyone ever trust him with anything ever?

So I guess when I saw "I have a problem with divine intervention" I really mean "I have a problem with the single worst character being the lynchpin of the entire show."

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Lyrhawn
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quote:
Originally posted by umberhulk:
Yeah, but Lost's ending didnt come out of left field either.

I stopped watching LOST in the middle of Season 3. My patience ran out. I'm told that people who kept at it were rewarded with a pretty sweet last season, and I'll get to it eventually, but they took way too long to get to the point with absolutely nothing happening in the middle.
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Lyrhawn
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quote:
Originally posted by Raymond Arnold:
quote:
we knew from the end of the third season that Kara Thrace was going to play a pretty serious role in that journey
As I said, the last season and a half-ish (which means starting from middle of Season 3 was when I was particularly annoyed).

quote:
Is it really that surprising that BSG would have a surprise ending? The whole show was a huge series of twists and turns.
That wasn't surprising at all. What as surprising is that the surprise ending made no sense. For a show that was built upon extreme political drama, and ending where hundreds of sick, old, and handicapped people suddenly all decide to give up the technology that was keeping them alive was incredibly unrealistic. Let alone the thousands of other people giving up the technology that was providing comfort and a decent standard of living. Not everyone knows how to build a log cabin or hunt or farm. Or would want to.

I'd have bought that ending if the Galactica crash landed on Earth, without the ability to contact the fleet, and the change was brought about by necessity rather than choice.

I actually did like the final scene with Starbuck playing the musical song. My issue wasn't that divine manipulation was used, it was that it took over her character development for the previous season almost completely.

The main thing is that I absolutely hated hated HATED Baltar and imaginary-Six from the very beginning, they never got better, and THEY were the mechanism through which most of the divine intervention occurred. Why is God representing himself with a slutty temptress who never seems to actually give that great advice, why is He choosing this jerk as His prophet? I think it's okay for a show to have a genuinely pathetic character, but a) Baltar kept demonstrating, just often enough, that he wasn't ALWAYS pathetic it was really frustrating to see him stay that way. In the end he rescues a baby by being in the right place at the right time... but given the lengths God had to go to to get him there, and the fact that God was also manipulating other people to the same spot and they only missed the baby because Baltar got there... WTF? Serious God, what's wrong with you?

There also weren't enough episodes of Baltar demonstrating actual prowess at science. I only remember one episode where he demonstrates actual useful knowledge (something about the way explosions interact with water) where he wasn't lying through his teeth, and maybe two episodes where we saw him credibly being a good enough politician to get elected. If he's as weasely as the rest of the show makes him look, why would anyone ever trust him with anything ever?

So I guess when I saw "I have a problem with divine intervention" I really mean "I have a problem with the single worst character being the lynchpin of the entire show."

Oh, well fair enough if you hated Baltar, I guess. I always rather enjoyed him.

And I think Baltar was the best choice of them for a variety of reasons, though, obviously Baltar wasn't the ONLY one that "God" spoke to and through. He was speaking to Caprica Six the whole time, and he gave visions to a number of people, from Sharon Agathon to the most important, Laura Roslin. Baltar wasn't the only game in town. And I suppose it would have been easiest for God to descend from on high to Adama and said "Hey, buddy, um, earth is that way. Mush!" But that would have lacked quite a bit of prose.

In the grand scheme of things, it was really about Baltar's transformation from complete skeptic and cynic to true believer, and that was a pretty long, arduous journey. He needed to be the right guy, at the right place, at the right time to give the speech he gave in the CIC, not just standing where he stood to intercept Hera.

But in general I quite enjoyed Baltar. While most of the characters on BSG are pretty unlike most other characters I've ever encountered, Baltar is even more different. He's not evil, per se, but he does such horrible things out of an overdeveloped love of self, and out of blind desperate self-preservation. And he does tons of pretty brilliant things, from charting their course to earth, to creating the Cylon detector, to curing Roslin. He doesn't do a lot of brilliant things toward the end, but he's not really wearing his "scientist" hat at that point. I think he's fascinating and unpredictable, and his various crises of faith and desire to ultimately belong somewhere make him interesting to watch.

And is it really surprising that a people that had been wiped out and systematically hunted across the galaxy for their overuse of technology would choose to give up that technology for a simpler way of life? Plot-wise, it was absolutely necessary. The whole point of "this has happened before and will happen again" is that humanity was going through a hard reboot of the system, and they had to go back to factory spec. They couldn't keep technology and hold on to everything or the cycle would be incomplete. But on a different level, I can totally see why they'd want to return to a far more basic lifestyle, and there's plenty of aspects of that in our own culture of people wanting to escape or reject technology for a simpler lifestyle. It's not exactly a foreign concept.

If you didn't care for it, then you know, to each his own, no biggie. But the things you specifically have a problem with don't really seem like major problems to me. I don't think it's perfect, and I DO sincerely wish they had made the whole thing a little more Babylon 5-like as far as planning ahead goes, and from time to time things that happened were a little out of left field, but taken as a whole I see a larger pattern, and I didn't really have a big problem with it.

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quote:
I quite enjoyed Baltar. While most of the characters on BSG are pretty unlike most other characters I've ever encountered, Baltar is even more different. He's not evil, per se, but he does such horrible things out of an overdeveloped love of self, and out of blind desperate self-preservation. And he does tons of pretty brilliant things.... I think he's fascinating and unpredictable, and his various crises of faith and desire to ultimately belong somewhere make him interesting to watch.

I think it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to imagine that Baltar is a representation of many aspects of humanity. Maybe I shouldn't be assigning allegorical implications to the show that may not have been intended by the creators of the series, but Lyrhawn's description of Baltar resonated as a rather poetic description of some of the baser impulses of humanity as a whole.
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