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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » 'Dollhouse' Whedon's newest, strangest work (Page 2)

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Author Topic: 'Dollhouse' Whedon's newest, strangest work
Noemon
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Unless it just becomes egregiously horrible (and as long as the episodes are made available on Hulu), I'll give it a season.
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El JT de Spang
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Same here.

I sat through season 1 of Buffy (all on hulu), and really didn't enjoy most of it.

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Leonide
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quote:
I think that Echo needed an anchor--
We should call it a "constant" instead and then there can be a ludicrous Lost/Dollhouse crossover in the season finale!
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The White Whale
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quote:
Originally posted by El JT de Spang:
Same here.

I sat through season 1 of Buffy (all on hulu), and really didn't enjoy most of it.

I didn't hate the first season of Buffy, but it got so much better in the following seasons. And the same with Angel (although to a lesser degree) I'm on the third season now and I care more about the characters and enjoy the episodes much more than the first season. As for Firefly, the first season, being the only season in an awesome series, made it an awesome season. I still tear up when I think of what possible future seasons of Firefly could have been like, given Joss's trend of ever-increasing seasonal quality.

So I'm actually willing to give Dollhouse at least one season and a few episodes, as long at there is clear potential throughout.

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The Pixiest
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Did anyone else think the Dollhouse was just the offices of Wolfram and Hart with a different paint job?
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Achilles
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*raises hand*
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The White Whale
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quote:
Originally posted by The Pixiest:
Did anyone else think the Dollhouse was just the offices of Wolfram and Hart with a different paint job?

No, not really.

What parts? The inside? No. The outside? I don't think so.

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Fyfe
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I know what you mean though! Has to be the same designer.
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Kwea
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I read something about that, and it was the same designer.
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The White Whale
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Hmmm...I'll have to watch it again.
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Mrs.M
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I think what Eliza Dushku particularly needs is voice coaching. Her voice itself is a little bit harsh and the only way she seems to act with it is to change the volume.

I like those bed things. Maybe it's a new mom of twins thing, but they looked so comfortable and peaceful.

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Kwea
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Actually, I didn't read it, Joss said it during one of the joint interviews they had with him and Eliza Dushku.

I like her husky, bedroom voice. [Wink]

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Shigosei
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I figured out a possible reason for the odd bedroom system. They could be overlooked if the dollhouse were raided at night, thus protecting the actives from capture.
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Teshi
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It's still an inefficient way of storing them.
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Alcon
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I liked it. It fell a little flat, but Whedon's pilots always do. I think Dushku can grow into the role. I liked her handler, I liked seeing Helo return in a new character, I liked the owners of the Dollhouse. I liked how they were convinced and how they could easily go either way -- good guy or bad guy. I liked the tech, though he reminded me disturbingly of Warren from Buffy (I don't think it was the same actor). I'll give it a season, doesn't hurt and it might be good.

The people saying Whedon's traditional ironic human is missing are right though. It was almost completely lacking. Again, it often is lacking from his pilots though.

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Vadon
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Very Condensed Opinion:

I think that episode went better than the pilot. It's still not great, but I'm starting to feel intrigued. (Something I wasn't feeling from the pilot)

I'll keep watching.

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Noemon
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How soon after shows air do they go up on Hulu, typically?
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Lyrhawn
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I think it varies from show to show. For BSG, I know they've been putting them up pretty close to midnight after they aired, but that was only for the first five episodes of the last half of this season. The last five won't appear on there until after 8 days have gone by.
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Leonide
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I think this episode was marginally more intriguing, but i'm still annoyed with the narrative tactics, the process of revealing the story, and the character development. and the dialogue is still CLUNKY!
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Sala
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Did anyone else have their signal disappear toward the end of the episode? I don't know what happened from the point Echo's handler got shot. Can someone tell me what happened? (Put up a spoiler warning for those who didn't see.)
~Sala

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ladyday
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SPOILERS
TwP recaplet

Boyd is shot in the side and losing large amounts of blood. They stand out in the open for some time, having a drawn out conversation, instead of hiding (???) but what's important here is that Boyd told Echo the trigger words (everything is going to be alright) and she doesn't respond the way she's supposed to (now that you're here). Instead, she points out the obvious, then goes to kill the bad guy, despite Boyd's protests that she doesn't have the right imprint, oops I mean training. She looks confused for a second (more confused than usual) but shoots back by asking Boyd if he trusts her. He says 'with my life'. Echo finds the bad guy and eventually stabs him to death with his own arrow, after some trash talk and a fight.

Back at the dollhouse, Echo's imprint and memories are wiped. She encounters Laurence on her way out, and he says some kind of mean/stupid things to her, about putting her in the attic and such, which she responds to with a blank stare and an announcement that she is going to go swimming in the pool now. Then, when his back is turned, she makes the grabbing shoulder gesture that she learned on her mission. Dun dun dun...

In the Dr's office, Doc and Boyd chat over the dead body of the fake ranger. Boyd explains that he didn't intend for the ranger to die, and Doc points out that he missed the major arteries when he shot the ranger in the leg. They both observe how the ranger really died - knife wounds, exactly like Alpha's other victims. Doc states that this is impossible because Alpha was hunted down and killed, but Boyd argues that the people in charge probably lied about that.

Speaking of people in charge, Adelle rants to Lawrence about the fact that their background checks are worthless if they don't catch things like 'raging psychopath'. Lawrence explains that the bad guy's entire background, from birth on up, was completely fabricated, and they've never seen something this involved.

I didn't get the order of events right, but that's basically what happened.

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Raymond Arnold
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This episode started to remind me of Red vs Blue, Reconstruction. Partly just because they use the word "Alpha" but the context seemed fairly similar as well, with all these fragments of artificial personalities getting chucked around. I assume Alpha is a composite of several personalities that went haywire.

quote:
Originally posted by Sala:
Did anyone else have their signal disappear toward the end of the episode? I don't know what happened from the point Echo's handler got shot. Can someone tell me what happened? (Put up a spoiler warning for those who didn't see.)
~Sala

You can watch episodes on both Hulu.com and Fox.com the day after. (I think they go up at 5 AM)

"I have four brothers. None of them are democrats."

Made me laugh.

[ February 21, 2009, 01:55 PM: Message edited by: Raymond Arnold ]

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Carrie
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quote:
Originally posted by Alcon:
... I liked seeing Helo return in a new character...

Really? Because we were pretty sure it was still Helo, just in a suit. No new character there. [Smile]

I think we're just going to keep watching it for now - but when it goes up against the BSG finale, well, priorities will rule.

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Leonide
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Alpha, Echo? Where are Bravo, Charlie, and Delta?

edit: ooh, and I forgot about Sierra! My theory is confirmed! [Smile]

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the_Somalian
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Lasagna Girl is an Active.
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Sala
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Ladyday and Raymond, Thanks!!!!! [Big Grin]
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El JT de Spang
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quote:
Originally posted by Leonide:
Alpha, Echo? Where are Bravo, Charlie, and Delta?

edit: ooh, and I forgot about Sierra! My theory is confirmed! [Smile]

I thought from the first time they called her 'Echo' it was supposed to be obvious the Actives had military codenames.
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Raymond Arnold
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I had assumed Echo was intended to showcase her "echoing" various personalities and that Alpha was just the first one (still experimental).
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Nighthawk
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quote:
Originally posted by El JT de Spang:
quote:
Originally posted by Leonide:
Alpha, Echo? Where are Bravo, Charlie, and Delta?

edit: ooh, and I forgot about Sierra! My theory is confirmed! [Smile]

I thought from the first time they called her 'Echo' it was supposed to be obvious the Actives had military codenames.
Want confirmation? Go to the source... IMDB:

quote:
All of the names of the girls used in the Dollhouse are named after the NATO phonetic alphabet (Echo, Sierra).

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Lisa
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"Exuberant price"? I think she meant "exorbinant".

And Nighthawk, those comments on IMdb are hardly a reliable source. They're about the same as someone here saying so. But it's clearly true. And I think we'll find that except for Echo and Alpha, most of the Actives are near the end of the alphabet, because Alpha killed the early ones.

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TheGrimace
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I thought it was an ok episode, and I appreciated the background info that I'm sure will lead somewhere fascinating. I will say that this episode struck me more than the first as lacking the magic that I expect from Joss. It wasn't bad, it just didn't seem fantastic [Frown] Also, I just kept having flashbacks to the old Fantasy Island episode with the hunting of humans... I guess it's hard to do much terribly different with such an iconic topic.

As for Exuberant, exorbitant would have made more sense, but exuberant could work in this context, just with a somewhat odd feel to it.

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Goody Scrivener
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Jason Bourne... thank you to whoever mentioned him first. I was trying to recall what movie had the same general premise. I remembered The Pretender, I'd never seen Alias, but I knew there was something else out there that felt very similar with the whole imprinting thing.

I'm still reserving judgment. I watched the first two episodes back to back on Hulu and I'm not quite sure what's going on yet.

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Scott R
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The second episode was worlds better than the pilot.

Whedon's series have always been ensemble affairs with quirky characters doing and saying quirky things in quirky settings. There's really none of that in Dollhouse; the only quirky person is the neuro-technician or whatever; and Echo cannot be said to even have a personality of her own.

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The Pixiest
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott R:
The second episode was worlds better than the pilot.

Agreed! In spades!

quote:

and Echo cannot be said to even have a personality of her own.

Yet.
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Jeorge
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quote:
Originally posted by The Pixiest:

quote:

and Echo cannot be said to even have a personality of her own.

Yet.
Agreed. I think we'll see more and more that she has fleeting memories of things she shouldn't remember, and along with those memories we'll start to see a single personality (which is her own personality) breaking through, trying to decipher what's happening.
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The White Whale
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Is it just me or in one of the scenes where she gets wiped, there's a brief shot, if I remember, from the POV of a baby being lifted out of a crib by (I assume) a mother. I think that was in the second episode.

That seems to me like a nice little, brief, hint to some of the problems (and plot developments) that might develop later in the series.

Can any one second my memory?

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Achilles
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Nope. You must've been wiped.
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Darth_Mauve
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Plot Conspiracy Theory #Q.

Everyone except Neuro-Tech is an active.

Boss Lady--Active who is created to be the best Boss Lady.

Lead Security--Active who is created to be the best in security.

FBI Agent mindlessly chasing them--is an Active.

Echo's Handler--is an active.

etc. etc.

My only proof--Two most important people in the place are having a high level discussion in expensive suits, and Neuro-Tech guy interrupts them, and they don't question him. He gets to dress casual, and seems to be the only one who touches the equipment. Even when Alpha went on a slice and dice spree--he couldn't touch Neuro-Tech guy. That's because of conditioning #1 commandment--thou shall not hurt Neuro-Tech guy.

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Shigosei
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quote:
Is it just me or in one of the scenes where she gets wiped, there's a brief shot, if I remember, from the POV of a baby being lifted out of a crib by (I assume) a mother. I think that was in the second episode.

That seems to me like a nice little, brief, hint to some of the problems (and plot developments) that might develop later in the series.

Can any one second my memory?

I caught that during the very first wipe that they showed. I had thought that this was the first time they wiped her memory, but it might be due to them using complete personalities -- maybe the baby memory was from the imprint.
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Noemon
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Dan, I love that theory. If that's what Joss has done it's a little Blade Runnerish, but I think that Philip K Dick would approve.
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mr_porteiro_head
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quote:
Even when Alpha went on a slice and dice spree--he couldn't touch Neuro-Tech guy.
Neuro-Tech Guy didn't seem too confident, and kept asking for a gun of his own.
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Nighthawk
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quote:
Neuro-Tech Guy didn't seem too confident, and kept asking for a gun of his own.
If everyone else is storming through with weapons, and making no apparent effort to protect me or get me to safety, damn straight I'd want a weapon too.
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mr_porteiro_head
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Not if you don't feel that you're in any danger from the threat.
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Vadon
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Could be that Alpha went hay-wire to the point that even tech-guy was afraid. Ultimately the conditioning worked, but you could understand him thinking it might not work so well for him.
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mr_porteiro_head
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Yeah. When the robot is blatantly disregarding laws 2 and 3, law #1 doesn't seem so secure anymore.
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The Pixiest
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As an aside... Amy Acker is still beautiful even with scars.
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mr_porteiro_head
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*nod*

And water is still wet. [Wink]

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Noemon
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quote:
Originally posted by Nighthawk:
quote:
Neuro-Tech Guy didn't seem too confident, and kept asking for a gun of his own.
If everyone else is storming through with weapons, and making no apparent effort to protect me or get me to safety, damn straight I'd want a weapon too.
More damning to the theory, though, is the fact that he wasn't given one after voicing his request the first time.
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Mucus
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Maybe the Neuro-Tech is a Cylon ...
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Darth_Mauve
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Mucus wins the thread.
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