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First impression: wow, Alan Tudyk has really put on some muscle since Firefly! They certainly got him into doll shape...
Second, shouldn't Ballard be noticing these things? Despite his knowledge of dollhouse he doesn't even question the beautiful neighbor who's always making him food and can break necks at the drop of a hat until it's blatantly shoved in his face. Now, he meets up with a pothead who never goes out and drinks his own urine, but is somehow built like an athlete, and doesn't even question it, he's so focused on "save Caroline!" Anyone else think he's not the smartest cookie in the jar? (especially since his entire job is supposedly putting together small clues)
I enjoyed some of the quick references to other sci-fi shows of similar nature in this episode. At one point, Topher says "frak!" (a reference to BSG), and at another, Adelle briefly mentions visiting "the Centre". (a pretty blatant reference to The Pretender)
Show's getting better, really liked some of the personal touches in the last few episodes, made the characters a bit more human.
Posts: 2222 | Registered: Dec 2008
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Well, the way the "Russian" assassin was killed in Ballard's apartment -- neck snapped after head rammed into coffee table during struggle -- could have been an accident, and he had no reason to think it wasn't until later. And Tudyk did not look muscular until a) he put on the skin tight clothing and b) started carrying himself like Alpha. Initially he looked like a stoner. Then he put the clothes on and you could tell he was in decent shape, but didn't look especially ripped. Then he appeared in front of Dr. Saunders, and he was both powerful and menacing.
Tudyk himself said he has a Ned Flanders sort of body, you don't notice the muscle right away.
Also, the BSG reference? Possibly because the episode was written by Jane Espenson, one of the BSG writers Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
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I like that the Frak actually made sense in context, since it's perfectly reasonable to assume Topher HAS seen BSG and has simply adopted the use of the word for himself (I've done that with some shows I like)
Posts: 4136 | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: It's also possible that Topher merely imprinted his own personality into Alpha during one of the testing stages. Topher obviously DOES think so highly of himself that I wouldn't put it past him to assume his level of brilliance was clearly something worth experimenting with.
I think that's obviously the case. Topher was affected by the drug, so he can't be an active. But Alpha seems to be the sum of all his imprints. For some reason, despite the wiping, he has access to every imprint that was applied to him, including Topher's. Either that drove him maniac-crazy, or one of the imprints was a wacko, but either way, it makes him extremely dangerous. Imagine Echo with the combined skills and instabilities of just all the imprints we've seen her get this season.
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General consensus on Whedonesque is that Alpha was, at some point, one of Topher's birthday buddies, imprinted by Topher with Topher.
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Chris: I guess so, but still... he's put on at least 20 pounds since Firefly. As soon as he put on the doll outfit I was thinking "no way this guy is who he claims to be."
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Chris - That's what I was thinking! I only wondered because Sierra as birthday buddy didn't have all the same mannerisms, just all the same interests.
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Speaking of which, you look like you put on some muscle for the part. TUDYK: Yes, because they cast a damn body double that looks like the Hulk! Joss showed me the first episode where you see Alpha from behind and I was like, "Oh my God. I've got a lot of work to do." But I have a Ned Flanders kind of body. When I'm wearing baggy clothes you wouldn't expect that I have any muscle. Just like in tonight's episode. I don't look too wildly in shape at first. It's when I put on the tight shirt that you see it.
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quote:Originally posted by Chris Bridges: General consensus on Whedonesque is that Alpha was, at some point, one of Topher's birthday buddies, imprinted by Topher with Topher.
Chekov's gun? Hmm... I guess that makes sense.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Sierra didn't quite seem like a Topher clone, but I could definitely see him trying out a direct clone of himself as one of his earlier birthday buddies.
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quote:Sierra didn't quite seem like a Topher clone...
I wouldn't want a direct clone of myself, either - I'd drive myself mad.
Topher has already shown that he can combine personalities; perhaps in Alpha's case he simply combined the wrong ones.
Posts: 3486 | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by The White Whale: Alright, I've watched it again and I think you're right. Does Alpha then have a bunch of imprints that he can utilize? If he does, and he has Topher's imprint (that means that Topher is an active)...wow. Who's not an active?
Fyfe, you're right. Once you notice, it is unmistakable.
It could explain Topher's fear of the chair. Someone (maybe Alpha, maybe not) builds a tech master imprint that includes a fear of his own tech just to make sure he's never in a position to get wiped or reprinted.
With regard to that psych drug from the college campus... I seem to recall Echo, Victor and Sierra all reacted, although later than "normal" people.
Edit because I just had a wild idea...
Topher is a doll. A sleeper like Mellie, perhaps, but still a doll. The annual "diagnostic" testing that he did with Sierra is actually a diagnostic for Adelle, etc. to see how well Topher is holding up as compared to the original personality. We've already gotten indications that Adelle, while apparently in control of the LA House, reports to a higher power somewhere. I don't think that was just a cover story to have a weekend tryst with the Roger personality in the beachhouse. Therefore, a diagnostic like this would allow those overseers to monitor Topher's adjustment as well.
Which makes me wonder... Topher said that the dolls didn't react because of the mindscrub process. I don't remember the exact details, but he credited the wipe and imprint sequence as their protection. If Topher is a sleeper, he's had the same personality imprint for a while. Maybe that duration caused him to lose some of his "immunity". I wonder how Mellie would have reacted if she'd been on campus.
quote:Originally posted by Goody Scrivener: With regard to that psych drug from the college campus... I seem to recall Echo, Victor and Sierra all reacted, although later than "normal" people.
But not like normal people. Normal people went loopy. Echo, Victor and Sierra all started flashing back to old imprints.
Topher and DeWitt reacted like everyone else.
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I think they really have exhausted the pool of potential surprise dolls at this point. It's not an interesting reveal anymore, anyway Posts: 1539 | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Puppy: I think they really have exhausted the pool of potential surprise dolls at this point. It's not an interesting reveal anymore, anyway
Now they need to do the opposite. Someone who we think is a doll, but really isn't.
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quote:Originally posted by Puppy: I think they really have exhausted the pool of potential surprise dolls at this point. It's not an interesting reveal anymore, anyway
Except for the Doctor, who I'm 99.9% sure is a doll, but that hasn't been revealed yet. I went back and watched 'Echos' where the drug showed who was and wasn't an active, and Amy Acker did not make an appearance.
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I also remember there being a scene a couple episodes back where someone asked Acker whether or not she even leaves the Dollhouse. There wasn't a conclusive answer, if I recall correctly.
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Actually, between Fyfe's observation and a few key lines in past episodes, it's obvious now that Alpha has some connection with Topher. Most likely Alpha was imprinted with Topher at some point.
The reason I say that is, remember the episode where Echo was remote wiped. When they were discussing who was capable of doing it, I think it may have been Topher who said that only he or Alpha would have been able to figure it out. Now why would Topher think that Alpha could match him? We've all seen how prideful Topher is (and rightly so), so naturally, the only person aside from himself that he could believe capable... is a copy of himself. Though maybe it was Dewitt that suggested Alpha, but still.
That might also help to explain why Topher also remained untouched when Alpha went on his initial rampage.
I really like the idea about Alpha being the subject of an earlier calibration. I think that these last 2 episodes coming back to back tells us that Whedon wants us to see this connection (Though I think real credit goes to Fyfe on this one, cause I never would have put this together if it hadn't already been pointed out) or at the very least, wants to look back and realize that it was always there (more likely I think).
In any case, I think we can make a good case that Alpha was the "Inside man" that imprinted the secret message in Echo and November in order to get Ballard to take him into the Dollhouse and divert Boyd. If he has Topher's skills, then I don't think it would be beyond him, even if he had to do it remotely.
I don't think it would be a good idea for Topher to end up being an Active. It's bad form to straight out lie to the audience by making exceptions to your own rules. If they say the drug only affected non-Actives, then that should (ideally) be taken at face value.
Posts: 636 | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by sylvrdragon: In any case, I think we can make a good case that Alpha was the "Inside man" that imprinted the secret message in Echo and November in order to get Ballard to take him into the Dollhouse and divert Boyd. If he has Topher's skills, then I don't think it would be beyond him, even if he had to do it remotely.
The trouble with this is that we saw a scene with Alpha mailing the picture/video of alpha to Ballard, yet when Millie/November is talking with Ballard she states that the inside man did not send the envelopes. So unless he imprinted her to lie about that (and it doesn't seem like there is any reason for that) it's a no-go.
Also, my guess (though admittedly it's just a guess) is that Alpha needed Ballard to lead him back to the Dollhouse because he had forgotten where it was. Or perhaps he was just bringing Ballard there to distract security while he went for Echo.
Additionally, when re-watching the episode where they catch Dominic, and there's still points of confusion/error that are bugging me..
1) Dominic claims that the chip is NSA tech, but makes no claims that he has been using it. He claims that he's been honest about his methods, and that he's only worked to protect the Dollhouse. The usages of the chip that we've seen haven't seemed to be in-line with Dominic's stated goals or claims to have been honest about his methods. but then why would he claim the chip was NSA?
2) It's questionable whether Millie's corrupted imprint was performed after the chip was removed. Though I guess I could chalk this up to time compression or something and say that Topher discovered it immediately after imprinting her (but then wouldn't he have tried holding off on letting her go?).
The basic conundrum here is whether or not Dominic was actually using the chip or if he's covering for someone else for some reason.
We have plenty of candidates who could have implanted/used it for various reasons, but Dominic just doesn't seem right.
Posts: 1038 | Registered: Feb 2006
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It's possible that after the Alpha attack, they moved the Dollhouse to a different location so that he wouldn't be able to find his way back. As a safety precaution. And he dangled Ballard in front of the Dollhouse to get them to slip up enough so that he could get their location.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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I thought the NSA chip was planted by Dominic and had nothing to do with Millie's secret reveal.
Doesn't sound likely they moved the location. It does sound odd that Alpha didn't know where it was. At the least Ballard was a useful sidekick for him to get in and out with little detection. Seems like a lot of effort to slowly entice Ballard with enough information to finally find it.
Posts: 1261 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Yay for Whedon et al. I think they did a great job with this first season, especially once Fox let them off their leash. It looks to be exiting, unique, quirky, and entertaining (provided it's not canceled).
I'm liking the idea of Alpha viewing himself as a ubermensch, with a hard core schizophrenia of his several dozen personalities. I like the idea of Ballard 'working' for the Dollhouse. I'm sure he's still going to try and take it down, but it'll be interesting to see how he handles it, and how Adelle handles him. I'm liking Dr. Saunders' / Whiskey's self-awareness as a doll, and look forward to see how that develops, along with her and Topher's relationship.
I think the show has proven it's potential, and just hope that Fox sees that.
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I loved Alpha's acting, and actually was kinda impressed with Echo's acting as well. There were a few moments where you saw her shift personalities and I was surprised that I could recognized.
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I'm not sure how I felt about this episode. Somehow it made Alpha less scary to me. I did like Whiskey's self-awareness.
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I found it a little jarring that Alpha suddenly had trouble keeping his personalities in check when in the very last episode he spent quite a good chunk of time pretending to be the building designer guy, and pulling it off perfectly.
Other than that, I really enjoyed it. I've always liked Whiskey and I'm really glad to see her character developing.
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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If there is a second season, I'm wondering how/if we'll see November anymore. I hope it's something more than Ballard stalking her and hitting on her every chance he gets.
And the first scene where Whiskey is giving the captive a lap dance... that was way more hot than anything Echo could have done. Posts: 3486 | Registered: Sep 2002
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I think that Alpha had trouble in last night's episode keeping the personalities straight because he was not really trying with Echo. Echo was his soulmate, he figured he did not need to keep up appearances with her, he could just relax and be himself.
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quote:Originally posted by twinky: I found it a little jarring that Alpha suddenly had trouble keeping his personalities in check when in the very last episode he spent quite a good chunk of time pretending to be the building designer guy, and pulling it off perfectly.
I kind of assumed that he wasn't really going out in public and interacting with people, so that there wasn't much stress put on his keeping the personalities straight.
See also: certain copious amounts of medicinal plants. Posts: 3932 | Registered: Sep 1999
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Hope the Fox folks looking at the ratings will take into account the new Star Trek movie just opening...
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I'm guessing that Topher and Whiskey's original personality knew each other. Or why would he have answered her that way when she asked why he programmed her to hate him?
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If they're renewing dollhouse it feels hypocritical to not renew Terminator - it ended with *slightly* better ratings and has a motion picture to help bring in more. Unless they seriously are just trying to make amends with the Whedonite community.
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Ah. I guess I can see that. That definitely was one of Terminator's major issues (especially given the finale's set up for season 3).
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Dollhouse is also expected to perform much stronger in DVD sales and tie-in stuff, though how on Earth they calculate that with any degree of certainty I'll never know.
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I'm thinking they are basing on the DVD sales v. ratings of Firefly, Angel and Buffy. Though that would be a pretty stupid basis, because the shows are way too different, still that is my guess for why they expect such high DVD sales.
Posts: 2332 | Registered: Jul 2003
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Terminator already got a second season and ratings still went down, and FOX knows how sales on the 1st season DVD did. It's not the same thing at all.
Presales on the Dollhouse DVD were strong, streaming and DVR numbers were excellent, and when he filmed a 13th episode in a couple of days with half the budget (which will be on the DVD) Joss demonstrated he could make good shows more cheaply. The demo for FOX execs was the 13th ep and Joss' pitch for the different direction of the 2nd season.
Also, while ratings weren't great, they weren't any worse than other FOX shows they've run on Friday nights and since the set's already been built, new shows of Dollhouse would be cheaper than starting a new one fresh (a reduced budget was apparently part of the deal). Positive buzz from the renewal and Joss' fan base may help pump up numbers next year.
Probably didn't hurt that Dollhouse fans helped break the FOX customer service phone bank Friday Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
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The Pixiest, you were right. My first link had the story that Fox was leaning towards giving a second season. Now both links (yours and mine) are the same, saying that it had granted a second season.
Sorry for being snippy. Strange shifting URLs.
Posts: 1711 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Terminator already got a second season and ratings still went down, and FOX knows how sales on the 1st season DVD did. It's not the same thing at all.
Terminator ratings have remained pretty constant the whole time. When it was moved to a Friday slot, the ratings went down exactly the same amount you'd expect any show to go down when moved to Friday, and the DVRs were similar to Dollhouse. I have no idea what the Season 2 preorder numbers look like though. (It doesn't surprise me that Season 1 didn't sell that well because Season 2 was there the show really picked up, IMO).
Posts: 4136 | Registered: Aug 2008
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Oh hooray! I am so pleased - I was completely expecting Dollhouse to be canceled, and my other show too, Better Off Ted, and instead they have BOTH been renewed!
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