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Author Topic: Lost Season 6
The Rabbit
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quote:
Well, Christian definitely said that they all made the alt-world. So without some rationale for dismissing what he said, I'm not sure how we can say it was just Hugo's doing.
You added a "just". It was never my intent to suggest it was "just" Hugo's doing.

Christian said that the all made the alt-world SO that they could find each other. Stating a purpose indicates it was something done purposefully but since they were all separated before the idea was conceived, I had to ask how they devised and implemented such a plan.

Since Hugo could talk to dead people, he offers the most obvious solution to the problem. I don't think Hugo being the instigator and facilitator of the alt-world precludes all of them working together to make it.

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Pepek
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Island? Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory? - Same thing.
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Leonide
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Like most of you, I appreciated the emotional closure we got on the majority of the Big Romantic Relationships. I cried boatloads over Charlie/Claire and Juliet/Sawyer. But, ultimately, this show just did not do it for me. And I do mean the whole show.

I have so many issues with this ending. It was too pat and, I think, patronizingly sweet and perfect. The flashbacks/forwards in the early seasons had purpose, and meaning within a narrative we'd come to understand and buy into. The Flashways/Ahead-Into-PerfectHappyWorld had none of that.

A couple of you have said that it was so nice to see that everyone ended up with their true loves in the end, in this constructed universe not unlike Heaven. But if we're to assume that Lapidus, Miles, Sawyer, Kate, Richard, and Claire actually flew that plane right off the Island and into the sunset, then we're to assume they lived the rest of their lives. Maybe not to a ripe old age, but they continued on past the Island story-arc. Now, I'll accept that the Island was the most important thing for the majority of the people in The Church at the end (especially those, obviously, who died/were killed there) but did Claire, Kate and Sawyer really never love again in their entire lives? Was nothing so important in their entire existences that it overshadowed the Island for them, or the loves lost there? Kate even says "I've been waiting for you for so long" (even though there's no concept of the passage of time in the HeavenWorld) which presumes she lived pretty long, and was waiting the whole time to see Jack again. Guess none of the lessons from her time on the Island sunk in all that much, since she spent the rest of her life tied to the past, the exact OPPOSITE of the moral the show tried to impart.

And if they created this reality in order for them all to meet again when it was "time to leave" (which kind of shoots down any assumptions of the reunited couples living together forever, since the moment of realization (or at least Jack's) coincided with it being time to vamoose on to the next stage...) why the repetitive narratives? Why, in this world that they've created, are they still acting out the same old patterns until they Die/Wake Up? Wasn't that the purpose of the Island in the first place? They learn their lessons, and then through a metaphysical crack in time/space they all reconnect again at the collective yet separate moments of their deaths?

What is alt-time?! The incidents "before" they wake up (aka the preparations for the concert, Desmond's machinations, Sawyer arresting Kate/Sayid, the shootings, etc.) shouldn't even exist, as they indicate a passage of time after death, but before "waking up" which shouldn't exist in the pseudo-explanation that was given at the end by Christian. There is no Now, there is no Before or Since, just everything at once. If that's accurate, then why would they all create a scenario where they replay all their old issues, even temporarily? It was just confusing, and misleading, almost as if this entire season was just a drawn out re-enactment of the Sun Giving Birth to Ji Yeon episode, with alt-time being Jin searching frantically for a stuffed animal. What ultimately mattered was Sun's emotional connection to someone she'd loved and lost, and what didn't matter at all and, in fact, what was insulting to the audience and completely erroneous, was that one time Jin tried to impress his boss with a toy.

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Craig Childs
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Count me in the group that feels angry and let-down.

Perhaps the problem is that, to the writers and a certain segment of fans, it was all about the characters and their redemption arcs (although even that was done poorly, imo, with a trite "they-finally-get-it-right-in-Heaven" plot twist).

But I know for me, my family, and friends who watched the show, the characters became secondary to the mysteries of the Island somewhere in Season 3. For one, the show began to unceremoniously dump certain characters like Walt and Libby, which taught the audience that characters were expendable in this universe. Don't fall in love with them. They die regularly to advance the storyline.

Second, the mythology became so vast and complex (Dharma, time travel, Ben/Widmore feud, Smoke Monster, Jacob's cabin, etc.) that it overwhelmed the characters. Who cares if Jack ends up with Kate or Juliet? Or if Sawyer finds peace? Or if Hurley ever gets his mojo back? Not when you have time travel paradoxes, mythological immortals battling for 2000 years, unlucky numbers, ties to ancient lost civilizations, and children with psychic powers.

Let's face it. Without the island, Lost was just another soap opera. It was the mysteries and the mythology that made the show stand apart. Maybe that's not what the writers wanted the show to be about, but it's what it became. Perhaps the writers just oversold the mileau when they didn't mean to.

The Sideways Universe was a bad idea-- and not just because it turned out to be Heaven. The characters in the SIdeways world were so different than the characters on the island--Sawyer a cop? Hurley a confident businessman?-- it was almost like watching the actors play different people on another tv show. Like seeing "Juliet" on V or "Penny" on Flashforward. I heard all my friends say over and over this year "I love the island story, but who cares about the boring sideways universe."

Season 6 should have shown "flashbacks" that detiled important events throughout the history of the island from MIB or Jacob's perspective. Something that could have given us a unified theory that at least tried to make sense and perhaps lent subtext and irony to everything that was happening/had happened to our main characters.

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Craig Childs
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Count me in the group that feels angry and let-down.

Perhaps the problem is that, to the writers and a certain segment of fans, it was all about the characters and their redemption arcs (although even that was done poorly, imo, with a trite "they-finally-get-it-right-in-Heaven" plot twist).

But I know for me, my family, and friends who watched the show, the characters became secondary to the mysteries of the Island somewhere in Season 3. For one, the show began to unceremoniously dump certain characters like Walt and Libby, which taught the audience that characters were expendable in this universe. Don't fall in love with them. They die regularly to advance the storyline.

Second, the mythology became so vast and complex (Dharma, time travel, Ben/Widmore feud, Smoke Monster, Jacob's cabin, etc.) that it overwhelmed the characters. Who cares if Jack ends up with Kate or Juliet? Or if Sawyer finds peace? Or if Hurley ever gets his mojo back? Not when you have time travel paradoxes, mythological immortals battling for 2000 years, unlucky numbers, ties to ancient lost civilizations, and children with psychic powers.

Let's face it. Without the island, Lost was just another soap opera. It was the mysteries and the mythology that made the show stand apart. Maybe that's not what the writers wanted the show to be about, but it's what it became. Perhaps the writers just oversold the mileau when they didn't mean to.

The Sideways Universe was a bad idea-- and not just because it turned out to be Heaven. The characters in the SIdeways world were so different than the characters on the island--Sawyer a cop? Hurley a confident businessman?-- it was almost like watching the actors play different people on another tv show. Like seeing "Juliet" on V or "Penny" on Flashforward. I heard all my friends say over and over this year "I love the island story, but who cares about the boring sideways universe."

Season 6 should have shown "flashbacks" that detiled important events throughout the history of the island from MIB or Jacob's perspective. Something that could have given us a unified theory that at least tried to make sense and perhaps lent subtext and irony to everything that was happening/had happened to our main characters.

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Tammy
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I'm okay with the ending...because it ended. It's over. It's done. It has no hold on me now.


I can forget about it now.

It's done.

Over.

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Armoth
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quote:
Originally posted by Craig Childs:

Second, the mythology became so vast and complex (Dharma, time travel, Ben/Widmore feud, Smoke Monster, Jacob's cabin, etc.) that it overwhelmed the characters. Who cares if Jack ends up with Kate or Juliet? Or if Sawyer finds peace? Or if Hurley ever gets his mojo back? Not when you have time travel paradoxes, mythological immortals battling for 2000 years, unlucky numbers, ties to ancient lost civilizations, and children with psychic powers.


Great job articulating exactly what I felt. I feel unfulfilled about all those great epic parts of the storyline. What are all the glyphs? Temples? Statues and gods?
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Herblay
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quote:
Originally posted by Craig Childs:

Season 6 should have shown "flashbacks" that detiled important events throughout the history of the island from MIB or Jacob's perspective. Something that could have given us a unified theory that at least tried to make sense and perhaps lent subtext and irony to everything that was happening/had happened to our main characters.

Good argument. Certainly Heroes was a success by having plot become more important than character development.

Cuse and Lindelof understand the most important thing about good drama, something that masters like J.J. Abrams, Bryan Fuller, Bryan Singer, Joss Whedon, and Rob Thomas all understand -- character comes first.

When a creator lets the "milieu" become more important than the people living in the world, people (the audience) won't care. Heroes is the penultimate example. And Lost is a great example of a well rounded show -- characters as the foundation, intriguing and (relatively) consistent mythology, and vision unrestricted by bureaucrats in the network.

To give away the "magic" of the island would have cheapened it. Like BSG, giving away the mystique would seem silly (Eden, Atlantis, egyptian magic, aliens, whatever). Keeping the mystery allowed the dignity to remain.

Great finale!

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Launchywiggin
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Loved it--and I LOVE the internet age, which allows me to watch my shows on hulu, so I don't have to be tied to a TV schedule. I'm glad I never thought too deeply about this show, otherwise I'd probably be in the "angry/disappointed" camp.
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Strider
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Leonide and Craig Childs, I agree with what you guys said above almost 100%. I've had the same exact thoughts.

But on the other hand, I just re-watched the final 20 minutes of the show, and you know what I realized. I don't care. In the moment, watching that ending, it's all totally and completely satisfying. As much as I care about all the mysteries, after spending six years with these characters, and watching them connect and struggle and love and die, I don't know how I would've felt about an ending only focused on a few characters that went action action exposition action END. As sappy and saccharin as it was, it was worth it.

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Sterling
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I just saw it tonight. And I think I'm feeling what a lot of my friends did. Emotionally, it was great... But you really don't want to think about it too much. Even from a "character" standpoint, there are a lot of loose ends, and more than a few things that probably wouldn't make one very happy to draw one's own conclusions about.

Only one I'm going to bring up without prodding, and maybe it's petty of me, but if "alt-time" is what they say it is, the "sunken island" shot at the beginning of the "flashes-sideways" is more than a red herring. It's more like a red whale.

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daventor
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Well, most of my predictions were wrong (though a lot of predictions I've read by other people turned out correct).

My final verdict: I really liked it. It was a highly entertaining 105 minutes. Looking back at the show, it's still highly flawed in many ways (sure writers, you can say the mysteries don't matter and make up whatever crap you want along the way, but if you're expecting us to care about characters, shouldn't we also care about WHAT the characters care about, which is all the mystery-stuff; building up things as seeming major plot points and then dropping them just ain't good storytelling), but in the end it's clear to me this show had me emotionally hooked and attached to characters in a way very few stories ever have. I was moved again and again and again. I was actually surprised at how happy-happy-joy-joy the whole ending was, but I was glad; it was very emotionally satisfying to see almost every major character rewarded with what they most wanted after so much suffering and disappointment. And, religious soul that I am, I did appreciate the afterlife/heaven aspect of the whole thing. So, yeah, the resolution of most of the characters outweighed the flaws and bumps and "REALLY!?"s along the way for me. I'm glad I watched it all.

Other little thoughts:

- Yeah, the slow-mo-Jack-in-the-air-punch is probably one of the coolest shots I've ever seen on TV.

- I am really glad they put Hurley in as man-in-charge in the end with Ben as #2; it seemed to me like a great call-back to one of the earlier seasons (I can't remember which one) where Hurley and Ben are sitting next to each other and Hurley gives him part of the candy bar.

- In light of Ben's arc, Michael seems kind of shafted in the eternities; I know Ben said he wasn't going into the church just then, but it looked like the possibility was open; so a mass-murdering psychopath gets forgiveness while a just-killed-two-people-in-order-to-save son (as much as it pissed me off at the time) is sentenced to eternal whispering in people's ears on the island? Yeah, I ended up liking Ben more than I ever really liked Michael, but morally it makes no sense.

-Also really liked how they suggest Jacob's own flaws: "Hey, Hurley, you don't have to run things like Jacob did." I think in the future when people end up on the island things are actually totally crazysexyawesome. Hurley will greet them, give them a bucked of fried chicken, and explain right off the bat what the heck is going on instead of throwing cryptic nonsense at them and letting them go tribal and kill each other.

- Loved the early Star Wars shout outs on the part of Hurley: "He's worse than Yoda" and "I've got a bad feeling about this."

- Hurray! Lapidus and Richard actually lived. Thank you writers for not letting their stories end lame!

- I was very happy with Jack's ending (moreso him just smiling and laughing as light filled the cave); he finally got to do something right and have his proper hero moment.

-Nice twist with Kate shooting Smokey; glad they found something useful for her character to do. And oh it was satisfying to have Jack kick him off the cliff.

Someday I think I might embark on rewatching the whole thing; it'll be an interesting experience, mixed with looking at cool foreshadowings (or just what I read into stuff as foreshadowings) as well as plot lines where I'll be like "Oh, yeah, this goes absolutely nowhere and was just filler crap." But for now, I'm a happy, satisfied fan.

Oh, one last thing: Michael Giaccino is a GENIUS! I think his scores added so much to show throughout its whole run.

[ May 25, 2010, 06:46 AM: Message edited by: daventor ]

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The Rabbit
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Unless I'm remembering incorrectly, Richard never showed up in alt-time. Does this imply Richard never dies?
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Strider
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Rabbit, I don't want to harp on this, but I want to quote something you said and get your thoughts on it. I'm not trying to trap you, I'm genuinely curious about your enjoyment of the final episode and the series in light of the nature of altTime. This was in response to me talking about altTime as epilogue and nuke as red herring.

quote:
Its certainly possible, but it begs a number of questions. If the the creators espouse the "what ever happened, happened" theory of time travel, then why did they introduce the idea that the bomb could change what happened? Why did they then proceed to show us an alternate reality where "What happened, didn't happen?" Why do they have a character, Desmond, to whom, we are told, the rule "whatever happened, happened" does not apply? The only answer you've come up with so far is that its all a reuse to throw us off track. If that is the answer, then its simply bad story telling to invest that much time in something that's ultimately a just a red herring. Which is why I keep saying its hokie and I'll be disappointed if it turns out that way.

I'm perfectly willing to entertain the idea that the authors have a better answer to those questions than you or I can come up with even though they espouse the what ever happened happened theory. I'm just saying that if that's what their aiming for, I can't see how they will acheive it.

I strongly suspect that there is a lot more which influenced the alt time line than the bomb alone, but they've put way too much time into it for the bomb not to be relevant.

You seemed to really enjoy the finale, but does it change your enjoyment of the series knowing that the whole subplot of being able to change things turned out to not be realizable? Do you still think it was bad storytelling by using the nuke and altTime to throw us off track of what was really going on?

I thought the show actually handled this part really well. It was in Desmond's exchange with Jack. Desmond, who has accessed purgatoryTime, but didn't truly understand it's nature, wanting to go there, not realizing you have to die first says, "none of this matters. there's another place. we can go there. you're there..." and Jack answers back to him, "no, i tried that, there are no short cuts, no do overs, whatever happened, happened. All of this matters."

I also think that to a certain extent, the way they handled the finale, and all the reveals, people forgot about the whole nuke/altTime idea, there was just too much else to think about!

Anyway, thoughts?

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Strider
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quote:
Originally posted by The Rabbit:
Unless I'm remembering incorrectly, Richard never showed up in alt-time. Does this imply Richard never dies?

You're right, he never showed up. I'm thinking it's more likely that he's just not part of their circle of friends, and had his own purgatory world to go to.

This sort of brings up what we were talking about the other day, about the nature of the souls in altTime. Is everyone in altTime a real soul? Or are our Losties the only real people in alTime? Was that really Keamy, and was his soul really killed? And if these people are all real, why are they in this little world the Losties created for them? Or are they illusions, or "programs in the matrix" as i put it the other day?

Anyway, just more questions i'm going to try not to think too hard about... [Smile]

[ May 25, 2010, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: Strider ]

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Geraine
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I like to think that Richard is with his wife.

She did not die on the island , though she appeared to him on the island. I don't think she is trapped there. So maybe the two of them already moved on together.

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The Rabbit
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quote:
You seemed to really enjoy the finale, but does it change your enjoyment of the series knowing that the whole subplot of being able to change things turned out to not be realizable? Do you still think it was bad storytelling by using the nuke and altTime to throw us off track of what was really going on?
Well yes as a critic, I think the nuke is just one of many things that detracted rather than added to the story. I generally try to avoid viewing, listening or reading as a critic but the nature of this show, with a story arc that lasted for 6 years, numerous mysterious and long breaks where we were left to speculate endlessly about things, drew me in to the critic role.

The show had simply too many plot devices that were dropped, never explained or included just to mislead people. Take for example the footage of the sunken island. Why would there even have been a sunken island in alt-reality since no one ever saw it? Its only purpose was to mislead the viewers and I don't think that's particularly good story telling. Same thing with the nuke. It just got dropped. They never actually told us whether or not the nuke detonated when Juliette hit is with the rock. They never told us how the Dharma initiative came to the island, why there was a battle between Ben and Widmore, or who made the rules. They never explained Eloise Hawking, why the BSM took Claire, why Jack had to put his father's shoes on Locke, why some but not all of the characters on the plane got flashed back to 1975, and a hundred other things. The story gets worse rather than better when you try to dissect all the details.

Nonetheless, I think the story worked well enough on a variety of levels to have been fun and enjoyable and they concluded it in a way that worked on several levels even if it didn't work on all levels. If it had been a book, I'd expect it would have made the best seller list but would never have won any awards or become a classic of English literature.

But it wasn't a book, it was a TV show so the standards are different. They had to deal with networks, advertisers, and ratings. At the outset, even though (if) they had a vision of where the story was heading, they had no idea how long they would have to tell the story or if they would even get the chance to finish it. They had to deal with staff that didn't know the complete story arc and actors that quit the show or outgrew their rolls. As Lisa put it, this is the first network television story with a multi-season story arc that didn't get ruined by the networks. That alone is an accomplishment for which this show will be remembered.

[ May 25, 2010, 01:11 PM: Message edited by: The Rabbit ]

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The Rabbit
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I've been thinking about the alt-reality story line. Even though its not a perfect world, many of the characters are given the chance to change the things they most regretted -- Locke was going to marry Helen and had a loving relationship with his father, Hugo was the luckiest man in the world, Sayid was able to see Nadia again, Jack had a good relationship with his own son, Desmond had Widmore's respect, Charlie's band was still playing together. But for all of them, when they were given the choice between the that life, and the real life they'd lived and the relationships they'd formed on the island, they chose the island. Perhaps these people couldn't move on because they couldn't let go of their regrets and appreciate the life they'd lead.

That explanation doesn't quite work for everyone. Kate, Claire, Sawyer and Miles don't fit that pattern but maybe that's because they were able to leave the island, continue living and perhaps come to move beyond their regrets while they were still alive. Perhaps Ben and Daniel didn't move on with the rest of them because they had not yet reached the point where they were ready to accept their real lives.

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Geraine
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I think Ben wanted to stay for a few reasons.

1) He was able to have Alex back in his life. When he remembered everything that happened to him on the island he probably wanted to spend more time with her.

2) Because he remembered everything, he probably remembered all of the pain he caused to many of the Losties. Perhaps he does not feel that he had redeemed himself enough to deserve to move on.

As for Daniel, I don't know. Maybe it is because he is reconciling with his mother. I believe I saw Charlotte int he church, so I am confused as to why Daniel would not go with her since he was so in love with her.

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Armoth
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I think Ben stayed back because the writers thought it inappropriate for him to join the rest of the losties, because the last scenes we saw him in, he had been evil. (I thought that was ridiculous btw, because Ben had already redeemed himself a few episodes ago, his turn back to evil kinda got on my nerves).

Either way, although he had an off-camera repentance and led a good life as a #2, we didn't get to see that and he just would not have fit in that church.

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Lisa
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I'm pretty sure I saw Daniel and Charlotte together in the final scene.
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Leonide
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I don't think I'd count killing Widmore who, after all, did order the murder of Ben's adopted daughter, as "evil". Cruel and ruthless, yes, but not evil. Widmore killed Alex so that Ben would comply. Hardly fair or good.

Also, I didn't think Daniel and Charlotte were there at the end -- didn't Desmond say to Eloise that he wouldn't be taking Daniel?

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The Rabbit
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I just studied the final scene. Neither Daniel nor Charlotte are in it.

There is a scene 1:47 before the end where all the characters are seated in the pews. They include (from front to back, left to right)

Locke, Jack, Kate, Sayid, Shannon, Bernard, Rose, Charlie, Claire, Aaron, Sun, Jin, Boone, Juliette, James, Desmond, Penny, Hugo and Libby.

Interestingly, Miles definitely isn't there either.

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LargeTuna
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I'd like to suggest we call it Limbo instead of Purgatory. I didn't see it as some sort of helish place to be moved on from. Just an inbetween place.

And I demand a re-shoot of the Finale with Nikky and Paulo in that church!

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Armoth
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What was Faraday saying in an earlier episode about how they should never have blown up the bomb?
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Geraine
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I don't think he said that, he said he thought he had already blown up a bomb.

Rabbit, thanks for the list. Something I noticed is that while there were a few people there that were not on the plane, none of the people there were associated with Widmore. Every character that started out as part of Widmore's faction (or that came on the boat) was left out.

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Lisa
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In the DVD, there's apparently going to be a clip they cut which showed that Nikki and Paolo were sent back in time and were the ones who chose Jacob's crazy adopted mother to be protectors of the island. Ultimately, the show turns out to be all about Nikki and Paolo.
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The Rabbit
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quote:
Originally posted by Geraine:
Rabbit, thanks for the list. Something I noticed is that while there were a few people there that were not on the plane, none of the people there were associated with Widmore. Every character that started out as part of Widmore's faction (or that came on the boat) was left out.

Unless, of course, you consider Penny and Desmond associated with Widmore. It works if we say "employed by" rather than associated with.

With the exception of Penny, who was there as Desmond's other half, everyone in the final scene was either on the plane or on the island when the plane crashed.

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The Rabbit
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quote:
In light of Ben's arc, Michael seems kind of shafted in the eternities; I know Ben said he wasn't going into the church just then, but it looked like the possibility was open; so a mass-murdering psychopath gets forgiveness while a just-killed-two-people-in-order-to-save son (as much as it pissed me off at the time) is sentenced to eternal whispering in people's ears on the island? Yeah, I ended up liking Ben more than I ever really liked Michael, but morally it makes no sense.
There is no reason to believe that Michael won't ever move on just because he didn't move on with the rest of the losties or appear in their Limbo. Certainly this is not the only route into "heaven".

I think one can rationalize with in the story why Michael wasn't there. This particular purgatory was created so these people who had strong bonds to each other could find each other before moving on. Michael didn't have strong ties to any of the people, in fact just the opposite. Ben evidently built a bond with Hugo as his number 2, so it made some sense for him to be there even though he didn't belong with the rest of the group. but there was no relationship to bring Michael there.

From a more practical writers perspective, bringing in Michael would have caused all kinds of trouble. Michael hasn't been a main character since the 2nd season. Bringing him back would have required some sort of reconciliation between him and the rest of the Losties. They would have had to find away for to come to the epiphany that he had known these people in another life that wouldn't have been solely a recognition that he betrayed them? That would all have required a good chunk of time that would have detracted rather than added to the warm fuzzy happy ending. I think they chose to bring Michael in as ghost a few episodes back because it presented so many fewer difficulties than bringing him in for the finale. He got his final appearance on the show, that appearance foreshadowed the ending, and it advanced the plot rather than diverting them from it. It was a pretty good solution.

The one person I missed seeing one last time was Mr. Eko, but I understand that unlike the other actors, the actor who played Mr Eko wanted to leave the show. They probably couldn't (or didn't want to) get him to come back for one last bit.

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Herblay
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It seems to me, that the nuke proved that things can't be changed. They were in an alternate past. The nuke destroyed any possibility of that alternate past continuing, therefore time "popped" back to the present.

It was a clever use of story as a red herring, but it wasn't inherently cheating. The only real "cheat" that I've seen was the shot of the island underwater.

I don't know if the ending could have been such a surprise, though, if they hadn't cheated.

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The Rabbit
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quote:
It seems to me, that the nuke proved that things can't be changed. They were in an alternate past. The nuke destroyed any possibility of that alternate past continuing, therefore time "popped" back to the present.
Possibly, but they didn't say that. That's my point. One can come up with bits like that to rationalize most parts of the story, my complaint is that you have to come up with way way too many of them. There are just too many plot devices, like the bomb, which they just dropped.
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Bella Bee
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When I watched the pilot episode of Lost, when it was first shown, before it was massively successful or anything, I thought - they're in Purgatory. They're chosen to live on the island because they're more messed up than the other people on the plane.
And the last scene of this show, whether it lasts six weeks or six years, is all of them solving their issues and moving on.
And when they killed Shannon, right after she solved all her issues, I was sure.

So, I didn't get my answers (any more than with Battlestar). And I really wanted them to LIVE happily ever after.
But I got the ending that I felt that the show was leading to from the beginning. It was the right ending, even if there should have been more life before death. Most people die without really knowing why they were alive - we live with that.
The Island was real, but it was also the place they needed to go to become the people they needed to be in order to live and die at peace.
The alt-universe was just a waiting room where they came to understand who it was they had become, and what they had learnt.

I liked that they all came to a church of all religions and of none - each person's beliefs, from Desmond's Catholicism to Sayid's Islam to Jack's Atheism were all okay.
They all go to the same place, heaven or earth.
I hated the end of Narnia, which is similar. But this was less judgemental.

And I'm glad that Kate, Sawyer, Claire, Miles, Frank and a happy, hopeful Richard, got off that darn rock.
I was left imagining that Hurley spent the next nine thousand years doing sweet things to cheer Ben and the ghosts up (he helped them solve their issues so they could move on if they wanted to), and playing golf with Michael and Mr. Eko.
And Desmond got to go home, and Hurley could still visit the mainland whenever he liked, the way Jacob could - which he enjoyed more once we built the robots and spaceships and discovered alien life.
And that Kate and Claire co-raised Aaron as his two Mommies, and Miles, Sawyer, Richard and Frank set up some sort of brilliantly snarky supernatural detective service.

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Craig Childs
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quote:
Originally posted by Strider:
Leonide and Craig Childs, I agree with what you guys said above almost 100%. I've had the same exact thoughts.

But on the other hand, I just re-watched the final 20 minutes of the show, and you know what I realized. I don't care. In the moment, watching that ending, it's all totally and completely satisfying. As much as I care about all the mysteries, after spending six years with these characters, and watching them connect and struggle and love and die, I don't know how I would've felt about an ending only focused on a few characters that went action action exposition action END. As sappy and saccharin as it was, it was worth it.

I agree the finale had to focus on the characters' redemptive arc. But all of Season 6 should have been geared toward revealing answers, and not just three or four isolated questions (i.e., what are the whispers), but explaining a "unified theory" that would tie everything together.
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The Reader
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I too am disappointed that a Grand Unified Theory of Lost (GULT) does not exist. I like how the show ended, but the mysteries were what made Lost. It isn't Lost without Dharma, the ancient Egyptian stuff, and magnetism. Without that, it's Dallas. What I cared about more than characters was the epic weirdness of the Island.

But there are always ways to tie up the story. I am, for one, hoping that books (good ones!) and other such things come out to help this.

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Herblay
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quote:
Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:
It seems to me, that the nuke proved that things can't be changed. They were in an alternate past. The nuke destroyed any possibility of that alternate past continuing, therefore time "popped" back to the present.
Possibly, but they didn't say that. That's my point. One can come up with bits like that to rationalize most parts of the story, my complaint is that you have to come up with way way too many of them. There are just too many plot devices, like the bomb, which they just dropped.
Ehhh, the one big rule of storytelling is "show, don't tell". As you said, they didn't tell you what happened . . . they made you think for yourself. Isn't that why you fell in love with Lost to begin with?
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Strider
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Herblay, I agree that they showed things can't be changed. But I disagree that they were in an "alternate past". They were in the very real past. There is only one history of the Island, and that history included Losties mingling with Dharma folk in the 70s.
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Raymond Arnold
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Finally got to watch it. I went in assuming they would answer no questions, so I was not disappointed on that end. I appreciated all the happy closure. The only question I am frustrated they didn't answer is "What's the deal with Eloise," since that was a current question as opposed to one they had forgotten about 4 years ago.

I think it would have been cooler if altTime had been an actual altTime and that Eloise was some diabolical mastermind that was constructing it for some weird purpose, but honestly I can't think of what that purpose would be. I'm actually okay with Purgatory, because even though it makes the nuke a giant useless red herring, it DOES fit in with the rest of the show. I think I'd consider it a fine ending if they had just given a bit more explanation as to how Purgatory was created. I think a cool "altClimax" would have been a showdown between Hurley, Desmond and Eloise, where is revealed that Hurley and Eloise had worked together to craft Purgatory, but that Eloise had ultimately tried to subvert it so she could keep her son.

In any case, I love that Hurley ended up becoming the new guardian. Three weeks ago I was like "okay, it's either Jack or Hurley, everyone else is too boring a choice." Then it was Jack, and I was like "eh, okay." Then Jack says "Okay Hugo you're turn," and I literally turned off the recording and went SQUEEEE!!!! for like 5 minutes.

I also love Ben's line: "Maybe we can do it better than Jacob." I have this vision of a hovercar crashin on the island in 2050, and Hugo walks up to the people on the beach sipping a lemonade and says "Okay dudes, so here's the deal. You are gonna see stuff on this island that is going to freak you the hell out. There will be visions of dead relatives. There will be polar bears. There will be weird magnetic fluxes. I promise, trying to figure out what any of this means is going to make you seriously unhappy. I have a boat coming in a few days, you guys can leave then. For now, have some lemonade and fried chicken."

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Raymond Arnold
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Also, I'd fully a support a spin-off series that explored the Walt-Has-Powers and the "Children can't be born" questions in more depth. They ultimately weren't relevant to this particular story but they were still cool questions.
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Armoth
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I still liked the idea of Jacob using the island to bring out the best in people. Hence his dialogue with MiB in the beginning of the season.

That's kinda what I envision Hurley doing.

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The Rabbit
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quote:
That's kinda what I envision Hurley doing.
I can see the sequel now: "Fantasy Island" with Mr Rayes instead of Mr Roarke.
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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:
That's kinda what I envision Hurley doing.
I can see the sequel now: "Fantasy Island" with Mr Reyes instead of Mr Roarke.
Fixed that for you.
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swbarnes2
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quote:
Originally posted by Armoth:
I still liked the idea of Jacob using the island to bring out the best in people.

By "people", You mean "in a handful of people who survived a plane crash that he claims to have orchestrated"? I'm not sure how else to interpret "I brought you all to the island" other than that he is partially responsible for the plane crash, and all that resulted from that.
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Bella Bee
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Speaking of names:

BENJAMIN
Benjamin in the Old Testament was the youngest son of Jacob. He was originally named (Ben-'oniy) meaning "son of my sorrow" by his mother Rachel, who died shortly after childbirth, but it was later changed by his father.

HUGO
From the Germanic element hug, meaning "heart, mind, spirit".

Never thought to look those up before.

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Lisa
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A Finale Explanation from a Supposed Bad Robot Employee

I don't know. This makes perfect sense to me. Maybe it's legit and maybe not, but I'm taking it as authoritative.

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Herblay
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
A Finale Explanation from a Supposed Bad Robot Employee

I don't know. This makes perfect sense to me. Maybe it's legit and maybe not, but I'm taking it as authoritative.

Well written (and a logical summary), but they couldn't seem to spell the names of secondary characters correctly (Ana Lucia, Lapidus, etc).
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The Rabbit
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quote:
]But, from a more “behind the scenes” note: the reason Ben’s not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it.
It sounds good but Bernard, Penny and Juliette were not in season 1 and they were in the church.
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LargeTuna
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The main spin off I want is a James, Miles buddy cop show.

Also they need to make Expose for real! we have to stop the Cobra.

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Traceria
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quote:
Originally posted by Craig Childs:
quote:
Originally posted by Strider:
Leonide and Craig Childs, I agree with what you guys said above almost 100%. I've had the same exact thoughts.

But on the other hand, I just re-watched the final 20 minutes of the show, and you know what I realized. I don't care. In the moment, watching that ending, it's all totally and completely satisfying. As much as I care about all the mysteries, after spending six years with these characters, and watching them connect and struggle and love and die, I don't know how I would've felt about an ending only focused on a few characters that went action action exposition action END. As sappy and saccharin as it was, it was worth it.

I agree the finale had to focus on the characters' redemptive arc. But all of Season 6 should have been geared toward revealing answers, and not just three or four isolated questions (i.e., what are the whispers), but explaining a "unified theory" that would tie everything together.
What you said in your earlier comment I also agree with, and yet, I also teared up some when Jin and Sun worked out and Sawyer and Juliet found one another, etc. That aside, my husband and I were disappointed. We weren't expecting all our questions to be answered, but we were also hoping to get more about the overlying mythology.

Maybe we've both just seen too many anime series that hinge on a mythos but then have an ending that is completely ambiguous. Neon Genesis Evangelion is my hubby's favorite series. It DOES has an ambiguous ending, but the series and its creators make a point to not tease you about the mythos. They make clear their intentions that the show is really about the characters and that you're not going to get any explanation about the angels or why everyone in the world save two people die (and so on). They never even try to explain those, just how man is reacting/fighting them.

Lost, on the other hand, teased us with all the questions of the Island and the occasional answer to one of them. It was about the characters, too, but they did end up just using the Island as a backdrop for a "soap opera" when, I agree, they should have been a least providing an overarching explanation behind it. Give us a NAME if only that for the magic glowing waterfall place. Or, at least tell us what its power is in some fashion. How can it be the "light" (implied good) if it somehow ends up contributing to the creation of the evil smoke monster?!

Yeah, I was happy to see the characters' reunions, but I feel gipped as to an explanation. As I said, I wasn't expecting the answer to life, the universe and everything, but even a simple 42 would have done it for me.

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docmagik
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I liked this article. I don't agree with all of it, but I liked it:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2010/05/one-lost-tuesday-all-of-this-matters.html

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Uprooted
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I don't have anything to say except that I really loved that link, docmagik, thanks. (as well as the author's earlier article linked to just above the picture of Jack and Vincent). And that I'm not ready for this thread to disappear yet. *sniffle*
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