posted
Did anyone feel that Sayid was somehow...detached?
He didn't seem like he was all there when Kate spoke to him, and he looked confused when Claire attacked her, almost like he didn't care.
Something more is up with him. Perhaps he is slowly losing his mind like Claire did? Is it just an act?
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posted
Rabbit, I agree about Sayid. I find him more fascinating than any other character on the show. I can't imagine anyone who has been that ruthless having so much gentleness and compassion remaining in his nature, but having never actually met a torturer (that I'm aware of) I'm not sure if the character rings true or not.
Sayid, Sawyer and Hurley are the most interesting characters on the show to me. Ben's interesting too, but hard to like. And yes, Sawyer does seem strange and detached, and Sayid's just a mess now. When Claire was hugging Kate I kept wondering if she was going to go for the gun.
False Locke was pretty creepy telling Kate a crazy mama story - then justifying lying to Claire, like giving her something to hate was a good thing.
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posted
I dunno, I feel like these specific characters are brought back to correct their own very personal flaws. Despite the difficulty of Sayid's choices, I'd say that he's chosen the dark side in both realities.
There are a limited amount of episodes left. Now is the time for the writers to be tying things up in simple little bows for us. I definitely feel closure in the case of Ben, and possibly Jack as well - in terms of the struggle of their moral development. Perhaps we are meant to feel that way about Sayid as well. Especially when he watched Kate and Claire. I mean, it wasn't even Sayid anymore. It was like the last 5 min of Revenge of the Sith...
Posts: 1604 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I really liked Sayid, but I'm bored with his story now. The man's got two settings-- big-eyed sensitive Arabian hunk, or reluctant torturer/murderer.
But Sawyer is rich in both conundrum and irony. He's also hunky, if you like that kind of thing. Hands down-- best character in the series next to Hurley.
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posted
That is what is so sad about Sayid. I feel like he's gone. But then Claire appeared to be a lost cause, but wasn't; she had been manipulated.
Sometimes it seems that Jacob is a bad guy, and FLocke is the good guy, but I still believe that FLocke is bad. He ultimately damages people to meet his own ends. Jacob hasn't done that, even though it seems that he removed free will, which is not the worst that he could have done. IMO, Jacob tries to make people realize their purpose with as little pushing as possible.
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quote:Originally posted by Scott R: The fact that Hurly is not fun this season is, IMO, the real reason this show sucks rotten dinosaur eggs now.
I'm with Bok on this one. I think Hurley is fantastic this season. He's not only funny(when he's on screen), but he's also taking a leadership role which I'm very psyched about.
quote:Originally posted by Geraine: I was really hoping the person Miles was trying to set Sawyer up with was Juliet. It puzzled me why they even brought Charlotte into the whole storyline. It seems the writers are just trying to do everything they can to give screen time to every single character that has ever been on the show. Still no sign of Faraday though >.<
Agreed about Charlotte as well. It seems like just another way for them to cram in a familiar face. I GET IT...they're all meant to cross paths, I don't need to be beaten over the head with it. I think Sawyer WILL meet Juliet, but that it won't happen for a while, and that it will be a random meeting. Her last lines when she died, which I still think will be said by her to Sawyer in altTime, seemed to imply it wasn't anything like a blind date.
I'm hoping that Faraday is a professional musician, and plays at the conservatory that Jack's son auditioned at, and that next time there is a Jack episode they might all meet up.
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: I think that's seriously over simplified. If someone has shot your brother, threatened his wife and children and kidnapped you, I wouldn't call it [i]evil to kill them. I'm not sure I'd call it good either, but it definitely isn't evil.
Of all the characters in the show, Sayid raises the most interesting questions about good and evil. He is clearly more capable of ruthlessness than any other major character, but unlike Kate, Sawyer and even Jack his ruthless actions never seem to be selfishly motivated and unlike Keemy and Ben he does not enjoy it.
QFT
That's a good way to put it, and I agree, but I do think there is something to what Armoth says. I wouldn't put it in terms of evil, but I would say that Sayid, in both time lines, gave in to the temptation to engage in or embrace his violent nature. And it fits with a pattern of these characters choosing the same path in altTime as they do on the Island(currently in season 6 i mean).
posted
oh, Bok, Jacob DOES touch Kate. In last year's season finale, when he appears in the convenience store, he touches her on the nose when he tells her to be good.
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posted
Prediction: before the season is over, Ben Linus gets to make a Redemptive Self-Sacrifice (tm) at the cost of his life.
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posted
oh oh Prediction: Once we get the theme that the flash sideways parallel the regular time-line, we'll meet a character that BREAKS the mold of destiny and they will be the key to resolving the rip in time!
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I predict that Sawyer is going to bite it this season. Most likely sacrificing himself for someone, probably Kate, and that this will be a result of his long con failing against Esau (you don't con a con man).
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quote:Agreed about Charlotte as well. It seems like just another way for them to cram in a familiar face. I GET IT...they're all meant to cross paths, I don't need to be beaten over the head with it.
There also may be a more practical reason for it: The writers intend to show us what each character is like in this reality, and since they can't give each character their own separate flash-sideways episode, they have to make most of the lesser characters show up in the flash-sideways episodes of the main characters.
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quote:Originally posted by The Reader: That is what is so sad about Sayid. I feel like he's gone. But then Claire appeared to be a lost cause, but wasn't; she had been manipulated.
Jury's not out on Claire. I honestly thought Kate was going to get a knife in her back when they hugged.
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quote:Originally posted by Strider: I predict that Sawyer is going to bite it this season. Most likely sacrificing himself for someone, probably Kate, and that this will be a result of his long con failing against Esau (you don't con a con man).
I've been predicting Sawyer's demise since Season One. Wrong-O. I don't have any reason to believe that they'll "finally" kill him off. He's too beloved, and as much as they have killed off a few shocking characters, they've never really put the audience through the ringer -- Sawyer's death would be a BIG one. I don't think they have the cajones. Lindelof's no Joss Whedon. Posts: 3516 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
I think it's not about beating people over the head when you have all these previous characters cross paths. That's just a Reason to bring back all these actors. Think of it in terms of a writer: when you bring a character back, you get a known quantity whose backstory you don't have to explain. The audience identifies and has emotions about the character immediately. You also get an actor to play the part who's worked with you before and you know can do well. The Charlotte fans' feelings are somewhat ameliorated (I mean, Miles gets such a large part, so why doesn't Charlotte?). Also, you can make the characters entirely disposable. I don't think we'll see Charlotte in alt-time again because people want Sawyer to be with Kate or Juliet.
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I wonder if Miles has the power to know the dead's last thoughts in alt-time.
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posted
They are starting to stretch the everyone is connected thing too far. It almost makes me wonder if in the Lost universe, the world has only a few hundred "real" people in it so no matter what changes, those same few "real" people keep running into each other, kind of like a small town.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
In my opinion, the last couple of episodes have been disappointing and not really because of any particular faults in the episodes themselves. They are just fine as stand alone episodes, but they've done very little to advance the plot. We've had 5 years of mysteriousness and character development, its time to stop mucking around and start resolving things. And I'm not just talking about the big questions, I'm talking about the characters. A lot of them have stopped being interesting because they've stop going any where. Watching the same neurosis play out over and over again isn't interesting.
Sometime I just want to shout at the producers "GET ON WITH IT ALREADY!!!"
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posted
The creators are on record stating (as has been quoted previously in this topic) that basically they're resolving Characters, not Mysteries. Watching the same neuroses play out over and over again is probably all we're going to get! Posts: 3516 | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Leonide: The creators are on record stating (as has been quoted previously in this topic) that basically they're resolving Characters, not Mysteries. Watching the same neuroses play out over and over again is probably all we're going to get!
I thought I made myself clear that I was talking about resolving the characters and the last two episodes haven't made any progress in doing that. "Resolving characters" is not synonymous with showing the same neurosis playing out over and over again, it the opposite.
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When Esau told Richard it was hell, my thought was that the alt-universe would have to be heaven.
That was some can of whup-ass Jacob opened on Richard.
Wasn't Richard called Ricardus at some point? I thought that indicated that he was going to turn out to be Roman Empire old. So he's only been on the island for 130? Pish.
I think Esau is honest. Evil, but honest. I think he really thinks he's okay.
Is there going to be a price to Richard saying that he changed his mind? Are there takebacks, or is he hosed now? For that matter, does Esau know that Richard said he changed his mind? He isn't omniscient, after all.
Another thing that occurred to me, though it was during the "previously"s, was that maybe in the universe where Aaron grows up with a crazy mother, he grows up to be Esau, and in the universe where he grows up with a sane mother, he grows up to be Jacob.
Isn't Jacob bringing people to the island to let them stand or fall just to prove a point to Esau kind of cynical and obnoxious?
The Jacob as God and Esau as the Devil stuff reached anvil status last night. He doesn't want to interfere directly (sure, like he never does that), because it interferes with free will, but he appoints Richard as his "prophet" and traps Esau in "hell". Sheesh, guys, we get it already.
posted
Not only this, but I think it is important to take into account the following:
1) Jacob says he can't bring the dead back, but can grant eternal life
2) Esau promises to bring the dead back to life (whether this is a lie or not is unknown, unless he tricks people into believing this by changing his form)
3) When Esau was trying to get Richard to kill Jacob, he used the exact same words that Dogen did when he tried to get Sayid to kill Esau.
4) Loved the wine bottle analogy. It makes me wonder though.... If the island is the cork, and the island is under water in the alt timeline, does that mean Esau is loose? Is the island some sort of Pandora's Box?
I loved this episode, possibly more than the Ben Linus episode. Richard has always been a mysterious character, and I felt bad for him. He has had a hard life. Hurley made me remember why he is my favorite character. The guy has a heart of gold, and whenever you see him you just wish he was your friend.
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quote:4) Loved the wine bottle analogy. It makes me wonder though.... If the island is the cork, and the island is under water in the alt timeline, does that mean Esau is loose? Is the island some sort of Pandora's Box?
I was thinking something similar. If the Island is a cork for holding in pure evil, and in altTime we know that the Island is buried under water, does that meant that altTime is a universe where evil has escaped and was let loose on the world? Could it be that the Losties end up making some sort of deal with Esau to live in this universe, free of Jacob's interferences in their lives?
I haven't thought that through, and it wouldn't exactly be the happiest of endings, but it struck me as plausible.
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posted
I think any of the candidates that are alive are still in the running. i.e- anyone who's not crossed out on the list. So add Sayid to your list and you have it msquared.
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posted
Kate was not crossed out in the lighthouse, but from interviews with the producers they stated that Kates name was in the cave, and it was crossed off. Originally there was a shot of it but it was not included in the final cut.
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posted
producers must of changed their minds! i said right of the bat that they dug themselves into a hole by associating the losties with the dharma numbers, because it limited them to six.
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quote:Originally posted by Geraine: Did anyone feel that Sayid was somehow...detached?
And notice last night when he said that he wasn't feeling anything? Actually, when he told Locke that, I half expected Locke to say "You're welcome".
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quote:Originally posted by Geraine: Esau promises to bring the dead back to life (whether this is a lie or not is unknown, unless he tricks people into believing this by changing his form)
Does he actually promise that? Usually, he says, "What if I were to tell you that I could bring so-and-so back to life?"
quote:Originally posted by Geraine: 3) When Esau was trying to get Richard to kill Jacob, he used the exact same words that Dogen did when he tried to get Sayid to kill Esau.
Or rather, Dogen used the same words that Esau did.
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posted
Esau crossed out Locke's name as a candidate, but given that someone, Esau, is still walking around in a Locke shell, I'm not willing to eliminate "Locke" as a candidate.
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quote:Originally posted by Lisa: [list] [*]I think Esau is honest. Evil, but honest. I think he really thinks he's okay.
Esau lied to Richard, out right. He told Richard that Jacob had taken his wife. He says he saw it happen. He says she was running from Jacob. All clear lies.
I think that scene established that Esau is absolutely not honest.
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quote:Originally posted by Geraine: Esau promises to bring the dead back to life (whether this is a lie or not is unknown, unless he tricks people into believing this by changing his form)
Does he actually promise that? Usually, he says, "What if I were to tell you that I could bring so-and-so back to life?"
I remember it being even more vague, "what if i told you you could be together".
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"The devil has your wife and you are going to have to kill him if you ever want to get her back."
To Sayid he said only: "What if you could?"
So he never actually promises either of them they will get their wives back. He does however directly lie to Richard about Jacob taking her.
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posted
I think its interesting that the knife Dogen gives to Sayid is apparently the exact same knife that Esau gave Richard.
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quote:Originally posted by Lisa: [list] [*]I think Esau is honest. Evil, but honest. I think he really thinks he's okay.
Esau lied to Richard, out right. He told Richard that Jacob had taken his wife. He says he saw it happen. He says she was running from Jacob. All clear lies.
I think that scene established that Esau is absolutely not honest.
Unless Jacob is a Christ like figure, and did take Richard's wife. To heaven maybe?
Posts: 1937 | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Lisa: [list] [*]I think Esau is honest. Evil, but honest. I think he really thinks he's okay.
Esau lied to Richard, out right. He told Richard that Jacob had taken his wife. He says he saw it happen. He says she was running from Jacob. All clear lies.
I think that scene established that Esau is absolutely not honest.
Unless Jacob is a Christ like figure, and did take Richard's wife. To heaven maybe?
I considered that possibility but even that doesn't work. Ricardo says "My wife Isabelle, she was running from you". Esau responds "She was running from him. I'm sorry. I saw him take her but I couldn't do anything to stop it."
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Sterling: So here's what I'm thinking.
The island- anomalies and all- is a prison for the black smoke monster. It may not always have been such, but that's its primary reason for being right now.
The guardian, previously Jacob, is in charge of maintaining that prison so the black smoke monster doesn't escape.
I seem to be doing pretty well on predictions so far. Posts: 3826 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Lisa: [list] [*]I think Esau is honest. Evil, but honest. I think he really thinks he's okay.
Esau lied to Richard, out right. He told Richard that Jacob had taken his wife. He says he saw it happen. He says she was running from Jacob. All clear lies.
I think that scene established that Esau is absolutely not honest.
His wording was very interesting though. He talked about her not running from the smoke monster but form the devil. that the devil has her. that the devil betrayed him, stole his body and his humanity, etc...could it be that he's sort of talking in the third person there? That Esau is in as much conflict with himself as he is with Jacob, that he really betrayed himself. And thus when he talks about the devil doing these things, he's really talking about himself, but saying these things in such a way to get Richard to kill Jacob?
It fits with a lot of dialog:
quote:I considered that possibility but even that doesn't work. Ricardo says "My wife Isabelle, she was running from you". Esau responds "She was running from him. I'm sorry. I saw him take her but I couldn't do anything to stop it."
Almost like he saw it happening from the outside but was powerless to stop it, powerless to stop himself from giving in to his evil desires...
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posted
I think last night's episode raised a lot of interesting questions about the nature of the Smoke Monster. Some Questions I was pondering:
1) Why did Smokey kill every, but leave Richard? Did he have to? Was their a rule, some barriers in place? If the first mate hadn't stabbed the other slaves, would they have been spared too?
2) Why did Jacob bring the ship if the only survivor was Richard, whom Jacob didn't seem to have any plans for until he met him? Everyone else Died!
3) Why is Smokey "allowed" to kill some, and not others? If he killed the "sinful" slaveship crew, why did he also (in the first season) kill the apparently blameless pilot of 815 and a handful of the other castaways?
4) If Smokey could have killed Richard, but didn't, why? If he planned to mess with him all along, why didn't he pull a longer con? More time getting Richard to trust him might have allowed for more fight in Richard during the confrontation with the "Devil".
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quote:And thus when he talks about the devil doing these things, he's really talking about himself, but saying these things in such a way to get Richard to kill Jacob?
It fits with a lot of dialog:
But not all the dialog.
It fits only parts of the dialog if you stretch it a really long way and I'm not sure what the point would be in stretching it at all. Lisa said she thought Esau was honest. Esau tells Richard that the devil took his wife, that the devil is not the black smoke, he is, and that the devil is the man under the statue. That's pretty obviously dishonest any way you twist it.
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![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I don't have any reason to believe that they'll "finally" kill him off. He's too beloved, and as much as they have killed off a few shocking characters, they've never really put the audience through the ringer -- Sawyer's death would be a BIG one. I don't think they have the cajones. Lindelof's no Joss Whedon. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
