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Author Topic: Lost Season 6
LargeTuna
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*some spoilers from the premier*

I didn't like it so much. There was so much going on with very little explanation or reason to be attatched. My favorite episodes have been the ones like when desmond had to find his constant (penny), and when charlie had his greatest hits and even some of the more touching Sun/Jin episodes. I'm a sucker for the emotional side of the show, and I just felt almost nothing throughout the episode. I'd rather have good writing than many exciting things happening at the same time. Sawyer yelling about killing Jack made it hard for me to even sympathy for him when Juliette died. They keepwriting out all of the people I care about. I didn't even care when Sayid ended up living at the end

I liked the moment Locke and Jack shared in the airport, I liked Richard throwing around Ben a little bit, and I liked when Hurley talked to Jacob.

I think this was my least favorite season premier so far. Hope the whole season isn't like this.

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Leonide
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The show has always had a balance between the emotional, character-driven episodes and the plot-mystery driven ones. Did you know that the creators are quoted as saying the flashbacks are done with for the duration of the show? So no more "where I came from/what made me this way." I guess they figure we should have a handle on the characters by now. [Smile]

A few thoughts I had about tonight:

1)Dead is Dead. The Temple people pronounced Sayid dead and then Jack did, and then...he woke up? Here's my interpretation: the Temple folk said the water had changed colors. I think Jacob's essence had seeped into the water after his death, and when the Temple folk held Sayid's body underneath as Sayid died, Jacob was able to use him as a vessel. So now Smoke Monster/Man in Black = Locke, and Jacob/Man in White = Sayid. [Smile] Just a theory...

2) I think there's an alternate time-line that was created when the bomb detonated (Juliet's "It Worked") and sealed the rift that the original "wheel spin" created. Now everyone is back where they're "supposed" to be, and the paradox has been corrected that came about when the LaLosties et. al. went back in time. So the time-line split in 1977 -- in one line, the Island blew up, the "time travelers" went back, and everyone on the Island perished ---- but everyone who'd been evacuated (Chang, for instance, and Ben and Ben's father, etc.) is safe and alive somewhere, presumably. In the other time-line, well -- everything happened as it always happened. Whatever happened, happened. And now they're on the Island trying to keep LockeMonster away with cigarette ashes and flares. [Smile]

3) Is Desmond timeline jumping? An exciting prospect that I hope becomes realized in an awesome way. I always adore his episodes.

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Lisa
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When Charlie said "I was supposed to die," do you think there was more significance than a death wish?

Island Kate is annoying, but fugitive AltKate is pretty entertaining.

Christian Shepherd is missing. Interesting.

What chains was Richard in that FauxLocke was talking about? And man, FauxLocke so put the smackdown on Richard.

Who are the temple people?

Doc Artz was back! Or AltArtz, anyway. And as annoying as ever. And who was the weedy guy who had the eye mask on in the plane and gave AltKate a hard time about cutting in the taxi line? Was he the guy who got sucked into the jet in the pilot?

Speaking of pilot, that was Greg Grunberg as Captain AltNorris. Bummer that they didn't show him, but his voice was pretty clear.

AltJin is back to being a douche. That's sad.

I guess that could have been real Desmond jumping, but he honestly didn't seem to recognize AltJack, so I don't know.

And the change isn't just that the plane didn't crash. Something changed way earlier. Because AltHurley apparently didn't have the string of bad luck after winning the lottery that Hurley did. Did Jacob cause the bad luck? Was Jacob erased retroactively from the alt timeline?

And how did Juliette know that it worked?

And AltKate and AltClaire. That should be interesting.

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Uprooted
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
When Charlie said "I was supposed to die," do you think there was more significance than a death wish?

I thought it was waving a red flag of significance.

"Dead is dead" -- that's surely not Sayid who just woke up. Jacob? Could be. But why, if the note said that they were all in trouble if Sayid died, was he allowed (helped) to die?

And what's w/ that conversation with Ben and FauxLocke? Something along the lines of "why me?" and then the answer is "do you know what Locke felt when he died? Confused." Okaaay, I can relate to that confused feeling.

I, too, liked the exchange between Jack and Locke. I was wondering if it was a hint that there was redemption for the altLosties, and what Juliette meant by "it worked." Although, yeah, Jin was being a jerk and Kate was far from evidencing redemption from her past.

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docmagik
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quote:
And the change isn't just that the plane didn't crash. Something changed way earlier. Because AltHurley apparently didn't have the string of bad luck after winning the lottery that Hurley did. Did Jacob cause the bad luck? Was Jacob erased retroactively from the alt timeline?
My guess is, if, in the alt timeline, the big boom killed and destoryed everyone and everything on the island, and possibly sank it to the bottom of the sea, there was no transmission of the numbers going on. So Hugo didn't get the numbers from the crazy guy, because the crazy guy could never have heard the broadcast. (So how did he still win the lottery?) This also means the science team that brought the french woman never went to the island.

Considering who was on the island when the bomb went off, this could also mean that Faraday was never born, and Charles Widmore might be dead. Of course, Faraday's mom might have been underground when it happened--Richard was trying to save her last season, so he might have kept her underground to protect her from the blast. So Richard might be alive as well.

Or some of them might have been knocked through time like the Losties.

All of this is incredible. This is, without a doubt, my favorite episode ever.

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theCrowsWife
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
What chains was Richard in that FauxLocke was talking about?

I took that as confirmation of the theory that Richard came to the island on the Black Rock, a slave ship.

quote:
And who was the weedy guy who had the eye mask on in the plane and gave AltKate a hard time about cutting in the taxi line? Was he the guy who got sucked into the jet in the pilot?
Frogurt!

quote:
And the change isn't just that the plane didn't crash. Something changed way earlier. Because AltHurley apparently didn't have the string of bad luck after winning the lottery that Hurley did. Did Jacob cause the bad luck? Was Jacob erased retroactively from the alt timeline?
Hmm, it seems like we might have a missing chunk of timeline, here. When the French team lands on the Island and pick up the numbers transmission, it sounds like Hurley's voice saying them. Hurley never recorded those numbers in 1977, and now he's been transported back to 2007, so does he go back in time again? Or was that someone else who just happened to sound like Hurley?

--Mel

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Strider
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There were other changes to the time line as well:

-charlie swallows his drugs instead of flushing them
-Cindy, the stewardess, gives jack one bottle of liquor instead of two
-Jack is nervous, while Rose is calm
-Boone came back from Australia alone
-Sun may or may not speak English
-Hurley is lucky
-and of course, Desmond is on the plane(though I like Leonide's idea of a timeline hopping Desmond).

No time now, but I'll post actual thoughts later!

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Raymond Arnold
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I love that they finally started "flashing sideways." People have been joking about that since the Flash Forwards started. I'm surprised I didn't see that coming - I was worried that I couldn't think of a good way to have the bomb actually do SOMETHING (anything) and still have a good show. Forking the timeline was a good solution.

I actually thought this had a lot of good moments. Normally I DON'T like the season premiers, and it takes me a few episodes to get back into the series, but this was pretty good.

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Javert
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quote:
Originally posted by Strider:
There were other changes to the time line as well:

-charlie swallows his drugs instead of flushing them
-Cindy, the stewardess, gives jack one bottle of liquor instead of two
-Jack is nervous, while Rose is calm
-Boone came back from Australia alone
-Sun may or may not speak English
-Hurley is lucky
-and of course, Desmond is on the plane(though I like Leonide's idea of a timeline hopping Desmond).

No time now, but I'll post actual thoughts later!

Also...Michael and Walt may not have been on the plane in the alt timeline.

The easy explanation, of course, is that the actor who plays Walt is far too old and too different looking for them to have appeared. But it may also be a relevant plot point. Never can tell with Lost.

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Geraine
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I didn't really like the episode. It could have something to do with me being sick as a dog, so I may have to watch it again. It just seemed to be boring. The only interesting parts to me was the "Bizarro" timeline. I wouldn't have minded if the entire episode had been in that time line instead of 2007.

I do wonder who the people at the temple are. They seem to know more about Jacob than the others did. The Japanese man seems to be their leader, which would indicate to me that they are not "Others" but another group. Richard is more than likely someone from this group.

It did seem a little strange that the same ruins that leads to Jacob's temple is the same place the Locke-ness Monster hangs out in. (That's what I've started calling him [Big Grin] )

I was utterly dissapointed in Juliet's death, but I am sure we will somehow see Bizarro Juliet in the alternate timeline.

Was it just me or did it seem like the 2 hour Premier took up only about an hour? It seemed we got 5 minutes of show for every 5 minutes of commercials. Maybe that is what ruined the experience for me.

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Leonide
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quote:
Also...Michael and Walt may not have been on the plane in the alt timeline.
Or Eko, Libby, Ana Lucia, or for that matter Nikki and Paulo (wouldn't that be nice...) [Wink]

quote:
But why, if the note said that they were all in trouble if Sayid died, was he allowed (helped) to die?

That's just what the Templies SAID the note said. It may have said something akin to what actually happened, or something completely different -- at the very least, we know it said more than the Templies related because all of their names were on it. I doubt very much it read

quote:
Hello Templies!
Do You See The Following Persons?
(list of names)
If so, good!

Also, if Sayid is dying, heal him.

Ta Very Much,
Jacob



[ February 03, 2010, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: Leonide ]

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Strider
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One more alternate time line difference. Jin and Sun aren't married. Neither of them have rings and the customs official calls Sun Ms. Paik, instead of Mrs. Kwan!

quote:
"Dead is dead" -- that's surely not Sayid who just woke up. Jacob? Could be. But why, if the note said that they were all in trouble if Sayid died, was he allowed (helped) to die?
If Leonide's theory is correct(and I do think it has a lot going for it) then I imagine it would have gone something like this. Jacob knows he's going to die, and knows Sayid will too. He leaves a note saying to heal Sayid, and that it's really important to do that. His people at this point don't know that Jacob is dead. They attempt to save Sayid, but it doesn't work. Meanwhile, it takes some time for Jacob's essence to fully embody another human body. After a while it does so, and Sayid(now Jacob) wakes up. Now...this is all speculative at this point. But it's worth considering!

Here's what's important to remember. Jacob gave Hurley the guitar case with the note in 2007. It has a list of names and most likely something about healing Sayid. This means that Jacob knew that the Ajira flight would crash on the Island, that the Losties would be split in time, with half of them going to 1977, that they would detonate a nuke at the hatch, and that Sayid would get shot in the process. And presumably that Jacob himself would die and need to be resurrected if this Sayid/Jacob theory is true.

quote:
Originally posted by theCrowsWife:
quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
What chains was Richard in that FauxLocke was talking about?

I took that as confirmation of the theory that Richard came to the island on the Black Rock, a slave ship.

--Mel

That's what I took away from it too.

I also always thought the same thing as you, that it was Hurley himself that recorded the numbers. So if that's correct, I see two options. One, Hurley still time jumps again and records the numbers at some point in the past. Two, alternate time line Hurley somehow ends up on The Island in the past and records the numbers.

In general, I loved the episode. Unsurprisingly, I loved every second of the on Island scenes, and was really unhappy with the alternate time line scenes. Interestingly, I actually enjoyed the alttime scenes themselves, I'm just unhappy about their very existence. Besides, from my point of view, being a huge waste of time that could be better spent addressing questions that need to be answered, it also just really rubs me the wrong way. Since the Island is buried under water we have to assume that the nuke destroyed the Island. This would kill Eloise and unborn Faraday, it would kill Widmore and yet to be born Penny, it would kill Chang(who did not evacuate Leonide), and little Ben and Roger, all of Dharma, all the Others...

I'm willing to hold judgment for a bit, and see where Lost goes with this. If they drag this out all season, i think I'll be disappointed. If they manage to close up this story line in 3 or 4 episodes, and do something interesting with it, I think I'll be okay. I've been thinking about how they might tie this all together. Are they going to have the altLosties end up back at the Island anyway? Seems unlikely with the Island buried under water. Another thing I thought about was whether the altTimeline might actually be a flash forward in a sense. That it wasn't just The Incident that created this altTimeline, but that it is also a result of whatever the Losties are doing on the Island now in 2007. I don't really support any of these theories, but it popped into my head. Like I said, I did enjoy the altTimeline scenes though, in and of themselves.

I loved how Jack asks for a pen to help unabstruct Charlie's windpipe, mirroring the scene from the first season pilot episode where Boone asks Jack if he needs a pen while Jack is resuscitating Rose. He doesn't have a pen because his pen was stolen by Kate when she bumped into him, which she uses to escape.

I actually really enjoyed Locke and Jack making friends. It was really interesting given that they have been the two characters set in most opposition to each other(man of science, man of faith).

I've been thinking about Juliet's "it worked" line, and how she would know that. And then I thought about what she says right before that, the lines about going out for a cup of coffee, and going dutch. At first I just looked at that as random babble coming from someone who's dying and lost touch with reality. But now I'm thinking it could be that Juliet's consciousness somehow accessed the alternate time line, and that was actually a bit of dialog from her meeting Sawyer for the first time in altTime. Which is why after that she wants to tell him it worked.

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Leonide
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quote:
Since the Island is buried under water we have to assume that the nuke destroyed the Island. This would kill Eloise and unborn Faraday, it would kill Widmore and yet to be born Penny, it would kill Chang(who did not evacuate Leonide), and little Ben and Roger, all of Dharma, all the Others...
I've been thinking about the Island sinking ever since I posted that, and in re-running the scene in my mind where the camera pans over the wreckage in the ocean, and adding in some things I read from Lindelof and Cuse, namely:

quote:
(Damon Lindelof):Should you infer that the detonation of Jughead is what sunk the island? Who knows? But thereís the Foot. What do you get when you see that shot? It looks like New Otherton got built. These little clues [might help you] extrapolate when the Island may have sunk. Start to think about it. A couple of episodes down the road, some of the characters might even discuss it.
italics mine

I've since re-worked my theory. I think that the island did *not* blow-up/sink with the detonation of the nuke. I don't know when it *did* happen, but I think it was afterwards.

Also, does anyone remember, was there a plane in the water in the first moments of that underwater footage? I remember someone I was in the room watching with saying that, but I didn't see it.

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Strider
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I don't know about a plane, but there WAS a shark with the Dharma logo.
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Raymond Arnold
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quote:
Unsurprisingly, I loved every second of the on Island scenes, and was really unhappy with the alternate time line scenes. Interestingly, I actually enjoyed the alttime scenes themselves, I'm just unhappy about their very existence.
I love pretty much everything about the altscenes. The reason I didn't like the "reset everything" option (speculated from last season) was that going back to square one seemed really boring. The way they're executing them, I don't mind that they don't have a clear purpose because they're interesting while they're happening, and they don't take up too much time so they don't distract from the interesting things.

I'm *hoping* that the altscenes continue for the entire season, but that Desmond can time-jump between them to create an eventual plot that ties everything together awesomely at the end. (this is contingent on it being awesome at the end. If the altscenes end up being pointless I'd be just as happy for them to end in a few episodes).

But even if they don't add any "plot" I think they add depth to the characters the same way the original flashbacks did. They don't show you what already happened, but they DO show you what kind of person each character is in ways we haven't seen before.

[ February 03, 2010, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: Raymond Arnold ]

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Leonide
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Possible insight into why Ben had to kill Jacob: (RE: Sayid's Healing) If we go with the assumptions that Jacob is connected to the healing pool in some way (whether anyone else grants that he might be using Sayid as a vessel now), presumably the pool's cloudiness has something to do with Jacob's death. So if Jacob's essence is somehow tied to the pool, that might explain why Ben was able to kill him, needed to be the one who killed him, because he was the only one (that we know of) connected to Jacob physically in some way?
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Geraine
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One question I had about Desmond also though...

Jack seemed to remember him. The question though is....

1) Jack is experiencing Deja Vu and somehow remembers Desmond from the island

or

2) Jack remembers him from the stadium in which he twisted his ankle and Desmond helped him out.

In the Bizarro world, who knows?!?!?!?

The other thing I noticed towards the end of the episode was that right before Sayid woke up the pool seemed to be clear again. At least it looked clear to me.

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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by LargeTuna:


I didn't like it so much. There was so much going on with very little explanation or reason to be attached.

This has been the case for the entire run of the show. The difference in the past has been that there were at least some compelling emotional stories and conflicts. The current conflict, or rather lack of any cohesive reason for *anything* is the problem.

It was totally sub-par. The constant harping on self important "mysterious" characters and oblique dialogue mazes has worn through the story to the point that it seems the writers can't help but write every scene as if they were trying to tell a story through overheard phone conversations. It's all a gimmick because there was never any depth or promise in the mythology anyway, but now they've forgotten how to interest the viewers in any of the perill they create. I watched and just thought, "who cares." Not me.

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Frisco
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The Desmond thing was a little confusing, because when Jack met him in the Swan, he recognized him immediately.

And Shannon isn't on the plane with Boone.

I'm glad we finally got to meet the real Others, and I'm enjoying the new timeline.

And you would think the people who are adopting Claire's baby would at least come pick her up at the airport!

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Strider
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Frisco, I guess in this timeline Jack never met Desmond at the stadium. It's just one of many differences.
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Bokonon
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Also, what's up with Jack having the blood on his neck when in the bathroom?
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Strider
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Guys, the more I think about it, the more I think my theory about Juliet from above is accurate. Especially if Leonide's theory about Desmond time line jumping is correct. Since it seems like Desmond's experience with the failsafe might be similar to Juliet's experience with the nuke.
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Sterling
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Anyone notice Sayid's accent was different when he woke up?

Good gravy, the premiere had an annoying amount of commercials. I honestly wonder if it was really significantly longer than a "standard" episode.

And I would really like it if occasionally we could run into a group of people that didn't have violent hostility towards apparently unarmed and harmless people as a baseline.

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Strider
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Sterling, that had always been my problem with the Others. If they're really in Jacob's favor, why are they such bastards?
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Leonide
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Is Jacob definitely *not* a bastard? [Smile] (i actually mean this question seriously -- he's still a manipulator, even if he ostensibly has hope for humanity)

Screen Shots of the Underwater Portion

If you look at the shots, there's nothing that necessarily shows that the island lasted past the Jughead -- that is, there's nothing in the images that came into being *after* the Incident. The sonic fence is there, Otherton, the statue leg, even the swingset. The only thing that might give a hint as to how long ago the Island fell into the sea (Atlantis, much?) is that....what, the Dharma shark is still swimming around 20 years later? Maybe a bit far-fetched. Sharks are not that territorial, so even if he had lived that long (possible, but the average life-span is under 25 years for a shark)what's he still doing sticking around? Any of this might be chalked up to the nature of the Dharma Initiative's experiments, but it's at least a thought.

[ February 03, 2010, 11:30 PM: Message edited by: Leonide ]

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daventor
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I REALLY enjoyed the season premier and love the alt-timeline concept. But, yeah, the only thing that really bugged me were the scenes with the other Others, not so much due to the violent hostility (though I agree with Sterling on that), but moreso because of their refusal to explain anything to anyone. "Why, yes, I suppose I could explain to you that the pool is meant to heal Sayid, and that being underwater is part of the process, or I could tell you Jack why I want to have a conversation with you, but instead I'd rather be silent, wise, mysterious, and REALLY FRIKKIN' ANNOYING!"

That kind of keep-the-suspense going does get to feel really gimmicky after a while.

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daventor
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Oh, and just a couple of impressions:

I was actually surprised how much fun I had watching Sawyer back in full-on-jerk mode in the alt-time line. As far as the regular Sawyer, I'm really glad the "I'm gonna kill him" didn't become the actual storyline, otherwise, yeah, it'd be hard for me to keep up sympathy for Sawyer. Also, I wonder why Juliet told Sawyer she wanted it to be that he never came to the island. His life was pretty much plain crap before it.

I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for alt-Kate. Girl, you MURDERED a guy. Yeah, he was a bad man, but it was still a MURDER. Face the consequences instead of causing harm to innocent people all the time as you try to avoid arrest (that's the main part that bugs me about her running from the law).

Explanations I hope they'll cover but fear they won't:
-In an earlier season Juliet hinted that she had done something really terrible in her past and didn't deserve sympathy. What was it?
-What was the psychiatrist lady's (who was in the asylum with Hurley, then gave the boat to Desmond, then was murdered in Season 2) story and connection to it all?
-What changed Daniel Farraday's mind about being able to alter time (actually, I think there's still a good chance this will get covered)?

Final thoughts: I REALLY, REALLY hope Ben dies before this season is over. After so many good characters have died really tragic, horrible deaths (though with Lost you can never know for sure if they're dead-dead) I'll be really ticked if that psychopathic rodent is still breathing when it's all done.

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Strider
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quote:
Also, I wonder why Juliet told Sawyer she wanted it to be that he never came to the island. His life was pretty much plain crap before it.
Last season Juliet said that if Sawyer never came to the Island it would mean Juliet would never have to go through the pain of losing him.
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Sterling
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quote:
Originally posted by daventor:
But, yeah, the only thing that really bugged me were the scenes with the other Others, not so much due to the violent hostility (though I agree with Sterling on that), but moreso because of their refusal to explain anything to anyone.

A tendency which has, at this point, been responsible for at least one death. There comes a point where it becomes glaringly obvious that information is being withheld not because of any credible reasons for the character to do so but merely because the show relies on such contrivances to maintain tension.
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Frisco
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I like how Hurley's so comfortable talking to dead Jacob.

"I died an hour ago."

"Sorry, dude. That sucks."



Do we have an ID on the book that Kate pulled out of the dead guy's pocket while she was looking for matches?

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Leonide
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Fear and Trembling, by Soren Kierkegaard.

And on the plane, Desmond was reading Hauron and the Sea of Stories by Salman Rushdie -- the defining sentence of which appears to be "What's the use of stories that aren't even true?"

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Leonide
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quote:
Originally posted by Sterling:
And I would really like it if occasionally we could run into a group of people that didn't have violent hostility towards apparently unarmed and harmless people as a baseline.

It's like the Man in Black said: "Get used to disappointment."

Oops -- wrong Man in Black. [Smile]

What I actually meant to say was: "They come, they fight, they destroy, they corrupt."

Just because they're on Jacob's side doesn't mean they're good people -- Jacob's been trying to prove the MiB wrong for centuries. [Smile]

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Geraine
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quote:
Originally posted by Frisco:
I like how Hurley's so comfortable talking to dead Jacob.

"I died an hour ago."

"Sorry, dude. That sucks."



Hurley is one of the few characters I absolutely care about. If Jack or Kate died before the end of the show, I'd get over it pretty quickly, but if Hurley ever died, I would be angry. Hurley has progressed from a guy that thought he had bad luck and mental disabilities to someone who has accepted who he is. Libby helped him in this manner and to a lesser extent Charlie. It almost makes me wonder if Libby knew about Hurley's gift. I think Hurley was not alarmed when Jacob showed up because he has accepted who he is.

I think that since Hurley has the power to see and speak to dead people, Mile's power is just a weak copycat. I foresee his demise in a future episode.

Now Desmond ... That is a little more difficult. I think I agree with Desmond traveling between the different time lines trying fix things.

Does anyone see any similarities between this show and JJ's other show Fringe? Alternate timelines, people that can travel between them trying to fix things(Desmond/Olivia), and some mysterious guy that shows up every once in a while and keeps tabs on people.

I think it would be funny if at some point we find out that the Dharma Initiative became or was funded by Massive Dynamics. [Big Grin]

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Strider
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Okay, some new thoughts. For anyone that read that huge post of mine where I talk about Jacob and Esau, you'll remember I talked about Jacob's ability to see the future, his interference in people's lives, and its relationship to course correcting. Also, on this page I talked about the degree of specificity involved in Jacob's knowledge to have that List ready for the Other Others given how many events(including time jumping) occurred before the Losties could arrive there.

So given that, I just had another thought occur to me. Jacob saved Sayid's life when Nadia was run over by the car. Maybe Sayid was "supposed" to die, but Jacob's interference allowed him to live long enough to come back to the Island, and when he was dying again Jacob was able to use his body as a vessel. So the universe course corrected, but Jacob's action was able to make enough of a change that Sayid's death filled a greater purpose, similarly to how the universe kept course correcting for Charlie, but though Desmond's actions Charlie was able to stay alive long enough to fill an important purpose.

Even if Jacob is not Sayid, I do think there is something more to the fact that Jacob saved Sayid's life and Sayid's current situation in the Temple.

Also, Sterling, I just rewatched that end scene, and I think you're right. Sayid DOES seem to have lost his accent.

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Uprooted
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Oh dear, I love Sayid's accent. I didn't notice it but if he's now going to sound like Jacob, I'll be sad. Esau looks and sounds just like John Locke.

Does anybody remember or has anyone re-watched the scene where Sayid was talking to Hurley outside the van? I think Hurley had been reassuring him that he'd be fine. Sayid then talked about the torturing and murders he'd done and said he didn't think wherever he was going would be a very nice place. But he said something immediately before that which apparently introduced that line of thinking and I didn't catch what it was. Did he ask Hurley to do something for him? Anyone?

I think the whole idea of Jacob interfering with Sayid's death for long enough to get him to the island to die w/ a purpose makes sense. I also think the theory that Juliet was seeing altSawyer and altJuliet makes a lot more sense out of her comments than I was able to come up w/ on my own.

And I love the idea that Hurley has come into a full form of the ability that is only hinted at in Miles.

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solo
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Am I the only one who thinks that alt-Jack (in the plane didn't crash storyline) remembers everything about the island and crash? Everything about how he behaved on the plane and how he looked at all of the survivors showed recognition. I think Jack is going to be the big link between the time lines, along with Desmond.
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Strider
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uprooted, I think it was just something along the lines of "where do you think I'll end up".

solo, it does seem like Jack has some sort of recognition, but I don't really think it's quite as much as you say. More like deja-vu, than memory.

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Strider
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also, Miles' ability and Hurley's are different enough that I think they serve different functions. While Hurley is able to have full conversations with people, he has to wait for them to come and talk to him. Miles is limited in the amount of information he can get, but as long as he is near the body, he seems to be able to access that information at will.

It seems like Miles' ability works along the lines of a mix of consciousness jumping and time jumping. Consciousness because he is able to access their thoughts, and time jumping because it's only at a specific time right before death.

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Leonide
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quote:
Originally posted by Strider:

Also, Sterling, I just rewatched that end scene, and I think you're right. Sayid DOES seem to have lost his accent.

I think that's just a trick of the nature of the words -- in the Sneak Preview (you might have to watch a promo first) he sounds the same.
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Jay
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Why does Desmond have to be traveling between time lines? I might have missed something, but I just assumed since he didnít get trapped on the island that he was in Sidney from an around the world travel or something.
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Raymond Arnold
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Does he have to be? No. Is it way way cooler if he is, providing a mechanism to link the two timelines and create an overarching story? Definitely.
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Strider
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What Raymond said. Also the fact that he shows up out of nowhere, disappears, and no one else saw him other than Jack is making many of us think there is something more to his presence.
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The Rabbit
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quote:
Originally posted by Leonide:
quote:
Originally posted by Strider:

Also, Sterling, I just rewatched that end scene, and I think you're right. Sayid DOES seem to have lost his accent.

I think that's just a trick of the nature of the words -- in the Sneak Preview (you might have to watch a promo first) he sounds the same.
I'm with Leonide on this. I listened to it again and I heard the accent. Its simply less evident because of the way the words are drawn out.

[ February 04, 2010, 02:53 PM: Message edited by: The Rabbit ]

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solo
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quote:
Originally posted by Strider:
solo, it does seem like Jack has some sort of recognition, but I don't really think it's quite as much as you say. More like deja-vu, than memory.

Having thought about it a little more, especially given his interaction with Desmond, I think you could be right. While I was watching it I thought his hesitance was more testing the waters to see if the other people remembered but the conversation with Desmond seems to support a deja-vu possibility more.

I think it's his comment to Rose - "Looks like we made it", and his tension during the turbulence that best support the idea that he remembers the crash.

[ February 04, 2010, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: solo ]

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Geraine
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Well, Desmond's consciousness has already been able to travel through time, but we assume that his travels only took place in a single time line.

Now it seems a new time line has been created. Since it is an off shoot of the existing time line, it is possible that Desmond is able to move his consciousness between these as well.

I am still not convinced Jack has a knowledge of the crash in the bizarro time line. I think it is more like the Star Trek episode with the time loop. Jack has a strange sense of deja vu but not an exact knowledge of why.

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docmagik
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I'd have a hard time buying it if they tried to reveal later that Jack remembers everything. He's too anxious to get his father's funeral over with, like he would have been in the original timeline, but I don't think he'd still have been in as much of a hurry if he remembered the alt timeline, where the funeral already took place and he'd had that closure.

I guess it could be possible that he's talking out of frustration that he doesn't want to have to go through all that again, but it still just doesn't seem to fit for me.

For me, all the big character revelations and twists in this episode were about Locke.

Not only do we find out that MIB played him as much as his Dad did, but there's the possibility that he could have got just as healed by Jack (the guy he's been fighting) as the island healed him, without having to get played.

That is a HUGE punctuation mark at the end of his story arc if it turns out to be true. To me, it was the biggest twist, and most jaw-dropping moment of the premeire. Amidst all the questions about the smoke monster and time travel and who is making the food drops, to me one of the biggest questions of the show has been, "Is Locke's faith going to pay off?"

The way this premiere answered that question with such a resounding "NO" was a bigger shock to me--who had hoped the answer would be yes--than anything that may or may not be going on with Desmond.

All he ever wanted was to be special and loved and important, but it looks like being humble and calling Jack for help is going to be where his real salvation is going to lie.

I think I agree that Juliet will prove to be reality-hopping. Just like Desmond's presence at the destruction of the hatch sent him hopping through a single lifetime, Juliet's proximity to "the incident" will send her reality hopping.

Yeah, like I said. My new favorite episode. I guess I can get that some people don't dig it so much, but it seems to me part of the issue--like with the Locke thing--is that the characters can't be impacted by certain events because they don't know how significant they are. So they're not getting emotionally impacted--we are.

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solo
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quote:
Originally posted by docmagik:
I'd have a hard time buying it if they tried to reveal later that Jack remembers everything. He's too anxious to get his father's funeral over with, like he would have been in the original timeline, but I don't think he'd still have been in as much of a hurry if he remembered the alt timeline, where the funeral already took place and he'd had that closure.

I don't know. His father's body wasn't at that funeral either. If he does remember, then he knows that the casket and body were on the plane in the original time line when it crashed. That, along with wanting everything to go smoothly for the other family members attending the funeral would be enough for him to get anxious about the body in my opinion.

I could go with him not having perfect recollection but I really hope they aren't going to tell us that people's personalities are changed in this other time line. Why is Jack perfectly calm about the turbulence in the crash time line and yet freaking out in the alt time line? I think the only reason Rose wasn't freaking out in the alt time line is because Jack was and so she stayed calm for him.

Charlie taking his drugs in the alt time line could just have more to do with the less severe turbulence - that would explain his different choice.

The biggest problems with this is Hurley not having bad luck in this version of events - this probably because of the island influences and Shannon not being on the plane. I don't think that Locke actually got to go on the walkabout - him telling Boone that he had was just his pride.

I am fully prepared to be wrong about all of this. I've been wrong about lots of stuff regarding Lost but they usually do something cool with it that I enjoy so I'll trust them for now. I don't think they'll explain everything but they have said they will explain the character centric stuff and that should be enough for me.

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docmagik
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Yeah, I agree. At this point it's not about being right or wrong. It's just about having fun playing with the mystery.

While I doubt Jack remembers the alt timeline, I don't doubt they want us to be talking about whether or not Jack remembers the alt timeline. This is a big chunk of the fun of the show--just shooting the breeze about whether this or that happened, or about whether this or that is GOING to happen.

The question is how, if they aren't going to use Flashbacks, they're going to show why certain people behaved differently.

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Raymond Arnold
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quote:
Not only do we find out that MIB played him as much as his Dad did, but there's the possibility that he could have got just as healed by Jack (the guy he's been fighting) as the island healed him, without having to get played.

That is a HUGE punctuation mark at the end of his story arc if it turns out to be true. To me, it was the biggest twist, and most jaw-dropping moment of the premeire. Amidst all the questions about the smoke monster and time travel and who is making the food drops, to me one of the biggest questions of the show has been, "Is Locke's faith going to pay off?"

I somehow managed to not grasp this while I was watching it the first time, but yeah this strikes me as a big deal. Difference being, I always DID think Locke was being rather naive and silly. I didn't wish him ill because I felt like he did deserve better and I can't blame him for wanting to be special, but in real life I don't think making such important decisions based on blind faith is a good idea at all.
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The Reader
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This is one of the few times I have been completely baffled by Lost. The Island's being underwater is simply stunning. I can't think of any reason that would happen, except Jughead of course. The alternate timeline has my jaw on the floor.

I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but I wonder if the alternate timeline where the plane doesn't crash is the original timeline. I have no way of provong this, and I don't think it's true. If it is, then maybe Juliet has the (possible) ability to cross universes, and will do so to set things right.

The whispers apeared again. In my opinion, they are now the biggest mystery, because they don't even seem to have an origin or explanation.

Smokey is very close to being explained. I used to scoff at this, but it may very well be an alien, and the Island is its ship.

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