In other news, I'm going to give the alt-WotF crit group a try this quarter, so I'm out over here. Good luck, everyone!

Speaking of that are we splitting into groups or is the number small enough to send to everyone? Or are there even more people taking a bye this quarter or going to the revolting, um, that is rebellious group?

Is there a distribution list made up?

Remember the first rule of writing... Write!

I think Dan needs to divide the groups up, or we could just divide it as well. Since there are 10 people, the first 5 could send to each other and the second 5 could do the same, as done in previous groups.

I have mine done but as I said before I'm going back over it adding some stuff for an emotional punch--I hope-- and revising as I go along. And I ended up changing a couple of details which means I am doing more revision than usual as I change conversations and descriptions. I plan to have it done Sunday night at the latest. I can receive stories before then

Could have been done by now but played around too much instead of writing, as I mentioned on another thread, and my wife has been putting new pics up for her site on an online mall... mostly me not writing.

Oh and so far mine is 5,600 words long. Might be over a few over 6,000 by the time I get done.

Group 1:
WriterDan
Anarresti
Utahute72
Dark Warrior
mbwood

Group 2:
LDWriter
Osiris
Owasm
Bent Tree
Brendan

So, even though my story for this quarter isn't done, my dissertation is nearly complete. Which is a good thing. As my final deadline is just around the corner.

So I found another rule that WotF didn't mind being broken. Hiding something from the readers and/or not being clear who was who in the first couple of pages.

Don't want to go into too much detail but in one story you don't find out who the MC is for sure for a few paragraphs... unless I missed something of course. Second you don't find out the driver of an ambassador is a Lt. in the Marines for a few pages. She is just thought of as the driver by the MC. Over all not a bad story at all I liked it except for one little detail toward the end. Or there is something else hidden from the reader until the end too.

Second item: does anyone know what they think of stories in different times? Obviously they don't mind futuristic times but how about a western--SF fusion or fantasy-western? I came up with an idea today about a Urban Fantasy that takes place in the 1800s. I thought it might be a good WotF story because it's more about a guy teaching a kid why he shouldn't bully others. So it's more an emotional and relational story than a Fantasy.

Actually, I wanted a UF western but as I went over it in my mind it came out differently what I was going for. Still a good idea though.

As to the swapping thing

Do we have to trade car keys for it???

I think I recognize that first story you mention, but I didn't think the technique of waiting to reveal who a secondary character was seemed too out of place.

quote:

---

Don't want to go into too much detail but in one story you don't find out who the MC is for sure for a few paragraphs... unless I missed something of course. Second you don't find out the driver of an ambassador is a Lt. in the Marines for a few pages. She is just thought of as the driver by the MC.

---

If we're thinking of the same story, I read the italicized paragraph as I would a quote; it shouldn't bear the burden of identifying the MC, setting up the story, etc. I think the story could have survived without it personally, but it was one of the stronger stories (IMO) in the volume.

For me, witholding is about two things:

1. Am I correctly inhabiting the mindset of the POV character?
2. Am I playing fair with the reader's expectations?

In relation to point 1, I believe the story you're thinking of did both 1. and 2. In relation to point 1, we generally don't think of people as "doctor", etc. We're more likely to think of them by their name and this story does that. The military designation comes up in dialogue doesn't it?

In point 2, I don't believe any POV witholding is done with the intention of tricking or manipulating the reader for story effect. I can't remember the story exactly, but I generally remembered that the character thought of facts as they would naturally occur to them.

Regards,

I got a piece from Utahute72, and I've distributed my submission to the group. If anyone didn't receive it or had trouble opening it, please let me know ASAP.

Other than that, I'm ready to crit pieces for the Wotf 2012 Q1 contest.

I've critiqued and returned Owasm's and Louis's. Please let me know if you did not get it, as I've had issues with sending mail.

I've sent mine out to everyone in my group.

But I did send one out tonight and I have received four stories. But I believe two are from the other group. Even though I still haven't sent my story to anyone over there.

I've sent out my piece and received one from Utahute72.

I'm still waiting for stories from WriterDan, Anarresti and Dark Warrior. C'mon, show me your stuff! Let's get something good going!

I have a story I thought I might ask to share with you for Q1 2012, now that I've received initial feedback this week and finished the final proofread last evening.

But it is the same type of story I submitted in Q4 2011 (with the same protagonist) that just received a "form" rejection.

I believe I'll need to do a Monty Python: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxNyoAMqRXQ

I believe to place or win, short unique (preferably futuristic) science fiction (not long urban fantasy) is a better bet. If I think of something, then actually write it, I'll be back.

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob

At the end of a quarter, you've already sent in your next story. You haven't started the next-next one, so when you get rejected, you can change your way of thinking if you'd like and go from there.

But 3 weeks into the next quarter and you probably have a solid foundation for your current story, possibly even a first draft. The last thing you want to do is wake up at 5am in the dark and cold and sit in front of the computer and write a story for the same folks who just told you no. (At least, not for a day or two.)

Dr. Bob. You can write. It's that simple. If your story didn't click, it was the story, or the genre, or something tangible like that, but it wasn't your writing.

Always remember, Dr. Phil received a rejection(s) after being a finalist. He's been entering nearly 10 years now. He's gotten everything you can get from them but a win. And I mean everything, including published finalist. So the rejection was clearly not his writing...

Urban fantasy is probably the kicker. I can only think of one story that even comes close, and it had something to do with the shadows of the dead from the holocaust. That was urban. And it was kind of a fantasy, but it wasn't urban fantasy.

If you decide not to send a 2nd one of that genre to them, that's fine, but please don't send nothing because you think your writing isn't good enough. It totally is, and there's a bunch of us here who can attest to that.

Did you see the post Jennifer put up recently about the guy who just pro'd out? He straight up sold a rejection to another market.

Anyway, sorry to hear about the form letter. Give it a little time then write an urban fantasy on another planet. That will increase your odds.

When seeking publication, it is also important to study what an editor likes and publishes. I read two WOTF antholgies after I submitted my story for Q4 and have read and/or critiqued some of the fine stories that were Winners and/or Finalists for Q2 and Q3. The UF I've mostly been writing, I believe, is not WOTF material, even if the writing and story were (hopefully) adequate.

In addition, as the "Cool Kids" will tell you, short stories are preferred over longer lengths. A quick search at Duotrope will confirm only F&SF will consider fantasy stories of >10K, and most of these by established authors. The self-centered concept that I will write what I want, for my own enjoyment, is fine; but if I want to have others actually read my work, then I need more discipline and pay more attention to what the editors/publishers accept.

I put aside my second novel to write shorter pieces in the belief that publishing short stories would better open doors to publishing novels. These are two different beasts, however. Nick Tchan kindkly read my newest (12K) story this week; and he astutely notes my novelettes demonstrate a novelist's and not a short story writer's technique; for example, a slowly rising (even undulating) tension/pacing instead of the short storyist's steady incessant building to climax.
I'm big on foreplay, I guess.

My UF tales follow a detective fiction trope as well, where the story begins with something happening to someone else (a client, friend, victim) and not the protagonist. Only later, after taking the case, does the hero face personal risk/conflcit. This is fine for longer novels, not so good for short stories.

Thus, I'm going to try something completely different for my next WOTF submission. I do have a science background along with my religious one. I'll try mixing the two in a future setting.

As for my UF stories, I don't know what I'll do yet. If anyone would like to read the UF tale I've just completed, just let me know.

Thank you for the feedback.

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob

Okay I've sent two crits for this group, but I have received only two stories again from this group. I think I have one other crit to do for the other group and I will be done with everything I have.

I did manage to critique work from LDWriter and Owasm and also received critiques from them.