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Probably round ligament (though Doctors tend to poohpooh any pain as round ligament lol) But if the other pain is bad and on the right side, gallbladder problems are common in pregnancy. Also, hernias. But if this is your first baby it's probably not a hernia. Since it comes and goes and isn't too too bad, it probably is round ligament.
Posts: 31 | Registered: Aug 2007
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I get "round ligament" pain all the time and everywhere once I hit about 13 weeks. I wouldn't be surprised if that's what it is. Also just funky nerve pains because my joints stretch, pull a muscle out of whack, and then a nerve gets pinched. Ick.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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I talked to the nurse, who was talking to the doctor in the background. He said that there was some muscle (I think it was a muscle) in that area and behind the bellybutton, which even extends to the bladder, and that's it often starts hurting around the 16th week, if it's going to hurt at all. And it's nothing to worry about, so yay! Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Boon
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On another note, I had an ultrasound on August 2, which was at 12 weeks based on my LMP (due 2-14-2008). OB says I measured 13w5d, so he moved my due date FORWARD 13 days to 2-27-2008. Shouldn't it have been moved BACKWARDS instead, if at all, or am I crazy?
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quote:Originally posted by Boon: On another note, I had an ultrasound on August 2, which was at 12 weeks based on my LMP (due 2-14-2008). OB says I measured 13w5d, so he moved my due date FORWARD 13 days to 2-27-2008. Shouldn't it have been moved BACKWARDS instead, if at all, or am I crazy?
Whoope, I just realized that you said the u/s was on August 2nd...ignore what I said before if you read it....yeah, your doctor is messed up. You should be due Feb. 2...here's a good calculator so you can check the dates...it goes forwards and backwards and tells you how far along you are...
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Don't correct him. You just got an extra 13 days (or 26, depending on how you look at it) before your doctor wants to rule out the possibility of VBAC. Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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Boon
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Hehehe, that's exactly what I'm thinking. Unfortunately, he'll have another opportunity to correct his mistake at my next appointment, since he wants to do the "20 week ultrasound" then (I'll be 22 1/2 weeks by LMP then, and will probably have a 24 week baby. )
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It sounds to me like you need to find another OB (again.) *sigh*
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Boon
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Nah, I'm done doctor shopping. I've found a midwife who will act as doula for me if I decide to go to the hospital at all.
I know it will sound crazy to most everyone here, but I'm seriously considering homebirth at this point. It's not that I don't think I might need a doctor, or that I absolutely hate hospitals or anything like that...I've just come to the realization that I most likely won't need any interventions and don't want to fight over every little thing while I'm in labor. And I'm not that far from the hospital (same one we went to while you were here, kq) if something should happen to warrant medical intervention.
And before anyone jumps on me for "taking chances" or whatever, I'm making an informed decision. And I haven't completely decided yet. So, there it is.
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Boon, I'm fairly certain at least one family on here has had a homebirth (possibly two). You are making the decision right for you.
Posts: 5362 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Boon, I think that's a great option as long as you take the proper precautions (ie have a trained midwife attending your birth who will know if/when you need the hospital down the road). My MIL had a home birth for 3 of her 6 kids and swears by them. If it weren't for my desperate desire to get an epidural...
I ran across a woman on a mothering board who I thought was nuts -- decided for her 5th child (3 and 4 were c-sections) that she was done with doctors, midwives, prenatal care, and all interventions. She was going to do it herself at home.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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I think that might be a good idea if you just can't find a doctor/hospital that will respect your wishes.
Also remember that if you go into labor and something doesn't feel right, any hospital you go to MUST admit you and respect your treatment wishes (meaning no section until you say so) once you are in active labor. So, if you, say, decided to see a midwife for your prenatal care, but decided once you were in labor that you didn't feel right about the homebirth, you could change your mind.
I know two women personally who have had successful home VBACs. Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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(My one biggest concern is that you have support. If your family was having problems with a hospital VBAC, what are they going to say about a home VBAC?
I'll tell you what. If they don't support you, come out here, and you can have the baby with us. )
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Boon, I'm sorry your doctors/hospitals make you fight for every little thing. That does not sound fun! I've been given pretty much free reign to do whatever I darn well please. I'm sorry more doctors/hospitals are not like that.
As for me, I've decided that if I go into labor on my own, to do a VBAC. If I don't go into labor, I have a c-section scheduled for October 8th. My doctor offered to induce me. I don't think I'm comfortable with that when it comes to VBAC. I don't mind if I need pitocin to keep my labor going if I go into labor on my own, but it scares me to induce labor using it when I've had a c-section before. We decided if we're going to schedule something, it's going to be a repeat C, not an induction.
Since I'm technically full term (although not 40 weeks) I'm working my reflexology points to try and stimulate labor. Hopefully it will help get things going and give my body the best chance of actually going into labor on it's own. We'll see if it works!
Posts: 161 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Good to know! Thanks for the advice. I'll get right on that. Seriously, even if it is nasty. I'll try it!
Posts: 161 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Yeah, it's apparently an old Mexican midwives' folk remedy for women who are overdue or whose labor is not progressing.
It did get me thinning and dilating, like I said, so I was ready to be induced when they wanted to induce me without additional intervention.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Boon, my Mum had my brother at home (not VBAC), but second child after one hospital birth (me, 6.5 years earlier)
She had midwives, it went brilliantly - she went into labour sometime in the night, Joe was born at 5am ( I remember going to sleep and all was normal, and being woken to see the birth - I cut the cord.)
The biggest thing for her was having very competent midwives, and a very good hospital nearby, if needs be.
(I should also say - my Mum is a doctor - she knew the risks, and judged them worthwhile. She really wanted the homebirth experience.)
Posts: 4393 | Registered: Aug 2003
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It's funny - the more I read this thread, the more I remember how atypical my pregnancy was and how atypical the next one will be, even if I go to term. No cumin tea for me - they'll be double-stitching my cervix shut at 13 weeks. I'll also be getting weekly blood tests and shots, so I'll get junkie arm again (I have very weak veins). Yet I'm still so excited to have another baby.
Boon, is there a middle ground that everyone would feel comfortable with? I have a couple of friends who went to birthing centers and loved them. They had a more home-like environment and optional birthing tubs and a full midwife and nursing staff. They also had full-time emergency transport to a hospital available. It seemed really ideal. I'm sorry that you have to be so stressed out during your pregnancy.
Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
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This isn't really about me, but I'm so excited that I wanted to share with people who will appreciate it.
My sister-in-law and good friend is due with her second in October. She delivered her first baby without an epidural, but there were many things about the birth that she didn't like and would do differently now. Basically, she felt like the birth was a lot more painful and a lot less natural than it needed to be. (One thing she hated was the fact that her doctor induced her just because she [the doctor] was going on vacation and didn't want the baby to come while she was gone.)
Anyway, she'd heard about hypnobirthing from a friend and was very interested in learning more about it. She has now read a book on hypnobirthing, and she and her husband are going to classes. I've been interested to see how her birth experience goes this time.
The exciting part is that I was browsing Craigslist the other day and found a listing for free services from a doula-in-training who is also a licensed hypnobirthing specialist. I immediately thought of my sister-in-law, who not only is trying to improve her second birth with hypnobirthing, but who is very poor. I called her and told her about the listing, and she emailed the lady. My sister-in-law has now heard back, and she has a hypnobirthing specialist doula-in-training scheduled to be there when the baby comes! She also gets a consultation before the birth and one after.
I'm so excited for her! I mean, even if this lady is a bad doula because of inexperience, she's still a hypnobirthing specialist. And I think it will be nice to have someone to insist on following the birth plan when the doctors get pushy and mama's concentrating on getting through contractions.
Posts: 1903 | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Brinestone: One thing she hated was the fact that her doctor induced her just because she [the doctor] was going on vacation and didn't want the baby to come while she was gone.
Um, yeah. Time for a new doctor. It's one thing to schedule an induction when the mother and doctor are in agreement. For the doctor to press for one for his/her own convenience when the mother wants to go natural is just . . . just . . . Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Brinestone: One thing she hated was the fact that her doctor induced her just because she [the doctor] was going on vacation and didn't want the baby to come while she was gone.
Um, yeah. Time for a new doctor. It's one thing to schedule an induction when the mother and doctor are in agreement. For the doctor to press for one for his/her own convenience when the mother wants to go natural is just . . . just . . .
As far as I can tell, this is very, VERY common practice nowadays. I've talked to half a dozen OB's in the recent past and ALL of them would induce so that they would be there for the birth rather than having you get whoever was on call. OB's just don't work 24/7 anymore. They have office hours and they take turns being on call with other doctors in their practice or hospital.
The key for a patient is that they can always refuse to do the induction and go with the on-call doctor whenever the baby decides to come. But seeing how common this practice is, I can't honestly say it's time to get rid of the doctor for it. More like, make sure you know what you want and demand it.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:For the doctor to press for one for his/her own convenience when the mother wants to go natural is just . . . just . . . --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As far as I can tell, this is very, VERY common practice nowadays. I've talked to half a dozen OB's in the recent past and ALL of them would induce so that they would be there for the birth rather than having you get whoever was on call. OB's just don't work 24/7 anymore. They have office hours and they take turns being on call with other doctors in their practice or hospital.
I don't know about that. It certainly hasn't been my experience, either in Roanoke or in Richmond. My cousins have had a lot of babies in Georgia, too, and they've never had those issues, either. When I was in the hospital with Aerin, my OB came every day at 7am before her office hours and at 7pm when she left for the day. She came every weekend day, too. She even brought her own 9-month-old baby when she had to, which I really enjoyed. She also came to see me every night she was on call. Not to mention the times she rushed up from her office when I had emergencies.
I would have switched doctors in skinny minute if he wanted to induce me for his own convenience. I think it is vitally important to have a good relationship with your OB and no one should ever settle for any less.
Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
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I wouldn't dump a doctor who said, "I'll be leaving on vacation next week, so we can either induce labor this week or you can meet Dr. Z who will be on-call while I'm gone." It doesn't sound like Brinestone's sister-in-law was given that option. (Obviously she could have refused the induction, but that might not have been obvious to her as a young mom having her first baby.)
A doctor who said, "I'm going to be leaving on vacation next week, so we'll schedule your induction for Thursday" would not be my doctor after that statement.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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I actually called every OB group on my health insurance and they all worked the same way -- regular office hours and rotating on-call. They also were all quite happy to induce to guarantee that they would deliver your baby. BUT no, there was no forcing the issue. I guess I didn't read Brinestone's post that way. I assumed it was part of the standard operating procedure I have (unfortunately) become familiar with in this area. That's why, in the end, I went with a small 2-person practice so at least I would know who would be on-call if my doctor couldn't make my labor.
Mrs. M -- I'm jealous! I would love it to work like that. I think small town vs. big city has a lot to do with it. My husband is a small town boy and he was absolutely appalled when he found out how things worked around here. He was the one who insisted I call around until I found someone who did things the right way.
The only other thing it might be, other than small town/big city, is an insurance limitation. They like the big groups because they charge less for the less personal service.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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My doctor was delivering about 12 babies the day I was in (and 10 the day before) when I had Bridey because he had scheduled a bunch of c-sections and inductions for the week before he left for a one-week vacation. BUT I am sure he presented each patient with options-- "I can induce you now, or you can wait until I get back and take your chances with the on-call doc if you go into labor" (or have a different doc do your c-section for those ladies who were planning a section and it was time-sensitive.) Now, I am a special case because all his partners are women and he knows I have a phobia of being seen undressed by a female doctor. So he phrased it a bit differently for me: "I'm going out of town. We'd talked about inducing you, and I think this is the time to do it, because I know you don't want to see my partners, and I'm worried you might go into labor while I'm gone." But the spirit of the statement was the same (and I love that he is willing to take my needs into account even though they're irrational and strange. On occasion he even interrupted a family event to come treat me even though he was NOT the doctor on call because he knew I could not handle being treated by his partners. He gave me his cell phone number for the weekends his partners were on call. I love my doctor.)
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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I read on another forum where a woman is 4 days from her due date, and since the baby had shown no signs of arriving, she was scheduling an induction for her due date.
I didn't say anything, since I haven't given birth yet, and what do I know, right? But I hear that induced labor is much more painful than natural labor, and I can't understand going through that just because you're tired of being pregnant. I figure if the baby hasn't come yet, it's because it's not done yet!
No one will be inducing me. No way, uh uh. Well, unless there was a big emergency that was threatening the life of my baby. But that's the ONLY way. I don't care if the little one is weeks late. I'm fairly sure it'll come when it's ready.
Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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In principle I agree with you. But more because of the "baby will come when s/he's ready part" than the "why would you want to go through that" part. Because by two weeks before due date I was ready to go through just about anything to get that kid out of there. Fortunately he was ready too and I went into labor that weekend.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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I haven't gotten to that point in my pregnancy...I imagine I'll want to get it over with, too. I've just made the decision now to resist that impulse.
Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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I was induced two days after my due date, not because I was late, but because my water had broken hours before and I was still not having contractions hard enough to feel.
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I think that's a little different, though. Once your water breaks, you're pretty much stuck, right? If labor isn't progressing, you've got to do something.
Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by dkw: In principle I agree with you. But more because of the "baby will come when s/he's ready part" than the "why would you want to go through that" part. Because by two weeks before due date I was ready to go through just about anything to get that kid out of there. Fortunately he was ready too and I went into labor that weekend.
For me it was more than that. I had contractions for about three weeks before my due date -- I guess they were the false labor pains but they felt pretty real and they came regularly every 20 minutes for about 2 weeks. It was making me crazy, physically and emotionally, so my doctor scheduled an induction the day after my due date. Turns out to have been unnecessary because I happened to go into labor for real that day, but still....it also didn't help that it was the week before Thanksgiving and I didn't want to be in the hospital over the Holidays.
Assuming that this one sticks (and it's so early it's still a very big risk) then I am going to try my hardest to be more patient this time. Not because it turned out to be a problem or anything (like I said....coincidence....that was when the baby wanted to come anyway) but because I think it's probably better for the baby to let him/her decide.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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I had contractions for two weeks with my first, with minimal progress. Meaning some but not "enough" to be in "active labor". I mean, every 10 minutes for 2 WEEKS. And painful. Painful enough I couldn't talk through them.
I was induced 2 days after my "due date" (which turned out to be waaay off; they said she would have had problems if they waited longer) because I was so uncomfortable and she was pretty big. Come to find out, I just don't progress without pain relief. That's just how my body works.
With Bridget, shw was measuring even bigger than Emma. (She was indeed an inch longer when she was born.) When I started having the annoying contractions (this time 2.5 weeks before my due date) I explained the situation to my doctor, who said, "I'm going out of town. Let's do it tomorrow."
I am totally fine with that. And actually, I am okay with the fact that I will probably be induced every time.
Once I get my epidural the pitocin works FAST. It's kinda neat to be able to know what day the baby will come. Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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I don't know what I'll do about induction. I'd rather wait for the baby, if possible. On the other hand, I'm not opposed. I really, really like my doctor, and if a scheduled induction means I get to have him at the labor and birth, then it might be worth it. I'm probably going to have an epidural, too...definitely not against it, anyway!
On a slightly different note:
My due date(s) are 1/15, 1/17, and 1/21. At this point I'm planning to go back to work in January (1/2) after Christmas break, and work basically just as long as I can in order to save my sick days for after the baby comes. (I'm taking the rest of the school year off, so I'll be taking about 60 days without pay.)
My question is: Am I going to be so incredibly uncomfortable/ tired in my last few weeks of pregnancy that I should just forget about coming back after Christmas break? (We get out 12/22). This is my first, so I have no idea. I've had a wonderful pregnancy so far, and I'm so full of energy it's hard for me to keep things in perspective.
Posts: 834 | Registered: Jun 2005
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I'm not sure about induction either. While I would love for her to just "come when she's ready" I also loathe the idea of spending Christmas in the hospital (and possibly with an unknown doctor) if she doesn't (since I'm due 12/18). I plan to discuss the issue with my doctor at my next appointment and see what he says. If I'm really lucky she'll come a couple days early or right on time and it won't be an issue.
I'm unsure about an epidural also. Having never done this before, I have no idea what my labor will be like, so I don't know ahead of time what to think about pain management. While I'm not against it, I don't feel comfortable counting on having one ahead of time.
Good luck deciding about work Liz and congratulations of being full of energy (I'm totally jealous)! I have known women from both extremes - ones that worked right up until they go into labor and others that were so miserable for their last few weeks that it was impossible to work. Personally, I am planning to quit working the middle of November so that I can have the time I want to prepare (that I don't feel I can do right now) and since my work can be physically demanding.
All you pregnant ladies with colds - what have you done to help feel better? I ended up with my usual vacation cold on Saturday and am trying hard not to be miserable. The sinus congestion and sneezing is now leading to my usual coughing (yay for hypersensitive lungs) and I'm sleeping so poorly it's hard to function.
Posts: 5879 | Registered: Apr 2001
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I had three weeks of labor before I induced. As far as the pain, as long as you are getting an epidural, it is all good. There are a bunch of complications that can arise if you are overdue. My sister turned out fine, but she came out a little burnt. The placenta starts to degrade and fluids can thin out. I think inducing at 36 weeks is crazy, but 39-41 weeks makes sense. My doctor told me that 41 weeks is when he induces. If I don't like that, he can't force me, but we would need to have a long talk about potential risks in that decision. Of course, by 39 weeks, I was begging for an induction so it wasn't an issue. He did make me wait until the day before my due date because the hospital was too busy and he was having trouble scheduling his medically necessary inductions.
Posts: 1001 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Liz B: My question is: Am I going to be so incredibly uncomfortable/ tired in my last few weeks of pregnancy that I should just forget about coming back after Christmas break? (We get out 12/22). This is my first, so I have no idea. I've had a wonderful pregnancy so far, and I'm so full of energy it's hard for me to keep things in perspective.
Liz, every woman is going to be different, but if your level of discomfort in the last few weeks is like mine then you should definitely get all the money you can from work before you take half a year off. In fact, I did best when I had something to distract me.
It's nice that you get to take such a long maternity leave. After having had a baby, I don't know how women manage to go back after the standard 6 weeks. Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by ludosti: All you pregnant ladies with colds - what have you done to help feel better? I ended up with my usual vacation cold on Saturday and am trying hard not to be miserable. The sinus congestion and sneezing is now leading to my usual coughing (yay for hypersensitive lungs) and I'm sleeping so poorly it's hard to function.
I learned a bunch of tricks while I was BF from this site:
posted
I had a cold a couple weeks ago, and my doctor had previously told me that Sudafed and Tylenol were ok. I told her I had a Tylenol Cold multi-symptom OTC with Sudafed in it, and she that it was perfectly fine. I only took it at night so that I could get to sleep, but it sure helped me through the congestion part.
I know that some women stay away from medication completely, and I guess I'm just not one of them. I don't take medicine very often at all, but it helps in those moments when I need the edge of the pain (headache, congestion, etc.) taken away. I'm careful, and to me that's what's important.
Posts: 1635 | Registered: Aug 2002
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I take Sudafed, Tylenol, Advil when needed (with my doctor's approval), Alavert (Benadryl doesn't work for me unless I take it in spectacularly large doses), and of course my albuterol inhaler for my asthma. I am a little more reluctant to take them (except the inhaler) when I'm pregnant if I think I can get through it without them, but at this point it's my third pregnancy, and I just take what I need when I need it, having done it all before. I mean, Tylenol is positively tame compared to the medications I ended up on with Emma and Bridget (anti-nausea prescriptions with Emma, anti-contraction prescriptions for Bridget.)
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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(Oh, also, for some reason this pregnancy Mandarin Orange Spice herbal tea from Celestial Seasonings seems to help both my nausea and my cold-related sore throat/congestion. Ginger tea, a life-saver the last two times, I cannot stomach.)
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Liz B: My due date(s) are 1/15, 1/17, and 1/21. At this point I'm planning to go back to work in January (1/2) after Christmas break, and work basically just as long as I can in order to save my sick days for after the baby comes. (I'm taking the rest of the school year off, so I'll be taking about 60 days without pay.)
My question is: Am I going to be so incredibly uncomfortable/ tired in my last few weeks of pregnancy that I should just forget about coming back after Christmas break? (We get out 12/22). This is my first, so I have no idea. I've had a wonderful pregnancy so far, and I'm so full of energy it's hard for me to keep things in perspective.
I also wanted to save my maternity leave for after the baby was born. I was starting to reconsider that, but since I went into labor two weeks before due date I wasn't quite ready to be gone and ended up going in to the office on Thursday from 9:30am - 1:00pm after labor had started around midnight the night before. I needed to clear my desk and leave a few notes for the people who would be filling in for me. So it's definitely possible to work right until the last minute!
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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My sister-in-law has problems with her blood pressure late in pregnancy, and has managed to get temporary disability both times about 3 months before her due date. It lasts until she is released from the hospital, so she gets her full maternity leave afterward. If you are not just uncomfortable but start having medical problems related to your working later in your pregnancy, you might look into that. Otherwise, it kind of depends on the woman. I've known women who are able to work (with some accomodation) right up to the day they go into labor, and some who are so uncomfortable they become unproductive and decide to leave early.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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My maternity leave was defined as the 6 weeks after giving birth. Taking time off before didn't affect maternity leave, though it could affect job performace and sick days. Lucky for me, baby came the day Christmas break ended, so I really maximized my time off.
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See, she got 3 months, but that included all time taken before AND after the baby came for pregancy-related stuff.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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My maternity leave starts 6 - 8 weeks before my due date and continues for 6 - 36 months after delivery. A bit different, I guess.
I dreamed I was in labor last night and had to try to call my husband between contractions at the hospital because he's in London until Thursday. No contractions since I woke up though, thankfully...
Posts: 2762 | Registered: Sep 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Katarain: I read on another forum where a woman is 4 days from her due date, and since the baby had shown no signs of arriving, she was scheduling an induction for her due date.
I didn't say anything, since I haven't given birth yet, and what do I know, right? But I hear that induced labor is much more painful than natural labor, and I can't understand going through that just because you're tired of being pregnant. I figure if the baby hasn't come yet, it's because it's not done yet!
No one will be inducing me. No way, uh uh. Well, unless there was a big emergency that was threatening the life of my baby. But that's the ONLY way. I don't care if the little one is weeks late. I'm fairly sure it'll come when it's ready.
I couldn't agree more! Natural childbirth (meaning unmedicated) is probably not in the cards if you're induced. That pit is painful. In addition, an early epidural puts you at a greater risk for a c-section.
Also, I get the heebie jeebies about forcing nature to take a certain course. I tend to think that baby comes when it and mama's body is ready, and interrupting that could lead to problems. That's just my take, though.
A really great book to read, whether you're interested in natural childbirth or not, is Henci Goer's "The Thinking Woman's Guide to a Better Birth." Everyone should be informed about the birth process and different decisions that can be made for it, and most mainstream books (i.e. What to expect...) don't go into detail. Our society is really good about letting women forget that childbirth is a natural process that's been happening since humankind began.
With Space Space Baby, my OB told me I deserved a medal, as so few of her patients get to their due dates without being electively induced. It made me sad, but to each his own, I suppose.
Posts: 2578 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote: I tend to think that baby comes when it and mama's body is ready, and interrupting that could lead to problems.
Usually, I would agree. I happen to be an exception.
I love that I have choices because not every woman, not ever baby, and not ever pregnancy is exactly the same. Induction is there if I need it, like so many other things. I'd rather do that than a c-section.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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