posted
Also, I think in my flurry and nervousness of introducing myself to them I introduced myself as Ellia, and my name is Elly. I'm still wondering how that happened....
Posts: 511 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
I am really sorry to sully this fun thread with refrences to the current petty (and, I suspect, ultitmatly transitory) debate. I suspect this post will just seem weird six months from now when this arguement has gone away, and this thread is still going strong, as people find joy in the way our community grows and affects our real lives.
But Dag, for this thread to be anything like yours it would have to be called, "PLEDGE TO GO OUT RIGHT NOW AND HUNT DOWN A BUNCH OF HATRACKERS TO MEET SO WE CAN DECIDE WHETHER WE WANT TO TALK TO YOU."
Posts: 1894 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Perhaps you would care to explain the difference between actively soliciting evidence that someone is not an alt and my idea. Both unannounced alts and thread deletion are permitted activities that are both frowned on and that people want to know about before posting.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Perhaps you would care to explain the difference between actively soliciting evidence that someone is not an alt and my idea. Both unannounced alts and thread deletion are permitted activities that are both frowned on and that people want to know about before posting.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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But the prerequisite is, you got to read the post I made explaining why I made the sneeches comment, and why it was so easy to see that thread in a negative way.
Seriously, go read it again. Even if you think you remember it.
Great.
Okay, so what's the difference between that thread and this thread?
1. This thread was started by Slash. It's hard to really put into words why that makes a difference, but it does. This thread started out with the context of everything else he was doing on Hatrack at the time, and that put it in a place where nobody really saw it as an attack.
Or, if they did, it was the same part of the general attack that Slash, being a lizard king, always tended to make on everybody, meaning that it was just as possible that this thread was made to attack the people who were calling out alts as it was that he was attacking people who used alts.
At any level, when the idea was brought up it did not feel retaliatiory, it did not feel like it was picking on anyone, and it did not feel like it was trying to distance anyone from anything.
It was just a fun idea for a thread.
Nobody was really being excluded here. The person with the most alts on hatrack could have joined. The only people excluded were, well, not really "people" at all.
2. This thread is not worded negatively. It does not say The Thread For People Who Are Above Using Alts or anything like that. Many of the "Real" hatrackers here use alts. Slash acknowledged using alts in the thread topic.
In your thread, by specifically making the thread title negative (Basically saying, "We're the people above a certain kind of behavior"), it feels more like it's about distancing yourself from different people than about acknowledging a common bond.
This thread, by wording it positively, is able to pass itself off as being more about shared bonds than about separation from "lesser" others a little more easily.
3. Regardless of anybody's intent when a thread gets started, once it's released into the ether, a thread takes on a life of its own. This one has proven, over time, to have become a very positive thing in the world of the Hatrack forums. It's become more about a right of passage as people become a stronger part of the community than it is about figuring out who those alts are so that we can remain suspicious of them.
Really, I don't think anybody's going to treat BlackBlade any differently now than they did before he got on this list. Nobody's thinking, "Oh, I can finally allay my suspicion that BlackBlade is just an alt for cheirosdeender."
Sure, Slash said anyone who did it would "automatically granted more credibility in the hatrack community," but he did it by his authority as "lizard king," meaning the worst that might have happened if someone had failed to grant such credibility is that they would have been eaten by him.
Meaning this was all in fun.
And quite frankly, if anybody wanted on this list, they could just make up a bunch of alts, pretend they all lived in Antartica, post a thread about PenguinCon, pretend to hold it, and then declare all their alts real.
This thread isn't really about that.
There was no enforcement declared, no position put in place for "People who pretended to be real but turned out not to be" to be edited in, so everybody would eventually know who to shun.
Everybody can become real, if they care to, and are willing to go where the closest hatrackers are. The only requirement for getting into this club, basically, is wanting to be in it bad enough to do that.
Your thread is basically, "Here is where you can find the trustworthy Hatrackers," and then makes specific decsions about what constitutes trustworthy that would be debated by some hatrackers.
This thread makes no such moral judgements. All it does is acknowledge existance.
Nobody would read this thread and come away thinking Slash or anybody who played along in the game didn't like them. They'd know that if they ever cared to, they could eventually join it.
I mean, even the name of the thread is tounge in cheek. "Real" hatrackers. Everybody's real!
Your thread was nothing like this. Your thread was very official. Your thread contained a punishment (a list ready to be edited) for violation. There was nothing "fun," "tounge in cheek," or anything approaching slash's aknowledgement of having engaged in the use of ALTs himself.
Your thread, quite frankly, felt mean, serious, and judgemental.
Posts: 1894 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
doc, I'm sorry, but this does sully this thread. It would have been much better elsewhere. Instead...
quote:Originally posted by SoaPiNuReYe: I'm partly South Indian.
Tamil, soap? That's cool. And, um, sorry for being so late to catch that comment... Have you been to/lived in India as well, or is it purely ancestry in action?
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Originally posted by quidscribis: doc, I'm sorry, but this does sully this thread. It would have been much better elsewhere. Instead...
doc wasn't the one who brought it over here. He was responding to dag's post further up this page about "sneeches" - which dag brought over here from the other thread.
posted
Oh. Didn't know that. Thanks, Ela. I'd read about sneeches, but I've been sick for the last week, so I don't know if it's just my brain or what, but I really just don't get what it's about or where it originated.
ETA: So, the significance of it went over my head, is what I'm trying to say.
Still, does the infection have to spread? Can't it stay restricted to the five or ten already existing threads about thread deletion?
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Quick question. I met three Hatrackers back in April. They were: Amanecer pfresh85 vonk
All of us were first time Hatrack people meeters. Are we real yet?
I know I wouldn't have this problem if I met KQ and Boon at the little TulCon they had. Maybe next time.
Posts: 1766 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
No, they had none of them met anyone real before, right? You have to meet previously real people to become real. Although some subscribe to the theory of retroactive realness, so if one of them became real thereafter some would say they are then all real.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
docmagick, let's be clear here. The accusation made was that my thread was equivalent to ""PLEDGE TO GO OUT RIGHT NOW AND HUNT DOWN A BUNCH OF HATRACKERS TO MEET SO WE CAN DECIDE WHETHER WE WANT TO TALK TO YOU."
quote:This thread was started by Slash. It's hard to really put into words why that makes a difference, but it does. This thread started out with the context of everything else he was doing on Hatrack at the time, and that put it in a place where nobody really saw it as an attack.
If you can't put it into words, then you've hardly even attempted to explain it to me. In-group acceptance of behavior by another, with the only attempt to explain why this matters amounting to "because everyone knew it was OK" is a lot more star-belly sneechlike than anything I've done.
quote:In your thread, by specifically making the thread title negative (Basically saying, "We're the people above a certain kind of behavior"), it feels more like it's about distancing yourself from different people than about acknowledging a common bond.
Again, that's what YOU'RE bringing to this. It's a group of people banding together based on a common characteristic.
quote:This thread is not worded negatively. It does not say The Thread For People Who Are Above Using Alts or anything like that. Many of the "Real" hatrackers here use alts. Slash acknowledged using alts in the thread topic.
Every time you reword what I said, you add your own value judgment to it. Your attacks can't stand on their own - you have to make up stuff that I said to even get them off the ground. The concept of "above" is something YOU'VE added to this, not me.
Further, I didn't say those people had a problem with alts. I said they had a problem with unannounced alts - the specific behavior that being "real" targets.
Let's look at the opening post again: "To be real, you need to have been physically met by two or more other hatrackers who can attest to your existence. A list of your witnesses is required. Those able to produce such a list are automatically granted more credibility in the hatrack community. I have decreed it as the lizard king, and thus it is law."
You might think the "lizard king" thing makes it somehow different than what I did, but your relying on "the worst that might have happened if someone had failed to grant such credibility is that they would have been eaten by him."
Whereas my thread had no consequences for anyone EXCEPT THOSE WHO PUBLICLY BREAK THEIR WORD. Not people who choose not to participate. Not people who insist on deleting threads. Just those who break their word.
quote:And quite frankly, if anybody wanted on this list, they could just make up a bunch of alts, pretend they all lived in Antartica, post a thread about PenguinCon, pretend to hold it, and then declare all their alts real.
No, they couldn't.
quote:Everybody can become real, if they care to, and are willing to go where the closest hatrackers are. The only requirement for getting into this club, basically, is wanting to be in it bad enough to do that.
The only requirement to being in my "club" (I'll use y our loaded word for clarity) is to promise not to delete others' words. That's it. Anyone can join.
quote:Your thread is basically, "Here is where you can find the trustworthy Hatrackers," and then makes specific decsions about what constitutes trustworthy that would be debated by some hatrackers.
For the last time: NO IT DOES NOT!!!! It says here is where you can find the people who have voluntarily chosen to refrain from exercising a particular power.
Quite frankly, all this does is confirm my original impression that the reason you see this so negatively is YOUR distrust of others.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I think of being "real" as being more about celebrating the fact that you met some cool people from the site. There really isn't much status involved with it, except that you'll probably be closer to the people you meet than ones you haven't. Technically, to be real, there must be a chain linking you back to Slash, since he started the thread.
In my opinion, Dagonee, people were being too hard on you in the thread you started. However, your comment on this thread was out of line. I'd really appreciate it if you'd avoid spreading the hostility to other threads.
Posts: 3546 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
I added to the reality matrix by visiting saxon75 and Papa Moose a couple of weeks ago. We're all real, but now we're more real.
Posts: 4753 | Registered: May 2002
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posted
Is this sort of like putting a star on your belly to make sure everyone knows who the good people are?
Posts: 2 | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote:Really, I don't think anybody's going to treat BlackBlade any differently now than they did before he got on this list. Nobody's thinking, "Oh, I can finally allay my suspicion that BlackBlade is just an alt for cheirosdeender."
Fools, my plan has been exacted to perfection!
Also,
*Materializes* I'm a real boy!
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Darnit! Docmagic, I was so excited for a whole two posts when I thought I was real. But no, only to have my joyous celebration dashed against the rocks by KQ! Oh the horror! Sniff. Oh well, one day, one day I'll be real.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
I was made real during Verily's trip to NE (thanks Bok and Myr). I don't think I (or they) ever posted it, though.
Posts: 2926 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by vonk: Darnit! Docmagic, I was so excited for a whole two posts when I thought I was real. But no, only to have my joyous celebration dashed against the rocks by KQ! Oh the horror! Sniff. Oh well, one day, one day I'll be real.
Come to L.A. We happily make anyone real. Heck, come have dinner with my family, or with the Meeses, if none of the rest of the clump are free, and you'll be real right there, since both families contain at least two Real Jatraqueros (although of course we accept any excuse to get together so most likely you'll get at least a few more than that.)
quote:Originally posted by vonk: Darnit! Docmagic, I was so excited for a whole two posts when I thought I was real. But no, only to have my joyous celebration dashed against the rocks by KQ! Oh the horror! Sniff. Oh well, one day, one day I'll be real.
Come to L.A. We happily make anyone real. Heck, come have dinner with my family, or with the Meeses, if none of the rest of the clump are free, and you'll be real right there, since both families contain at least two Real Jatraqueros (although of course we accept any excuse to get together so most likely you'll get at least a few more than that.)
Bring gifts.
Come now, clearly the next meeting should have positions switched where the hosts give gifts to the visitors. It can rotate every time
I'd hate to think I'd spoiled you KQ.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by vonk: Darnit! Docmagic, I was so excited for a whole two posts when I thought I was real. But no, only to have my joyous celebration dashed against the rocks by KQ! Oh the horror! Sniff. Oh well, one day, one day I'll be real.
Come to L.A. We happily make anyone real. Heck, come have dinner with my family, or with the Meeses, if none of the rest of the clump are free, and you'll be real right there, since both families contain at least two Real Jatraqueros (although of course we accept any excuse to get together so most likely you'll get at least a few more than that.)
Bring gifts.
Sounds like a plan! Next time I'm near the West Coast there will be presents aplenty!
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Awww, I was just joking 'bout the gifts. Although if you REALLY wanted to give me one, of course I would not say no!
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: Awww, I was just joking 'bout the gifts. Although if you REALLY wanted to give me one, of course I would not say no!
It's true, she really wouldn't
KQ and Rivka were brilliant hosts.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: Awww, I was just joking 'bout the gifts. Although if you REALLY wanted to give me one, of course I would not say no!
It's true, she really wouldn't
I wouldn't, either, if it were chocolate... Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Luet13: I just met Goody Scrivener, her daughter and Narnia. Yay!!!
They came to my show. Again, yay!!!
I'm just now adding my testimony to Luet's solidity. She really does exist and she's talented like crazy. The show was a great time. Posts: 6415 | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
this thread always makes me jealose of all the hatrackers i have never met and always want to meet
Posts: 2332 | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I am pleased to announce that brojack17 is now Real, having met the entire Ketchup Family (which includes 2 or 3 Real Jatraqueros, depending on who you talk to) at Pie N Burger in Pasadena tonight.
And he didn't finish his chili. I ate him under the table.
But other than that, he is very nice. I look forward to seeing him again sometime, and have threatened to invade his home next time we are in Tulsa. Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
KQ, Just because we have the same size belly does not mean we both have 1 1/2 people to eat for.
Thank you for the wonderful meal, I enjoyed the leftovers in my hotel room.
You have a beautiful and wonderful family and I wish you luck with the new baby.
vonk, pfresh, and amancener (sp),
I'll be back in Houston next week and I could bestow some realness on you then if you would like to meet again. I know vonk and pfresh are still in Houston.
Posts: 1766 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
There are some people who believe in retroactive real. Though if those people have just met you, they'd only be half real.
Posts: 5362 | Registered: Apr 2004
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