quote:Originally posted by starLisa: So why is it that horse is every bit as non-kosher as pig? So is rabbit and bear and snake and shrimp and lobster and scallops and sturgeon and catfish. All things that I've always wondered what they taste like, but will never find out.
Am I Jesus? I don't know everything.
I mentioned the pork because that was what I remembered from an article in the "Spiegel". It was about a book in which a woman describes possible backgrounds of SOME of the Jewish nutritional laws.
With this "pork"-post, I only wanted to answer TomDavidson that not all of the Jewish laws etc. are as arbitrary as they seem to be, that some of those rules are even understandable for non-Jews.
Actually, I don't understand your objections to my analyse. I never said that those rules are NOT given by God. But that doesn't mean, that there is no way to understand at least some of the reasons why He might have given those rules, does it?
And when I said, that I think that Judaism seems to be more sensible to me than some other religions, well, maybe it was the wrong word. I meant: right-minded. Reasonable. Sound. And I referred in my post especially to the Jewish people's appreciation of knowledge and life-long learning and to the fact that you encourage people to ask questions. That IS reasonable, isn't it? I think so.
I apologise if you think that I don't respect your belief or that I trivialize it. This was (and is) not my intention. (Right now, I'm slowly recovering from your rebuke. )
Posts: 262 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:We didn't come up with the word. English isn't the language of Judaism, and no English term can be anything but a rough translation.
The term "gentile" was made up by non-Jews themselves. The Hebrew term is goy, with the plural goyim. Goy means "nation", and Jews are called a goy kadosh, or "holy nation", ourselves. The reason it came to mean "non-Jew" was that in many places in the Bible, we're told not to try and behave k'chol ha-goyim: "like all the nations". From that usage, the other nations, in the aggregate, became known as goyim.
That said, here is an etymology of the word "gentile".
Aha. Well, the only time I've ever heard that term is, when English speaking Jews refer to Non- Jews, so certainly, I wondered.
Ah. No, it's just that a lot of Jews use that term in English, because some idiot anti-semite started a story that "goyim" means "beasts", and rather than risk violence, it seemed easier to use the English term.
Also... you've never heard the term used by Mormons? I've been told by a few Mormons that I, as a Jew, am a Gentile. Go figure... [/QB]
Why, that's interesting. Thank you! (I'm so relieved to know...finally.) I don't know ANY Mormons personally. Or, if I do, I don't know it. (I don't think there are a lot of Mormons in Germany.) Same applies to Jewish people. I only know one, and I don't know him very good. But there's quite a big Jewish community in Freiburg, so I probably know more. Only, I usually don't ask people about their beliefs.
I only got to know this term because I read some books from Jewish authors in the English Original. (Mordecai Richler, Philip Roth, Jonathan Safran Foer...)
Posts: 262 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Well, I assume you've read books by Orson Scott Card, or you wouldn't be here. He's a Mormon. As are very many regulars here. So now you know some Mormons. Say "hi".
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quote:Originally posted by Noemon: Might be interesting to see whether those meats, when undercooked, carry health risks beyond those common to all undercooked meats. I know that horse and bear are both carriers of Trichinella. [/QB]
Fortunately, there aren't a lot of people to whom bear and horse is an important part of their diet.
I wonder about the difference between common mussels and scallops... (I've never eaten scallops; I wouldn't recognize it if it bit me.).
Posts: 262 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by starLisa: Well, I assume you've read books by Orson Scott Card, or you wouldn't be here. He's a Mormon. As are very many regulars here. So now you know some Mormons. Say "hi".
Ha ha. Don't make fun of my little problems with the Thesaurus... Isn't there a risk to catch Trichinella, then? Posts: 262 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
OK, I have a new question. You'd think I'd stop asking them, but no. At least this one is (seemingly) more lighthearted than the things I have been posting about lately.
How are names given? I hear people say that they are given Jewish names but they have other names too. I have a friend who is part Jewish and her name is supposedly Hebrew and has the name initial as her father's name. Anyway, I am facinated by names so I would love to know more about this tradition.
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quote:Originally posted by Tinros: How do you pronounce "Noachide"?
*twinkle* How do I say it? Or how would I suggest you say it? I say it no-AH-chide (where "ch" is the guttural sound that exists in Hebrew and Yiddish but not English); but it's ok to say "no-AH-hide."
quote:Originally posted by MandyM: How are names given? I hear people say that they are given Jewish names but they have other names too. I have a friend who is part Jewish and her name is supposedly Hebrew and has the name initial as her father's name. Anyway, I am fascinated by names so I would love to know more about this tradition.
Firstly, according to Jewish law, there is no such thing as "part Jewish." Either you are (if your mother is, or if you converted properly), or you are not.
Jewish names are generally Hebrew or Yiddish. Some give their children both a Jewish name and an English (or whatever) one; some do not. (My Jewish name and legal name are the same -- well, except for the last name, as there is no such thing in a Jewish name.) Babies are often named after relatives (deceased if the parents are Ashkenazim; living or deceased if the parents are Sephardim). They may also be given after famous/notable people, such as well-known rabbis or women of note -- or just because they like the name!
(My parents chose Rivka because my mom liked it. She discovered after the fact that there had been a cousin with that name. A number of relatives assumed I was named after her.)
quote:Originally posted by Tinros: How do you pronounce "Noachide"?
*twinkle* How do I say it? Or how would I suggest you say it? I say it no-AH-chide (where "ch" is the guttural sound that exists in Hebrew and Yiddish but not English); but it's ok to say "no-AH-hide."
Funny... I pronounce it with the stress on the first syllable. NO-uh-chide.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Tinros: How do you pronounce "Noachide"?
*twinkle* How do I say it? Or how would I suggest you say it? I say it no-AH-chide (where "ch" is the guttural sound that exists in Hebrew and Yiddish but not English); but it's ok to say "no-AH-hide."
Funny... I pronounce it with the stress on the first syllable. NO-uh-chide.
No joke, I pronounce it no-uh-chIde. Stress on the last syllable, with guttural "ch". Now, we got all the possible variations, don't we? Posts: 262 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
I understand that Judaism doesn't place emphasis on an afterlife, but can you tell me what, if any, teachings exist on it? Do different groups, or different times, view it differently?
posted
There is not a lot out there, and there is a lot of personal opinion on the matter. The Torah makes it clear a few times that there is something after death.
Any punishment that exists doesn't last for more then a year. I've heard that the truly wicked have their souls destroyed.
I should also add to my previous post that the question (from a friend, we couldn't answer it) specifically deals with whether there is/might be a resurrection of some sort.
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Belief in the resurrection is one of the 13 basic articles of faith codified by Moses Maimonides.
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This is a rather vague question, but for the Jewish folks, what, in your experience, have non-Jewish people you've encountered found most strange or difficult to digest about your faith? Is there anything in particular that many non-Jews aren't aware of, or tend to be very surprised when they find it out?
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quote:Originally posted by MightyCow: This is a rather vague question, but for the Jewish folks, what, in your experience, have non-Jewish people you've encountered found most strange or difficult to digest about your faith? Is there anything in particular that many non-Jews aren't aware of, or tend to be very surprised when they find it out?
There seems to be a lot of confusion and misunderstanding about the kosher food laws. Kosher is not a style of cuisine, it is a list of restrictions about what is and is not proper to eat. And while, for food that has been processed, people may put their trust in a person or agency familiar with those rules to certify that the food meets the requirements kashrut, that does not mean that "a rabbi has to bless the food".
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I think a lot of people are also confused by the translation of "work" to be what you can not do on the Sabbath. So they will say things like, "Well, it's way more work to walk two miles than to drive." The actual translation is closer to "creation."
Posts: 159 | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:I keep finding that people are amazed to hear that when we fast, we really fast. As in no food, no water, no nothing.
Really? In my experience, religions that define fast in some other way are the exception where and what you describe is the rule.
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I have no idea what is more common. But I do know the usual response when I tell someone about a fast is, "But you can have water, right?"
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I was given my "Hebrew" name at my Jewish Day School when I was 5 or so. (I'm not sure how the process worked... I'm not quite as smart as Bean; I can't remember that far back!)
Also, when people are called up to the Torah, the name that is used is the first and (sometimes?) middle name of the person being called and then "ben" (son) or "bat" (daughter) and then their mother/father's name. (Keep in mind that women aren’t called to the Torah in the regular orthodox services. My synagogue has a women's service which meets on Saturday afternoon once a month. Even doing this is considered controversial.)
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One's full Hebrew name is first, all middle names (if they have any), ben/bas father's name. That would be for things like being called to the Torah and all legal documents (like marriage or divorce documents). I am Rivka Gila bas Baruch.
However, when praying for a sick person (and a few other things), we use the mother's name. Then I am Rivka Gila bas Marta Rochel.
Giving a Hebrew name is really as simple as starting to use it. No "process" is required.
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Well, I would assume that if you had medical problems that required a certain food each day, or certain amounts of water, that you would be allowed to have those, even when fasting. As in, "If you can go without it and not put your life at risk, please do, but if you must have it, then have it." I would like to think that a loving God cares more about your life than a fast. Am I right?
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quote:Originally posted by MightyCow: This is a rather vague question, but for the Jewish folks, what, in your experience, have non-Jewish people you've encountered found most strange or difficult to digest about your faith? Is there anything in particular that many non-Jews aren't aware of, or tend to be very surprised when they find it out?
For me, not believing in Jesus. You would be surprised at how many Christians just can't conceive of it. For example, this is a basic conversation I have had with my co-worker several times over the last couple of years:
g-: So is (fill in Jewish holiday) the Jewish Christmas?
Stephan: No, we don't believe in Jesus
g-: So, you don't believe in God?
Stephan: We believe in God, we just don't believe he came to Earth 2,000 years ago in the form of his son.
quote:Originally posted by Tinros: Well, I would assume that if you had medical problems that required a certain food each day, or certain amounts of water, that you would be allowed to have those, even when fasting. As in, "If you can go without it and not put your life at risk, please do, but if you must have it, then have it." I would like to think that a loving God cares more about your life than a fast. Am I right?
Correct, life almost always comes first.
Posts: 3134 | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Tinros: Well, I would assume that if you had medical problems that required a certain food each day, or certain amounts of water, that you would be allowed to have those, even when fasting. As in, "If you can go without it and not put your life at risk, please do, but if you must have it, then have it." I would like to think that a loving God cares more about your life than a fast. Am I right?
Yes, it goes even further than that. There are situations where you are religiously required *not* to fast. For example, I stayed with a friend on Yom Kippur who had just had a baby two days earlier. She had a little bit to eat every few minutes (the time and amount are proscribed by the rabbis).
Posts: 159 | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Stephan: For me, not believing in Jesus. You would be surprised at how many Christians just can't conceive of it.
<nod> I was stunned, actually, the first time I ran into a Christian who was, himself, stunned to find out that we don't believe in JC. He'd been taught that we knew and accepted that JC was a savior, or whatever, but rejected him anyway.
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quote:Originally posted by Chanie: I think a lot of people are also confused by the translation of "work" to be what you can not do on the Sabbath. So they will say things like, "Well, it's way more work to walk two miles than to drive." The actual translation is closer to "creation."
Is there not a law limiting how far one may walk on Shabbat? I cannot remember what the limitation is, but I seem to recall it being less than 2 miles.
Posts: 195 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by David G: Is there not a law limiting how far one may walk on Shabbat? I cannot remember what the limitation is, but I seem to recall it being less than 2 miles.
Yes and no. There is such a limit, but it applies only when leaving city limits. If you're staying within inhabited areas, you can walk all day long. (In urban areas, this restriction rarely comes into play at all.)
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Only someone on the East Coast would make that last blanket statement. It is very easy to have potential issues in most West Coast cities (where there are frequent 1/4 mile stretches of not much besides freeway and trees even while within Los Angeles County or San Diego County limits). Hurray for lower population density!
I solve any potential problem by not walking 2 miles. Ever. Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
And my New York upbringing betrays me again!
Though I've personally walked over four hours through Chicago (arrived in town just barely before sundown; long story), and from downtown Jerusalem to Har Nof and back (multiple occasions). But you're right. Mea culpa!
Posts: 884 | Registered: Mar 2005
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It's not just NY. As you say, it's true for Chicago as well (pretty much), and I'd think Boston as well. And it's definitely true of Yerushalayim!
Anyway, there's nothing wrong with being used to what you're used to. I only have a problem with NYers whose response to having every-place-is-not-NYC-hakedosha pointed out to them is to insist that other places should be more like NY. (Can you tell I dealt with one recently? )
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How many less then observant Jews typically attend Orthodox congregations? I was working with several congregations (Orthodox, Conservative, and two Reform) in my area last week to put together a candidate forum, and was a little surprised to have the Orthodox representative volunteer to drive out and pick up microphones on Saturday.
Would I fit in attending that congregation more then I thought I would?
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posted
Well, it'd be pretty difficult to get from the airport into Boston by foot... You're direct route requires going under the harbor (by boat, bus, or car), and the long way around might still be problematic, since there is a stretch of land that is undeveloped due to wetland conservation laws (this area was supposed to be part if I-95 through Boston, but the environmentalists won the day, and the only way you know is that there is half an overpass to nowhere in the moddle of a rotary ).
Once in Boston/Cambridge proper though, no worries... Especially if you get to Brookline, which has the unbroken wire surrounding it (I forget the term).
posted
Depends on the congregation. There are Orthodox shuls where the people who drive on Shabbat park around the corner, for instance. Sort of a "don't ask, don't tell" thing, or more like a "don't ask us to say it's okay and we'll just focus on the things you do that are good."
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Bokonon: Once in Boston/Cambridge proper though, no worries... Especially if you get to Brookline, which has the unbroken wire surrounding it (I forget the term).
By this, I'm assuming you mean, not believing that he was a God or divine -- not that you don't believe there wasn't a man named Jesus who lived, and whose life was documented by many sources, correct? You just do not believe he was the son of God or in any way divine? You do believe the man existed?
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FG, I've found that Jews are largely split on that issue, and that it can often be couched in terms of "he could have lived then", rather than absolute acceptance of it.
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<nod> Different strokes. I personally think that the character that appears in the Christian scriptures is a fictional combination of a number of charismatic and messianic individuals who lived between about 250 BCE and 70 CE. The one who gave his name to the character, Yeshua HaNotzri, is mentioned in the Talmud, and lived closer to 250 BCE.
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quote:Originally posted by Bokonon: Especially if you get to Brookline, which has the unbroken wire surrounding it (I forget the term).
You mean an eruv, I'm guessing. Which is not an unbroken wire; it's a series of fences or "doorways."
quote:Originally posted by Stephan: How many less then observant Jews typically attend Orthodox congregations?
Varies tremendously, and depends largely on what other local options there are. If it is the only (or one of very few) option in town, expect a significant number of people who are not Sabbath-observant. Likewise if it is a congregation that focuses on outreach (although in that case it is probably more accurate to say that many are not YET Sabbath-observant).
In the heart of a city with a large Orthodox community and many non-Orthodox congregations, there will likely still be some, but not many.
Of course, it is possible that the synagogue has a secretary or other worker who is not Jewish.
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I won't go into the argument on the many sources, mostly because I haven't really cared enough to read any directly besides the Christian scriptures themselves. From what I have read it seems every argument for/or against his existence is followed up by another good argument refuting it.
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