I'd HONESTLY thought he'd forgotten about me by this point. It's been almost a week, and I thought that after what happened he wouldn't bother. I was obviously wrong. And the problem is, I don't know what he said... he has a really quiet voice, both in person and especially on the phone... so I couldn't hear or understand anything he said to me. I tried to be as cold as possible on the phone, but I have no idea if I consented to meeting him, or what... I honestly don't know. I hope I didn't agree to anything.
You know, I was completely getting over this, and then...
Now, all my previous fears and stuff are back. Crap.
Posts: 7877 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Hey so maybe this guy thinks you're meeting up with him tomorrow, so what? I mean who cares if you're misleading him? He tried to KISS you. Don't just let that go by easily, that's serious.
Posts: 3564 | Registered: Sep 2001
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That actually sounds kinda scary to me, too. You really need to tell him to not call you. And if he keeps doing it, I'd get the police (Or the Israeli equivalent) in on it.
edit: And don't be afraid of him. A person is nothing to be afraid of. Just stand your ground. And if it helps, I'll be praying for you (That is, if you don't mind)
[ November 14, 2004, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: Boris ]
Posts: 3003 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Raia, you have GOT to go to the women's center (or whatever equivalent) of your school. Talk to a counselor who has experience with this sort of thing. You also need to enroll in at least one self-defense class.
A better response to the phone call would have been to say, "Look, (dude's name), what you did was completely inappropriate. I don't want to see you again, don't call me again, and stay away from me in the future." I can understand if it's not your nature to speak so directly (it's not in mine), but you have to force yourself. It takes confidence and assertiveness, and you need to tap into yours.
Please don't think I'm berating you - I just hate to hear you sounding so shook up.
Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
As a friend of mine is so fond of saying, "men have feelings - hurt them."
You didn't agree to a damned thing and he certainly can't hold you to anything even if you had.
If he insists on pressing the issue, explain as politely as you feel like that you have an objection to dating men who kiss like cold fish, never mind rude men who kiss like cold fish.
I have the sneaking suspicion he doesn't know how offended and bothered you feel and he doesn't have the social grace to realize a subtle, chilly brush-off for as often as he must receive them.
Then, take a rolled up newspaper to his nose.
-Trevor
Edit: What Ms. M said (firearms training? From a non-assertive person? )
I'm not sure a self-defense course would make you feel more comfortable in brushing off unwanted but still social advances, but I still highly recommend checking out the women's center and getting some input from the counselors available.
Can you change your number, or is it automatically publically listed by the school? You definitely don't have to deal with this and he shouldn't be calling you at all after all you've been through. I will add my voice to those saying you do need to report the behavior, especially since he's not going away.
Anna,
I saw, re-skimming this thread, where you wrote this:
quote:I'm mostly happy to be a woman but that's one reason I could desire to be male.
and thought I should point out that being male does not preclude you from going through this.
Posts: 3846 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
I thought about getting my number changed, but I don't have my cell through a specific phone company... I got it through the university, so I don't know if I would be able to do that. I have it for this year, then I give it back. Plus, that's the only way people have to contact me, and half the country has my number... I don't know everyone who does. But if I suddenly change my number, and don't know who to contact to let them know, they have no other way of reaching me.
Posts: 7877 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Don't change your number, but do go to the women's center on campus. *hugs Raia* This sucks, but unfortunately lots of people go through it, so they'll know how to help.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
You know, I was in class today, and I put my phone on "silent" rather than turn it off (which I do frequently, in case I receive a text message ), and about halfway through class, I glanced at my phone, and suddenly noticed that someone was ringing. Then it said "1 missed call"... and then it said "1 new voice message." I couldn't concentrate for the remainder of the class period, I didn't know if the message was from him or not. I was sitting there freaking out while the professor was talking. First thing I did the moment our professor released us (a few minutes later than usual, I might add... the world is against me!) was check the message... luckily, it was from my mom. I've never been so happy to hear her voice.
Posts: 7877 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
TMedina, the reason that I suggested a self defense course is that I think it would give Raia more confidence and give her practice telling men to back off. I personally think that all women in college should take a semester- or year-long self-defense class (I also think that all colleges should offer them).
Also, non-assertive in social situations. Firearms training is not a social occassion.
Raia, it breaks my heart that this is disrupting your life so much. Please get help somewhere.
Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
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quote:Raia, it breaks my heart that this is disrupting your life so much. Please get help somewhere.
I'll second that. I actually spent quite a bit of my weekend thinking about this situation, and about power and powerlessness in society, and how some very weak people, like this guy that's bugging Raia, try to latch on to others and suck their strength and power from them. They're like a particularly pathetic breed of vampire.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Noemon, you spent your weekend thinking about this? I'm so sorry! I didn't mean to spoil your weekend!
I really need to get over myself in this matter, I think... I doubt it's as bad as I'm making it out to be. I mean, yeah, it scared the crap out of me, but come on Raia... snap out of it. *slaps self in head*
I don't know what's wrong with me. I'm sorry everyone, I must be getting on your nerves. *hug Noemon* Sorry I spoiled your weekend, and everyone else, thank you for caring, but it was wrong of me to lay all of this on you. I'm so sorry.
*goes to bed miserable* Posts: 7877 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Raia, you're not on our nerves, we're concerned for your well-being. We want to be sure that you do what you need to so you can avoid further unpleasant experiences. Posts: 720 | Registered: Oct 2004
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Hey, you didn't spoil anything! I'm glad that you told us about this, and I can completely understand being freaked out by it. I didn't hesitate to come here for help when Christine seemed to be really sick, and I hope you won't hesitate to share things like this should they happen in the future. It upset you, and we're you're friends, so *of course* sharing it with us was appropriate.
It just bugs me to see this parasite trying to draw off your strength.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
ok, I'm figuring for about $1200 i can fly over there and kick this guys butt. Who wants to help pay for it?
Posts: 1094 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Just be clear that you aren't interested, and don't let him guilt you into meeting him or into being "friends". It is very possible that he has no clue how offended and scared you are of him, so you should be very clear about it if he calls again....and then tell him that you are calling security and filing a complaint if he calls again.
Then do it. Don't just say you will, follow through on it, so he will have no reason to think you are captivated by his charming ways.... Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Good Grief, Am I to understand that this person wanted to kiss you and tried to call you and you are losing your mind over it? What are you doing in college?
Wait until you pass out from winning a drinking contest in a slush storm on the way back from the West Side and are picked up by four fat girls and forced to satisfy their lust to get your clothing back.
posted
Hey BC, I know you're a little slow on the uptake, but you could at least try reading her post first.
Posts: 2245 | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
[In all my years as Hatrack moderator, this post has gotten more complaints than any other. Out it goes -- and Bean Counter, if you persist in being insensitive and obnoxious you're going to follow it.]
posted
Man. I was wrong about calling myself annoying when I first signed up...
Anyway, Raia, if you are sitting through class worrying about whether a single phone call was from this guy or not then you really need to make sure it's 100% resolved if he ever calls again. It isn't right for someone to have that kind of power over you. So just tell him what you think next time.
Posts: 3003 | Registered: Oct 2004
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When I was at the Hebrew University, I had a bad experience with a very pushy guy who kept coming to my dorm room. I wouldn't open the door to him, and eventually, he gave up.
quote:Haha, the country was founded AFTER they were born! My dad tells stories of the six day war (he was seven years old then), when the block of houses he lived in (where my grandfather still lives) was the only one in the entire neighborhood not to get hit by a bomb or something similar. *shudder*
Umm, the country was founded in 1948. The Six Day War was in 1967. Just saying. Posts: 5771 | Registered: Nov 2000
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quote:and then tell him that you are calling security and filing a complaint if he calls again.
I'm not sure I agree with this - the goal is disengagement. I think I'd lean toward telling him clearly you want no contact with him and then giving him none - not even to tell him off. If he starts stalking, then go to the police/security. Threats seem counter productive.
But YOU are the one there, and you have to rely on your intuition about the possible danger. If you think Kwea's advice is correct, go for it.
And BC, we've put up with a lot from you, but this is entirely unacceptable. Get the hell out of this thread.
posted
BC, you are a contempible little man. The best that you can do to feel big is to pick on someone who's going through a traumatic experience? Like all bullies, you are mistaking your weakness for strength.
It's almost a shame that BC's comments are likely to be modded out because I think they give a good example. Raia, BC is a weakling and an idiot. Certainly you're free to think whatever you want but if your thoughts are running along these lines just be aware that they're basicaly agreeing with a weakling and an idiot and are thus probably not all that accurate.
This isn't a matter of personal strength. You're having normal trauma reactions that are right now counter-productive to dealing with the stress. Given time, you'll get over this on your own, but with knowledgable people showing you different, more effective ways of dealing with the stress, you'll likely cut down on the time it'll take.
Two other really common reactions to situations like this is to feel guilt over burdening your friends and a sort of passivity. Again, natural reactions that so many people have, but they don't generally help you move forward. I don't think anyone here considers you a burden. The worst in that line is that maybe they're upset that they can't be more help.
Their eagerness to help is shared by a bunch of people who don't even know you. For myself, while I've always liked what I've seen of you, I wouldn't say we're friends. We're pretty much strangers, but I really do want to help. It's the way I'm put together. Knowing that people have to go through rough times, especially because of the stupid behavior of other people, hurts me, regardless of the specific situation. I look for chances to help as best I can at least in part because that makes me feel good. There are people who live right around you whose zeal to help and knowledge on how to do so are greater than mine. Trust me, letting them help out is no burden at all. It's almost a favor.
It's totally your choice what to do, but I'm saying don't make this choice out of guilt or fear or anything. Even if what you went through was objectively nothing to worry you (and it was), the simple fact is that it is bothering you and there are things you can do to severely reduce its effects. I'm just suggesting stuff that I think will probably help. It will actually make me feel good if it does help or even if it doesn't but you get past this some other way.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
BC, you are being an idiot of the highest degree. Stop it please... You cannot possibly understand what Raia has gone through because you have no clue what it is like to be a woman... It's not just some simple little incident in the eyes of a woman. Please silence yourself.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
If you can't change your number, can you get his number blocked? You can probably do this through your cell phone or your service provider.
Don't go easy on this guy just because he is a soft spoken, "shy" person. Sure, there are lots of shy guys whose only problem is their inability to understand basic social dynamics.
But there are people who are quiet on the outside, but a tempest of woman-hating rage on the inside. I've known guys like that. Guys who have been rejected by women all their life and finally snap when they get rejected by one woman too many. You don't want to take chances with people like that.
You're young Raia. Deep down inside, young people never think anything bad will happen to them.
Report this jerk as early as possible.
Posts: 1592 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
In a bad situation you either get mad and react or you get scared and freeze. As a marine I was trained to react, as a man I think I had that tendency to begin with. If you do not want this mans attention then act out in some way to let him know. If you get in the habit or continue the habit of passivity, coming back here for approval you will always live in fear.
I see what Bean Counter was trying to do, though the concieted bastard (can I say that?) makes it look like he is just an ass. He wants you to get mad and taste it, roll it around on your tounge and then use it. He is probably just out of Basic where they grind your face in your tears until they turn to rage.
I am surprised none of you smart people told her this but the adrenaline rush that you felt, the fight or flight rush is a thing that you used well, you fled, if nescesarry you will fight, just do not freeze. Stop second guessing yourself and trust in the anger to put on your War Face and go with it. As a woman there is almost nothing you cannot get away with and almost no action that will be wrong. So go out with your head held high and trust your rage to see you through. The reason the experience marked you so much is the fear reaction causes the memory to intensify, it is more vivid because you survived the trauma and that means your brain wants to be sure to remember what you did right. (I was scared by the lion and I climbed the tree and I lived...) If you had more fright in your life it would not seem so powerful.
To Bean Counter: It would not hurt you to let them in on it after the fact, I would hate to see you get booted for being to clever for your own good. Good luck on your tour.
LCPL Bryant James E
PS I like the icons they are fun, sorry if I overuse them! Posts: 117 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote: As a woman there is almost nothing you cannot get away with and almost no action that will be wrong.
Socially, perhaps, but you missed the part where he grabbed her. Physically, if a guy gets pissed at me and decided to take me down a notch, there's not that much I can do about it. So yea, her adrenaline should see her through yelling at him on the phone; but going out and seeking a physical confrontation would be asking for trouble.
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
Damn Marines, where are you Jar Head we need to go out for a beer!
Okay I got everybody mad to demonstrate correct action by making inaction unbearable, but I never cried in Basic! (Unless you count the Gas Chamber)
I was close to a girl who was not spooked by a guy, she was asked directions, dragged into a car, raped by two of the four men inside and then rescued by the police who caught up with them.
She had the courage to pull it together and have a great year in school, make friends and date, all because she just made it a few minutes in her life that she passed through instead of the central focus of her life. It became trivial and her courage actually taught me the same lesson. When it is done let it pass. Trust the lesson and put your attention elsewhere.
Attention is the coin of the universe, trauma fixes attention and steals your ability to achieve. It is fastest to splash water in the face of such fixation, not attempt to share it and increase its power.
posted
You realize that nothing you say is encouraging at all to anyone in this thread? If anything, it's making things much much worse. Don't try to tell us what we should or should not be scared of or upset about. It's not your place.
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
First of all, BC, look up a bit, and note the warning.
Second of all, I feel very bad for your "friend" (not that you were much of a friend to her). Encouraging someone to live in denial is a cruel thing. Someday she will have to deal with it, and these things tend to get worse when not dealt with. Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Anyplace on a college campus a shrieking hellcat, clawing and screaming would be rescued in short order.
I would bet the guy is more scared of her being scared then she is scared. He is under a far stricter sentence then she is. Well in the states, I gather you are in some other country? Maybe they have different standards.
I got your e-mail BC, I will think about it. Posts: 117 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote: I feel very bad for your "friend" (not that you were much of a friend to her).
Do not speak of things you know nothing of, it is for her to judge our relationship not someone with absolutly no information to build with. She did face it, then she stopped facing it. It is silly to 'face' such things forever. Would you have her Rapists rule her life? Make a random act of violence the definition of who she is?
quote: Anything can be dropped from your life just like that... It takes personal power to understand and act on this... a warrior does not need personal history, he has his impeccability.
posted
Rape is not one of those things you can just ignore. It will effect your life forever. True you do not need to dwell, but dealing with it is important.
I don't think this guy is a huge threat, but it would be smart to talk to the university to see how they would recommend handling it. It also might be good to keep a friend around when possible as well as a charged cell phone. This strikes me as a very unpleasant situation, but not one that is extremely dangerous. It is always good to be safe though.
Posts: 1015 | Registered: Aug 2004
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So much to respond to, I seem to have been asleep during the most heated part of this discussion...
First thing's first: Bean Counter, I have no idea of most of what you said, as it was deleted by the mods by the time I got here. I do have some idea, however, because I think two of your posts did make it through the banning. While I don't mean to explode at you, I appreciate your concern in this issue, but I don't agree with what you are saying. Fine, you may tell me that now I have to shove off and find another crowd to whine to, if I'm not going to listen to what someone says to me, but I'm not sure how old you are if you think that the point of college is to get drunk and high, and spend the weekends screwing different girls because that's maybe what's shown in the films. College is about receiving an education, and furthering your knowledge... if I choose to become interested in boys, that's a side matter. If I choose to drink, I pay the consequences. But college is not just a big national orgy, it really honestly does have a purpose. I am here, in the Hebrew University to try and fulfill that purpose for myself, as are the 22,600 other students enrolled.
I can understand that some people might be gratified to have their education interrupted by some idiot who tries to pick them up, and makes them go through an experience that they have never gone through before. Some people might be excited by that. I am not one of them. The guy scared me, because nobody has ever done that around me before, and I didn't know how to handle it. When I thought I had gotten over that, he scared me once again in that he didn't forget about me, or choose not to pursue the girl who, to put it mildly, was less than enthusiastic about his proposition, but rather called me, almost two weeks later, on a phone number he probably knows full well he shouldn't be using. Maybe I'm doing the wrong thing and should be very friendly to him, because he is, after all, a misunderstood boy who just wants to be friends, and is upset because he's constantly rejected. But I personally see it as borderline stalking, and it truly frightens me that he has not yet given up on me, even after I clearly indicated that I did not appreciate him doing what he was doing, and that I was very happily with someone else.
*breathe* Now, to respond to what some other people said:
Noemon: Thank you. Really, thank you. I just felt awful when I saw that I had done that, because after all, you don't know me, and for me to impose on your weekend like that... I was just having a really rough day yesterday (so what else is new, right?), and then I got back and saw that, and just lost my mind. I'm really glad you care about me (and this part goes for all of you), and thank you so much. I don't know where I'd be without you.
Ela: *thwap self* I TOLD you I was tired! I did know that, I'm just stupid. Wow, I can't believe I said that!
Squick: Thanks. I think what you said is very sensible, and thank you for clearing my head a little. While I do realize that not everyone in the world is good, and that it's ok to unload this stuff on other people, sometimes it's a little hard to believe, as Beren said, that something like this (that happened to me) could have such a strong effect. We all feel that we're building up an immunity to such feelings from watching films, and reading books, and from personal stories from other people. It's unfortunate, but people think that. What's even more unfortunate is that it's not even remotely true, and quite the opposite.
Jar Head: There are many actions that are "wrong" if performed by women; both actions that men get condemned for as well, but also ones that are gender-specific to women. I'm taking a womens' studies class three hours a week... don't make me get started here. Women, while getting some reprieve from certain things that men don't, have troubles of their own. I can't think how many times in today's society I think how unfair it is that a man can get away with something, but the minute a woman tries, she gets blasted by the state. Much of that is probably due to the fact that a percentage of men perceive women as that, as a group of people who won't get in trouble, so it's "up to the boys" to make sure they can find things that will put them above the female population.
Intel, Stryker, Syn, Kwea, AJ, fugu, blacwolve, kaioshin, Troub, Boris, Dag, whisky, Beren, rivka, RRR, and Allegra: I just want to thank you all for listening to me whine. I don't want to reopen the argument by answering whether or not I should have taken this to Hatrack, as was discussed in some length by all of you while I was sleeping last night... but you really are wonderful friends. And each and every one of your posts made me feel a little bit better. *hugs to all of you* Thanks a million. Posts: 7877 | Registered: Feb 2003
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I did know that, I'm just stupid. Wow, I can't believe I said that!
