quote:Well, it said there's a "Psychological Centre," and on Har HaTzofim it's in the Maiserdorf dorms (which btw, I have no idea how to find). I might try that rivka, thanks... I don't know. We'll see. I'll write down the number, anyway.
Raia, I hope you find your way to getting some counseling and/or talking with campus security. This is definitely not over-reacting -- it is hard, hard stuff, and it messes with your sense of self and well-being.
Hatrack is always here and open for you, but there is not much we can do but listen. You could ease our minds a bit by getting some help where you are. But of course, what we can do from here , we will. Take good care of yourself.
(((Raia)))
[ November 16, 2004, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: Sara Sasse ]
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posted
Luckily, it was in public... I was in the bookstore, buying a few things that I needed for class, and suddenly I heard "hey Shani!" behind me... I turned around... and it was him.
My initial reaction was "aaaaaaah!" but thankfully I didn't say that out loud. Apparently my cold countenance over the phone came across somewhat. He seemed somewhat shy (but then he was somewhat shy the first time as well, so that doesn't mean anything). He tried to chat and joke with me, and I kept getting intentionally distracted by things on the shelves. The whole encounter was very short, but he was obviously not through with trying to get to me when he left. And I wasn't going to run after him specifically to tell him I want him to leave me alone... that would have served an opposite purpose.
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posted
Raia, you need to be clear with him. By just being “distracted” you leave him an out for not taking the hint. I know it’s hard, and I know it seems rude, but if you really want no contact, when he tries to talk to you again you need to say, “I do not want to talk to you. Do not call me.”
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posted
I agree with dkw -- but I also would agree with Raia that probably a public book store is not an easy place to do it. I probably wouldn't tell a guy off in public, even in a low voice, if there were other people around. Too much risk of HIM making a scene.
posted
The problem is, he keeps taking me by surprise. If I could prepare or something, or if I knew I was supposed to see him, I wouldn't turn into such an incompetent mess. I just completely lose my balance when I'm taken by surprise like that.
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posted
I agree with dkw. You are not being mean or rude by being clear; you are being honest. I know it's hard to do. You will be just as sweet after, but you won't be scared anymore.
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quote: By just being “distracted” you leave him an out for not taking the hint.
There is no clearer way to say it, and there is nobody to do it but you.
Dana is right -- this is so hard. Years of training have to be bucked. But your choices are either to be (what feels like) rude or to continue to have to deal with him like this.
Not being clear is also a choice. I remember hoping that if I just slid out of sight, he would go away. Eventually get the hint. But it doesn't work that way.
This is another reason why getting the appropriate persons involved in your situation at your campus would be ideal. Not only will you find out that this goes on all the time (sad, but true), but you also get positive reinforcement for taking the necessary steps.
I don't want to make you feel like you can't post here unless you do what I (or anyone else) thinks you should. You don't need that pressure, too! But I'm pretty sure nothing is going to change, unless it escalates, until this gets tackled head on.
I wish it were different.
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posted
This might sound corny, but role-playing might help you prepare yourself. Since you don't want to seek him out, the statement is going to have to be made at a time of his choosing, not yours.
"<name>, I don't want to see, talk to, or have any other contact with you at any time in the future. This is not a temporary wish, nor one which anything you say can change. Thank you for respecting me enough to comply."
Wait a few sentences for him to agree. If he says nothing, simply say "Goodbye" and walk away. If he asks why, say "It doesn't matter. This is what I want." If he tries to convince you otherwise, simply say, "No thank you" and walk away.
You would need to roleplay all possible outcomes and your responses. And you must not fear a scene. If he makes one, he's merely confirming your choice.
Edit: And it's likely a counselor will know how to do this with you.
posted
Very true. And like Sara said, the last thing you need is to feel pressure from us to do what we say. You've got some very wise people here offering you good advice, make no mistake, but don't feel like any of us are trying to push you around.
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posted
I do not get why this is necessary at this point. From reading this thread, it seems like this is just a clueless guy who might be infatuated with Raia and doesn't know that she doesn't like him back. Because Raia isn't being clear about how she feels, she is causing the problem in this situation.
quote: Raia, I hope you find your way to getting some counseling and/or talking with campus security.
As for talking with campus security and getting 'counseling'...uh, suffice to say that I think these are probably not warranted. I hope some guy trying to kiss you doesn't mean you need 'counselling', though I guess if you feel like you need it because of this, I'm certainly not going to say you shouldn't get it. And how can you in good conscience report this guy to campus security before you make sure he understands the situation? What are you going to tell them? "He tried to kiss me, I said 'no', and then he stopped. I think he still likes me, but I just can't be bothered to tell him straight up how I feel. Can you look into this?"
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posted
(((((Raia))))) I'm sorry I didn't see this thread sooner.
Just ignoring them when they try to talk to you doesn't always work. Being cold, and "rude" takes time to really have an affect, too. You need to just tell him to leave you alone, and that you don't want him contacting you anymore. That's probably the best thing you could do right now. If you're still upset, you should really talk to someone about it.
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quote:What bothers me is that he either didn't pick up on or ignored some very serious signals from her. He held her to him as she was trying to pull away -- and this was a woman he just met, within the last hour.
He held down a woman trying to get away -- a woman he had just met within the last hour or two.
If anyone thinks that is okay or just harmless fun, then they weren't raised right.
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posted
Johnny, he didn't just try to kiss her. He took her to a remote rea where it would be hard for her to get help, grabbed her, and tried to kiss her as she was obviously trying to get away from him. That's entirely different.
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quote:And how can you in good conscience report this guy to campus security before you make sure he understands the situation? What are you going to tell them? "He tried to kiss me, I said 'no', and then he stopped. I think he still likes me, but I just can't be bothered to tell him straight up how I feel. Can you look into this?"
I would imagine one would call and ask to speak to someone for advice about how to handle an incident, then describe the incident, then ask for advice from a professional.
What is so weird or difficult about that, Johnny? Those I know who work in campus security would love to be called before something escalates, and they would generally offer very good advice.
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Rehease a couple of times what you want to say to him and then call him.
Tell him, clearly and in no uncertain terms, that you do not want to speak to him again. Period.
If he approaches you in public, make eye contact and tell him to go away.
But at the end of the day, you have to do what feels right to you and remember, be critical of your choices because in analyzing our mistakes, we can learn valuable lessons. But being critical of yourself is a waste of time and energy.
posted
Raia, I'm not entirely certain how you feel about this, but I can guess. I've had some very needy boys follow me around, and I know how hard it is to say 'no' to them. I don't want to make a scene or hurt their feelings. However, there are two people's feelings involved in this: yours as well as his. And weighing your feelings of fear against his feelings of rejection, yours win out. You don't have to be nasty, just firm. Remember that whatever his emotional reaction to this is, you are probably hurting him way less than he is hurting you. And it's ultimately his problem for being so aggressive.
And for some odd reason that I have not yet figured out, my cell phone blocks caller ID if the number is in Jerusalem. It's really weird, I can see the number if it's from out of town, but if the number is in Jerusalem, it's blocked. So I can't figure out his number, either.
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posted
No, and no (I know the University doesn't have a directory, because I looked into that the moment I heard Natalie Portman might be on campus. They only have a staff directory). And I only know his first name, and it's Yuval, one of the most common boys' names in this country.
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posted
Shigosei makes a good point - well beyond anything you might actually say to him, this is a good chance to face your fears and talk to a mirror.
Even if I never have a chance to say what I'm thinking, I do find venting and articulating what I would like to say helps me expel the emotional turmoil boiling in the background.
And you have the added benefit of having given some thought to what you'd like to say to him - besides, of course, "ick."
posted
Even if he isn't a stalker, I don't think introducing him to a forum in which Raia spends so much time would do anything for the comfort of either of them.
Anyway, Raia, I hope you get this settled both in your mind and with the individual. Take as much time and as desperate a measure as you feel you need to. As long as you don't kill the guy, I'll (and though I don't like to speak for others, I'm sure we'll) support your decision and action.
posted
Maybe some posts. The whole topic is, like, 50 pages in the printer-friendly version, and it would be pretty tedious to cut the link from the bottom of every page.
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posted
If the guy has any control issues, showing him how much emotional effect he has on Raia would probably be a bad idea. he might easily take it as evidence that she "secretly" likes him. I don't know that he's sociopathic, just that the possibility exists and this could exacerbate the situation.
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I'm currently just 1200 dollars short of making the flight... I've already packed...
Ok, on a serious note.
This guy is bad news, we've established that.
He has social issue, once again, already established.
He either doesn't know he's getting a hint, or is intentionally ignoring it. If he calls, tell him, "I don't like you and i'd apreciate if you'd leave me alone." If he does it again, file a complaint with campus security.
And if he does it a third time. I'm comming over there and playing over protective big brother... And you've seen how I am when I get that way.
(((Raia))) (((Anyone who'll pay for my plane ticket))) (((Everyone who's posted on this thread, excluding the one moron)))
[ November 17, 2004, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: J T Stryker ]
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posted
If the guy really is a stalker, then printing this thread out, or even part of the thread, may be enough to lead to Hatrack via a Google search.
Though I'm sure we could help Raia come up with a statement that she could say to him/give him next time he contacts her. As long as he doesn't know it's from a forum, he probably won't think to search for it.
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I still believe what I told you, little one--call the cops next time he calls you. Anti-stalking laws were established for a reason.
I also would recomend therapy--it might give you a little bit of self-confidence (always a plus). It's worked very well for me. You have my email and my phone numbers, if you need me, and I'm avaliable 24/7.
To our trolls, leave. Now. You're not only upseting a few people, but you're also proving two points: that you are a) insensitive to other people and b) that you despererately need attention. Go find someone else to fill the void in your life, be it between your ears or where your heart should be.
posted
Whoa, that was mean and awesome. Mayday, if I ever need to tell somebody off, I'm asking you to write the letter. Posts: 2292 | Registered: Aug 2003
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OMG! (((((((((((raia))))))))))))) I only just now saw this thread and have spent the evening reading it all. (((((((((((raia))))))))))))
Im sorry this happend to you raia. Most of what people have said is apsolutly dead on. im only going to repeat what every one (well, almost everyone) eles has said. (i dont think JLW, ment bad... espesually compared to BC... but still...).
Please go to the health/ counsoling center please . Its not a bad idea to go anyway. They could help you with a lot of things, not just what this jerk has done. Figure out a short, sweet statement for him next time he call (even if you cant hear what he is saying) or sees you. Please Please Please If not for yourself, then for the next woman youll probably have to comphort someday when this happens to them.
We all love you and wish we could do this and make it easyer for you, but we cant. This is something you have to do for yourself.
posted
I echo Fiona, you could really gain by going to the counseling center anyway, so just think of this as extra incentive.
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First, my wife (and her best friend, one of my closest friends) was in a situation both simliar and dissimilar a few years back. My wife was taking Russian, and her pre-assigned study partner was shy, just like she is. After a while, they started talking, and she said he seemed really shy and lonely, and felt really bad for him.
Well, pretty soon he started hitting on her, following her everywhere, calling her all the time, etc. Now, my wife and I were not married at the time, but we'd been dating for five years and it was pretty obvious where things were going. That didn't slow him down . . .
I tried to make my wife tell him to go away, but she said that would be like "kicking a puppy". This guy basically stalked both my wife and her best friend (who is engaged to MY best friend--the four of us are very tight) for two years. The whole time, the girls refused to flat-out tell him off because they didn't want to be mean. It wasn't until this guy actually moved to Russia that he stopped stalking them . . . he met a nice Russian girl and settled down.
The second thing is that there was something about this guy that I recognized in my young self. Basically, guys who are "late bloomers" socially all go through this at some point. They don't have any female friends, they never really interacted with girls before, and suddenly they're out there in the world. All they have to go on is what they've seen in the movies--where the girl always picks the smart, sensitive, nice guy over the jerky jock she's dating, and it's only five minutes from "Hello!" to "I am completely in love with you!" I understood where the guy was coming from, because I felt the same way when I was in junior high. I was smart, I was sensitive, I wanted a serious relationship . . . it just never occured to me that girls have feelings too. They don't just automatically fall for the first smart, sensitive guy they come across! The watershed moment for me was when a girl I didn't like had a crush on me. It was like, "Wow, now I understand what every girl who ever shot me down felt like!"
This guy may be freaky, he may be a stalker, or he may just be shy and inexperienced with girls. Be FIRM, be CLEAR, and DO NOT WAVER. You don't have to kick him in the family jewels, just set your boundaries and don't be shy about it. If you decide he might not be a bad friend, just be CLEAR and CONSISTENT that you are not, and will not, be interested in him romantically. If you never want to see him again, be FIRM and CLEAR and explain yourself why, so that this dude doesn't spend his whole life "making his move" five minutes after meeting a girl, and consequently dying alone.
posted
And DON'T APOLOGIZE for not liking him, for not being in love with him, for not wanting to be his friend, or anything else. You don't owe him an apology. Period.
I've said it before, and I'm going to say it again. Use short sentences. The same ones over and over again until it gets through. "I'm not interested. Leave me alone. I don't want to talk to you ever again." Repeat and repeat until he gets it. No explanations, no apologies. Just short sentences.
You can do this, Raia! Believe in yourself!
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
policyvote, that was an excellent post. Very inciteful and I think gives an accurate perception of what this guy might be like.
I think we ALL go through that phase (or most of us anyway).
And we grow out of it or get help, and then grow out of it. Or rather we should.
Raia
The guy is bothering you, that should be enough for him, Raia. If he's actually interested in being a human being, he would have paid attention to your reactions in the first place and taken better care (of you, of himeself, etc.).
Shyness and social ineptitude do not give people an excuse to run roughshod over others.
And really, this guy is good practice. I agree with others here that have suggested seeking some counseling for yourself. Learning some better coping strategies (better as in more effective, more assertive) is something you should do for your own development. This kind of stuff will keep happening to you. You can handle it. But maybe you need some ideas. It's going to happen when you least expect it, on the job with your "happily married" boss, at conferences, when you do a favor for a neighbor, and on and on. Learning how to head the situations off and/or react to them with the right mix of assertiveness and calm resolution will save you more than just the immediate assault. It can project an image of yourself to the world of confidence and no-nonsense that in itself becomes a bulwark against these unwanted, demeaning and abusive advances.
I mean, if you think about it, this is an expression of disrespect for you. He is assuming that you are easy or stupid. And if you react in a naive fashion he can (and will) interpret that as interest on your part. He'll convince himself that you're just playing the coy seduction "game" and he'll never quit.
More importantly, if that is your mechanism for dealing with cads and curs (to use the old but accurate terms), this kind of thing will keep happening to you.
I'm a little bit blunt here and I do apologize if I hurt your feelings at all. But in my opinion you need to make some conscious choices not just about this guy but about how you are going to deal with men (and even some women) as you progress through your life.
First time through, this can be scary, but I promise you that the strategies will help and that you aren't a bad person for shutting down inappropriate advances of insensitive jerks.
I also promise you that it doesn't make you "cold" or blocked from ever accepting the advances of a truly nice, respectful guy (should you really want that). Nice guys expect the woman to take some measure of control over the pace and direction of a relationship. It becomes mutually directed soon enough, but in the beginning I'd say most men are willing to stop at an expression of interest without all the overt stuff this guy is pulling.
A thought to ponder. In my opinion this situation has already gotten out of control. One of you is going to control it. Will it be him or you? Will you let him keep "suprising" you or will you find a way to stop him?
Creeps like this don't become calmer over time, Raia. Most of them get worse. Some of them get dangerous. Another thing a counselor can do is help you figure out what you need to do to protect yourself and if you should call campus security.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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I hope things are going better for you in this situation. Let me reiterate what many others in this thread have already pointed out (with the few exceptions who are well known by now), you did nothing wrong.
There have been many opinions about whether or not this guy was just a plain creep or a awkward, socially inept young man who is in great need of learning some social graces. Although I don't think it is your responsibility to teach him these social graces, perhaps you could look at asserting yourself and letting him know in no uncertain terms you are not interested in him as his first lesson. Hopefully, he is a fast learner. If he turns out to be the former, than kick him to the curb.
Either way, you do not deserve to be put in the position you are in now.
***Story Time*** My own experiences have not been as traumatic as your's, but a friend of mine, who was married, got involved with young man. At first, she liked his advances and flattery in no small part because her marriage was not doing very well. This young man saw her vulnerability and exploited it. Many of us, her friends, saw this man as a creep, but she did not see it at first. As her marriage fell apart, the young man increased his advances, sending her flowers on Valentine's Day and other gifts. She saw these gestures as sweet, but soon realized that by doing so, there was no way she could explain the gifts away to her husband. When she tried to break it off, he became increasingly agitated and took to following her around campus and driving by her house, even when her husband was around.
We tried helping her out by being around her at all times when she was on campus. We made it our business, as her friends, to sit with her at lunch times, walk with her to classes and her car, and just pull up a chair if we saw him try to talk to her. Needless to say, he was not fond of us. In fact, we later learned that he had never really been fond of any of us because we "monopolized" her time. (I had kind of sensed these vibes long before hand and had many conversations with another friend about these feelings. She also had gotten the same vibes from this guy. And, we were both worried about her situation. Sidenote: These bad vibes became very real when he once told all of us, while sitting at lunch, that he could come up behind us and snap our necks if he wanted to and no one would be able to stop him in time. He claimed to have learned this in the military. Needless to say, the scathing looks we all gave him made him quickly retract and claim it was a joke. My friend was not there at the time so she believed his version of the story for the longest time until his behavior changed towards her.)
After awhile, he did stop stalking her, but it wasn't because of us or her efforts. (Even with all the making her feel uncomfortable and down right scared, she refused to be rude to him.) We later found out the reason he stopped stalking her was because she finally got the courage to tell her husband, who was not the nicest guy, but turned out to be a prince in this situation. He basically found the guy and told him in no uncertain terms to stop trying to contact his wife. Apparently it was so affective that he stopped attending college. (I know... Soprano moment perhaps.)
So what was my point... oh right. Telling someone... anyone in authority can only help your situation, even if it is just for backup. This guy may not be as creepy as the one my friend was involved in, but it is better to be safe than sorry. Please stay safe.
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But of course, what we can do from here , we will. Take good care of yourself.![[Frown]](frown.gif)
You don't need that pressure, too! But I'm pretty sure nothing is going to change, unless it escalates, until this gets tackled head on. ![[Kiss]](graemlins/kiss.gif)
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