posted
You know, I wonder if Dumbledore wanted Harry to know how a horcrux was made partially to point out what killing does to the soul. Harry will have to make a choice about killing Voldemort one of these days. It would be interesting if he chooses not to.
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Another RAB possibility (though pretty unlikely) = Amelia Bones, who's mentioned as having been killed off in chapter 1.
(btw, I don't mean to be bloodthirsty or anything, but I'm glad to see that the body count goes up in book 6. After hearing about how horrible Voldemort was in the past and how many people he'd killed, it seemed pretty tame that he and the Death Eaters only killed a few folks in books 4 and 5. So it's good to see Voldemort living up to his reputation in book 6.)
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R: Remus Lupin. A: Albus Dumbledore. B: Bill Weasley. Yeah, I know, ridiculous. I don't even believe it's more than one person, but here I am, making things up...
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It's kind of hard to tell because we don't really have a full list of all the DE...just the ones Moody talks about or we hear LV or DD mention in the encounters. We know R.A.B. was likely a DE, or a former DE, so it's real tough to tell. The only person who matches, as of now, is Regulus. I just wonder if that's too easy...I hope not, because then he could still be alive. Everyone says if he was, the house would pass to him, but the house skipped over Bellatrix even though she was the only remaining family member...so you never know, Reggy could still be out there somewhere
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It wouldn't pass to him, because Sirius deliberately left it to Harry. Sirius was the last DIRECT decendent, thus it's his call as to who gets the house.
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Why should Regulus need to be alive for RAB to mean him? He says in the note that he's probably already dead by the time Voldemort gets the note, so I think it's fine for him to be dead.
1) When Dumbledore's telling Harry about the curse on the ring, he tells him how deadly the curse was and that Snape helped him to survive the curse. (So: if Snape REALLY wanted Dumbledore dead, he had a much easier chance to do it earlier by not helping Dumbledore.)
2) I'm guessing that the reason that Voldermort fulfilled the prophecy by attacking Harry instead of Neville was that Voldemort did it because of Snape -- a) Voldemort killed James because he knew it would make Snape happy, b) Voldemort killed Lily as a way of testing Snape's loyalty to Voldemort, or c) both.
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Hmff. Guess this has now become A Thread Too Long.
Anyway, before I wander over to the newer thread... Amelia Bones is right out, in book 5 her full name is read out as Amelia Susan Bones.
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quote:I'm guessing that the reason that Voldermort fulfilled the prophecy by attacking Harry instead of Neville was that Voldemort did it because of Snape
Or Snape pointed out that the prophecy fit Harry and touted it in such a way that Voldemort never considered the Longbottoms.
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No, he picked Harry to Kill because Harry was just like him, a half-blood in a way. Or perhaps he considered him less of a threat than full-blooded Neville.
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Just a side thought: the act of murder splits/rips the soul. Legally, we differentiate between murder and other kinds of killing, ex. manslaughter, self defense, war. Can Harry kill Voldemort without murdering him? Maybe, maybe not. You probably can't nonmurderously kill someone you hate that much, but I guess we'll see!
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Dumbledore tells Harry that Snape had no way of knowing that the information he gave Voldemort would cause him to kill Harry's parents.
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Something just occured to me. What, exactly, are the effects of the Avada Kedavra curse, besides death? I mean, The Riddles were found perfectly preserved at the dinner table. The spider in Moody's DADA class was the same, except with requisite green light. The spell rebounding blew up the Potter's entire house, but that was an exception. Do we ever hear of the recipient of the killing curse getting *thrown up into the air and out the nearest window*? I need to read up on how Cedric died, that could be the kink in my musing.
My point? Did Dumbledore die of a killing curse, or from a fall from the window?
I have an idea of Snape (good, evil, whatever) mustering up as much hate as he can toward Dumbledore in order to perform Avada Kedavra...and coming up woefully short. He just doesn't hate Dumbly (who would, really?*). So, in order to follow through with killing him (for good, evil, whatever) he did a leviacorpus to do the deed.
My proof? Petrified! Harry couldn't vocalize his reaction to the AK curse hitting Dumbledore in the chest.
*with one or two blindingly obvious exceptions.
Posts: 4089 | Registered: Apr 2003
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OK, here are my thoughts and theories after reading the book [spoilers].
I was surprised when Snape Killed Dumbledore, but I wouldn't be at all surprised that Dumbledore had ordered Snape to do so, just as he ordered Harry to leave him if he needed him to -- to save Harry. At that point in the story, Snape would have died if he hadn't killed Dumbledore because of the unbreakable vow that he had made. I believe it was Snape not wanting to that he and D were arguing about which Hagrid overheard.
My theory is that when it comes down to the final moments of the story in the final book, it'll be Harry vs. Voldemort and the Snake and Snape will be there. Snape will kill the snake, thus destroying the last horcrux leaving Voldemort vulnerable for Harry to finish the job.
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Another of my theories is about what the horcruxes are. We know that there are 7 pieces of Voldemort's soul:
1. himself 2. The Diary -- destroyed 3. The ring -- destroyed 4. The locket -- I believe this is destroyed by RAB 5. Hufflepuff's Goblet -- not yet found 6. The snake, Nagini -- with Voldemort 7. Unknown
In a mugglenet.com/the-leaky-cauldron.org interview, J.K. Rowling indicated that the identity of the last Horcrux can be figured out by reading the books:
"JKR: But Dumbledore has given him some pretty valuable clues and Harry, also, in the course of previous six books has amassed more knowledge than he realizes. That's all I am going to say.
"ES: It seems like it would be impossible. If Harry had gone to the cave, he never could have done it on his own, it seems like.
"JKR: Well, I'm prepared to bet you now, that at least before the week is out, at least one of the Horcruxes will have been correctly identified by careful re-readers of the books."
So, here's my weak theory about it. I'm sure others may have other ideas but since a Horcrux is made by someone murdering someone else, I believe that one was made when Moaning Myrtle was killed while Tom Riddle was attending Hogwarts. So what is the Horcrux? Well, what was one thing that Dumbledore said that Tom Riddle Cared about? Hogwarts. Could it be that the school itself is a Horcrux? I don't know, but I'm almost sure that one was made when Myrtle was killed.
What do you think?
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Riddle himself didnt kill Moaning Myrtle. The Basilsk did it on his orders. Therefore Riddle´s soul couldnt have split because he didnt actually murder her.
And i think the horcrux was the locket found in Sirius' house. R.A.B is most likely Regulus Black.
Posts: 243 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quiden -- re: Hogwarts as a horcrux -- yeah! That's one of my theories, too, I posted it somewhere in this thread. (So when book 7 comes out and if I'm right, I'm going to VERY proudly remind Hatrack folks that I was the first to predict it.)
(Of course, if I'm wrong, I won't say anything... )
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Oh and just one more thing if RAB is Regulus Black. RAB would have needed another person with him to make him drink the potion or vice versa. this person would have to not be recognised by the boat. Kreacher anyone??? Riddle wouldnt count a house elf as an equal so Kreacher wouldnt be recognised.
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Then why would Dumbledore want him to keep the unbreakable vow? He could still have saved Malfoy (I don't know how, but it has to be possible), and Snape dying would have destroyed a horcrux.
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"Well, I'm prepared to bet you now, that at least before the week is out, at least one of the Horcruxes will have been correctly identified by careful re-readers of the books"
Yeah, that would be the locket at Grimmald Place. The Kreacher connection fits with that nicely.
Anyone else notice "the Grimm" hiding in "Grimmald place?" Is Serius really a Grimm? And if he is, what does he represent?
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Dumbledore explained that a live horcrux would not be a good idea. Voldemort used Nagini because he didn't have any other options. He definitely would not have made Snape into a horcrux.
Bear in mind, the "Harry as a Horcrux" theory only works because Voldemort's Horcrux/Avada Kedavra preparations went awry when Lily put her protection on Harry. Voldemort wouldn't have made Harry a horcrux on purpose.
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But the locket has already been identified as a horcrux. That's why we're trying to guess what the last one is.
I would be willing to bet that it is not snape.
PLAID: Great to see we're on the same page. I haven't read all of the posts here. Maybe we won't be the only one's who think that.
About Voldemort not killing Myrtle-- I'm not sure about this, but didn't she say that she didn't really see what killed her? Just the eyes maybe? "I was distraught!"
Besides, wouldn't Voldemort be killing her if he was controlling the Basilisk at the time? if he was responsible? I don't think it was an accident.
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Looking a basilisk in the eyes kills you instantly. Thus, she saw a great set of eyes, and died. As to whether or not it counts as Volemort commiting murder or not (because it was on his orders), that's anyone's guess.
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Hmm. I can't say I like it, but I haven't heard the "Harry is a Horcrux" idea before. I guess it does make a bit of sense, though. Voldemort transferred a bit of himself into Harry when he tried to kill him. It could have been a part of his soul, but...
You know. Come to think of it, I don't think this is true at all. Because -- he gave Lily a chance to live so he wasn't necessarily bent on killing her to make a horcrux, and also he intended to kill Harry, so he wouldn't be planning to have made him a horcrux anyway.
Unless... Hey, Godric's Hollow could be the horcrux... [and it goes on and on and on....]
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Glenn Arnold i dont really think Siriusis a grim. Maybe the name Grimmauld Place is a hint that Sirius was going to die. Plus when harry enters the house he says it felt like he was entering the house of a dying man.
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"Looking a basilisk in the eyes kills you instantly. Thus, she saw a great set of eyes, and died. As to whether or not it counts as Volemort commiting murder or not (because it was on his orders), that's anyone's guess."
Well, I always thought that Riddle used the death of Myrtle to make the horcrux diary. From what we know of horcruxes, doesnt it have to be done pretty fast after a death? It would make sense then that the death of Myrtle created the diary horceux.
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Quiden- The idea I find most plausible is that LV meant to make a horcrux out of Harry's death (remember Dumbledore said it would be like him to use 'significant' deaths for his horcruxes?), but that Lily got in the way and messed things up somehow.
Not that Harry IS a horcrux, exactly, but I think there is plenty of evidence that he has something that connects him to Voldemort. He could see visions of what the snake was doing (it has a portion of LV's soul) and Harry is a Parselmouth, very, very rare, but something he shares with LV.
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posted
Well, another thought that i have about the whole attack on the potters and the possibility of a horcrux being made is that perhaps he was going to make something else into one but then when his plan failed, he had to make some passing snake into it, which became Nagini. Since Dumbledore said that it would not be an ideal way to make one, maybe LV was out of options.
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Nagini was made with the murder of Frank Bryce, to make up for the fact that no horcruxes were made during the Potter fiasco. And Myrtle was killed by the basilisk, and it wasn't on Riddle's orders, in the sense that he said "go kill Myrtle", and even if so, it'd be the same as him ordering a DE to "go kill Dumbledore". If all the murders that occured based off of LV's orders or minions counted towards LV's soul, then the guy is in worse shape than anyone thought...
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Isn't it kinda weird that Voldemort used Nagini to make a horcrux, then used the basilisk venom as a pre-regeneration elixer to sustain himself? It's circular, kinda.
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I don't think that Nagini was made into a Horcrux with the Murder of Frank Bryce. I think that all of the Horcruxes would have had to have been made before he attempted to kill Harry. I just don't think he would be strong enough to make one afterwards.
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Bottom of page 116 in the American children's hardback of OotP. The chapter called "The Noble and Most Ancient House of Black."
quote:...they all found themselves becoming curiously weak and sleepy until Ginny had the sense to slam the lid shut; also a heavy locket that none of them could open...
posted
" I don't think that Nagini was made into a Horcrux with the Murder of Frank Bryce. I think that all of the Horcruxes would have had to have been made before he attempted to kill Harry."
Dumblefore said that Harry's murder was intended to create the final horcrux, but that since the spell failed, he used Frank Bryce's murder to make Nagini a horcrux, which explained why Harry could see through the eyes of the snake.
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I think what actually allowed Harry to see through Nagini's eyes was that LV was possessing her at the time. Not much to do with the horcrux...
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I recall that too. Voldemort was guiding Nagini to do things and Harry was viewing it through Voldemort. That makes the most sense anyway.
Wasn't Frank Bryce killed something like 12 years after the attempted burder of Harry anyway? I don't see how there would be any connection between Harry and Nagini based on that.
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Ok, now I might have to go back and check, but I don't remember Dumbledore saying that the creation of the Horcrux Nagini was connected with Frank Bryce. Did he say that or are people just assuming?
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I just reviewed Dumbledore talking about the Nagini Horcrux and he says, "After an interval of some years, however, he used Nagini to kill an old Muggle man, and it might then have occurred to him to turn her into his last Horcrux."
I suppose it could be Frank Bryce, but it seemed to me in GOF that Voldemort killed Frank himself -- in fact, I'm sure of it because Frank came out of his wand, which if Nagini killed him, his wand wouldn't have been involved.
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quote:Originally posted by quiden: "JKR: Well, I'm prepared to bet you now, that at least before the week is out, at least one of the Horcruxes will have been correctly identified by careful re-readers of the books."
We're still looking for a magical item tied to Godric Gryffindor. That could be the sword or the sorting hat, but how about a hippogriff? It would be deliciously ironic if Harry was forced to slay horcrux Witherwings. Maybe they renamed Buckbeak, not because it has wings on its withers, but because its wings are going to wither.
We know that hippogriffs can be owned by humans because Harry inherited Buckbeak from Sirius. Who owned Buckbeak before that? Could Buckbeak have been owned by Godric?
If Buckbeak is a horcrux, and if RAB had collected other horcruxes, how ironic it is that all of the horcruxes could have been under the same roof at Grimmauld Place, right under the Order's noses.
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I'm beginning to agree with the scar-horcrux theory.
It is significant that Harry was attacked at Godric's Hollow; LV probably wanted to create a horcrux from a Gryffindor relic, and Godric's Hollow is the best place to find something like that (given that Hogwarts is so well guarded).
When LV's spell backfired, the horrcurx spell went haywire and created a tiny horcrux on Harry's forehead.
Does anyone remember who was the first wizard to arrive at Godric's Hollow after the attack? Was it Black, Pettigrew, Dumbledore, Lupin, Snape, or one of the death eaters?
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