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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Lost Season 3 Discussion - Spoilers Galore! (Page 15)

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Author Topic: Lost Season 3 Discussion - Spoilers Galore!
David Bowles
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I prefer to think that Locke was flash-forwarding... that'd help explain his virulent attempt to stop Naomi and then Jack.
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Olivet
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O_O (not to anyone, just in general at the episode).

Anyone notice the shark?

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Xavier
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quote:

Anyone notice the shark?

I did not. I remembered the Dharma stamped shark when the girl was shown floating in the water (with blood) and I expected the shark to come any minute.
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Strider
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quote:
How does one explain Desmond being able to jump forward and backward in time?
I don't think he does. Are you talking about the episode where he finds himself reliving the past? I'm pretty sure that's just one big island induced hallucination. And his premonitions are just an afteraffect or result of his interaction with the island after turning the failsafe. He's been embued with part of the power that the island(Jacob) has.

quote:
t had to be a flashforward and not a flashback. How could Jack flashback to stuff he didn't know about, like what went on at the beach or Benry's reaction to finding out that Juliet betrayed him?

No, I think the troubled look on his face as he was on his way to the tower was because he was having those disturbing flashforwards. I don't think they're actually off the island yet.

Lisa, I think you're looking at the flashbacks the wrong way, it's the same way I used to view them. As actual physical flashbacks/memories the character was having at the moment. I don't think that's true anymore. We call them flashbacks, but I think it's really just the show using a convenient method to show us the history of a character.

Unless you think the scenes of Jack in the future can be course corrected and that it was truly just a vision(i would disagree with this) then it doesn't really matter whether you want to call it a flashforward and the 'present' is still them on the island, or that future jack is the 'present' and the island scenes were past. If you look at it from a perspective outside of time, events A happen and events Z happen. I just want to know what happens in between, the semantics of calling it a flashback or a flashforward aren't important to me(this isn't to say the scenes of future jack are the end of the timeline of the show, just the end of the timeline we've been shown so far).

Also, I've been thinking, if Charlie died for nothing I'm going to be really upset. I hope the information he gave Desmond helps in some way.

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Evie3217
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So, here's my two cents (okay, so more like 20):

I think Ben is right (unfortunately) about Naomi being a bad guy. As evil as that man is, he knows a LOT about the island. He must have had a good reason to block the signal and keep them all on the island, rather than his own sick pleasure. There's something larger that we don't understand. I think that Lock possibly knows more about it after the island came to him through Walt. There's more than just a need to stay on the island.

Charlie had to die in order to get them rescued. But notice that Desmond never saw Claire and Aaron actually safe on the mainland. All he saw was them getting into a helicopter. I think it's more ominous than that. Maybe Naomi's group is just as interested in the whole pregnant woman thing as Ben is.

Locke is awesome. That's all I have to say about that.

I think the person in the coffin was either Ben or someone we haven't met yet. I don't think it was Locke. It could be, but I just have this feeling that it's not, even though the newspaper article doesn't support my theory. As much as they hate Locke now, I feel that at least one person would go to his funeral, as opposed to Ben, who everyone hated.

The characters aren't actually having a flash forward. They are merely an insight for the viewer as to what happens next. They are an amazing development though, as it makes you question all the other flashbacks we have ever seen, wondering if they are really flash forwards. Also it implies that for all the craziness that goes on on the island, there's something magically good about it, at least for Jack, and he never quite regains his former self after being changed by the island.

I was actually surprised that neither of the two women in the Looking Glass was Annie. I was so sure that one of them had to be, especially after Ben's flashbacks.

I forget if someone mentioned this, but the two people who have actually had the island talk to them (Eko and Locke) are in some ways the noblest. I think the island has a way of looking into one's character and determining their moral standing. I think that's part of why Jacob hates Ben so much. He's just so corrupt and evil that he needs to get rid of him, but is trapped by that sand barrier or whatever, and so needs Locke's help in order to escape.

I think that Desmond believed what Charlie wrote on his hand. Otherwise I would think so much less of him. I think he believes that Charlie's last act in this world wasn't going to be betraying his friends. Desmond is going to have a hard time convincing the others, unless he comes too late and they're already in mortal peril from Naomi's people.

I think Mikail is a lot like Locke. He has some sort of commune with the island. In fact, I think he's a kind of evil mirror of Locke. I mean, look at how many times that man has been "killed." We haven't seen the last of him. Mark my words.

Also, as a side note, from the Greatest Hits episode, did anyone notice that the woman Charlie saved was the same woman that Sayid tortured and whose husband tortured him in return. She was the woman with the acid stains. I had always meant to say something, but I kept forgetting.

Edit to add: I agree with almost everything Strider said in the post above me. They're not flashes, merely different parts of the story that we have to piece together.

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Damien.m
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Evie I agree with you about Naomi being bad. Theres something up with her and the boat. Im not even entirely convinced that the boat they got in contact with actually rescued them. They were certainly rescued Im just not sure by who.

Oh and it wasnt the acid hands girl in the Charlie episode it was Nadia. She was the prisoner that Sayid fell in love with at a detention facility in Iraq and let go.

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Xaposert
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The good news is nobody nuked the island. [Smile]


Now... Here are my predictions for what will happen next:

Jack and gang will be rescued from the island. Their rescuers will be members of the Dharma Initiative, who have been searching for the island ever since all their workers on the island were killed - and for whatever reason could never find it. It will be revealed that the Others have been hiding the island from the Dharma Initiative for all those years. Ben's Annie will be a leader of the Dharma people. They hate eachother - both Dharma and the Others consider the other side to be "the bad guys". It is science/technology vs. mysticism/faith, more or less.

Desmond will return to Sayid, Hurley, etc. with the news that the ship was not Penny's. Sayid, always suspicious, will conclude they have been tricked, so they will hide from the rescuers. They will end up staying on the island.

Locke will also remain on the island, and will eventually meet up with Desmond, Sayid, etc. They will all meet Jacob, who will reveal to them more about the island's history. Jacob will reveal that Dharma is trying to misuse the island for their own ends, in the name of science. Together, this group will work to circumvent the Dharma people who have returned to the island. Walt will be helping too, although he may or may not actually be on the island (maybe he is captured by the Dharma folks, but is using his bizarre ability to appear to others to communicate with those on the island.) They will be the protectors of the island for season 4.

Meanwhile, there will be flash forwards to the Losties who left the island. They are told to speak nothing about their experiences on the island (hence Jack has to tell lies), and are threatened with death if they do. (Perhaps the death that shakes Jack up is caused by someone trying to tell the truth about the island) They are also given generous rewards (including Jack's gold pass.) A fake story is contrived about how Jack saved them all. Nevertheless, Jack is eventually contacted by Penny, who is still searching for Desmond. Penny and Jack bring some of the other main characters back together and they eventually return to the island - bringing a final confrontation with the Dharma people.

How's that for some more random speculation?

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Elizabeth
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Well, to stick with the stealing-from-the-Time-Traveler's-Wife theme I am on, every time Henry traveled, he knew a little bit more about his past and his future each time.

It all depended "when" he was coming from. But it was never an alternate reality. It was never an alternate timeline. it was one reality, one timeline, and he traleled along it.

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The Reader
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Originally posted by Xaposert:
quote:
The good news is nobody nuked the island. [Smile]
Not yet anyway.

I like that, Xaposert. The only problem I have with this is I think that Annie was killed in the purge. If she was unwilling to leave Dharma, then he would do it. Everything he does, he does for the island.

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Olivet
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quote:
Originally posted by Xavier:
quote:

Anyone notice the shark?

I did not. I remembered the Dharma stamped shark when the girl was shown floating in the water (with blood) and I expected the shark to come any minute.
I meant the one that got jumped. I was joking. [Big Grin] I will probably watch some of next season, but I think I've trusted them long enough. I really thought they were pulling it together at the end of this season, but I'm now convinced that they're really LOST.
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The Reader
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Do you really want everything wrapped up neatly in one or two episodes? I don't. That would be incredibly boring, and that is also when the show would truly "jump."

IMHO, I hope we keep getting mystified for the next three seasons, as long as the stories are good.

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Evie3217
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I agree with The Reader. If everything was resolved in 2 hours, I would feel incredibly gypped. I like the mystery. It makes things interesting. They said everything would change, and it did. All I can do is wait in anticipation for February.
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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by The Reader:
Originally posted by Xaposert:
quote:
The good news is nobody nuked the island. [Smile]
Not yet anyway.

I like that, Xaposert. The only problem I have with this is I think that Annie was killed in the purge. If she was unwilling to leave Dharma, then he would do it. Everything he does, he does for the island.

They showed Horace after the purge. I can't imagine they wouldn't have shown Annie if she'd been killed as well.
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stihl1
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In the recap show that came on before the finale, and was shown last week, the producers say that the remainder of the show will be like a mosaic that they will reveal a piece at a time to see the big picture. IMO, the future stuff with Jack is not a flash back or flash forward, but just another piece of that mosaic.

It reminds me of Lost Horizons, the book about Shangri La. No one can find their way to the island except by accident. No one who leaves can get back. They show jack in the future obssessed with getting back to the island now that he's off. People on the island are cured of their ills. People seemingly don't age. Those that live there consider it to be paradise.

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Strider
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damien's right about the chick Charlie saves being Nadia.

quote:
Evie I agree with you about Naomi being bad. Theres something up with her and the boat. Im not even entirely convinced that the boat they got in contact with actually rescued them. They were certainly rescued Im just not sure by who.
Or maybe you're looking at it the wrong way. Maybe the boat they called did take a certain amount of them off the island. but forceably, so we can't exactly call it a "rescue".

quote:
How's that for some more random speculation?
Tres, I like most of it and have thought pretty much along the same lines. The only thing I'm not on board with is what you say at the beginning about Dharma vs. The Others. Not that I think you're wrong, I'm just not sure you're right. decent theory though.
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Olivet
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LOL! I didn't want a neat little package, nor expect one. And I'm willing to give them a couple shows next season to remind me of their brilliance. [Big Grin] I've been a big LOST apologist up until now, through the odd turns it has taken thus far. But *shrug* I called that the X-files mythology was being pulled from someone's nether regions by the end of season 3 when most everyone still believed that show's creator had a master plan.

Now, with this show I'm willing to agree that they have a plan, but I will be mildly surprised if it isn't a profoundly stupid one when all is said and done.

The hubby was ready to pack it in after the first bit of this season, and I made him keep watching with me. It's still fun. But my high hopes for something really amazing and cool out of a TV show... Meh.

I enjoyed the finale. I think I'd like to see them kill Jack's whiny butt in the next season, or something really unexpected.

So, I have hope that it won't become something I don't want to watch. I just don't care much one way or another.

The shark thing was a joke. No need to het up about it. It would be cool if I still cared enough to mind one way or another, but I don't.*shrug*

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Wendybird
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A gal on another site posted this about the obit - I'm not sure where she got it though so I can't vouch for its accuracy but thought I'd share it anyway...

"The body of John Lantham of New York was found shortly after 4 am in the 4300 block of Grand Avenue. Ted Worden, a doorman at the Tower Lofts complex, heard loud noises coming from the victim's loft.
Concerned for tenants' safety, he entered the loft and found the body hanging from a beam in the living room. According to Jaime Ortiz, a police spokesman, the incident was deemed a suicide after medical tests. Latham (sic) is survived by one teenaged son.
Memorial services will be held at the Hoffs-Drawlar Funeral Home tomorrow evening."


I wonder if the "flash forwards" are pieces from the final season?

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Leonide
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Well the only current Lostie who would fit that description (that of having a teenaged son) would be Michael. So maybe he and Walt changed their names after returning to the real world?
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Lisa
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It would explain why Kate was so appalled that Jack would even suggest that she'd go to his funeral.
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Damien.m
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Wendybird I think that what you posted is right after looking at both it and the picture of the obit.
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The Rabbit
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quote:
Originally posted by stihl1:
It reminds me of Lost Horizons, the book about Shangri La. No one can find their way to the island except by accident. No one who leaves can get back. They show jack in the future obssessed with getting back to the island now that he's off. People on the island are cured of their ills. People seemingly don't age. Those that live there consider it to be paradise.

This season surely had some stuff in it that seemed to be lifted right out of Lost Horizons.
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The Reader
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quote:
Originally posted by Leonide:
Well the only current Lostie who would fit that description (that of having a teenaged son) would be Michael. So maybe he and Walt changed their names after returning to the real world?

Maybe. Michael would have had to do something to hide where he came from once he left the island. He couldn't tell people that he killed Anna-Lucia and Libby so he could leave.
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Elizabeth
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Sigh.
Whine alert!
+
+
+
+
Sometimes I feel no one hears a thing I say.
Shangri-la was a novel based on a legend myth of a place called Shambhala. "On the Road to Shambhala" played when Hurley drove the VW bus down the mountain. That episode was tossed of as a "fun" one, but I think it was a very important piece of the puzzle.

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Elizabeth
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http://www.shambhala.mn/Shambhala-Thangka/shambhala-thangka.html

" “As for the measurements and description of the Land of Shambhala,” as one Tibetan commentator notes, ”its appearance varies according to one’s own karma. For example, one and the same river will be seen by gods as nectar, by man as water, by hungry ghosts as pus and blood, and by some animals as a place to live in. Therefore, it is difficult to say specifically what anything is.” It is possible, however, to give a “description of Shambhala, established by the collective karma of sentient beings” and thus reported in written sources. This description of Shambhala is also depicted on thangkas of Shambhala with varying degrees of verisimilitude."

Everyone seems to experience the island based on their own past, their own karma, and the island has a way of balancing out the kharma. I do not think it is an accident that it was the "Dharma" group who started the whole thing(maybe!)"Dharma" means, very basically, the behavior one should have based on the word of Buddha. "The way," "the way to live."

Sorry to offend any Buddhists with the extreme synopsis.

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Strider
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Elizabeth, I remember reading your past posts about this and thought you were really onto something. I think it's obvious the creators are drawing on this myth when creating their story. The question is, is the use of the story akin to George Lucas drawing on mythology to create Star Wars, or is it a more literal connection? Either way, good find, I meant to mention it when I first read it.
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MEC
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I've been out of the loop for awhile now, so this may have already been discussed. If it has I'll go ahead and apologize.

In Locke's first flashback episode he uses a paper calculator, when the calculator starts typing it sounds alot like the black smoke noise. Any thoughts?

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The Reader
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From Lostpedia

quote:
The Monster makes a variety of different sounds that sound both mechanical and biological. Its mechanical sounds have been described as: whirring, clanking, chattering, ratcheting, roaring, mostly like a black-billed magpie, and noises similar to releasing air pressure or dot matrix printers. Rose remarked that the sounds were familiar to her, a sound that was commented by the directors to be similar to noises heard in Bronx, NY. The sound could be, or is very similar to the sound of a receipt being printing in a NYC Taxi Cab or possibly Subway rail cars.

In the voiceover commentary for the "The 23rd Psalm" on the Season Two DVD, producer Bryan Burk confirms that the Monster's sound effect is indeed the receipt printer from a NYC taxicab. This sound effect is heard in "Walkabout" right before the first commercial when Locke punches some numbers into a counting machine. The counting machine's printing sound is the same sound the Monster makes in "Exodus, Part 2" as it flies by Kate and Jack. This was reaffirmed in the May 21, 2007 podcast, but it was clarified that the mythology of the Monster is unrelated to the cabs; it is just a matter of sound effects.


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