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Author Topic: Lost Season 3 Discussion - Spoilers Galore!
Strider
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No one's said anything about my theory. I thought it was pretty cool.
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The Reader
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I think The Looking Glass is where the submarine docks. This is the place people really come to and leave the island, however it's done. It may be called The Looking Glass for two reasons: it is another communications outpost, and visitors' ideas about where they are going to and from are changed.

It was a big place, too, obviously meant to be permantly manned. And it wasn't flooded, so Ben is lying to everyone, even the people he trusts the most, including Juliet. There is something very big here.

The new location is a metaphor too. We, the viewers and fans will have our ideas about the Island and the show changed.

I don't trust Juliet. I think what she is doing is part of a bigger plan set by Ben. She may still betray him. She wants off the Island, and doesn't care how she leaves.

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Leonide
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Sorry, Strider. I didn't see the episode before last night's, so i can't comment with any real knowledge.

I'm a bad Lostie [Frown]

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Sterling
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Weird random thought:

Two people have destroyed stations: Desmond and Locke. Charlie, I suspect, is going to do the same (I think that switch does more than just turn the jamming signal off.)

Desmond has been shown to survive through incredibly unlikely circumstances; Locke may be about to do the same...

Other speculation: The people who intercepted Charlie at Looking Glass are Dharma remnants, possibly the only ones left on the island; the jamming signal was not started by Ben or the Others, but to prevent Ben's submarine from docking with them and finishing them off.

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The Reader
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I was thinking that about Charlie too. Maybe something similar to what happened to Desmond will happen to Charlie and Locke. A new "sense" maybe.

The stations on the island have a habit of being cataclysmically disabled. In addition to Swan and Flame having been exploded, Arrow appeared burned, and Hydra had been flooded before The Others somewhat fixed it.

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Evie3217
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The Reader, I think you're on to something. The title is obviously a reference to Alice in Wonderland - Through the Looking Glass. In that book she goes through a mirror into Wonderland. The looking glass is the portal. That would make sense. Plus, the submarine has to at least be relatively functional. Otherwise the people on the island would know that the submarine never moved when new people came on board. That wouldn't make sense.

I still think that Ben has way more power than anyone else. Strider, I think your post could be true. At least there's something weird going on between the line of sand around Jacob's house and the fact that he only started freaking out when Locke turned on the flashlight. Maybe he's being held prisoner, but I'm not sure that's the entire story. I think it has more to do with something spiritual that we don't understand about the island. But Ben certainly gets most of his power from Jacob and uses it to his own advantage. I'm almost certain that, no matter what Jacob said to Ben, it was NOT to move the raid up by a day. We already know that Ben disobeys orders because he tried to kill Locke. But seriously, how many action flicks do people need to watch in order to get that you don't just leave the good guy to die in the middle of a forest? You actually have to KILL the good guy. Geeze! That guy really needs to watch more action movies. That's what I think.

Edit to add: I think Bernard's going to bite it. It's the only reason I can think of to bring him back to the show with only 2 episodes left. Who are the other two shooting? Sayid and Jin? They can't die. Sayid's too awesome and there's way too much still left to learn about Jin. But in the preview they had the three of them lined up on the beach on their knees. One of them has to die, at least. So I'm predicting that Bernard dies. Possibly even Rose because she will have hid behind to be with her husband. That's what I think.

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Morbo
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Looking Glass is also a code name for the Airborne Nuclear Command Post(ABNCP)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_EC-135#Looking_Glass

Evie, I have an intuition that Bernard's time has come too. His wife begged him not to stay behind and shoot the dynamite? He's toast.

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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by Sterling:
Two people have destroyed stations: Desmond and Locke.

What did Desmond destroy? As far as I can tell, Locke has destroyed two stations. The Hatch and Mikhail's place. Not to mention the submarine. For a relatively ineffectual guy who needed Sawyer to do his stuff for him, Locke is honestly a menace. I like him a lot.
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The Pixiest
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Didn't desmond turn the key that destroyed the hatch? You know, after the computer got smashed...
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Xavier
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quote:
Didn't desmond turn the key that destroyed the hatch? You know, after the computer got smashed...
Sure, but it was Locke who let the computer run down to nothing, forcing Desmond to do that to save their lives.
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The Reader
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I also think Bernard is going to die, but I think he'll die as a hero, possibly protecting Rose, or Claire and Aaron.

Evie3217, I think Jacob may have told Ben to cool it, or he'll do something bad to Ben. This of course doesn't go very well with Ben. Assuming Ben has Jacob trapped, or if Jacob is imprisoned by his own volition, Ben can disobey Jacob, as you said, and make a last stand to both remove the castaways and take complete control of the island.

The "something bad to Ben" could be that Jacob no longer trusts Ben, and wants to remove him. After all, if Jacob really is trapped in that shack, then he would have had to had complete trust in Ben some time in the past in order to control the island. If he no longer trusts Ben, then he would need to let someone else know. That someone else is Locke, who could also be the new leadership desired by Jacob. Thus, Ben attempted to kill his rival to the throne.

In order to get Ben to bring Locke to the shack, Jacob would have had to lie to Ben about his motives. If Jacob finally told the truth to Ben when Ben brought Locke to the shack, then Ben would have been both betrayed and would have had his belief confirmed that Jacob should not be controlling the island. This is possibly why Jacob said "Help me" to Locke.

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Sterling
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It certainly looked like allowing the count to pass zero was heading towards something cataclysmic, but it was Desmond who actually turned the key that caused the hatch to implode, much like it was Locke who made the entry in the program that set off the C4.

I'm thinking of the people who pulled the trigger, so to speak.

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Evie3217
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It's possible that Bernard will die as a hero, but I don't think he's the only one who's going to die. I also have a sinking suspicion that Nikki and Paulo are going to turn up again, in some weird fashion. It would seem like the opportune time for them to reappear.

TheReader, your post kind of confuses me, although, from what I understand, I think you may be on to something. It's definitely likely that Jacob wanted Locke to take over for Ben, in charge of the others. And Lock can be a pretty powerful guy when he decides to be.

Personally, I think it was Desmond who actually pulled the trigger in the Hatch. But that's just what I think. But I do think that Desmond has a larger part to play in this matter than we all think. I'm really interested to see more about how he's connected to the island. I think he's somewhat like Locke, in that sense, although maybe to a smaller degree.

Also, what is your take on Richard Alpert (the Other from Ben's flashback)? Why hasn't he aged. I personally have no clue, but there must be a good story about that. And why have we not seen him before?

About next week's episode, I've heard that it's going to change the way we think about everything. According to Entertainment Weekly, the Lost creators have said, "only an extremely deranged individual would think of doing what we're doing." All I can say is, I'm excited.

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The Reader
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Sorry I confused you. I was writing by stream of consiousness. It doesn't explain the nature of Jacob though. Is he supernatural, or is there a natural occurence that keeps him hidden and trapped?

Even though Locke destroyed the computer, Desmond was the only one who could stop the anamoly with the failsafe, because, AFAIK, he was the only person alive who knew about the failsafe.

I have no idea what to think of Richard. Maybe his lack of aging is just a plothole (or he dyes his hair), though I doubt that.

"Only an extremely deranged individual would think of doing what we're doing." Maybe The Others and The Castaways join together and overthrow Jacob. Or maybe Naomi's rescue ship nukes the island. Lost's creators have a way of overstating the plot. But because this is a season finale, something big will happen.

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Elizabeth
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I have no idea what to think of Richard. Maybe his lack of aging is just a plothole (or he dyes his hair), though I doubt that."

Well, he seemed to come out of the jungle, and I thought he was a rep from a renegade group on the island who chose Ben to overthrow Dharma.I am orbably stating th obvious, as I have missed many pieces to this puzzle.

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Xaposert
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quote:
Or maybe Naomi's rescue ship nukes the island
This is exactly what I was thinking the other day - that immediately after Charlie reveals the island to the world, they destroy it. Or it is possible that the station already has a device capable of destroying the island, and the people who captured Charlie are going to set it off.

I think it is also possible that Jacob intends to destroy the island (possibly because he now disagrees with what Ben is doing to it), and has recently made that intention known to Ben. That is why he has manipulated things to bring our heroes to the island (so they will destroy it), and that is what he meant when he told Locke to "help him". And that would explain why Ben got so upset upon hearing that Jacob asked Locke to help him - and why they would have induced him to hurry up his plan to kill the Losties. Ben would have realized Jacob plans to have the Losties ruin everything, so he is rushing to eliminate them before they can.

Season 4 could then be entirely flashbacks to the characters who are currently unexplained - What happened to Michael? What are Jacob's origins? Does Jacob save Locke? How did Ben meet Jacob?

I would also still like to know the significance of the original Hatch. What was that electromagnetic explosion all about? What was the button? That was all mostly left unanswered after the last season. Will these questions just be dropped or will they eventually get answered? My suspicion is that the decision to not push the button has, one way or another, put into motion a series of events that is either bringing about the end of the island, the end of the world, or something else rather cataclismic.

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Xaposert
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Other random speculation: Maybe Jacob's backstory is that he is the last child to be conceived and born on the island. Like the other babies, he killed his mother in the process, but somehow he survived and was born. Perhaps every baby conceived on the island gets powers like Jacob's. That would explain why all the mothers' bodies reject their babies - because the babies become something beyond human. It would also explain...
(1) Why Jacob was drawn to Ben - because Ben too killed his mother by being born
(2) Why Ben seems so certain it is possible for a baby to be born on the island, even though it fails every time - because Jacob is proof that it can happen
(3) Why the Others are so intent on having such a baby - because the child would be something beyond human, like Jacob. It seems that the Others are interested in people with strange magical gifts. Maybe their goal is to create a community of superhumans, with powers like Jacob has.

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Mama Squirrel
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Wasn't Richard the one who did the project presentation to get Juliet to come to the island?
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Xavier
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quote:
Wasn't Richard the one who did the project presentation to get Juliet to come to the island?
As far as I remember, yes.
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Olivet
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Hmm. What if one of the people in the Looking Glass is Ben's childhood friend? I think they will probably get around to telling us what happened to her next season, anyway.


Oh, freaky aside:

Paulo was played by the same guy who played Xerxes .

O_O

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Mama Squirrel
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So, not only has Richard not aged, but he has been off the island at least once in the last 3 years (that is how long Juliet has been on the island, right?).
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Strider
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holy crap Olivet! that is freaky.
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The Reader
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quote:
Originally posted by Xaposert:
quote:
Or maybe Naomi's rescue ship nukes the island
This is exactly what I was thinking the other day - that immediately after Charlie reveals the island to the world, they destroy it. Or it is possible that the station already has a device capable of destroying the island, and the people who captured Charlie are going to set it off.

I think it is also possible that Jacob intends to destroy the island (possibly because he now disagrees with what Ben is doing to it), and has recently made that intention known to Ben. That is why he has manipulated things to bring our heroes to the island (so they will destroy it), and that is what he meant when he told Locke to "help him". And that would explain why Ben got so upset upon hearing that Jacob asked Locke to help him - and why they would have induced him to hurry up his plan to kill the Losties. Ben would have realized Jacob plans to have the Losties ruin everything, so he is rushing to eliminate them before they can.

Season 4 could then be entirely flashbacks to the characters who are currently unexplained - What happened to Michael? What are Jacob's origins? Does Jacob save Locke? How did Ben meet Jacob?

I would also still like to know the significance of the original Hatch. What was that electromagnetic explosion all about? What was the button? That was all mostly left unanswered after the last season. Will these questions just be dropped or will they eventually get answered? My suspicion is that the decision to not push the button has, one way or another, put into motion a series of events that is either bringing about the end of the island, the end of the world, or something else rather cataclismic.

Wow, I was just joking (there's nothing funnier than a nuclear explosion), but because you explain it, that seems just as possible.

However, what would Jacob gain by destroying the island? I don't believe he is a selfless Christ-like character who would die to prevent greater destruction. He seems more like a shrewd manager who is willing to let a few people die (like Juliet and Karl), except for himself of course, in order to protect the island.

Even is Ben is taking control of the island, Jacob had to be ruthless before that, in order to keep the place a secret. And I doubt The others want to die, but they probably don't know about the plan, if it exists.

If season 4 were entirely flashbacks, people would stop watching. Who cares about dead people on TV? And how can flashbacks be the entire content of the series for the next three seasons?

It's hard to imagine what could happen that we would consider the Lost creators seriously deranged. I wish Wednesday would get here.

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Morbo
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Umm, where would even an extraordinarily wealthy Penny get a nuke? It's one thing to finance a massive SAR mission, but a nuke is a whole other ballpark.

quote:
Originally posted by The Reader:
If season 4 were entirely flashbacks, people would stop watching. Who cares about dead people on TV? And how can flashbacks be the entire content of the series for the next three seasons?

It's hard to imagine what could happen that we would consider the Lost creators seriously deranged. I wish Wednesday would get here. [/QB]

They won't kill everybody or destroy the island, that doesn't make any sense. But the whole "deranged" comment is very intriguing, as so much of the plot has been so surreal and whacked already.
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Evie3217
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I also read in the same article (I wish I had a link to it) that the exec producers are going to cut back on the number of flashbacks in coming seasons. Personally, I think the nuke idea is completely ridiculous, for reasons that TheReader explained.

The idea about the superhuman is possible, I suppose, but I feel like there's more to this show than just creating another superman. To me, there's something bigger going on that we don't know about yet.

I do agree, however, that one of the people in the Looking Glass is going to be Annie, Ben's childhood sweetheart. There's no other reason why they would put a flashback about her in there if it wasn't going to come back later.

As for Richard, I think his lack of aging is one that isn't going to be explained for a long time. But he was the one who was at Juliet's interview, and he was the one who talked to young Ben in the jungle, and I believe he was the one who filmed Juliet's sister, cancer free, when Juliet asked for it. So I think it's something about Richard, and not necessarily the island, that makes him special. Because otherwise where are all the other people who helped Ben and Richard overthrow the Darhma Initiative? My only question is, why is Richard following Ben? Is it because Ben is "favored" by Jacob? It's obvious by the fact that Richard gave Locke Sawyer's file that he doesn't approve with how Ben is handling things. Why doesn't he take it into his own hands?

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Xaposert
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Well, the hints are that there is some twist that will change the way we look at the show, that it will leave us wondering how the show can go on next season, and that only a "derranged" person would think of it. Given these, how about these other possibilities:

-Locke meets Jacob again, and Jacob is revealed to be Jack. It turns out the whole island is in his head, and he is subconsciously making everything happen. Jacob is an alter ego. (But then again, that would really be just the old "it's all a dream" plot - not exactly something that's hard to guess.)

-The Losties are all saved at the end of the episode. But then what happens in the next seasons? Perhaps some twist makes them choose to go back to the island. Or perhaps only certain important characters are left behind. Or some choose not to leave. (Not exactly a "derranged" sort of twist though.)

-Something at the looking glass changes everything to an alternate reality, where their plane never crashed on the island in the first place. (Not sure how they could possibly explain that.)

-The people at the Looking Glass are members of the Dharma Initiative, which is still going on, unknown to the Others. It is revealed that, in fact, the Others are part of the Initiative's experiment - and so are the survivors of the plane crash. It has all been one big sociological experiment from the start.

-And, of course, it could always be the old "they are all dead" thing. Maybe everyone on the island is a ghost. Maybe the Others are too.

I suppose there are an endless number of twists you could dream up - ranging from the predictable to the bizarre.

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The Reader
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quote:
-The people at the Looking Glass are members of the Dharma Initiative, which is still going on, unknown to the Others. It is revealed that, in fact, the Others are part of the Initiative's experiment - and so are the survivors of the plane crash. It has all been one big sociological experiment from the start.
This is the most logical course the show could take. Dharma would have known that the Others were already on the island and created the initiative to study them and the island. It also fits with Annie still being around. She would have been the only person left alive, besides Ben. It's possible that other Dharma members joined the Others, but Annie would be the only person still working for Dharma.

Originally posted by Morbo:
quote:
Umm, where would even an extraordinarily wealthy Penny get a nuke? It's one thing to finance a massive SAR mission, but a nuke is a whole other ballpark.
Haven't you been watching 24? Nukes can fit inside suitcases now, and can be purchased five at a time!

I really was just making a completely non-serious comment before. I doubt the island is destroyed.

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Damien.m
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Ok well we know that Ben has told The Others that The Looking Glass is flooded. I can only think of two reasons for him to do this:

-He is afraid that someone will go down there and do what Charlie is about to do. Thus probably allowing transmissions to the outside world which Ben certainly doesnt want.

-The other reason is that Annie was stationed in The Looking Glass pre-purge. Ben wanted to keep her safe so he told the 'natives', that he now leads, that the station was flooded.

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TheHumanTarget
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quote:
Umm, where would even an extraordinarily wealthy Penny get a nuke?
For the sake of national security, I'm not going to post details on just how easy it is to get your hands on nuclear material in some of the former Soviet states. All it takes is money.
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Strider
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Did anyone watch the the Lost special last thursday? I think they're replaying it tonight. It sort of catches you up roughly on everyone's story so far and some of the other questions that have been brought up.

They also definitively answer some questions that people have been arguing about.

1)Desmond's late pushing of the button was the direct cause of the Losties plane crash

2)there's no alternate reality thing going on, the island exists in a particular physical location in present day earth reality

3)the magic box that can make anything you want appear was a metaphor

4)the black smoke WAS taking pictures of Juliette

5)the black smoke has a way of accessing information about the person it's seeing and judging them in some way. it can also access their memories and either cause them to see hallucinations, or itself show the hallucinations.

I think that was all the things I noticed. Nothing particularly new, but they did in essence squash some of the conversation that's still going back and forth on those things.

I think an important thing to remember for the last episode, is that Desmond's vision had charlie flipping a switch and then drowning. Sure he made it into the station alright and there's air, but Desmond's visions have all been pretty damn accurate, which makes me think this one still might come true. Or even if Charlie doesn't die, whatever Desmond saw will still most likely happen.

Questions I still want answered(not necessarily tonight though):

What's up with the 4 toed statue?
What happened with Rousseau's team and the sickness?
How are they transporting people to the island(i.e.-why do they have to be knocked out, and how did they get Locke's dad there)?
What was the purpose of the button really?
Who created the smoke monster and what exactly was /is it's purpose?
What the numbers are has sort of been answered, but only through the Lost experience, not on the show.
How much is Whidmore involved in what's going on?
How do the others get all their information?
Where did the natives come from? Are any of them still around besides Richard?
Who's the dead body with all the Dharma initiative people with a bullet hole in his head?
What was the purpose of the blast door map?
What are the whispering voices?
Who or what is Jacob?
Who is ultimately controlling all the events that are happening; the random connections of all the losties, bringing them all together on the island, etc..
What's the show's obession with time? The crazy clockwork orange room had the snippet you could here when you watched the scene backwards which said something along the lines of "only fools are enslaved by space and time". Walt talked backwards in Shannon's vision. Desmond now has visions of the future. Countless other characters have had solitary visions of either future events or visions of people telling them about future events.

That's all i can think of off the top of my head, but i'm sure there are more.

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Strider
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Rousseau and Alex are going to meet!
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David Bowles
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Holy crap! Charlie has finally become a badass, and he's gonna bite the dust! Dang it!
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Strider
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Yeah, that was pretty awesome of him.

When they asked him how he was going to stop the jamming without the code, I wanted him to go, "hmm...good question. I guess one of you give it to me."

Are there more commercials than usual or is it always like this? Seems like there's 5 minutes of show for every 3 of commercials.

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Strider
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that smile on Locke's face was perfect.
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Launchywiggin
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WWWAAAALLLLTTTT?
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David Bowles
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"You've got work to do." F-ing A!
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Strider
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I want a "White Trash Jack" action figure.
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David Bowles
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Me too, complete with cheap-ass sunglasses and crappy truck.
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Strider
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wow, my crazy theory from the other week may or may not actually be true(for different reasons though)!!

if Sayid, Bernard, and Jin ARE actually dead, i think i'm going to feel pretty gipped that I didn't get to see it.

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Strider
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hah, mother daughter bonding.
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Launchywiggin
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Sawyer has never been more badass.
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Strider
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i almost wet myself when Sayid took out that Other and I cheered when I saw Hurley.
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Strider
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I kind of liked Tom.
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Fitz
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This episode is killer. But is it just me, or have they not answered any questions yet? Well, they still have 15 minutes.
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stihl1
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Poor Charlie.
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Rappin' Ronnie Reagan
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Why didn't Charlie try to get out through the porthole?
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Launchywiggin
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*sniffle*

Why couldn't you swim out of the window!!!!

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Strider
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I just kept saying over and over, "swim out the window. swim out the window!!!"
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David Bowles
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Wow, that may have been the greatest episode of television I have ever seen.
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Puffy Treat
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My brain just broke.

The Island scenes were the flashbacks.

Oh, you clever devils.

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