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I didn't notice the 7th person, I don't know what that could be.
I don't think the Oceanic airline lady is in on any sort of deal to keep their island story to themselves. I think we're going to be in for some BIG surprised come Thursday night, but I just don't know what they are. Obviously.
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i have no idea who it is either...but i'm insanely curious. i mean the Losties were obviously talking freely right in front of whoever it is.
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Michael's a good guess, but I wonder why they wouldn't just include him in the Oceanic 7?
Did he want to stay anonymous that badly? I mean, this would give him a chance to not have to hide his identity.
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I like Jack and Kate. When Jack said, "You want to go for a walk" and Kate understood. She didn't make him explain. She didn't kvetch. She knew that he meant, "I'm going to try to help some of our friends, do you want to come," and she answered in the affirmative.
Throw-away moments like that are worth a thousand speeches about love and friendship.
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quote:Originally posted by Strider: Michael's a good guess, but I wonder why they wouldn't just include him in the Oceanic 7?
Did he want to stay anonymous that badly? I mean, this would give him a chance to not have to hide his identity.
I'm sure Kate wanted to stay anonymous pretty badly, but she apparently wasn't given that option. I wonder if the shady figure could be the "bad mojo" the co-pilot mentioned? Or is it just the fact that all of them were presumed dead and then found alive? Or something else we don't know about yet?
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I found a youtube clip that shows the scene. I didn't see the shadowy person at first, but I remembered that I still have the episode on my DVR, so I watched that because I can see it easier. The person is on the same side of the plane as Sun, Kate, Aaron, and Sayid, close to the front. The person can be viewed from 0:19 to 0:23 in the clip, to Decker's right.
Could that be Matthew Abaddon? AFAIK, none of the six met or saw him before the Island, but Hurley would have recognized him in Santa Rosa during his post-Island treatment.
It might be Richard Alpert, too. He would be the best person to "represent" the six. He has the ability and resources to impersonate someone to make sure the six keep their stories straight.
Edit: It can't be Abaddon. He doesn't know the truth. He visited Hurley to pry that out of him, and was unsuccessful.
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it's hard to see in that clip. I went to abc.com where it's much better quality, put it in full screen mode. Also, watch her as she walks to the back of the plane, she definitely looks over and smiles at whoever it is.
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Yeah, I noticed her do that too while watching the show the other night, Strider, although I never noticed the figure and can't see it in the clip The Reader linked too. Don't know if I feel like going back to abc.com to watch, I'll take your word for it that it's there!
*completely unrelated side note: I've been living in the South too long. I really wanted to write "I'll take all of y'all's word for it" but that just feels too much like a Yankee faking it. For most of my life, "your" seemed like a suitably self-explanatory modifier.
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Season Finale tomorrow!!!!! And I just read on the guide on my tv that Walt is back tonight!!!!! Will it be in a flash forward? I can't wait!!!!
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I work tomorrow morning which is nice- gives me something to do other than sit there and be like... Lost finale on tonight...Lost finale on tonight.
I called my roommate from school last Thursday to talk about the season finale coming on then. Then he told me the Grey's Anatomy finale was coming on. I almost wept.
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I know spoilers are welcome, but should we post spoilers here if the episode hasn't aired yet? I wouldn't, personally.
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Spoilers posted before the airing of an episode are worthy of punishment by the Smoke Monster itself.
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agreed. Also, I'd beware of any website that has anything to do with Lost in even the slightest way. There might be spoilers hidden in innocent looking places.
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oh, about the guy in the plane. upon closer inspection i think it might just be a crew member. when they all get off the plane there's a guy in uniform standing at the bay and he's not one of two pilots. i assume that's the person she smiles at, unless there is yet another person on that plane we didn't see.
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OK, I'm watching the repeat from last weeks episode right now. Its been a while since I've been able to watch live. I've been watching via i-tunes.
Anyway, there are already some very important difference between the i-tunes version and the repeat they are showing tonight.
In the scene the press conference with the Ocean 6, Jack reveals the names of the 3 people who allegedly died on the Island, Boone, Libby and Charlie.
Sayid was also asked if he would be going to Iraq which isn't in the i-tunes version from last week.
Were these in last weeks episode and just missing from the itunes version or did it get added tonight.
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Before tonight "The Constant" was my all time favorite episode. This one at least ties, as far as I'm concerned. I was on the edge of my seat for lots of it, and it had some really great moments.
Locke: You killed everyone on the freighter! Ben: So?
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It was a comercial before the last set of scenes, my girlfriend noticed it and wrote it down. It's some kind of dharma thingy.
also, great episode.... and jin better be alive, maybe he was moved by the island before temporal wave explosion and more nonsensicle statments.
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So what do you suppose is the significance of John Locke (philosopher credited with the idea of natural rights) becoming Jeremy Bentham (philospher note for Utilitarianism and rejection of natural rights).
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*embarrassed* Oh, is that who that was? I knew when the camera panned over the casket there would be a big reveal, but I didn't recognize him at all.
I think I'll just slink back into the woodwork, now.
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Rabbit, my guess would be that originally in the show John Locke was more of a free spirit, meaning that he didnt believe in fate or destiny. Then later in the show he has accepted that he has a destiny on the island, or a fate or a purpose that he must fulfill no matter what.
John Locke=Natural rights=free to do whatever Jeremy Bentham=Rejection of natural rights/utilitarianism=accepting his role even though he may not want to.
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Hmm...the wiki on Jeremy Bentham doesn't seem to agree with Rabbit and TK's summation of Bentham's philosophy:
quote:Bentham's ambition in life was to create a "Pannomion", a complete Utilitarian code of law. Bentham not only proposed many legal and social reforms, but also expounded an underlying moral principle on which they should be based. This philosophy, utilitarianism, argued that the right act or policy was that which would cause "the greatest happiness of the greatest number" — a phrase of which he is generally, though erroneously, regarded as the author — though he later dropped the second qualification and embraced what he called "the greatest happiness principle," often referred to as the principle of utility.
posted
If there is significance to choosing "Jeremy Bentham" as his name, I'd bet it is because he has now taken the leadership role from Ben and has to do things for "the greater good". Whereas old school Locke might have been unwilling to kill someone like when he was asked to kill his father (they have a natural right to life), the new Locke is probably willing to kill someone for the greater good of the island's safety. The latter approach is more consistent with Bentham's utilitarian philosophy.
Ben was extremely utilitarian - he was willing to do any seemingly immoral thing if he thought it would achieve the greater good of protecting the island and the others.
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I swear, I'd shamelessly follow this crazy roller coaster ride of a show anywhere. I love it.
They give Hurley and Ben the most perfect lines. I loved it when Sawyer asked Hurley what they were up to or what they were talking about and he replied "leader stuff".
I'm trying to remember what Ben said that cracked me up when he was in the Orchid with John. My daughter thinks that Ben would be perfect in a thriller, his face just creeps her out.
Did you see the two alternate endings? I'm just confused on how they would have used those two in the coffin. I really can't see why Kate would flip out about going to their funerals. She would have definitely went to Sawyer's, and I see no reason for her to not go to Desmond's.
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quote:Originally posted by Tammy: Did you see the two alternate endings? I'm just confused on how they would have used those two in the coffin. I really can't see why Kate would flip out about going to their funerals. She would have definitely went to Sawyer's, and I see no reason for her to not go to Desmond's.
I have not, do you have a link to it?
quote:Originally posted by Tresopax: Ben was extremely utilitarian - he was willing to do any seemingly immoral thing if he thought it would achieve the greater good of protecting the island and the others.
I'd say Ben is more of an Ethical Egoist, he killed everyone one the freighter, just so he could get revenge. He tried to "claim" Juliet, sending the man she was having an affair with to death in the process. There are probably more examples, but those two jump to mind right away.
I'm glad that Keamy is dead, he killed too many good characters.
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I'm not going to lie- if I saw the man who killed my daughter mocking that incident, I don't know if I would react any differently than Ben did.
*And I'm not even a parent
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quote:Originally posted by Shawshank: I'm not going to lie- if I saw the man who killed my daughter mocking that incident, I don't know if I would react any differently than Ben did.
*And I'm not even a parent
Would you then reply in apathy at the prospect of everyone dieing on the boat?
Not to mention she wasn't even his daughter, he stole her from the French woman.
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quote: Not to mention she wasn't even his daughter, he stole her from the French woman.
You raise someone for 16 years as your own daughter, they are your daughter. Not saying Ben was right in kidnapping her, but he basically adopted her through vastly immoral methods.
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I bet that's how Keamy was able to kill her. If she'd been Ben's biological child, he wouldn't have been able to. But it'd been so long that Ben just assumed that she'd be as safe as he was.
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I thought the exact same thing about the bomb. I didn't know about the explosion bit though, in my mind I think it would have been cooler to see the explosion, then hear it.
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The name "Jeremy Bentham" rang a bell with me, and I finally figured out why. I've got an ancient "Ripley's Believe It Or Not" compilation that has an article about Bentham.
When Bentham died, he left his fortune to University College Hospital, with the condition that his corpse be preserved and dressed up, and always in attendance at board meetings.
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: Hmm...the wiki on Jeremy Bentham doesn't seem to agree with Rabbit and TK's summation of Bentham's philosophy:
quote:Bentham's ambition in life was to create a "Pannomion", a complete Utilitarian code of law. Bentham not only proposed many legal and social reforms, but also expounded an underlying moral principle on which they should be based. This philosophy, utilitarianism, argued that the right act or policy was that which would cause "the greatest happiness of the greatest number" — a phrase of which he is generally, though erroneously, regarded as the author — though he later dropped the second qualification and embraced what he called "the greatest happiness principle," often referred to as the principle of utility.
I said he was noted for utilitarianism which seems to agree perfectly. The wikipedia entry on Bentham also says directly that his opposition to natural rights is one of the things he is best known for.
Since all I said about him was that he was noted for contributions to Utilitarian ethics and rejection of the idea of natural rights I'm really hard pressed to see what it is that doesn't seem to agree with the wiki.
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I thought the exact same thing about the bomb. I didn't know about the explosion bit though, in my mind I think it would have been cooler to see the explosion, then hear it.
I think given the relatively short distance between the plane and the helicopter, the difference in the time it took the light and sound from the explosion to reach the helicopter would have been imperceptible.
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I think this is the first time that a current timelime has gone directly to a flashforward. Ben turned the Island's steering wheel, and was then sent to Tunisia.
I wonder how the storytelling will change. What were once flash-forwards are now the current time. Season Five might open with the Oceanic Six, Ben, and Locke's body returning, and then the journey between the funeral and the return being told in flashbacks, with flash-forwards revealing the fates of people.
Faraday had some people in the zodiac raft. They were off the Island when it moved. They may or may not have been taken in the temporal bubble with the Island. If not, then they are lost at sea.
Lapidus and Desmond were also on the Island right before the move. Are they also included in the group that Ben says has to return?
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quote:Faraday had some people in the zodiac raft. They were off the Island when it moved. They may or may not have been taken in the temporal bubble with the Island. If not, then they are lost at sea.
The zodiac could not be seen from the helicopter after the island moved so I'm assuming it went with the island.
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Yeah, the helicopter and the raft were fairly close to each other. Faraday and the rest probably would have seen the helicopter go in and attempt a rescue.
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It is still possible Desomond will have to return since he played a key role on the island for so long. Lapidus wasn't an island inhabitant though so I'm not sure if he'll have to return.
I want to know how Locke gets off the island and how his corpse ends up in CA. And how did Jack know Locke's new identity to recognize the funeral notice?
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My guess is that season 5 focus is mostly on the O6 and all of them realizing they have to go back as a group. Along with that is what happened on the island immediately after the events following the S4 finale.
My guess is that the S5 finale will end with the O6 + plus Bentham getting back onto the island, and we'll see a new level of devastation to the island. And then John Locke will be revived back to life.
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quote:And how did Jack know Locke's new identity to recognize the funeral notice?
I think that one has already been answered. He (Locke/Bentham) had visited Jack, Hurley, Kate (and possibly Sayid).
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