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Author Topic: Lost Season 6
Geraine
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quote:
Originally posted by Raymond Arnold:
As good a name as Esau is, I have to say that "The Locke-ness Monster" is the best one I've heard so far.

Thank you [Smile]

I liked this last episode. I was trying to compare the names of the people in relation to the numbers as well. Then I started replacing the numbers in the show with the names of the people they represent.

I don't know if there is something to it, probably nothing at all. Does anyone know of instances where the numbers are used?

For Example:

Oceanic Flight 815 = Oceanic Flight Reyes Ford (Or Hugo James)

One thing that I did think about was the Hatch. Other than Desmond, I believe every one of the people on that list typed in the code at some point, and no one else. As far as I remember, Kate never did. Desmond may have been a candidate in the past but perhaps not now.

Did anyone see any repeating numbers that had been crossed off?

I also think that the Kwon on the list probably represents Jin. All the rest of the candidates are men, so I just figure the last would keep consistent with the rest of the list.


I think it would be interesting if we saw Ben's name as well as Penny's father there as well. They were the leaders of the others and maybe they were being "groomed" to take Jacob's place? Is this the reason Ben and Penny's father also followed rules to not kill each other?

Was Ben following Esau and Penny's father following Jacob the entire time? Or vice versa?

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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by Geraine:
I don't know if there is something to it, probably nothing at all. Does anyone know of instances where the numbers are used?

The only one I can think of is that Jack was sitting in row 23 on the flight.
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The Rabbit
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Neither Jin or Sun ever push the hatch button, at least not that I can recall.

If Jin is the Kwon on the list then all the listies share the following qualities.

1. Male
2. Came on flight 815
3. Traveled back in time.

Unless "male" is important, I can't think of any obvious reasons why Kate isn't on the list.

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theCrowsWife
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:
Originally posted by Geraine:
I don't know if there is something to it, probably nothing at all. Does anyone know of instances where the numbers are used?

The only one I can think of is that Jack was sitting in row 23 on the flight.
There were a lot, but I think most, if not all, of them were in the first Hurley episode. For example, there was a whole line of girls in uniforms that each had the number, in sequence.

--Mel

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The Rabbit
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quote:
Originally posted by theCrowsWife:
quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:
Originally posted by Geraine:
I don't know if there is something to it, probably nothing at all. Does anyone know of instances where the numbers are used?

The only one I can think of is that Jack was sitting in row 23 on the flight.
There were a lot, but I think most, if not all, of them were in the first Hurley episode. For example, there was a whole line of girls in uniforms that each had the number, in sequence.

--Mel

Mel, I think you misunderstood the question. We all know that there were many many instances where the numbers showed up. The question is whether there been instances prior to the most recent episode in which the numbers were associated with the "candidates". Aside from the one Lisa mentioned, I haven't found any.
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theCrowsWife
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Oh, gotcha. I can't think of any others, either.

--Mel

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Geraine
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quote:
Originally posted by The Rabbit:
Neither Jin or Sun ever push the hatch button, at least not that I can recall.

If Jin is the Kwon on the list then all the listies share the following qualities.

1. Male
2. Came on flight 815
3. Traveled back in time.

Unless "male" is important, I can't think of any obvious reasons why Kate isn't on the list.

I guess it isn't clear yet if it can be a woman or only a man. The way it was put, it gave you the impression that there was someone before Jacob, and Jacob was the chosen candidate long ago.

I also think Esau is underestimating Sawyer. Esau tells Sawyer that Jacob must have visited him at some point in his life. Which means Jacob could leave the island. However, Jacob also came back to the island for a purpose. He was protecting it, and Esau tells Sawyer there is nothing special about the island.

I believe Jacob is a sort of warden of the island, and Esau is the prisoner. Though Jacob is dead the responsibilities fall to the next warden. Only the warden can release Esau so he can get off of the island, hence the attempt to con Sawyer.

How that would tie to the alt time line I do not know.

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Strider
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no talk yet?

I haven't had time yet to write up any thoughts, but I thought last night's episode was fantastic!

Also, last night was the 108th episode of Lost. Fitting.

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Lisa
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It was amazing. The timelines are clearly starting to bleed through even more. Alt-Jack's confusion over the scar in his side, for one thing. And Alt-Dogen! Cool. I wonder who David Shepard's mother is.

I can't wait to see Alt-Rosseau as like a museum docent or something.

Who thinks Claire winds up killing Kate?

It was a bummer that there was no Sawyer this ep, but it was still excellent. I just don't get why Jack doesn't tell Sayid what Dogen said. I know, I know, if people actually communicated, there'd be no drama.

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Geraine
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I loved this episode. I haven't been a fan of Jack since midway through season 2. After last night's episode however I think I may have changed my mind.

I thought this season was supposed to answer questions though! Who is Jack's son's mother? He is too old to be his ex wife's (Julie Bowen was the actress, I forgot the character's name).

Also, I am glad they brought Claire back, but I am a little let down at the prospect she may be evil, although she might just be a little crazy since she lost Aaron. The Locke-ness monster is really making me mad, but that may be because he is in control right now, obviously has a plan, and we don't know exactly what it is.

I did think the mirrors in the lighthouse were cool. My question with these though....Do they see into the same timeline? If Jack had kept watching, would he have seen the current or the alt time line ? And what does Jacob have in mind for Jack?

I did have a thought last night though. Maybe the time line is reset at the end of the show, and we find out the alt time lines are actually what happened to them? All of them so far (Kate, Locke, and Jack) have all ended on a fairly positive note. Even though bad things happen to them it seems to turn out alright.

Would you be let down if it turns out that these are the "endings" for each character?

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Hume
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Geraine, that has been my thought since the season premiere. The only evidence we have for it at this point is that Jack's neck appeared to be freshly wounded in the alternate reality Oceanic flight, and it seemed to me that he didn't remember being injuried.

Its possible that he was injuried right before the alternate reality was created, and that injury carried over to the new timeline.

I'm kind of like the idea of an epilogue that takes place throughout the season. It seems like a good way of wrapping up the character's story lines without having an episode or two explaining how things turned out.

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Uprooted
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UnDead Jacob is starting to annoy me. I'd be smashing mirrors if I were Jack, too. Although I did like the bit with Hurley and "I'm a candidate."

Claire was creepy as could be: "My friend" with that insane little smile. I will be sad if she stays crazy, evil, possessed or whatever she is by the end of the show.

So I can't remember if Jacob said that someone or something very bad was going to the temple. I take it he was referring to Locke-ness. Hope he didn't mean Claire. Is it just Sayid and Miles left at the temple? We know Kate, Hurley, Jack and Sawyer are all gone . . . Jin is on his way back. Wonder what will happen?

As usual, I have no theories about the timeline and all that. I'm just happy if I can hold onto the major plot threads from episode to episode.

I do think that the show is and always has been about redemption and that most of the character resolutions will reflect that by the end of the show.

Oh, and is Jack's son Fox's son in real life? Don't know anything about the actor in real life, but that kid sure looks like him.

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docmagik
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I agree that the alt timeline stories might be the endings.

Locke finds peace with his paralysis, Jack has a son and learns to get along with him, Claire has her baby and decides to keep it--It's absolutely possible these are the happy endings for each character, and just like the flash-forwards of seasons yore, we're just seeing the lead up to them.

Also, someone suggested to me something that makes total sense--in the ALT timeline, the timeline doesn't have to diverge in 1977. Since the the ALT timeline, the plane never crashed, that means NONE of the events of the time-jumps happened either. Which means the timeline could have skewed as early as the earliest time-jump was.

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JonnyNotSoBravo
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The timeline could have skewed as early as Jacob's earliest interference in people's lives, too.

The actor who plays Jack's son is Dylan Minnette. Look him up on IMDB.

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Tresopax
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The alternate timeline must be important to the main timeline in some way. I was thinking the alt timeline is going to end up being one of two things:

1) Along the lines as what's been mentioned, the new reality is the end result of Jacob's plan. If that's true then perhaps the whole plan was designed to not just to create a new timeline, but also teach the main characters things that they then subconsciously carry over into the new timeline, which alter the world for the better.

or

2) The characters from the alternate reality are the people, refered to in last night's episode, that Jacob is trying to bring to the original reality (which would explain why he can't just come out and simply give the name of who he's trying to bring.) Perhaps in the same way that people could (just mentally or also physically) jump through time, they could also jump through alternate realities on the island.

It all depends on which reality is the true goal - the one with the island, or the one without.

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Strider
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quote:
Also, someone suggested to me something that makes total sense--in the ALT timeline, the timeline doesn't have to diverge in 1977. Since the the ALT timeline, the plane never crashed, that means NONE of the events of the time-jumps happened either. Which means the timeline could have skewed as early as the earliest time-jump was.
It's things like this that make the entire idea of the altTime so ridiculous. Yes, that's true, but for the plane to not crash, the hatch needs to be blown up in 1977, and without any time jumping there is no one to blow it up.

This leads me to believe one of two things.

A)The writers got themselves stuck trying to tell too convoluted a story, and we're just going to have to deal with the repercussions.

B) The whole nuke is a red herring. Whatever happened, DID happen. And this altTime we are watching was in no way caused by the nuke detonation in Dharma time. As others have mentioned, it could be that the on Island events we are watching this season actually lead up to this alternate reality we've been shown.

As docmagik mentions, we've seen these characters learning valuable life lessons in altTime that they never learned on Island.

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The Rabbit
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quote:
Originally posted by Strider:
quote:
Also, someone suggested to me something that makes total sense--in the ALT timeline, the timeline doesn't have to diverge in 1977. Since the the ALT timeline, the plane never crashed, that means NONE of the events of the time-jumps happened either. Which means the timeline could have skewed as early as the earliest time-jump was.
It's things like this that make the entire idea of the altTime so ridiculous.
No more so than any other story involving time travel. Time travel stories ALWAYS contain irresolvable paradoxes, even those that go with the "what ever happened happened" theory. Its the nature of the beast. To enjoy any time travel story, you have to accept that there will be paradoxes.
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The Rabbit
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quote:
The whole nuke is a red herring. Whatever happened, DID happen.
You keep saying that. I don't think that means what you think it means. The very existence of an ALT time line proves you are wrong. It doesn't matter whether or not the nuke lead to the altTime or some future event leads to the altTime line. The point is that there is more than one alternative. "Whatever happened, happened" is wrong.

quote:
And this altTime we are watching was in no way caused by the nuke detonation in Dharma time.
I'd like to point out that we still have no idea whether or not the nuke detonated. Juliette was hitting the nuke with a rock just before the Losties got transported to the future. We have no evidence that the nuke ever detonated. In fact, the evidence suggests the opposite. Juliette was still lying at the bottom of the drill hole. The drill hole would have been blasted to oblivian anything remaining would have been vitrified.

quote:
As others have mentioned, it could be that the on Island events we are watching this season actually lead up to this alternate reality we've been shown.
Definitely a possibility, but not the only one. Maybe the altTime is what happens if the bomb detonated and the main time line is what happens if the bomb never detonated. It will be interesting to see how they work it out. I try to keep myself from getting to invested in any particular theory. Once you do that, you start to bend everything to make it fit your theory. I prefer just to enjoy the ride hoping the writers still have some good twists up their sleeve to make it interesting.
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Strider
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quote:
You keep saying that. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Actually, I'm pretty sure that since my pre season speculations, that's the first time I've mentioned any such thing. And I only did so after a slew of other posters presented the same idea. I think you were just waiting for me to post because you enjoy contradicting me!
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The Rabbit
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quote:
Originally posted by Strider:
quote:
You keep saying that. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Actually, I'm pretty sure that since my pre season speculations, that's the first time I've mentioned any such thing. And I only did so after a slew of other posters presented the same idea. I think you were just waiting for me to post because you enjoy contradicting me!
No, I was just inspired by the Princess Bride thread.
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Strider
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It's okay, I'm letting it slide because Princess Bride references are ALWAYS apt.
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The Rabbit
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quote:
Originally posted by Strider:
It's okay, I'm letting it slide because Princess Bride references are ALWAYS apt.

Exactly!
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Uprooted
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As you wish.
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LargeTuna
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Is it wrong that I watch this show live on a tuesday and then again on a thurday? I would think I should get bored but I don't. I even liked the Lightouse more the second time when I wasn't so sure about it on the first go.

anyone else?

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docmagik
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LargTuna, I think most episodes of LOST are very rewatchable.

I know a lot of people have fantasies of someday having DVDs that tell each character's story in chronological order from start to finish.

I actually like the idea of watching episodes in any order, like putting the CD on "random" and seeing what track comes up next, and seeing what interesting connections happen between random episodes when you put them next to each other.

So yeah. Watching the new episodes twice in one week makes total sense to me. But I'm an odd duck, so I don't know how much that means to you.

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LargeTuna
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I was one of those people that quit near the end of season one, then discovered they had the DVD's at my library and was caught up for season 5. A couple of times I watched 5 episodes in a row it got intense with the amount of things I learned.
I was planning on getting the DVD's but I think it would be better if I got them in blue ray so I can watch them in the future. I just need to get a blue ray player and HDTV *grin* I'll get the full set in a few years, hopefully the prices will go down by then. I doubt they'll be able to have something that interactive because that means putting all of the data in one place for someone to upload it to the internet.

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Sterling
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So here's what I'm thinking.

The island- anomalies and all- is a prison for the black smoke monster. It may not always have been such, but that's its primary reason for being right now.

The guardian, previously Jacob, is in charge of maintaining that prison so the black smoke monster doesn't escape.

The black smoke monster can't harm the guardian. Thus "Locke" used Ben Linus to do the job for him.

The guardian's death has created a limited window of opportunity for the BSM to do things like infect Sayid through the wading pool, bully Jacob's followers, and try to use the "candidates" as avenues to escape the island before one of them is chosen to take Jacob's place. The degree to which the BSM must avoid interfering with/harming the "candidates" remains somewhat nebulous, but the possibility that it infected Sayid suggests that Jacob's death has given it opportunities it didn't have before.

I think I'm forseeing a Claire/Sayid/Sawyer vs. Jack/Kate/Hurley/Jin (if he manages not to get himself killed) face-off, with Sawyer as the big wildcard.

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LargeTuna
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If Jin dies before he meets up with Sun I will not be happy.

I think that's a cool possibility Sterling

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Tresopax
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I'm thinking that both Jacob and the smoke monster are the guardians of the island, and that they were both originally normal human beings (my guess is the kid that appears to Locke is actually Jacob when he was younger) who recieved the powers they have now from the island in order to protect the island, and were bound by a set of rules in the process. I think the smoke monster no longer wants the job, hence he wants to go "home". And then I'm not sure what Jacob's plan ultimately is, but it seems to be more than just to protect the island - he seems to be aiming for some greater good.
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The Rabbit
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I just thought of a possible explanation for the two time lines.

What if the white flash at the end of last season was the time shift not the bomb blast. The time shift isn't instantaneous, it began a fraction of an instant before the nuclear blast but didn't complete until the bomb detonates. The bomb blast resets the time line but because our losties were being transported through time when the bomb detonated, they split. One set of losties transfers into the original time line where the bomb never detonated. The other set is now on the alt time line. The split is why the alt timeline Losties have some residual memory of the original timeline.

Probably wrong, but its a thought.

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docmagik
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Rabbit, that's kind of like a theory that I've heard that goes like this:

There's a line Faraday says somewhere where he talks about throwing a really huge rock in a river. He says, when you throw the rock in, it might dam it up, stop it. That's what Jack was trying to do--dam up the timeline, stop things from continuing on after that point.

But the other thing that could happen is that as the river fills up, it runs around the rock on both sides, making two new rivers, working their way around the rock. They'd run separate for a while, but then they'd join up back together again on the other side in the same riverbed as before.

So what we're seeing happening is the part where the two rivers run around the rock, and eventually we'll see the two rivers run together again.

When I first heard this, they said that Faraday said this in a deleted scene from Season 5. Since then, I've heard he said it in a real scene that aired in Season 5. Not sure which is right, or if either is--I'm only up to around the end of season 2 in my re-watching of the show.

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The Rabbit
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One thing, I thought it was interesting that Jack and Hurley ended up back at the Cave with skeletons of Adam and Eve.

I remember reading some time back, the producers saying something about the skeletons being important and that they were in the first season as evidence that the writers knew where they were going with this from the beginning. The scene this last episode seemed to be to remind us, in case (like Jack) we'd forgotten this little piece.

Its also worth noting that Jack found a black rock on one skeleton and a white rock on the other. That theme was important in the first season and seems to be resurfacing now and connected to Jacob and Esau.

For some reasonthis triggered another connection in my mind. Rose is black and Bernard is white and that this may not be an unimportant coincidence.

Also, I agree that Lockeness Monster is a more clever name than Esau, but Esau is so much shorter than any of the alternatives that I'm going to keep using for convenience alone.

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Strider
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Rabbit, earlier in this thread I talked about Rose and Bernard being Adam and Eve. They were one of my speculations for some time as to the identity of Adam and Eve, but I thought their appearance in last year's finale sealed the deal. Here's the text of what I wrote:

quote:
Thereís one tangent Iíd like to discuss thatís I think related to Jacob, and itís about Rose and Bernard. Their scene in The Incident was really integral to the plot as well. They seem to have realized and lived out what Jacob was speaking of at the beginning of the episode. They escaped the cycle that Esau talks about. The Island seems to be a metaphor for heaven/paradise/nirvana/the garden of eden. Esau thinks humans aren't worthy of it because they are by nature corrupt/sinful/evil and always destroy and attempt to control. Jacob has faith they are better than this. And Rose and Bernard are living proof of this fact. They are at peace in the garden. I don't think there can be any doubt any more that Rose and Bernard are Adam & Eve. In light of this, I'm very interested in Bernard's invitation to Juliet to stay and have tea. Being that not only is she the only one not to be visited by Jacob, but she is also the person who makes the decision to set off the bomb. She is the last, and thus most important, chain in that link.

I agree with what Tres said about about Jacob and Esau and the Island. If the Island were SOLELY a prison for Esau, I would be really let down. With the appearance of the boy(who some of us think is Jacob) and learning definitively that Esau used to be human(if he can be believed) I think Jacob and Esau's origin's will be rooted in a more normal beginning than originally supposed. And further, that Jacob may not have been the first protector of the Island. That Jacob himself inherited this job, possibly from a previous guardian who is the person who gave Jacob the list of 360 names needed to find his successor.

I also had another thought recently in regards to Jacob's cabin. So we now know that it wasn't Jacob who had been using the cabin, but Esau. We know this because when Locke went there with Ben and everything started going crazy, we saw a puff of black smoke rocking in the chair. This along with the fact that Christian Shepard was using it. So the idea is that the Smoke Monster was trapped within the cabin by the circle of ash surrounding it. Now, I have two alternate ideas about this.

1) Esau's soul or essence was trapped in the cabin, but he was free to roam around the Island as the smoke monster, sort of like a chicken with his head cut off, no real intelligence, only able to do its duties. When the ash was broken, they were able to reunite and he was now able to fully take the form of a human and use his full powers.

2) Esau's entrapment in the cabin meant he couldn't interact in all his various ways, except for the smoke monster, in which form he was free to roam anywhere.

Minor variations, but I think they're both relatively likely.

Anyway, none of this was my point. The thought I had was that I think it was Claire who broke the circle of ash, freeing Esau. Now that we know about Esau's nature, and Christian Shepard's connection to all of this, I'm assuming she did this under his direction, as he was probably not able to interact with the ash himself.

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JonnyNotSoBravo
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quote:
Originally posted by Sterling:
The guardian's death has created a limited window of opportunity for the BSM to do things like infect Sayid through the wading pool, bully Jacob's followers, and try to use the "candidates" as avenues to escape the island before one of them is chosen to take Jacob's place. The degree to which the BSM must avoid interfering with/harming the "candidates" remains somewhat nebulous, but the possibility that it infected Sayid suggests that Jacob's death has given it opportunities it didn't have before.

The BSM has already infected Claire, and, IMO, the people who came with Rousseau. So I'm wondering how it infects people. Did the BSM chase Rousseau's people to the spring and then they drank and got infected? Or did it infect them by their presence in the temple? Why hasn't it infected candidates before Sayid? Perhaps because they never got to the spring until now. Why didn't it infect Ben (who probably got healed by the spring)?
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Strider
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I think it was only able to infiltrate the spring after Jacob's death. But you do bring up interesting points about the nature of infection. Rousseau's team interacted with smokey under the temple and soon were changed that way. Sayid was infected by the spring. Claire...we don't know? Was it just proximity?

Is there a cure for the infection? Is Sayid screwed? Can we get Claire back? In general Claire doesn't seem "infected" as much as looney from being alone for so long and being lied to by Esau and the visage of Christian Shepard.

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The Rabbit
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Interesting theory.

Just one question, when did you mean when you said "we know about Esau's nature and Christian Shephards connection to all of this this?

i guess we know that Christian Shephard is connected to Esau and he's connected to Claire's disappearance. But I don't think we have any clear idea what his connection is or how it works.

Your theory about Esau being trapped in the cabin has some problems because we know the smoke monster and Christian Shephard are able to move freely about the island and much of that movement has clear purpose. Christian is instrumental in getting both Ben and John off the island and therefore series of events that allow him to take John's physical form and kill Jacob.
Presuming that all the ghost's we've seen on the island are Esau, that would also include Horace, so there is even more evidence that of purposeful action. Still, I think you are on to something even if it isn't perfect.

Have all the ghost's we've seen on the island been of people whose corpses were on the island? If so I wonder what made Locke's corpse different. I'm thinking it may be that this was the first corpse of someone who was a candidate.

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docmagik
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Okay, this a really outlandish idea, but what if MIB wasn't always the smoke monster?

Maybe his intial power was just that he could take the form of people who had died on the island.

What if, like the dead people on the island, the smoke monster was a separate creature, and MIB was only able to take the appearance of after it was killed?

I think the recent statment that MIB can't take other forms now discounts this, since it can still be a smoke monster but not a person. It would be a stretch that it could only take the form of one dead human but still be able to take the form of the one dead smoke monster.

But it's a fun idea, I think, to at least toss out there, total hogwash or not.

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The Rabbit
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quote:
Originally posted by Strider:
I think it was only able to infiltrate the spring after Jacob's death. But you do bring up interesting points about the nature of infection. Rousseau's team interacted with smokey under the temple and soon were changed that way. Sayid was infected by the spring. Claire...we don't know? Was it just proximity?

Is there a cure for the infection? Is Sayid screwed? Can we get Claire back? In general Claire doesn't seem "infected" as much as looney from being alone for so long and being lied to by Esau and the visage of Christian Shepard.

Perhaps it was Rousseau and not her team that were infected. Its true that they were trying to kill her, but the others wanted Jack to kill Sayid as well.

Do you suppose Dogen wanted Jack to give Sayid the pill because the "rules" prevent him from killing Sayid? If so, then maybe they also had to get Rouseau's team to try to kill her. After they were killed, they had to get Ben to do it, suggesting he wasn't (yet) fully one of the others either.

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The Rabbit
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One more connection.


Smoke, Ashes and Fire.

I don't know what it means, but the connection is interesting.

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docmagik
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Yeah, it is. Good thinking. Have to mull that over.
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Strider
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Rabbit, I guess I sort of breezed over some important things there in an attempt to get to my thought about Claire being the one who broke the ash. So let me back up, and do a more detailed account of what we know about Jacob's cabin.

Okay...so, last year's season finale significantly changed our perspective on what has been going on on the Island. Though I don't know that any of us thought that Jacob and the smoke monster were one and the same, I don't think any of us thought that they were enemies. What does this mean for us?

Here's what we know about the cabin. We know that Horace built the cabin(though the fact that Locke is told this in a vision makes it suspect, the fact that he finds the plans to it in Horace's jumpsuit lends credence to it's veracity). We know that Jacob at some point either resided in the cabin, or led Illana to believe that he did, as she and her people go straight there when looking for Jacob.

In our first introduction to Jacob's cabin we saw a couple important things. There was a circle of ash surrounding the cabin, which we now know is able to create a barrier that the smoke monster can't cross. On the surface this would imply Jacob had layed it there to protect him inside the cabin, but

1) given the rules does jacob really need protection from smokey?

2) When things started to go crazy in the cabin we saw a puff of black smoke rocking back and forth in the chair.

Given what we know now(the function of the ash and Esau's relationship to the black smoke), we have to assume that Esau was actually trapped inside of the cabin. But we also know that Esau, as the smoke monster was also freely roaming the Island at this same time. So how do we explain this? I offered two suggestions.

1) Because Esau's "essence" is trapped in the cabin he is only able to roam the Island as the smoke monster. This allows him to roam the island as smokey and due his protection duties, as well as present himself as the visage of people that people on the Island know. Both in the scene with Yemi and Eko, Ben and Alex, and Juliet and Kate, the smoke monster very much seemed to be interfacing with people's memories and accessing important information. But it seems that during all this time Esau was not able to take a real human form like we saw him during the 1800s and like he now has with Locke.

2) Similar to the first idea, but in this one, Esau's "essence" is so thoroughly trapped within the cabin that the smoke monster sort of functions like a body without a brain.

We know that at some point the circle of ash was broken. If this is a significant piece of information, what exactly is significant about it? My speculation is that this act either reunited Esau's essence with the smoke monster, or in general, freed Esau from his bondage. In answer to your question about what made Locke's corpse different Rabbit, I think it has more to do with the status of Esau being free, than because Locke was a candidate. If you look at the list of Candidate names on lostpedia, it indicates there have been other candidates who have died on the Island, which doesn't invalidate your theory, but begs the question of why Esau didn't use any of their bodies.

The reason I think it is Claire that did this(to the ash) is because of her communications with Christian Shepard, who we know has been lying to her to get her to do what he(or Esau) wants. Since we know that the smoke monster has been known to present itself in the visage of people(this was made explicit when it presented itself to Eko as Yemi), and given Esau's opposition to Jacob, we now have to question every vision we've seen on the Island and what purpose that vision was serving. If we're assuming that Christian Shepard is connected to Esau somehow(the fact that he's been lying to Claire about Aaron, and the fact that he was instrumental in bringing about Locke's death would support this), then it makes sense to me that he told Claire to break the circle of ash. I'm assuming he couldn't do this either because if his visage is being used by Esau then he can't get near the barrier, or because if he's ghost like he can't interact with matter in that way(his unwillingness to help Locke up after he's injured at the bottom of the well back this up, but his holding of Aaron in his hands contradicts it(though he is related to Aaron, which may mean something)).

It's not perfect, and there's a whole host of questions that get brought up. Is Christian Shepard really Christian Shepard or just an apparition? Though we initially thought we had to question all the Island induced visions, now that we've seen Esau witness his own vision, it seems to imply visions can happen in other ways. Hurley's communications with dead losties off Island would seem to back this up too, since I'd like to think that those were not Smokey induced visions(Jacob's dialog in the cab would seem to back that up).

Okay, that's way longer than I meant to write! Sorry.

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JonnyNotSoBravo
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quote:
Originally posted by The Rabbit:
Interesting theory.


Your theory about Esau being trapped in the cabin has some problems because we know the smoke monster and Christian Shephard are able to move freely about the island and much of that movement has clear purpose. Christian is instrumental in getting both Ben and John off the island and therefore series of events that allow him to take John's physical form and kill Jacob.
Presuming that all the ghost's we've seen on the island are Esau, that would also include Horace, so there is even more evidence that of purposeful action. Still, I think you are on to something even if it isn't perfect.

Have all the ghost's we've seen on the island been of people whose corpses were on the island? If so I wonder what made Locke's corpse different. I'm thinking it may be that this was the first corpse of someone who was a candidate.

1) The BSM cannot cross ash (as we saw when the BSM killed Illana's crew). Therefore it cannot have been out roaming around and trapped in the cabin in the same general time frame.

2) We've seen Walt as a "ghost" and he never had a corpse on the island.

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Strider
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Johnny, depends on the nature of Esau. If part of him, his essence, can be separated from the black smoke, then his soul so to speak could be trapped within the cabin, and his body could be free to roam around the rest of the Island. But neither of them can cross the ash to reunite themselves and become whole.

Yes, there are a lot of assumptions going on here, but we know the smoke monster travels freely around the Island, and we saw the black smoke inside the cabin as well. This either means something like my speculation above is correct, or that the circle of ash was ALREADY broken when Locke and Ben first went there. I'm not sure how likely I find that, but it's certainly a possibility I guess.

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Bella Bee
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quote:
Is it wrong that I watch this show live on a tuesday and then again on a thurday?

anyone else?

Me. I watch the new episode of 'Lost' in English at the weekend when I have time. Then I watch the same episode of 'Perdidos' in Spanish on Tuesday when it's on TV here.
It's the best language study aide ever.
(Speaking of which - almost all the promo stuff they showed here for this season was with Hugo and Richard, because the actors can speak some Spanish).

Did anyone think that little David might be Jack and Juliet's? The ages work, and he has very stunning blue eyes...

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daventor
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Yeah, I read that theory of David as Juliet's son on another website. It sounds pretty credible to me; I could definitely see them taking that route. The other interesting question (which was posed by the same person I read earlier who put for the Juliet/Jack/David theory) would be if Juliet's current boyfriend in alt-universe is Sawyer.

I really wonder if Daniel Farraday's going to pop up again this season. He and Locke had the crappiest life-and-death-stories in regular Lost-verse; it'd be nice to see him having some good times.

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Lisa
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http://www.docarzt.com/lost/lost-recaps/through-a-glass-darkly-6-05-lighthouse/

If you page way down (search the term sunhat to go directly there), there's a picture of a mirror on the wall, with sunhats hung all around it. Followed by a photo of Juliet's house in Otherton, with the same sort of setup. So maybe Juliet really is David's mother.

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solo
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I've been thinking about the possibility that Jacob is a creature very similar to MIB. Perhaps he can also take the smoke monster form and possibly have the same limitations as the MIB. Is there a reason that there has been no speculation in this direction? I can't think of anything from the show that discounts it out of hand. This could explain why the smoke monster has been roaming free all along while the black smoke was in the cabin.

I'm not sold on this theory but I won't be surprised if it happens either.

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LargeTuna
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I have an Idea of why we have seen some people who seem like they would have died in the bomb blast in 1977 in the sideways X universe. It's possible that because the plane never crashed, our losties never made it to the island, and nobody was able to tell the other to put the H bomb under ground in the 1950's when one of the losties time traveled (I forget which). What if the bomb went off in the 1950's and the island was submerged under water then?

I can't find any flaws that can prove so far that this didn't happen that way. I'm not convinced, but I'm liking it.

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Strider
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We saw that New Otherton(The Barracks) was built and submerged under water in altTime. This means Dharma came to the Island and built their barracks. Which means the Island was around till at least the 70s.
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LargeTuna
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Do we know exactly what year Dharma came to the island?

I don't think we have any confirmation of how long New Otherton has actually been standing. It would be a stretch for it to at least mostly have been built by the 1950's, but is it impossible?

The massive Dharma migration in the 70's could have been the second wave or something.

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