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Happy premiere day, everyone! I assume there are people watching it online over at scifi.com, but I need the anticipation of tonight to get me through class today.
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Dang it! Dang it! Dang it! Dang it! Dang it! Dang it! Dang it! Dang it! Dang it! Dang it! I missed the online Ep! Blast, I thought that they would be playing it all day!
However, as I think about it, why would they? Shoot. I guess I'll have to remember that for next week. From the looks of the website, this is going to be a regular thing.
Anyways, happy premire day everyone! It's been awhile.
Posts: 263 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Well I'm certainly excited. This is actually going to be the first season that I'll watch as it is running, since I didn't get into the show until the break between season 3 and 4.
Posts: 2437 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver: Happy premire day!
Let us hope the Human race survives the first 20 minutes.
Now that would be the ultimate mindjob. Boom! Now with that out of the way, we'd like to present you with nineteen episodes of dancing kittens.
Posts: 2437 | Registered: Apr 2005
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I have a discussion question point to get things started here. What does everyone think the catalyst was for the 4 cylons (of the final 5) to start hearing the music and realize that they were cylons?
I personally assumed that it had to do with their proximity to earth. Any other thoughts?
Also, if it WAS their proximity to earth that set it off, it would follow that they were around (in existance) at the time the 13th colony went to earth. At the very least they knew somehow where it was.
Posts: 375 | Registered: Mar 2005
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As for the Final Five, I like the theory of the Cycle of Time/Eternal Return....that the Five are the last survivors of a Kobolian version of the Cylons. The Five are the last Lords of Kobol. They found the current Cylons after the first war and made them turn into copies of their dead friends: to complete the 12 Olympians.
The 12 Cylon Modles are based off of the Lords of Kobol.
Now...the Final Five are either over 4000 years old or maybe they bred with Humans and their genes are carried inside us (us as in the Colonial Fleet).
I think that Man and Cylon will interbreed to create the "true" Human race, thus the prophecies of the doom of Humanity will come to pass as the strain of Humans from the 12 Worlds will cease to be.
Posts: 4953 | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver: I think it was first tiggered by Starbucks death at the gas giant.
Or the same thing that triggered the halucinations that led Starbuck to go into the gas giant.
edited to add quote of text I was responding to.
quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver: As for the Final Five, I like the theory of the Cycle of Time/Eternal Return....that the Five are the last survivors of a Kobolian version of the Cylons. The Five are the last Lords of Kobol. They found the current Cylons after the first war and made them turn into copies of their dead friends: to complete the 12 Olympians.
The 12 Cylon Modles are based off of the Lords of Kobol.
Now...the Final Five are either over 4000 years old or maybe they bred with Humans and their genes are carried inside us (us as in the Colonial Fleet).
I think that Man and Cylon will interbreed to create the "true" Human race, thus the prophecies of the doom of Humanity will come to pass as the strain of Humans from the 12 Worlds will cease to be.
Where does the Cylon Monotheism come from then?
I do agree that the "final five" likely predated the Cylons from the 12 colonies, and were responsible for getting the cylons to transition into the human forms, but it seems likely that they were also responsible for the Cylon religion as well.
Posts: 2437 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Where does the Cylon Monotheism come from then?
I do agree that the "final five" likely predated the Cylons from the 12 colonies, and were responsible for getting the cylons to transition into the human forms, but it seems likely that they were also responsible for the Cylon religion as well.
Yes. Good point. Another favorite theory of mine is that the Cylon God is the fallen 13th Lord of Kobol. Remember in first season Priestess Elosha said that life was great on Kobol till one of the Gods wanted to be worshiped above all the others thus the war on Kobol began...to which the Six in Baltar's head replied in anger "blasphamy, there never any other gods only the One"
And we have the scrolls that Laura has quoted about the Temple of Five dedicated to the five priests who worshiped the One whoes name cannot be spoken.
Just had another idea. What if the fifth Cylon is actually on Earth, and will be revealed when they get there? Obviously just a guess on what could happen, but I like it.
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And why would the Cylons break the peace treaty anyway? It wasn't because of Adama no matter what he thinks, because the Cylons had agents in the Colonies at least a year before that spy mission.
I think the Cylon God prompted them into breaking the treaty to finish the job he had failed to finish on Kobol.
And are the eminations inside Baltar, Caprica Six, and now Starbuck the same being or agents of some higher thing?
Are the 4 on Galactica really Cylons or are they just being used/controled?
And what about the Oracle who said to #3 that she hears stuff not only from the 12 Gods but from the One she worships? That's messed up.
Posts: 4953 | Registered: Jan 2004
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I'm pretty sure the emanations inside Baltar and Caprica 6 are the same being. Not sure about Starbuck. Probably is, but don't know.
Posts: 375 | Registered: Mar 2005
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I'll have to catch the rerun when I get home from work later tonight.
I read a review on TV Guide that says the first episode gets the season off to a BANG and that fans will love it.
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My pet theory is that the five originate from Earth, and that the whole Cylon-Human war was engineered by Earth in order to reduce or eliminate potential competition.
Assuming that the four we were shown actually are part of the final five, we know that they predate the creation of the other human models, and even perhaps the original Cylon war. We also know that the entire switch between mechanical and human-like models happened in a very short timespan (probably at least 30 years), which seems unlikely without outside intervention. They also managed to convert completely to a religion that is very different from any colonial religion in that timespan. Not only that, but it is a religion that has ties to Earth (I think that it was mentioned somewhere that there were members of the 13th tribe that were followers of the rogue god, but I can't recall the reference now). When you add in the fact that the show has tied the five to five prophets that have religious significance to Earth, there does seem to be a strong connection between the five and Earth. Also, the four we've seen so far had false memories which were not all that different from the ones held by Cylon sleeper agents such as Boomer, although the manner in which the truth was revealed was far different.
That said, I don't actually expect this to be the direction the series takes, but it would be an interesting one that seems to fit what has been revealed on the show so far.
Posts: 2437 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Where does the Cylon Monotheism come from then?
I do agree that the "final five" likely predated the Cylons from the 12 colonies, and were responsible for getting the cylons to transition into the human forms, but it seems likely that they were also responsible for the Cylon religion as well.
Yes. Good point. Another favorite theory of mine is that the Cylon God is the fallen 13th Lord of Kobol. Remember in first season Priestess Elosha said that life was great on Kobol till one of the Gods wanted to be worshiped above all the others thus the war on Kobol began...to which the Six in Baltar's head replied in anger "blasphamy, there never any other gods only the One"
If Baltar turns out to be the 12th Cylon, I would assume that he was the one who wanted to be worshipped. It would suit his ego.
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I doubt that Baltar, Starbuck, or Laura are going to be the Fifth. Too obvious for one.
The only obvious person, and the only reason I say this is because of what Leoben said in first season (not that he's the most trustworthy guy of course), Adama. If anyone is a Zeus/Jupiter character it's him. But I don't think they'd pick him to be the Fifth...might be too cheezy.
Of course it could be anyone at all. Or no one!
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Should we say the Fifth or the 12th when talking about the last modle to be shown? I think the show is going with 12th. (not that it really matters of course) Posts: 4953 | Registered: Jan 2004
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I'm up to four possibilities. I like Kara's mother the best. But given what the hybrid said in Razor, it could be Baltar or Cain:
quote:"Soon there will be four, glorious in awakening, struggling with the knowledge of their true selves. The pain of revelation bringing new clarity and in the midst of confusion, he will find her. Enemies brought together by impossible longing. Enemies now joined as one. The way forward at once unthinkable, yet inevitable. And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering."
The redemption thing brings both Baltar and Cain to mind. The "enemies joined as one" could be Anders' and Kara's marriage. Ellen Tigh is also a possibility, but I kind of doubt it.
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Well dang, that was a bit of a cliffhanger. Great episode, but it definitely leaves a ton of things unanswered. I wonder what exactly happened with Anders. It's clear that some sort of communication happened. From what I could gather in the preview, the other Cylons know that the final five are in the fleet, and it looks like the Cavils are messing with the raiders in order to suppress that information.
Posts: 2437 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Yeah, that Anders thing made me jump as well - did his eye really glow? Did he receive programming? Was it a recognition check (which I take to be most likely)? The preview for next week should answer some of these questions, but it's pretty cool that Cavil's taking such an active role in concealing the final five's presence - I wonder why. And that new version of Six - she's going to seriously frak some stuff up, it appears.
And Kara! "If I found out you were a Cylon, I'd put a bullet between your eyes." And then she pistol-whips Anders and goes off to shoot the President.
Any bets as to the Eye of Jupiter being some sort of portal? A sort of death-renewal type of thing?
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The Anders/Raider confrontation was stunningly awesome.
Thanks for the quick recap.
Are we going to assume this is a spoilery thread? SPOILER:
Frankly I thought Lee and Bill's chumminess was a bit unbelievable. After what they said to each other, and really it had been like a day since that happened, and then he's offering his spot back to him? I'm really curious as to what will happen with their relationship now that Lee is taking part in the government, but I wonder how high up he could possibly be placed, and for that matter, how he'll really play a big role in the ongoing plot outside his usual military capacity. I think Lee was pretty justified in his actions, and I think that it was the Admiral's attack on Lee that caused him to really push his attack on Roslin int he last episode of the third season, and I think the Admiral knew it in the end. It's going to be interesting to see how they progress. I wonder how Roslin will react to having Lee in the government.
I miss the days when he was her champion.
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I'm half-tempted to just forgo the SPOILER notification, at this rate...
When Lee mentioned that there were "feelers" from the government already, it does make one wonder - whose camp will he be in? Will the unholy alliance of Tom Zarek/Lee Adama finally come to fruition? Will Team Apollo win the day? Posts: 3932 | Registered: Sep 1999
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I can't imagine he'd go that route. He's far too principled. It was his principles that have guided his actions over the last couple episodes. I think more than most characters in the show, Lee is most conflicted in the struggle to do what is right rather than what he wants We saw this when he was cheating on Dee with Kara, and we saw it again when he was deciding what to do during the Baltar trial.
I think in the end he'll do his best to get in Roslin's good graces, and maybe she'll forgive him, but I doubt it. I can't imagine what post he'll take on.
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I miss the days when she was worthy of having him as her champion. She's gotten brutally... I can't think of the word I'm looking for, brutally something... well just brutal really... and arrogant as hell.
Editted to add: AMAZING episode by the way. Though that cliffhanger was painful I want more! Want!
quote:Originally posted by Alcon: I miss the days when she was worthy of having him as her champion. She's gotten brutally... I can't think of the word I'm looking for, brutally something... well just brutal really... and arrogant as hell.
Yeah, but it isn't totally unbelievable given the circumstances. They've all come a long, long way since those first couple days after the attack.
Posts: 2437 | Registered: Apr 2005
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I've been thinking more about it, and in one of the promos you see Lee saluting Admiral Adama in his civilian dress, and then you see him in his suit with hand in the air and a hand on what looks like a book. He's clearly taking some sort of oath.
Is it possible that his new job is as Vice President? Maybe Zarek will get ousted somehow? The promo was something like "Lee Adams, leader or legend?" Which makes me think whatever his new post is, it's going to have to be something of huge importance. At first I thought they'd make him some sort of Judge, but I can't see that. He'll have to get a leadership position of some sort. Any speculation?
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From what I had seen in promos and a couple spoilers I was scared out of my mind that most of the Fleet was going to get wiped out and the Human race would be reduced to 10 thousand or less.
But thank the Gods. Though alot of the big ships took a pounding. How many died? 600 on the Pryxis, at least that many on the huge wheel ship, a big hole blown in the Astral Queen, and many more damaged. A thousand or two? More?
Posts: 4953 | Registered: Jan 2004
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Ugh, I hate this... I can't watch the episode on the Sci-fi website. Says to turn off my popup blockers...did that and turned off my Norton virus protection too and still won't work. Grrr...
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Psst... the ship with the ring is the Space Park, not the Astral Queen. The Queen's got that flat round part at the front. Posts: 3932 | Registered: Sep 1999
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I know. The Astral Queen got a missle to the round part at the front. The Space Park got half of its ring blown away.
Posts: 4953 | Registered: Jan 2004
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During Tigh's hallucination/dream scene, did anyone else think that he really HAD killed Adama? I mean, before we found out that, yes, it was a hallucination.
Because Nathan and I both felt like Ron Moore would dare do such a thing if it fit into his story.
However, we were quite happy to find out that it was a hallucination.
Also, for those who couldn't catch it on TV or the scifi website, you can find it legally here. However, it's still really irritating that BSG isn't available on iTunes anymore.
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I was completely uncertain as to whether he had really killed Adama or not. I mean, I was thinking, "OK, gotta be his imagination!" but I wasn't sure.
What I'm interested in is this: was that hallucination Tigh's prompting to carry out his 'sleeper-Cylon' programming (if he has any), but he resisted it? Or was it just the horrified imaginings of a guy whose world is all but ruined?
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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My impression was that it was just horrified imaginings. If it had been an actual signal, I think we would have seen more signs of mental resistance from him- remember that, way back in "Water," Boomer resisted a Cylon command (before she even realized what she was), but it took a lot out of her.
The Anders/ Raider faceoff was one of the best scenes BSG's ever done. Chills.
Kara telling Anders that she'd put a bullet between his eyes if she found out he was a Cylon, also chills.
I cracked up when Tigh noted that Baltar's Cylon detector was a piece of crap- he of all people would know!
I can't wait to see where they go with the four new Cylons... or, as I've seen them referred to elsewhere, the "Frakked Four." Posts: 1321 | Registered: Sep 1999
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I also found it interesting that Athena really has no clue about the Frakked Four.
As for Roslin, Tigh did say last season that sometimes, he thinks she has icewater in her veins.
Lately, it's apparent it's more icewater than anything else. However, I really hope Kara doesn't kill Roslin. Though it WAS cool to see Kara kick the collective asses of those marines.
Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
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Starbuck whaling on those marines was pretty cool, but very much a stretch.
I mean, if you're a marine guarding the previously-thought dead mysteriously returned almost-certainly-a-Cylon, what're you gonna do if she so much as twitches? Put one in her torso somewhere. Especially with the way she started talking just before she made her move, too.
Roslin has progressively gotten pretty hardcore. Stealing elections, wanting a show-trial, keeping Hera hidden even after Boomer proves herself, like, eighteen times. She stops in funny places, though, like Tigh remarked: suicide bombing=unacceptable, stealing elections=necessary.
Lee's morality and ethics do seem to run deeper than Roslin's do, which is what makes it less surprising that he's no longer her champion.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Actually, Baltar's cylon detector worked just fine, until he broke it. It correctly identified Boomer as a cylon. Ellen definately wasn't a cylon, but would it have identified Tigh as a Cylon?
I don't think so. I definately think that the five predate the current cylons. I like the notion that the created the other 7 in reference to the original 7 seven that ruled on Kobol. Now's here's a question, were there only ever 12 or were there 13? Correct me if I'm wrong, it sounds like there were 13, the one would could not be named.
Numbers matter in BSG. 12 lords of Kobol, 13 tribes, one Lord unnamed. To me, it sounds like there are 6 remaining cylons, not just 5. 5 of the original 12 and the one rogue. The one who desired to be worshipped above all others.
Okay, so to me, Baltar would be the likely candidate to be the 13th, if that were the case, because they are already starting to set him up as a religious figure with a group of followers worshipping the one true god. Head six could be long dormant programming activated by the destruction of the colonies. He could also just be the final cylon, that would make sense too. However I am liking the thought of a 13th, especially if we are entertaining the theory that 5 are the displaced Lords of Kobol.
As for the other five, they definately pre-date the current cylons. The current 7 were "programmed" not to think about them. By who? Not themselves, maybe the original hybrid that was destroyed in Razor, but I don't think so. Couple of clues about the pre-date thing.
1. Flashback episode with Adama and Tigh that was not long after the end of the war and way before BSG, was, for me, way too soon for the cylons to be to that level of advance in their humans models to have sleeper agents in place.
2. Tyrol mother was an oracle and his father was a priest. He said his father had pictures or drawing of the temple of five. How? Was Tyrol born in the colonies or on Earth? Listen closely to what he says in the temple of five about his parents. It rang to me as improbable that a priest from the colonies would have that intimate of knowledge of the temple. Besides that, who wrote the scroll of Pythia? How on earth did the colonies get the information about how the 13th colony got to Earth? Someone brought it back?
As for Kara, to me she is either the fifth cylon, or a clone, made from the ovary that was removed from her on Caprica. Cloning is very likely. That technology is already used by the cylons to make all those copies of themselves. So why wouldn't they be able to clone at human, especially if they have prime genetic material to use, like an ovary.
Really, I know that it is obvious, but I am leaning toward she is the fifth. However, I like better the idea that she is the child of the fifth. Inherited humanity and imperfection from her father, the ability to download from her mother. So she's both, a clone and the fifth cylon. The heavy raider she followed into the storm was there as a broadcast point so that she could downloand into her new body.
So how are the current models of cylons involved in all this? Not sure.
Well that's enough to chew on for now.
Posts: 263 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:As for Kara, to me she is either the fifth cylon, or a clone, made from the ovary that was removed from her on Caprica. Cloning is very likely. That technology is already used by the cylons to make all those copies of themselves. So why wouldn't they be able to clone at human, especially if they have prime genetic material to use, like an ovary.
Cloning is one thing, but all her memories? Memories aren't included in genes, you'd have to either copy her memories from her original brain or she'd have to have some sort of advanced genetic memory. Cloning would be a stretch for me. It seems most obvious that she'd be the last cylon, but, maybe TOO obvious? It certainly makes the most sense.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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It's possible there's some kind of wormhole or space time distortion in the storm that she entered. The explosion Lee saw wasn't her, it was the raider. She definitely DID get pictures of Earth some how in her gun camera. And her clock only read 6 hours. That reeks of some sort of relativity or space time distortion.
Editted to add: And the gas giant with rings? Jupiter or Saturn both have rings and storms like the one where Kara was 'killed'. Some sort of transport network maybe? Only she didn't remember being in it, cause while you're in it there's nothing to remember. Space-time distortion... It could definitely work. They could definitely go the way of Star Trek and Stargate and pull some fairly accurate whacked out physics and she could be neither clone nor cylon and in fact telling the whole truth.
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