Whoa....Carrie be careful what you wish for. RDM said that the fifth cylon was not pictured in the "Last Supper" picture. Doc Cottle is a prominent cast member and he was not pictured. And at this point, I think that I would expect the fifth cylon to be someone out of the blue like Cottle.
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FYI, I have descriptions for the first 11 episodes of the season. Click here if you want to read them. While they don't really answer any questions necessarily, they definately show us where they are going with this season. Follow the link with caution and please try not to share what you learn with the rest of those who are trying to remain unspoiled.
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Whoa....Carrie be careful what you wish for. RDM said that the fifth cylon was not pictured in the "Last Supper" picture. Doc Cottle is a prominent cast member and he was not pictured. And at this point, I think that I would expect the fifth cylon to be someone out of the blue like Cottle.
Cottle's actually been my pick for final Cylon for ages - mostly because of the imagery of a basestar full of Cottle clones drinking and smoking and being cynical old men to each other. Posts: 3932 | Registered: Sep 1999
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Well, looking at the info Reddwarf provided it seems it answers my questions on the Cylon home fleet...appears there is a central resurrection hub out there. Sweet!
Must. not. look. at. more. spoilers!
[ April 09, 2008, 03:41 AM: Message edited by: Telperion the Silver ]
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posted
But the hybrid said the 12th Cylon was looking for redemption. What has Cottle done?
I've moved the late Admiral Cain up to second place in the 12th Cylon contest. Right now, I've got:
Mama Thrace Admiral Cain Ellen Tigh
I'll put Doc Cottle in at #4 because I honestly can't think of anyone else who could be on the list.
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posted
It's almost a little too convenient, though, that the final five Cylons all happen to be in the fleet. I hope the writers have a good explanation for that, like maybe the reason that BSG survived the attacks in the first place was that Tigh and Galen and Roslin (shortly before the attacks, anyways) were all on board before the attacks started and their presence was known, or sensed, or something. Also, I know Moore said that no one in that picture was a Cylon, but didn't he also state that Kara was definitely dead? I'm not sure we can actually trust anything the man says about the show.
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Or Starbuck is dead and this Kara is a new Cylon model out of the tank with a memory upload. The apparently brand new Viper with no flight data and 6 hours on the clock is suspicious enough. Her memory loss of what happened in the 6 hours/2 months is even more twitchy.
I don't trust RSM's claim that Twelve isn't in that picture. Just because.
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quote:Originally posted by Goody Scrivener: I don't trust RSM's claim that Twelve isn't in that picture. Just because.
I don't trust it because it's fairly plain that quite a bit of the story is being made up as it goes along. I mean, nobody had even thought of having the four newly revealed cylons be cylons until well after sesaon 3 was underway. I can believe that, as RSM is conceiving of things at the moment, 12 isn't in the picture. But that doesn't mean much.
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quote:Originally posted by BryanP: It's almost a little too convenient, though, that the final five Cylons all happen to be in the fleet. I hope the writers have a good explanation for that, like maybe the reason that BSG survived the attacks in the first place was that Tigh and Galen and Roslin (shortly before the attacks, anyways) were all on board before the attacks started and their presence was known, or sensed, or something.
People have to realize that the Final Five are NOT really Cylons...not the classic enemy Cylon they've been fighting at any rate. The so called Final Five are not connected to the collective Cylon Consensus, society, or military. The FF do not have multiple copies. The FF age. The FF are indistinguisable from Humans, the Cylon detector (which did work) didn't noticed them and not even the normal Cylons recognized/felt them till the Music.
Whether or not the writers intended from the beginning the current situation, this is what they have to work with to remain consistant.
And we can't forget the Beings of Light from the original series episodes "War of the Gods" I & II...they did the same thing to a couple principle characters...took them in, to a place between life and death, inserted the coordinates to Earth in their head, and sent them on their way with little memory of where they had been....just a feeling on where Earth was. RDM and staff are using this as a base for the current show... and I'm very excited to see how the Beings of Light (and Iblis) tie into the Final Five, Lords of Kobol, and the Cylon God.
[ April 09, 2008, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: Telperion the Silver ]
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posted
Aside from Boomer, who was actually tested by Baltar's detector? It seems like they didn't get very far, but Tigh should've been near the top of the list.
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quote:People have to realize that the Final Five are NOT really Cylons...not the classic enemy Cylon they've been fighting at any rate. The so called Final Five are not connected to the collective Cylon Consensus, society, or military. The FF do not have multiple copies.
quote:Originally posted by BryanP: It's almost a little too convenient, though, that the final five Cylons all happen to be in the fleet. I hope the writers have a good explanation for that, like maybe the reason that BSG survived the attacks in the first place was that Tigh and Galen and Roslin (shortly before the attacks, anyways) were all on board before the attacks started and their presence was known, or sensed, or something. Also, I know Moore said that no one in that picture was a Cylon, but didn't he also state that Kara was definitely dead? I'm not sure we can actually trust anything the man says about the show.
I agree. It was convienent, but it's television....so what? Much of what happens in life are happy accidents, sometimes even to the point of straining credulity. For example, one time while serving my LDS mission in Flordia, starting on my birthday no less, I won five free 20 oz bottles of Mountain in a row. I paid for the first and the cap told me that I had won a free one. Under the cap of the bottle I got for free, same thing. I did not have to pay for a bottle of Mtn Dew until I reached my seventh bottle. I obtained each bottle from a different convienence store in completely different parts of Miami. Calculate the odds on that one for a minute. Either someone was following me around making sure I would get free Dew because it was my birthday or, more likely, I just had a streak of good luck.
It's convienent yes, but they all got lucky, right along with Adama, Roslin, Kara, Lee, and all of the other human survivors that were in the fleet at the time the colonies were attacked and that got off of New Caprica alive. After all, stranger things have happened in real life.
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posted
I need to do a full re-watch, so I don't remember this. Did Baltar's detector actually read a positive on Boomer or did HeadSix tell him that she was one?
Also, didn't Boomer have pictures of herself as a child with her parents? I know she had memories of being a child, because I remember her rebelling against the revelation that she was a skinjob.
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Baltar's detector did indeed show that Boomer was a Cylon. Head Six suggested that she was probably better off not knowing, so Baltar lied to her about the results.
I assume that the photos of her as a child, like her memories, were fake.
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quote:Originally posted by BryanP: It's almost a little too convenient, though, that the final five Cylons all happen to be in the fleet. I hope the writers have a good explanation for that....
I agree. It was convienent, but it's television....so what? Much of what happens in life are happy accidents, sometimes even to the point of straining credulity.
It's convienent yes, but they all got lucky, right along with Adama, Roslin, Kara, Lee, and all of the other human survivors that were in the fleet at the time the colonies were attacked and that got off of New Caprica alive. After all, stranger things have happened in real life.
Excusing the implausibility of a plot point with with "it's just television" doesn't really fly for me. In good fiction, it doesn't matter if an event is possible, or if stranger things have happened in real life. If events don't have the feel of plausibility to them within the context of the universe that the storyteller has created, they destroy the reader or viewer's suspension of disbelief. I've seen too much good storytelling take place in the medium of television (especially lately--the last 5 years or so have seen a lot of really good programming, I think) to be willing to accept the excuse for poor storytelling that you're putting forth.
Now, that said, I think it would be fairly easy for the writers of the show to make this particular plot point work. Bryan's suggestion would definitely do the trick, but there are other ways it could be done too.
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quote:Originally posted by BryanP: It's almost a little too convenient, though, that the final five Cylons all happen to be in the fleet. I hope the writers have a good explanation for that, like maybe the reason that BSG survived the attacks in the first place was that Tigh and Galen and Roslin (shortly before the attacks, anyways) were all on board before the attacks started and their presence was known, or sensed, or something.
People have to realize that the Final Five are NOT really Cylons...not the classic enemy Cylon they've been fighting at any rate. The so called Final Five are not connected to the collective Cylon Consensus, society, or military. The FF do not have multiple copies. The FF age. The FF are indistinguisable from Humans, the Cylon detector (which did work) didn't noticed them and not even the normal Cylons recognized/felt them till the Music.
You're assuming the Standard Seven don't age?
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posted
That's what I assumed. But now that I think about it, the show has only gone on for what, a total of maybe two years in their timeline? If they aged, we wouldn't know it yet. But then, are the oldest models age wise really the oldest models? That'd make Tigh and the Brother Cavel models older than the Boomer and Six models. There has to be something else at work.
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quote:It'd be sweet if they arrived and there were a dozen Battlestars in orbit around Earth ready to face off with the Cylons.
Is it wrong of me to be provincially proud of the possibility that, when the Colonials and the Cylons do arrive at Earth, they find a place positively filled to the brim with aggressive, hostile, irritated, and very good at warfare Earthlings?
Heh. "You call that a war? You're a bunch of frakin' pansies! We've been fightin' nonstop ever since we got here!"
Y'know, kinda like Earth
This is the optimal outcome I am hoping for, nothing makes me swell with pride more then to see a moderately advanced and successful Earth, andromeda for example I never got into seeing Earth deemed a slave planet of no strategic importance kinda ruins it for me.
If they arrive at earth and its been glassed I am going to be upset.
Earth: Mostly Harmless
Anyway, piecing together parts of theories that I like from this thread, I would speculate that the final five do predate both modern cylons and the colonies (left overs from the last time it happened). I further speculate that perhaps they, or maybe just the fifth, MADE the cylons (or at least played a major part in it), hence the compatibility.
I like this idea because it makes the whole "This has all happened before. This will all happen again" thing into a nice snug self-fulfilling prophecy, which happen to be the only kind of prophecies that I don't mind.
About Starbuck, perhaps she's a later-model hybrid, or maybe 1/4 Cylon. That would help to explain the visions. Remember the nature of the navigating hybrids on the cylon ships. They were always seeing random stuff. Maybe she's only cylon enough for her mind to be transferred to a new body, provided they HAVE a new body for her to go to (The ovary clone explanation fits in nicely here).
I seriously doubt they're gonna resort to any kind of physics trick to explain how she got to earth. I mean... they never tried to explain anything about the FTL, which is unbelievable enough as it is.
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quote:Originally posted by Noemon: Excusing the implausibility of a plot point with with "it's just television" doesn't really fly for me. In good fiction, it doesn't matter if an event is possible, or if stranger things have happened in real life. If events don't have the feel of plausibility to them within the context of the universe that the storyteller has created, they destroy the reader or viewer's suspension of disbelief. I've seen too much good storytelling take place in the medium of television (especially lately--the last 5 years or so have seen a lot of really good programming, I think) to be willing to accept the excuse for poor storytelling that you're putting forth.
I hear what you are saying, but good storytelling doesn't necessarily mean that every loose plot point is wrapped up or even explained. It has become apparent that the original seven were not aware of the final five in the fleet before this, so it has been fortunate that none of them have been killed yet. Also it looks like not all of the seven particulary care if the five get wiped out right along with the humans. Luck is a part of real life, so why does it make a good story less plausible if the story teller uses it as an element of the plot?
Granted some things are going to deserve plausible explanations. Kara's resurrection? Yep, I am going to want that one explained. The cylons showing up in the ionian nebula the same time as Kara and the fleet? Sorry need and explanation to that one too. As for the final all being in the fleet at the same time, nah. I can believe that could happen out of sheer luck.
Although not so much luck, Anders did have to be rescued off of Caprica by Kara.
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posted
And if I may put forth further thought to the Kara being a cylon theory. She absolutely could be a cylon without being one of the final five or one of the original seven. You'll notice that no one is including Hera and Nicky in the cylon count. Why not have Kara be a hybrid?
Whoa wait a minute......someone check Razor and get back to me, but wasn't there a little blond headed girl locked up with the guy in the room that young Adama found in the flashback? That feels significant. Kara and her father maybe? Kara's mother is not her birth mother because she doesn't have a biological birth mother? Which why her mother hated her, abused her and called her special all at the same time. Maybe Kara's mother is one of the soldiers sent in after Adama to rescue the prisoners?
Well that would be interesting don't ya think?
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quote:People have to realize that the Final Five are NOT really Cylons...not the classic enemy Cylon they've been fighting at any rate. The so called Final Five are not connected to the collective Cylon Consensus, society, or military. The FF do not have multiple copies.
quote:Originally posted by BryanP: It's almost a little too convenient, though, that the final five Cylons all happen to be in the fleet. I hope the writers have a good explanation for that, like maybe the reason that BSG survived the attacks in the first place was that Tigh and Galen and Roslin (shortly before the attacks, anyways) were all on board before the attacks started and their presence was known, or sensed, or something.
People have to realize that the Final Five are NOT really Cylons...not the classic enemy Cylon they've been fighting at any rate. The so called Final Five are not connected to the collective Cylon Consensus, society, or military. The FF do not have multiple copies. The FF age. The FF are indistinguisable from Humans, the Cylon detector (which did work) didn't noticed them and not even the normal Cylons recognized/felt them till the Music.
You're assuming the Standard Seven don't age?
Standard Seven... love it!
And yes, I guess I am assuming. Posts: 4953 | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by ReddwarfVII: And if I may put forth further thought to the Kara being a cylon theory. She absolutely could be a cylon without being one of the final five or one of the original seven. You'll notice that no one is including Hera and Nicky in the cylon count. Why not have Kara be a hybrid?
Whoa wait a minute......someone check Razor and get back to me, but wasn't there a little blond headed girl locked up with the guy in the room that young Adama found in the flashback? That feels significant. Kara and her father maybe? Kara's mother is not her birth mother because she doesn't have a biological birth mother? Which why her mother hated her, abused her and called her special all at the same time. Maybe Kara's mother is one of the soldiers sent in after Adama to rescue the prisoners?
Well that would be interesting don't ya think?
I'm liking it... definatly liking it.
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posted
Adama was the age that Kara is now when he was on that planet. Adama is what, a couple decades older? Kara wouldn't be in her mid 20's as she is.
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quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Adama was the age that Kara is now when he was on that planet. Adama is what, a couple decades older? Kara wouldn't be in her mid 20's as she is.
But it might add more weight to the "I love you like a daughter" bit that keeps coming up periodically.
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quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: That's what I assumed. But now that I think about it, the show has only gone on for what, a total of maybe two years in their timeline? If they aged, we wouldn't know it yet. But then, are the oldest models age wise really the oldest models? That'd make Tigh and the Brother Cavel models older than the Boomer and Six models. There has to be something else at work.
It's tough to say what's up with the aging. Any given Cylon is at most 40 years old, and is likely to be a fair amount younger than that. If we look at the model numbers, it isn't all that implausible that there is some sort of chronological order to them based on ages.
That said, the manner of their resurrection seems to argue against this, since all models come out at the same age, and we've never seen even a hint of age difference within a model. Unless every single member of a model was created at the same time, it seems that they were created at the same age they appear to be now.
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quote:People have to realize that the Final Five are NOT really Cylons...not the classic enemy Cylon they've been fighting at any rate. The so called Final Five are not connected to the collective Cylon Consensus, society, or military. The FF do not have multiple copies.
Says who?
Says me.
So it was just speculation on your part?
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posted
Yes, just speculation on my part (no official word from the writers that I can quote)... but it follows the evidence we've seen so far.
[edit]
Wait... I remember one place I can quote the creators saying the FF are not like the SS...in those Revelation and Phenomenon vids...let me see if I can find a link.
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Okay so Boomer is an eight. Anyone want to try a rundown by the numbers of the models that we know? Cuz numerically, that doen't work.
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I knew Cavil was #1. And the Cylons are so screwed with the ongoing collapse of the hierarchy. With the Centurions aware and free to disobey the humanoid modles...what's to say they won't turn on the SS modles altogether? Have the same problem as the 12 Colonies did.
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posted
Cavil is 1 Leoben is 2 Diana is 3 Doral is 4 or 5 Simon is 4 or 5 Six is 6 Boomer is 8 Um... yeah... Boomer should be 7
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posted
They might have done that on purpose. Boomer model's have shown to be more emotional and closer to humanity than many of the others. Like the Final Five...
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Remember the one Lord of Kobol who wished to be worshiped above all others? Possibly the one whose name cannot be spoken? I feel like there were the twelve Olympians and then this one other, which would make sense with thirteen tribes in the exodus, one of which went a different way...
... and a thirteenth cylon, who was summarily forgotten and/or boxed.
(Then again, I'm waiting until tonight to watch the episode, so maybe I'm way off. )
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posted
So what do you think? Seven is the one that wanted to be worshipped above all else? Or did they just mess up the numbers on accident? I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the missing fifth one is #7
Okay, moratorium on all theory dicussion until after the episode tonight. There are some theories I want to drop, but I can't without dropping spoilers and I don't want to ruin it for everyone that hasn't seen it yet.
But let me say this for those of you that have not watched it yet, pay particular attention to the discussion between the cylons at the top half of the show. That to me was the most important conversation about cylon history that we have heard to date.
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Alright, I hereby declare spoiler season for episode "Six of One" open!
First of all, it was Tom Zarek that put the feelers out to Lee about the position in the government. Awesome. Just... awesome.
And it's about frakking time someone called Laura on her wanting to be the "dying leader." Double points because it was the Admiral (who was particularly awesome tonight).
I loved the thing with Lee - both the pilots' informal farewell and the formal one. And his "I believe you" to Kara was very sweet.
And Six! My goodness! Talk about a major shift in the Cylon forces. Between Cavil's god-complex and his "thing" with Boomer (which, incidentally, is kind of... gross) - I like where this is going.
posted
Wow. Another great episode. I'm shocked by the huge upheavals in the Cylon hierarchy.
But halfway through I really wondering if they'd tie up some of these loose ends. What about Dee and Lee? What about Apollo's relationship with his dad? With the rest of his pilots? Where was he going? And they wrapped all that up in like five minutes I thought VERY effectively.
So he's going to be a member of the Quorum, that fits. I'm wondering then if the Quorum will take on a role of increased significance now that he's there. We didn't really hear from them in S3.
I LOVED the last 10 minutes or so. Apollo's exit, the music was great, the atmosphere, the camaraderie. It was all warm fuzzies. And it was sweet when Adama sent Starbuck off to find Earth.
Heh, when Lee was heading towards Tigh, in my head I was thinking of what Lee would say to him, and it starts off something like this: "Look Colonel, I know we haven't always seen eye to eye..."
Regardless, it was really cool to see EVERYONE there to give him a great sendoff.
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