posted
Yeah, "alterability" wasn't the right word -- I meant the fact that time can be used, that you can jump around in it, that it's not the linear, point a to point b, time that we generally accept. I too believe the show is espousing fated, unalterable timelines.
I think the distinction I was trying to make was between "mysteries that can be explained by accepting that time travel/time speaking/time jumping, etc. is possible" and "mysteries that can be explained by accepting that the dead have presence and power" which, while certainly not the only two explanations we have for WTF is going on, but are at least two basic possibilities (the first almost a certainty) that explain A LOT. I can't imagine an explanation for the ghost one that isn't supernatural, so that's where I came up with the dichotomy Posts: 3516 | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:I can't imagine an explanation for the ghost one that isn't supernatural
define supernatural.
dictionary definition:
quote: 1. Of or relating to existence outside the natural world. 2. Attributed to a power that seems to violate or go beyond natural forces. 3. Of or relating to a deity. 4. Of or relating to the immediate exercise of divine power; miraculous. 5. Of or relating to the miraculous.
I don't believe anything happens that "exists outside the natural world" or "violates or goes beyond natural forces". While we as humans with our current understanding of the universe might not be able to explain certain events doesn't mean they are unexplainable. Just that our current scientific understanding can't explain it. I just don't like the term supernatural because of the implications of accepting a word like that(even though it's current use is more just a slang way of saying "unexplainable phenomena"). The idea of ghosts is one that most people call supernatural. And while I don't believe in ghosts, IF ghosts were real they would necessarily not be "supernatural". But a currently unexplainable "natural" phenomena. Subject to the same laws of the universe that everything else is subject to...ones that way may not happen to understand completely at the moment.
That's just my own personal philosophy about the universe. This is obviously a show we're watching, created by people who may have different world views than me. But it seems that over the seasons the show has moved in a steady direction of explaining many of the "supernatural" mysteries through natural means. I believe they will continue to move in this direction.
quote: This is obviously a show we're watching, created by people who may have different world views than me.
I was going to go here, but you went there for me And I agree with your personal philosophy.
I was using supernatural to indicate "of or relating to existence outside the natural world" with the implied (apparently not evident) reference to the Lost Universe exclusively.
That is, I was referring ONLY to the world of the show, not our own universe -- rather, the Alternate Universe of the show in which there exists an Island where the dead speak and time travel is possible. I was saying that within that universe, one much like ours but where different speculative unlikely things about our world are made manifest, we (the viewer) see time travel, and ghosts. One has already begun to be explained away by science (Farraday's work) the other has not and is not yet introduced as being considered in the same realm as that work. (the dead walking around and talking)
I think it's just easier to make a distinction between something that *seems* scientifically bent (SEEMS being the operative word) and something that *seems* fantastical. Time travel, though, is no more or less plausible scientifically than the existence of volitional ghost creatures, so perhaps a more useful distinction would be sci-fi versus fantasy?
Regardless of labels, the thought in my mind that I used to form my break-down was along the lines of: "Ok, so time travel happens. This is now a basic tenant of the show. But it doesn't explain the physical manifestation of the smoke monster, or the appearance of murdered/killed characters to sane people (may or may not be including Hurley in this). So if the introduction of time travel doesn't answer these questions, something else must. That's annoying that it seems like there are going be a hodge-podge of answers instead of just "everything you've seen is explainable by time travel!" What is the other answer going to be? Ghosts are real? The people aren't dead? Death doesn't really occur on the island? Death occurs but the healing properties of the island render it into a different form? Etc.Etc.Etc."
Since my thought was getting unwieldy, I simplified it. Too much, I guess Basically, I was trying to say that there probably isn't going to be OBOE, but many little explanations.
Also, you're right, everything does seem to be moving towards "natural" explanations. I'll choose my words more carefully in the future. Or is it the past?
posted
Is Locke's leadership of the Island a "Free Lunch"? He tells Richard that he becomes the leader. Richard then goes and follows Locke his whole life to make him the leader. Locke is both he cause and effect of his eventual leadership of the Island. Time does not like this.
originally posted by he Rabbit :
quote:They have some major hurdles to overcome if they are going to return to the island in the next 70 hours. They've got to get Hurley out of jail. Sun is in league with Whidmore and wants to kill Ben. Meanwhile Ben has an outstanding threat to kill Penny. Kate is on the run and it took the FBI years to catch her before. She has been warned by Claire not to bring Aaron back to the island so its not going to be easy to persuade her to change her mind. Then there is Desmond and possibly Walt and even Frank. I can't see them resolving all those issues in only 2 or three episodes without some deus ex machina device.
Hmm, you've convinced me, Rabbit. I still wonder what the 70 hour time limit is. Mrs. Hawking seems have a way of knowing when the island will appear. There is a lot to show on the island.
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quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: *P.S. By "undead" I did not mean to imply she or anyone else is a zombie or vampire, I simply couldn't find any better word for describing the island dead who apparently come back to life.
While I agree, I still think Ethan LOOKED like a zombie way back in season...1? 2? Way back, right before...you know, Charlie. Posts: 691 | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
OMG...can Miles be the son of Dr. Chang(orientation videos guy)???
maybe that's how he knows Charlotte is from the Island, because he is too!
quote:Hmm, you've convinced me, Rabbit. I still wonder what the 70 hour time limit is. Mrs. Hawking seems have a way of knowing when the island will appear. There is a lot to show on the island.
I just saw this 70 hour time limit in a new light. I was only thinking about it in terms of danger to the island and the people on it, i wasn't thinking about the fact that there might be a real world window of opportunity when the island is visible and able to get to, and that Mrs. Hawking would know when that window is open.
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posted
I don't know why I didn't think of it before(in reference to Miles). Particularly after the season premier when we found out that Dr. Chang had a child.
So many things in this show revolve around parent issues.
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posted
Why Latin? (warning: long ramble about possible connections of characters to Roman Mythology to follow!)
Trying to figure out the significance of the Latin had me dancing around the idea of the characters acting out Roman mythology. This has a little bit of validity as a suspicion, not only because of the Latin, but also because Cerberus (the name of the smoke monster, supposedly) was the 3-headed dog who guarded the Underworld, and Rousseau called the Monster the "security system" of the Island. Also, according to the Lostpedia, only four Roman mythological figures were ever able to get past the dog: Heracles, Orpheus, Aeneas, and Psyche.
I thought initially Sawyer, Jack, Hurley, and Kate, because they were the four Losties captures by the others, but soon dropped that...
There are some interesting, but by no means conclusive, parallels between those stories and things that have happened to characters on the island.
At this point, I don't really have an idea about what "getting past the monster" could equal on the show -- being around it and not dying? No one's "defeated" the smoke monster, at least not in a traditional way. But here's some theories anyhow:
Juliet turned on the fence to ward off the Monster, which might indicate her being Psyche, who drugged Cerberus with a cake or something like that to get past him. Also, Psyche was the mortal woman envied by Aphrodite, who sent her son Eros to curse her to love "outcast" men...this might be Harper...However, Eros fell in love himself (Ben) but the love was twisted in that Eros never wanted Psyche to see his true form.
Locke "looked into the heart of the island" and survived both of his encounters with the smoke monster. He then became infused with purpose and felt the island expected things of him. Would he be Heracles, because the Island assigned him "tasks" to perform?
Aside from the Cerberus connection, two of the stations on the island have direct mythological implications: the most obvious being "Hydra" which was one of the Labors of Heracles, and the other being the "Swan": it's one of the animal forms that Zeus took when wooing young ladies (in this case, Leda)
Also, during ComicCon, the Dharma Initiative Recruiting Booth had eight optional recruitment tests that could be taken, named after the 8 moons of Jupiter. Among them: Leda. (also, they're all greek and roman names to begin with!)
One of Heracles' other tasks was to catch the wild boar (also something Locke did).
I haven't found any other direct references yet, still working on my crazy theory! Posts: 3516 | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Strider: OMG...can Miles be the son of Dr. Chang(orientation videos guy)???
You know, it's funny, I thought everyone would assume that, and then I didn't even think to mention it.
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Confirmed a lot of suspicions I had regarding Jin and Rousseau. Huzzah!
Also further confirmed the almost-overwhelming disinterest I have with the LA Losties. I mean, Sayid fighting is always scrumptious, but the rest of their story was *yawn*. Much more interesting to see Angsty!Sawyer pine away on the island.
So when does the time traveling stop, I wonder? And when will Sawyer and Locke start to show signs? Juliette was the next logical step, and that took one additional leap after Miles...how long until Sawyer and Locke?
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posted
I enjoyed the episode a lot, but I also thought it was the weakest of the season so far. The first two weeks were just amazing in my mind.
quote:Confirmed a lot of suspicions I had regarding Jin and Rousseau. Huzzah!
Jin I get because a lot people assumed he was alive. But what about Rousseau was confirmed for you?
Also, the meeting between Jin and Rousseau has me troubled a little bit. If she knows him from this earlier point in time, she should know him in the future when she runs into all the Losties. So here's my question, is the show being consistant. I'm trying to think if Rousseau ever saw or spoke to Jin in the show so far, cause if she had I'd assume she would recognize him. The first time at the end of season one when she warns the Losties about the Others, Jin is on the raft with Michael. Which is just brilliant if it's been planned the whole time. When Rousseau runs into them at the end of season 3 by the radio tower, Jin is back at the beach with Sawyer and Bernard. Has Rousseau ever run into Jin on the Island?? These guys are smart.
quote:So when does the time traveling stop, I wonder?
I'm assuming till at least the time when the Oceanic 6 get back to the Island. My guess is that at some point in the time jumping the on Island Losties time jump to approx 3 years in the future(Island time) and this will be the same time that the Island is visible to the outside world during the window(the 70 hour window) which the Oceanic 6 need to get there. Thus it's been 3 years for the Oceanic 6, and 3 years for the Island, but just a few days of time jumping for the Losties.
Random thoughts:
When they get to their camp, and it's I assume at some point in the "future", Sawyer is pissed that the beers are drank. I bet its himself who drinks them at some future point for him, but in the past of the Island. Fun stuff.
Who are the people shooting at them? Where did they come from? Some airline insignia was on the water bottle right? You think it's the plane that the Oceanic 6 come back on? Or one that follows them or comes at the same time or something?
I had a funny thought about Locke and Richard. Locke has to run into Richard again at some point pre when Richard gives Locke the compass and helps with his leg to tell him to be there. I just thought it'd be funny if Locke jumps back to a previous time, but after Richard has already been trying to bring Locke to the Island, and Locke has failed the first test. And Locke has to tell him, "don't give up on me buddy. i'm still coming!" I don't know if it'll go like this, but it'd be amusing.
Are we going to see what happens with Rousseau and her people now? I can't wait to see how that's going to play out.
quote:And when will Sawyer and Locke start to show signs? Juliette was the next logical step, and that took one additional leap after Miles...how long until Sawyer and Locke?
quote:But what about Rousseau was confirmed for you?
As soon as they started jumping to different points of time on the island I assumed (hoped) that they'd run into young Rousseau. I certainly didn't think it would be Jin, however, although since I assumed he was still alive I don't know why I didn't make the connection that he'd necessarily be traveling at the same time as others. Whether or not Jin has ever come face to face with Rousseau before now is almost immaterial -- she's either made a point not to react to him, or (more likely, imo) she legitimately doesn't recognize him(since she's slightly unhinged when the Losties originally meet her). We also don't know how long Jin and this group will be in contact -- perhaps they'll be separated soon after this meeting.
quote:Why do you leave Faraday out?
Accidentally, truthfully, but the more I think about it the more I like the idea that Faraday is immune and/or "protected" somehow. Either by precautions he's taken in the "past" or some other reason. However, his amount of time on the island (at this point, assuming his adventures in the Orchid station are yet-to-come for him) vs. all the others might be negligible enough that it won't become evident before the time-jumping stops.
I go back and forth on Faraday. Sometimes he seems altruistic, other times almost Ben-ish in his selfishness. We're not entirely sure of Theresa Spencer's backstory, but it's plausible to assume that she was a "mind-time-traveler" in the same vein as the experimental mouse or Desmond, even. Unlike Dr. Jekyll, maybe Faraday doesn't test out his more dangerous theories on *himself* but on other "volunteers" -- in this case, she was probably a girlfriend/lover, since the sister was royally pissed when speaking about how Daniel had "abandoned her" to go running off to America.
Then again, they also haven't been doing much with Faraday's gradual memory loss (or memory re-gaining? I've been unclear whether he's getting worse, or recovering). Maybe this symptom is an indicator of his own side-effects from time-jumping.
Posts: 3516 | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Strider: Also, the meeting between Jin and Rousseau has me troubled a little bit. If she knows him from this earlier point in time, she should know him in the future when she runs into all the Losties. So here's my question, is the show being consistant. I'm trying to think if Rousseau ever saw or spoke to Jin in the show so far, cause if she had I'd assume she would recognize him. The first time at the end of season one when she warns the Losties about the Others, Jin is on the raft with Michael. Which is just brilliant if it's been planned the whole time. When Rousseau runs into them at the end of season 3 by the radio tower, Jin is back at the beach with Sawyer and Bernard. Has Rousseau ever run into Jin on the Island?? These guys are smart.
It worries me, too. I want to trust them that they've fleshed out whatever was necessary to make the show consistent, but I recall watching a behind-the-scenes thing on the first season and the writers/producers basically admiting to winging it. Maybe that's changed since then and that they've had to set more future episodes down way ahead of time, but I just don't know.
quote: Random thoughts:
When they get to their camp, and it's I assume at some point in the "future", Sawyer is pissed that the beers are drank. I bet its himself who drinks them at some future point for him, but in the past of the Island. Fun stuff.
Who are the people shooting at them? Where did they come from?
I commented to my fellow Lost watcher that all these flashes were kind of annoying (in the I-want-answers! way). Sure, some of the things they see are explained simply because we've witnessed those scenes from past episodes (ex: the hatch light and kate/claire/baby). Following that thought up, I think it will be cool if/when they decide to tie up the new loose ends like the identity of the fire arrow shooters (somehow, I don't think that was either the American guys or the Others in that time...they had guns) or the canoe chase people.
quote:Are we going to see what happens with Rousseau and her people now? I can't wait to see how that's going to play out.
I know!!! That's a really exciting prospect. I want to know why they all went crazy, like she says, or learn that really they didn't. Can't wait!
quote:Originally posted by Leonide:
quote:Why do you leave Faraday out?
Accidentally, truthfully, but the more I think about it the more I like the idea that Faraday is immune and/or "protected" somehow. Either by precautions he's taken in the "past" or some other reason.
Yeah, it does seem like there's a possibility he's protected himself using Desmond and his notebook and who knows what else. If anything, those could be working like antihistamines do against allergies, just holding the affects at bay. Just a thought, and definitely not a deep one since the possible analogy just hit me. Hmm...
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quote:Whether or not Jin has ever come face to face with Rousseau before now is almost immaterial -- she's either made a point not to react to him, or (more likely, imo) she legitimately doesn't recognize him(since she's slightly unhinged when the Losties originally meet her). We also don't know how long Jin and this group will be in contact -- perhaps they'll be separated soon after this meeting.
Well, i completely disagree that it's immaterial. Like Traceria says, for the show to be internally consistent this is a very important question. If she spends a significant amount of time with Jin in the past, then she would have to have amnesia not to recognize him in the future. So there are a few options that come of this:
1) She never meets Jin in the future and is thus never able to realize she knows him from her past.
2) she meets jin in the future but doesn't recognize him and the show thus messed up
3) faraday is wrong about the nature of time travel and events are now being changed.
i'm only happy with Option 1. I'm most unhappy with option 3. And i'm somewhat disappointed with option 2.
quote:Originally posted by Traceria:
quote:Originally posted by Leonide:
quote:Why do you leave Faraday out?
Accidentally, truthfully, but the more I think about it the more I like the idea that Faraday is immune and/or "protected" somehow. Either by precautions he's taken in the "past" or some other reason.
Yeah, it does seem like there's a possibility he's protected himself using Desmond and his notebook and who knows what else. If anything, those could be working like antihistamines do against allergies, just holding the affects at bay. Just a thought, and definitely not a deep one since the possible analogy just hit me. Hmm...
here's the thing. if he's being protected by having a constant, why hasn't he told anyone else about the idea of constants? While these nosebleeds obviously relate to the time travel, and relate to the negative effects desmond was having as well as the other dude on the boat, they're not exactly the same. What happened to desmond and that other guy was caused by consciousness jumping. they were jumping in time within their own bodies at various times throughout their lives. what's happening to the folks now is their whole body actually jumping in time but staying in one location relative to the island.
quote: what's happening to the folks now is their whole body actually jumping in time but staying in one location.
Hmm... So one way or another, a variable is changing. Maybe they have it set up so that no matter what variable alters, the body's reaction is the same. I mean, why get creative with your symptoms? Posts: 691 | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
Actually, they are moving millions of miles or more. If they appeared at the same point in space as they started, they'd be sucking vacuum.
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quote:Well, i completely disagree that it's immaterial. Like Traceria says, for the show to be internally consistent this is a very important question
It's immaterial because of exactly what I said. Whether or not the writers are "winging it" there are plenty of plausible explanations as to why she might not recognize him, including, but not limited to: her never seeing him in the future, her seeing him but not long enough to recognize him, her seeing him but being CRAZY and not connecting the dots, her being told to or deciding not to react to him because of what happens with Past!Jin, etc.etc.etc. If the 16 years that have passed have made it difficult for her to recognize strange mystery boat-wreck survivors she met one time, one day, before her baby was stolen from her, before her fellow scientists were killed, before she lived alone like a hermit for years on end...well, i'm thinking the show is going to give us something plausible to work with. If the past is changeable, that's another reason. I wouldn't be thrilled with that one at this point, either, but it could always happen.
quote:here's the thing. if he's being protected by having a constant, why hasn't he told anyone else about the idea of constants?
He protected himself before the memory lapses started occurring, and he doesn't remember that aspect of his work?
Also, aside from Charlotte he does seem kind of, well, not that concerned for the others? Maybe this is another Time Traveling Daniel, not the same one as we've assumed? Maybe the Daniel who came out of the forest after those two hours wasn't the same one they left? I'm started to consider all sorts of time-travel mayhem.
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quote:Originally posted by Achilles: Actually, they are moving millions of miles or more. If they appeared at the same point in space as they started, they'd be sucking vacuum.
Time travel in science fiction always (almost always) includes positional shifting to eliminate that issue. The only counter-example I can think of is probably Spider Robinson's ... I think it was Callahan's Key. Where a character travelling a mere hour in time almost dies because they wound up in deep space.
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quote:Originally posted by Strider: you're right Achilles, fixed up my statement.
I'd say "keepin' it real, man" but with Lost I think it would be more apt to say "keepin' it internally consistant."
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posted
Angsty Sawyer's getting on my nerves as bad as angsty Jack. And he looked better when he was burying the angst under inappropriate jokes at others' expense--anyone w/ dimples that great needs to smile sometimes.
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quote:Originally posted by Uprooted: Angsty Sawyer's getting on my nerves as bad as angsty Jack. And he looked better when he was burying the angst under inappropriate jokes at others' expense--anyone w/ dimples that great needs to smile sometimes.
I'm still waiting for Sawyer and Miles to really face off. That would be one entertaining exchange.
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quote:And he looked better when he was burying the angst under inappropriate jokes at others' expense
Actually, this is one part of his personality that I'm really starting to get tired of. Feels more like the writers cashing in on a popular quirk than anything organic to the character.
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posted
if I knew what broadcast you were talking about, I'd have an opinion.
I was very interested to see how the Smoke Monster took out Rousseau's team. I thought Daniel would react differently to Charlotte's death. I'm guessing the "she" Charlotte mentions to Jin is not Sun, but someone else (her mother?) because why else would the show take away the subtitles for that bit? Tricksy. I was annoyed that all it took was the wedding ring to quell Sun's murderous rage...not that I wanted her to kill Ben, but her switcheroo seemed kinda fast.
That's all I've been thinking about....I missed the first five-ten minutes of the show driving home from work, though, so I might have additional stuff after I catch that bit tomorrow. Posts: 3516 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
At the beginning of the episode we hear the numbers transmission that brought the french team to the Island. The same transmission that was heard by the Australian dude who gave the numbers to Hurley. It totally sounded to me like it was Hurley's voice we heard in that transmission. I'll have to re-listen more closely.
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What exactly did the smoke monster do to the team?
When Charlotte says "don't bring her back" is she referring to Sun or their daughter?
Similarly, last season we heard Claire say "don't you dare bring him to the Island" and Hurley told Jack that Charlie said "you're not supposed to raise him". Most people assumed this meant Aaron, some theorized it was Locke.
I think Charlotte's father is Widmore. I also think it's sad that Faraday tries to warn Charlotte as a child to not come back to the Island when intellectually he knows it won't work.
They dropped an interesting line from Faraday tonight after explaining something about the time jumps saying something along the lines of "this is where science ends". It has me a bit worried and speculating that the producers may have the characters "change" something or veer off the path they've been heading down of explaining more and more mysteries through natural/scientific means. It also reminds me of the whole thing with the numbers and the Valenzetti equation and the purpose of the Dharma initiative(to change the numbers and thus save the world).
Now that Locke has turned(and fixed?) the wheel will the time jumps stop for the rest of them on the Island? Or continue?
How does Charlotte know about the well? Is she remembering something from childhood? In fact...random speculation. When they time jump, whatever they're holding seems to come with them right? Sawyer is still holding on to the rope from the well after they jump. And yet they jump to a time before the well was dug, so there is nothing but solid ground there, with this long rope presumably stuck inside it. So is the whole reason the well was dug in that particular location, and that whoever dug it possibly knew where it would lead, only because of the time traveling rope that sawyer brought with him which in essence is the X marking the spot?
From how they ended the episode I'm guessing it was supposed to be a big reveal that Mrs. Hawking was Faraday's mom. This turned out to be an anticlimactic end to the episode for me.
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posted
Dang it, I think I missed the numbers broadcast. We turned it on at like 9:01 due to learning how to play bridge.
Anyway...
Good question! We know the outcome of what it did (made them turn on Danielle at least, if not one another), but what did it do to make them do that? My first thought is that it was some kind of substance, as opposed to conditioning or brainwashing. Something that could cause them to develop nearly instant delusions.
Going to have to watch that scene again sometime. At the moment, I'm equally open to it meaning Sun or her daughter.
"I also think it's sad that Faraday tries to warn Charlotte as a child to not come back to the Island when intellectually he knows it won't work." I agree. He definitely wasn't operating in normal Faraday fashion. That had to be his desperation speaking.
I'm reluctant to read into Faraday's science ending comment too much at present. What was going on then was that Locke and Co. were taking some stabs at what might fix the problem. They didn't know, didn't have any real evidence to support their actions except what some shady Others told them, with no real explanation included. Unless the theme comes up again, I think it was just a comment on the guessing game type strategy being employed.
The flashes continue, I say, if only because there must be something to getting the O6 back. Ben screwed it up, so just because you set the wheel back in place doesn't mean residual damage will be corrected as well.
Hoping we get a little more explanation on Charlotte's chatter. For some reason, I don't think it was that she saw the well when a child. In my head, the timeline isn't making that work, not according to her age (what it seems to be, anyway). I'm more inclined to think that someone tipped her off as a child, sort of like Daniel saying not to come back or she would die.
Here's a question: Why did Jin appear in the same location as Sawyer and gang after that one flash? Were they in different times but the same location before that? It just doesn't sit right.
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posted
Does the wheel exist somewhere independent of time? After all, it appears that the time period that Locke ends up finding the wheel is actually before the well was dug, meaning that it was BEFORE Ben turned the wheel and knocked it off its axis. But if it was before Ben turned the wheel, why was the wheel out of control? And when Locke sets the wheel right, does that move the island for everyone in the past? Or does it only move the island for the Losties from the future?
And that also leaves the question - what time will Sawyer, Jin, Daniel, etc. end up in? Will they be back in their own time? Will they be stuck in the time that they stopped in? We know at least that at some point Daniel is still back in time, since the opening sequence of Season 5 had him as a member of the Dharma Initiative, and because he still needs to tell Charlotte not to come back.
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posted
And as usual, I can't remember stuff from previous episodes. When/how did Jin/we learn that Charlotte speaks Korean?
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quote:Originally posted by Uprooted: And as usual, I can't remember stuff from previous episodes. When/how did Jin/we learn that Charlotte speaks Korean?
On the boat, I believe. Before it exploded.
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posted
Wow, I so don't remember. I think I'm going to start re-watching old episodes.
Do the reruns they air just before the new shows have any pertinence to the new show in terms of setup? I haven't watched any of those so far this season.
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quote:Originally posted by Uprooted: And as usual, I can't remember stuff from previous episodes. When/how did Jin/we learn that Charlotte speaks Korean?
On the boat, I believe. Before it exploded.
I can't remember if it was either mentioned or confirmed there, but there was actually another instance that clued us in. Jin and Sun were speaking in Korean, and Charlotte either said something or reacted in a way that gave away the fact she understood. Sun, I believe, tried to call her on it, but Charlotte attempted to play it off. It was near the end of last season.
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quote:They dropped an interesting line from Faraday tonight after explaining something about the time jumps saying something along the lines of "this is where science ends". It has me a bit worried and speculating that the producers may have the characters "change" something or veer off the path they've been heading down of explaining more and more mysteries through natural/scientific means
yeah, this is definitely not what i was talking about last week. nope, nothing to see here.
Question about Jin: i'll accept the implausibility of the freighter blast throwing Jin from outside the island's pull to inside, but wasn't the helicopter BETWEEN the freighter and the island when the move happened? (and the Helicopter was outside of the pull range) Did the blast throw Jin past the helicopter? I was going to speculate that Jin somehow eventually floated into the Island's pull, but that's impossible...the island has moved, now.
Although, come to think of it, if the island has moved, where is it? And does that mean that everytime the Losties are time-traveling into the past they are experiencing the island in a new location from where the events originally happened? Or are they space-traveling as well, to back where the island used to exist?
Also, have we discussed DesmondTravel versus IslandTravel? Obviously there are different types of time travel going on here: DesmondTravel is closest to, like, Quantum Leaping...he enters himself at different times of his life, though, versus entering other people. It's a mental transference -- FutureDesmond into PastDesmonds. On the Island, though, the Losties are physically (?) moving through time/space, but remaining in their own selves.
Are Rose/Bernard and the other (possibly) alive Losties traveling as well, just in separate places? Are we assuming that the Sawyer/Juliet/Freighter Team people are the only ones this is affecting? If so, why?
Posts: 3516 | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Also, have we discussed DesmondTravel versus IslandTravel? Obviously there are different types of time travel going on here: DesmondTravel is closest to, like, Quantum Leaping...he enters himself at different times of his life, though, versus entering other people. It's a mental transference -- FutureDesmond into PastDesmonds. On the Island, though, the Losties are physically (?) moving through time/space, but remaining in their own selves.
yeah, i talked about this in relation to the nose bleeds and temporal displacement but didn't really get anywhere in understanding what the differences, if any, are in the affect on the people time traveling.
quote:Are Rose/Bernard and the other (possibly) alive Losties traveling as well, just in separate places? Are we assuming that the Sawyer/Juliet/Freighter Team people are the only ones this is affecting? If so, why?
I assume they're traveling in time as well, but possibly holed up somewhere, ignoring the goings on of everyone else...the cave maybe? Maybe Rose and Bernard are Adam and Eve. Black Rock/White Rock, black woman/white man, BOOM!
Posts: 8741 | Registered: Apr 2001
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quote:Are Rose/Bernard and the other (possibly) alive Losties traveling as well, just in separate places? Are we assuming that the Sawyer/Juliet/Freighter Team people are the only ones this is affecting? If so, why?
I assume they're traveling in time as well, but possibly holed up somewhere, ignoring the goings on of everyone else...the cave maybe? Maybe Rose and Bernard are Adam and Eve. Black Rock/White Rock, black woman/white man, BOOM!
Ah, so that's why we only got one episode of flashbacks for them... Nifty idea. Makes you wonder if they're the trick up the writers' sleeves.
Back to Jin, though, despite the pull radius being in question, has anyone considered why he showed up after the last white-out in the same location as Sawyer and all? I was under the impression that no matter where on the island itself, the alive Losties were all jumping to the same times each time. Does this mean they really weren't? Or does it somehow fit in with Jin's gettng sucked into the pull despite being out by the boat. Are there other boat survivors out there bouncing around yet not necessarily in the same time as Locke/Sawyer/etc. each time?
Eek...too many uses of the word time.
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posted
I think there is a really simple explanation for that. For two jumps we saw only Jin's subjective experience and where he went on the Island. I assume that during this time the rest of the Losties were making their way through the woods on their way to the Orchid station and ran into him when their paths converged. It just happened to be right after a jump.
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So, that would mean that they just didn't get any warning that he was headed for them (running from Danielle) until after the jump? I could buy that.
Posts: 691 | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
Lost has become such an addiction for me that I started up an email group to discuss the show. I was spending so much time talking about the show with various individuals that in an effort to have some sort of free time in my life I've consolidated all the conversations into one location.
It's not really helping all that much.
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Did anyone notice the look on Bens face when Desmond said "you,re looking for Daniel Faraday's mother too." he seemed suprised, as if he did not know who she was.
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He did! Man, if someone pulled the wool over his eyes, it'd be cause to rejoice! He's always buried so deep in every plot, that'd make me giddy to know he can be kept out of the loop, even if it's only this once.
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That's a really good point. I noticed the look and realized that he didn't know that Mrs. Hawking was Faraday's mother, but I didn't really think about the implications of what that meant till last night talking it over with someone else.
Widmore is Ben's enemy. Widmore sent a bunch of people to the Island on a boat, one of the purposes of which was to capture Ben. Faraday was one of those people. The mother of that person is the person Ben answers too.
That's really got to throw him for a loop.
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