posted
I predict that the student who comes back to teach at Hogwarts is Neville. He'll teach Herbology (or whatever that plant class is called), and be a great teacher, after a bit of practice to get his confidence up.
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1) Snape is on the side of good, although he is a flawed human being (i.e., I agree with Shigosei).
2) Dumbledore really is dead, although he will encore in the mirror.
3) Dumbledore and Snape set up DD's killing by Snape for all the aforementioned reasons in this thread.
4) And here is where it gets interesting (aka wacky): Snape and James Potter had exchanged souls. Snape is really James Potter. This is why he was so freaked out by Harry seeing Snape's memories (shame of how he -- as James -- acted), why he can be trusted to protect Harry (his son), and why he loathes and resents any sign of arrogance in Harry (sees himself in his son).
I'm sticking with it until I read Book 7 and am convinced otherwise.
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posted
4)But if that was the case, wouldn't Snape be a lot kinder to Harry? Or to anyone else, after all, he did grow up to be a more mature person who wouldn't act as terrible as Snape does. Plus he'd be agonized about losing Lily.
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VD - "Dumbledore never told you who your father was did he Harry?"
HP - "He told me enough, he told me you killed him."
VD - "No. I, am your father."
Ironically, VD and Vader, and DD and Obiwan share a lot of the same characteristics. Yet another sign that Campbell's monomyth and character archetypes rule all. Damn you Campbell. Damn you.
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quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: 4)But if that was the case, wouldn't Snape be a lot kinder to Harry? Or to anyone else, after all, he did grow up to be a more mature person who wouldn't act as terrible as Snape does. Plus he'd be agonized about losing Lily.
Maybe he can't stand looking at Harry's eyes because they remind him too much of Lily. I had another thought too, but it ran away.
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posted
I'm predicting that Harry uses the mirror of erised to find the last Horcrux.
Having found all but the last his whole being will be focused on wanting, needing to find it and it will be shown to hiim in the mirror.
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quote: 4)But if that was the case, wouldn't Snape be a lot kinder to Harry? Or to anyone else, after all, he did grow up to be a more mature person who wouldn't act as terrible as Snape does. Plus he'd be agonized about losing Lily.
I think the mature person James grew up into was actually him after Snapification.
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posted
I haven't read this entire thread but I really like a lot of the theories here. It looks like most things point to Snape being on the good side, mainly because we all want to think DD didn't waste his death.
My only question that I haven't seen covered was the first chapter with the Prime Minister. Was that just a jab at Bush and Blair or will it come back into play? It seemed to have nothing to do with the storyline.
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posted
She's been wanting to put that in since Chamber of Secrets. It was good for introducing the new Ministry of Magic and showing just how condesending and incompetend the Ministry is.
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I think Rowling is telling two separate (but related) stories at the same time. The first story is the straight-read, where Snape seems evil, but nothing really makes sense when you try to pin it down. Why does Dumbledore trust him? What is Dumbledore not telling Harry, and why? Will Snape really turn out to be evil after all? It's a great strategy for keeping people hooked and guessing until the end. It provides great cliffhangers and generates a lot of discussion.
But I think we're building up to a big denouement in Book 7. Suddenly, all will be made clear. The scales will fall from our eyes. There will be a big Aha! moment, and then an Oooooohhhhh! as we resort the whole story and all our preconceptions about it.
And then we read the second story, the one where we reread all the books, again, but now with those scales lifted from our eyes. And instead of the story of Snape and Harry (dark, confusing, frustrating, puzzling), we read the story of James and Harry (dark, painful, aching, gut-wrenching). I think that's what Rowling is aiming for.
And so, for example, instead of "Snape" being ashamed of how he was humiliated by James, we see James' self-loathing and hatred of how twisted he was for enjoying the humiliation he wreaks on another. He didn't want his son to see him like that, not his son who admired and respected him.
C'mon. What really shook Harry about that memory? He didn't care about Snape. He was aghast at seeing this side of his father. That wrecked his security, his identity. It made him question himself, too, as he identified with his father. He was appalled at what he saw James do, but he couldn't have cared less about what happened to Snape in contrast.
Don't you think Snape would have known that? Here we have a grown man, supposedly at the height of his wizarding powers, in charge of a Hogwarts house, and he's reduced to shuddering angry tears at the fact that this student saw him being embarrassed back when he, himself, was still a young boy. If he really hated Harry, wouldn't he have known that the real power play was to draw himself up, slowly and measuredly, then declaim in a sardonic, cutting way: "So, Harry Potter, now you've seen what your father was really like. A tormentor, a bully, and an arrogant bastard. Just like you, Potter, just like you. You'll never be any more than he was: a bully, a braggart, and a total fool."
I mean, anyone with any sense and life experience would know that freaking out over being humiliated just gives those that tease you yet more ammunition. I can't believe Snape would lose self-control enough to show Harry how much he cared about that long-ago incident, not if he had at his fingeretips the perfect means of hurting Harry where it really counts, instead.
But I would buy that he was James trying against all odds to maintain his son's good opinion of him, now aghast and ashamed beyond reason. I think he wants Harry to be a better man than he was, and he's filled with enough self-loathing to both goad Harry and refuse to forgive himself. Maybe he had even gone over to Voldemort as James, maybe not. Regardless, there's another story to read there than the obvious one, I'm sure of it.
That would also explain why so much emphasis is placed on Harry looking like James. He'sgothisfather'sfaceandhismother'seyes. It even almost becomes a joke by Book 6 -- everyone mentions it. I think that it is emphasized too much not to be a serious misleader. That's the way Rowling writes.
Just a theory, though. I'm interested to see what happens. It would be a fascinating way to get a double-bang out of the story, and it would generate interest that carried out past the mere ending of the series. More difficult to write, more intriguing, more sales (as people went back to reread), and more lasting impact on the literary world. Much, much more fun to write.
posted
I don't buy it, CT. Snape's interactions with his fellows -- including Lupin and Sirius -- don't make much sense if he's actually James.
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posted
I reread the series before I read Book 6, and I can make sense of those interactions. I suspect that James may have gone very dark before he turned back to the light. Or, quite possibly, only Dumbledore knows the sacrifice that James made.
We'll see. I'm very much looking forward to the last book, regardless. Her writing is definitely getting better.
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posted
Nah, Rowling is such a master of backstory that she'll make sure it's something grounded in the history of the story and will make us slap ourselves on the head and shout, "Of course!" I mean, did you SEE how many boxes she had in her A&E Biography?
EDIT: Also, some ideas. Regulus is definitely dead, otherwise Harry wouldn'tve inherited 12 Grimmauld Place.
And maybe Voldemort kidnapped Ollivander to make a new wand so there's no more Priori Incantetem mumbo jumbo next time he and Harry have the ol' mexican showdown.
[ July 27, 2005, 06:00 PM: Message edited by: Book ]
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I'm reading the whole series again. In the first book, the first time Harry sees Snape, Harry's scar really hurts him. Was it ever really explained why it hurt right then? As far as I recall the only other time Harry's scar hurts is when it's directly related to Voldemort. Why would it hurt that one other time? This might throw some doubt into my own Snape=good guy thoughts.
posted
Maybe because Snape told Voldemort about the prophecy? That's the only real Snape/Harry/Voldemort connection we know about for sure.
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posted
I think it was another sign of LV's anger. Snape was talking to Voldemort-as-Quirrell, and then Snape looked at Harry and then Harry's scar hurt. My guess is that Snape made LV mad about whatever they were speaking of.
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posted
akhockey is correct. In fact, at that moment, Quirrel's turban was facing Harry, giving Voldemort-in-Quirrel's-head a good line of sight.
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posted
Harry's scar hurt whenever the back of Quirrell's head was facing him. Rowling was always careful to make sure that it was there, but described as incidental to Snape's presence. (or when he was in the forest, and we had no idea what he was really looking at)
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posted
Book-- Actually, no. I thought that too when I first read it, but remember that the house passed to Harry despite the fact that it should have gone to Bellatrix? Sirius' will trumped the bloodline, so Regulus still could be alive, though I doubt it.
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posted
Ive always wondered if DD is a seer who could see the future and used this to help Harry. For instance, in SS how did DD know to come back instead of head off to London? As it pertains to book 6, did DD forsee what would happen and thus feel free to give Snape the DADA job because he knew that snape would gone anyway? This would explain alot about how the events of book 6 unfolded. Moreover, anticitpating the objection, I think that DD had to keep the fact that he was a seer a secret because it was a great tool against VD. In the end, I think DD did as much as he had to do in order to help Harry down the path. If he is a seer then he knows that all the things he has done will create a positive ending.
Also, I think that DD and Snape were arguing over the fact that Snape would kill DD because he had forseen it and Snape had decided that he didnt want to do it. Also, why did Snape instantly go up to the top of the astronomy tower when he got to the battle instead of start fighting? He didnt know that Malfoy was up there nor that DD was up there because no body told him that. The order didnt tell him and, as far as I can tell, the death eaters didnt either. He simply ran past all of them straight to the top of the tower. How did he know to go up there unless DD hold told him this would happen?
Finally, at the beginning when DD comes to retrieve Harry, he tells off the Dursleys and asks them to take Harry back one more time as if he knew he was going to die. I think thats why DD finally told off the dursleys and did what he did. For, he knew his fate and had to put harry in the best possible position!
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posted
Wouldn't the house stay within direct family lines and heirs? Bellatrix is a cousin, whereas Harry is the legal heir to a son.
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posted
>> And here is where it gets interesting (aka wacky): Snape and James Potter had exchanged souls. Snape is really James Potter. This is why he was so freaked out by Harry seeing Snape's memories (shame of how he -- as James -- acted), why he can be trusted to protect Harry (his son), and why he loathes and resents any sign of arrogance in Harry (sees himself in his son).
SPOILERS
Didn't Harry see his Dad's ghost when he broke Voldemort's spell at the end of Book 4?
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posted
If Snape was in love with Lily (which I think would be likely), the reason he probably hates Harry is that he's the constant reminder that the only person who stuck up for Snape in his life wound up falling in love with the guy who made his school days a living hell. I mean, being that Harry is James with Lily's eyes, every time Snape looks at him he probably has visions of James and Lily making love or something. I can understand that level of hate.
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posted
From the interview with the WMs of Mugglenet and Leaky Cauldron:
quote:ES: Was James the only one who had romantic feelings for Lily?
JKR: No. [Pause.] She was like Ginny, she was a popular girl.
MA: Snape?
JKR: That is a theory that's been put to me repeatedly.
ES: What about Lupin?
JKR: I can answer either one.
ES: How about both? One at a time.
JKR: I can't answer, can I, really?
ES: Can you give us any clue, without misleading us [Emerson misspoke; he meant “without giving too much away”] --?
JKR: I've never, to my knowledge, lied when posed a question about the books. To my knowledge. You can imagine, I've now been asked hundreds of questions; it's perfectly possible at some point I misspoke or I gave a misleading answer unintentionally, or I may have answered truthfully at the time and then changed my mind in a subsequent book. That makes me cagey about answering some questions in too much detail because I have to have some leeway to get there and do it my way, but never on a major plot point.
Lupin was very fond of Lily, we'll put it like that, but I wouldn't want anyone to run around thinking that he competed with James for her. She was a popular girl, and that is relevant. But I think you've seen that already. She was a bit of a catch.
MA: How did they get together? She hated James, from what we’ve seen.
JKR: Did she really? You're a woman, you know what I'm saying. [Laughter.]
quote:So Ginny poured out her soul to me, and her soul happened to be exactly what I wanted... I grew stronger and stronger on a diet of her deepest fears, her darkest secrets. I grew powerful, far more powerful than little Miss Weasely. Powerful enough to start feeding Miss Weasely a few of my secrets, to start pouring a little of my soul back into her
posted
Beren I've always wondered that too...seems like a much easier way to deal with deserters..rather than hunting them down and killing them, they just die when they try to leave. My guess is that an Unbreakable Vow is a pretty rare thing, otherwise they'd happen all over the place. Couples would make UV to keep from cheating, work places would make UV to keep employees from being shady. Witnesses in court would take UV to keep from lying. I think JKR is trying to make it look like UV raaaarely ever happen, otherwise, yeah, I'd agree that a UV would make sense for the DE. There might be more to the UV too, that we aren't really told.
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posted
Something I've always wondered about... Priori Incantatem is supposed to show the spells in reverse order... last murder first. James was supposedly killed first, yet at the end of Book 4 when Harry breaks the spell, James comes out first, then Lily, which would mean she died first. So is this significant, or just a small mistake JKR made?
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posted
I'm pretty sure she has admitted that was a mistake (and I think she said it has been corrected in later printings).
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posted
She answers the question about the order here. It was a mistake made by the American editor. I'm not sure if it is printed that way in my version (which is the same as the British version).
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Harry CAN be a horcrux if the snake is a horcrux. It would make sense that he had a bit of LV in, say, the region of his scar. He was planning to make a Horcrux when he killed Harry as a baby, but Lily got in the way, and her death somehow made Harry a horcrux by accident. I dunno, it IS possible.
DD made Snape agree to kill him, because he thought it was best. Remember Hagrid overheard Snape saying he 'couldn't do it' and DD talling him he had to...
Might have had a lot to do with DD trying to save Draco, or just getting out of the way of Harry, so Harry can grow up and be his own man.
He will definitely pull some sort of Obi-Wan, even if it is only Something Harry remembers him saying.
Snape is conflicted about Harry, i think, but he definitely dislikes him on some level.
At the end, he stops Harry from using any unforgivable curses, and doesn't hurl back any of his own. He also tells him he has to learn Occlumancy or he's useless -- basically giving him lessons while he's fleeing.
Oh, and RAB is definitely Regulus. In book five, the kids find this big locket at Grimmauld Place and nobody can open it. DUH. Regulus is dead, sure, but the locket was there. Maybe Mundungus stole it and sold it, but it WAS there.
Somehow or other, it will turn out that Dumbledore was right to trust Snape, but the plan could only work if no one else on the good side did.
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quote:It would make sense that he had a bit of LV in, say, the region of his scar.
Could the scar itself be a Horocrux or a failed horocrux? Maybe LV put an object in the shape of the lightning bolt on Harry to facilitate the process - like the jewel in a phylactery - and it was consumed when the spell rebounded.
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posted
HOW can Harry be a Horcrux if Voldemort was trying to KILL him!? Explain this to me! Why would Voldemort EVER try to destroy a piece of his soul? That's his whole motivation -- eternal life/existence! It would be not only ridiculously stupid but AGAINST CHARACTER for Voldemort to suddenly decide he wanted to do away with a part of himself!
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posted
Leonide, all the arguments that Harry is a Horocrux (which I don't believe, by the way) are based on some magical mishap, not LV's intent.
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posted
From what we've read about Horcruxes (admittedly, not nearly enough info is given) it seems like it takes some serious magic mojo to make it all happen -- otherwise, anyone who killed a person in the wizarding world would be *accidentally* making horcruxes all over the place!
It seems like it would have had to have been a very deliberate, calculated decision on LV's part, not some chance magical transference.
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LV makes a very deliberate, calculated decision to make a Horocrux and prepares something in advance to using serious magic mojo.
He then murders the person.
The preparation causes the soul fragmentation incident to the murder to be captured in the Horocrux.
If this is how Horocruxes work, then it was a very deliberate, calculated decision on LV's part, with an unprecented magical event intervening somehow.
Now, we don't know how Horocruxes work. It oculd be that the serious magic mojo happens after the murder. But there's nothing inconsistent with it coming first.
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posted
So the theory is that he *was* planning on making a non-Harry horcrux, but the backfiring of the killing curse mucked that up? Plausible, but then why doesn't Voldie know that? There've been no hints that he knows Harry has 1/7th of his soul, and either LV or his minions have tried to kill Harry many, many times.
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posted
I think the Harry-as-horcrux is an entertaining theory, but I don't believe it at all. Voldemort would have to be spectacularly incompetent to accidentally make a horcrux and then continually try to destroy it. I don't like solutions that require someone to be stupid.
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posted
Harry doesn't have 1/7 of V's soul. He has a splintered piece of it. And why would V try to destroy one of his own Horcruxes? Because it's housed inside his one true rival! We know from OotP that they could possess each other pretty easily, and Voldemort doesn't want Harry to become a Super-Legilimens and start reading his mind whenever he wants to. Why else would he start using Occlumency in HBP?
Speaking of OotP, how is it possible that Harry was riding along with Nagini? Voldemort wasn't controlling the snake when it attacked Arthur Weasley, otherwise while Harry was along for the ride, he would have been hearing complete, rational thoughts. That's an awefully strong bond between a kid and a snake that have only met once. Unless, of course, they belong to the "Carrying a Piece of Voldemort's Soul" club
Voldemort kills enough people to be able to make a 6th Horcrux again - or maybe Nagini was the 6th, but Voldemort found out afterwards that Harry really was a Horcrux.
Speaking of Nagini, if the snake really is a Horcrux, then it's possible for Voldemort to perform the spell when he's very weak. So it can't be an overly-taxing enchantment or anything.
Finally, in The Interview, JKR says that a careful re-reading of the books will reveal one of the Horcruxes. Because of long extra hours at work, I'll probably get through the first three books this weekend, but in my recollection and opinion, Harry's the only thing that it could be.
Complete side note: Harry needs a new wand.
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quote:So the theory is that he *was* planning on making a non-Harry horcrux, but the backfiring of the killing curse mucked that up? Plausible, but then why doesn't Voldie know that? There've been no hints that he knows Harry has 1/7th of his soul, and either LV or his minions have tried to kill Harry many, many times.
This is why I don't buy the theory. But it's not outright impossible.
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