posted
I won't say I agree with his points, not all of them, but I think part of the problem is that he isn't expressing himself well at all. A lot of what he is saying has value, although not a definite, inarguable value by any means.
I personally (and this is NOT directed at ANYONE here, or anyone in particular) believe that a lot of what is wrong with society is that we all quit on things that matter too easily. If someone cheats on a spouse, or a couple argues a lot, some people pull away without even trying to work out the problems. I am not condoning these sort of actions, or saying that couples should HAVE to stay together either, just that there are a lot of things that a couple can do other than quit so easily, providing they are willing to try a little harder and not quit on each other.
I am not saying that trying to work things out is always the best option, or trying to say that I know enough about anyones particular situation to tell them what to do with their personal life. I am saying that I have seen some relationships that probably could have been saved if the first thought in one (or both) of their heads wasn't "Screw this, I am out of here!".
I had a person tell me that they were more scared when buying a house with their husband as a co-signer than they were when getting married, because " buying a house together is like forever, there is no way out of it.".
I just shook my head and said nothing, but hearing that made me sad. With that sort of attitude about marriage they were probably right, the mortgage probably WILL last longer than their life together.
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Wow. I haven't had a lot of time to be around here and I guess I totally missed this thread. I definately have to at least put my two cents in as well. Occasional, i actually completely agree with you. Divorce is totally against verything I believe. But here's the thing. Sometimes there is no choice. Someone said it earlier in this thread and I'm too lazy to go look it back up but it takes two committed adults to make a marriage work. For nearly two years I have been trying to make an entire marriage work all by myself. I've learned something, It just doesn't work. All the love and commitment I have in the world can't stop someone from walking out the door every night to go sleep with someone else. All the patients and understanding in the world can't make someone getout of bed to help their children get dressed or eat breakfast, or lunch, or dinner. When you sit and watch someone hurt you and your children day in a nd day out and when it gets to the point where your kids stop even acknowledging thei own mother because they know she won't do anything for them you have to re-evaluate you position. I've been married just over six years, which means that for a third of my entire marriage I've watched the woman I love do everything in her power to hurt, abandon, and neglect the rest of us. Sometimes enough is just enough, and when it comes down to the kids, I actually think I've subjected them to this horrible situation longer than I should have. And funny enough, It's because I have refused to go down that divorce road because it's "wrong".
Here's a quick little annalogy. My sister is a vegetarian and has been for over ten years. Eating meat is "Wrong" in her view. However I can guarentee that faced with the choice of eating a hamburger or having a hot poker lodged in her heart and the heart of her nieces where they will causes her and the kids pain and sufferig as long as she refuses to eat that meat, well, she'd eat the meat. That just what I'm doing, I'm taking a bite into something that doesn't taste very good, something I don't believe in because it's what has to be done.
By the way, I am glad to hear that your wife feels the same way you do. that means you won't ever be in this situation. But not all spouses have the same level of devotion and moral strength.
Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I have not read the entire thread. It's too long and I don't have that kind of time right now.
With that caveat in mind:
The casual attitude towards divorce is disturbing, but so is the misconception that everyone who gets divorced is an uncommitted, lazy, selfish person. There are many reasons that fall outside of cheating or abuse to get divorced, and until you put yourself in a position to personally deal with each situation I think that it's unfair to take such a hard-line approach.
Posts: 1480 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
**I haven't read everything in this thread yet but this is my reaction to the first and third page**
This is something I care about a lot, so while I normally wouldn't attack arguements bit by bit I'm going to make an exception here. Now, bear in mind that the belief that I plan to carry into my own marriage is that divorce is really not an option. Going into marriage with the idea that "there's always divorce if something happens" seems to invite problems or negate some of the importance of trying your upmost to resolve them. That said, I also very much understand the need for divorce in certain circumstances: my own parents are presently in the process of procurring a divorce and I frankly wish they had done this many years ago.
The idea that something physical has to be done to negate a marriage particularly irritates me. When we were younger, my father never raised a hand against my mother or siblings and I, but the emotional struggle in the house hurt far more than any slap he could have dealt. About 10 years ago it got to the point where the house we were living was no longer a home and I actually preferred staying late at school to going back. The end result is that the people I live with haven't been a family in the real sense of the word in years, though it isn't for any lack of trying.
Despite being in a marriage without respect, tenderness, or any sense of comfort, my mother spent five years going to counselors with or without my father. The idea that you can't try everything or that you should never give up... when you are miserable every day and have been trying for years and there's no hint of change it is time to stop. An unhappy marriage hurts everyone involved - the spouses, their children, and even more distant relatives and friends.
Rivka's idea of not torturing herself and her children any further is the best description of the situation I've heard. My mother has said on multiple occasions that the physical side effects of the emotional trauma would literally have killed her if she waited any longer to admit defeat. I just can't possibly be vehement enough when I say that for my parents to not divorce would be the worst thing possible for either of them, as well as for my brothers who are still too young to leave the house.
You are more than entitled to believe that for you personally, divorce is wrong and unacceptable. But to claim that that holds true in every case... you honestly don't seem to have any idea of what you're talking about.
Posts: 1548 | Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:My mother has said on multiple occasions that the physical side effects of the emotional trauma would literally have killed her if she waited any longer to admit defeat
This is true of my grandmother who got divorced when my mom was still young. Her husband was a festering sickness in the family, made everyone suffer. She had serious health problems because of the stress he put her through. She lived in a mental institution for several years. He was constantly, sharply, cruelly critical of everything and everyone around him. He was just a caustic human being. No physical abuse, just emotional.
After the divorce she and my mom began to heal. Years later she found a kind, gentle, patient man to marry who healed the family further. Without his beautiful influence, my mother would have been a complete wreck and my grandmother probably would have suffered an early death. As it is, my mother carries deep childhood scars that still haunt her.
To this day, my blood-grandfather doesn't understand that he did anything wrong at all, and still loves my grandmother. He wishes they never divorced. To this day, he is not *really* a part of my family. I view my step-grandfather as far more my grandfather than he. It is sad for him, but that is the way it is.
There is no question in my mind that divorce was the best decision she could have made in those circumstances. I just don't know where I would be if it didn't happen.
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Since I like to beat dead horses on other marriage-related issues, I thought I'd chime in:
Having been raised in a single-parent family for most of my childhood, and having been around during both of my mother's divorces, I do agree that divorce is a tragic and damaging process. It is the big social lie that no-fault divorce and other attacks to marriage have little effect on our children. From personal experience, you can do your very best to shield and/or help your children weather the storm (and they can still succeed) but there is baggage one must overcome. Sometimes it takes a lifetime.
I do agree that 85% of divorces out there are due to selfish behavior, the prime motivator in most of our current social ills.
Having said that, I am also grateful that divorce IS available to those whose marriages have become so toxic that it does more damage to stay together. Though I believe repentance and forgiveness and change could probably occur in 99.9% of all households, sometimes one or both parties are too drunken with their own pride to make any headway.
In all those divorces I saw, from family and friends and so on, I can't think of any of them that couldn't have been fixed without dedication and behavioral change from one or both parties (including my own mother/father/stepfather).
It's a sad thing when so much unhappiness and harm could have been prevented by thinking about others before oneself.
Posts: 325 | Registered: Dec 2004
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