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Author Topic: I'm just the right size - or, the pregnancy thread
ketchupqueen
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(Maybe next time I should claim claustrophobia and see if they'll let me walk around outside.)
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ClaudiaTherese
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I always worried more about the seizures than the shoulders, but that's because I wasn't responsible for the babies until after they were delivered. [Smile] Shoulder dystocia was something for the OB-Gyns to worry about.

In residency, we had several normal-looking babies develop hypoglycemia secondary to the mother's diabetes during pregnancy. They seemed to be more prone to septic shock, too, although I don't know if that's a consistent thing.

---

Edited to add: Jeesh, enough with the doom and gloom! I'll stop. [Smile] I just meant to say that there are good reasons for the test, but if you don't want to do it, you can certainly talk to your own physician about it. A given person's risk level may be higher or lower than standard, just as ketchupqueen indicated.

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ClaudiaTherese
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kq, could you take a laptop and play some games or watch a downloaded movie?
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ketchupqueen
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I suppose. If my husband gets his laptop. And lets me borrow it. We don't have one yet.

That won't stop me from having to get up every two seconds to pull the kid(s) away from the (non-child-proofed) outlets, drag them out of the trash can, pull them away from the open rooms containing needles and poisonous substances left in unlocked drawers, and stop Bridey from walking up and poking, hitting, or tugging on strangers.

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Boon
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I wonder how upset my OB will be when I refuse it (and I will). I'm willing to buy a monitor (if he'll prescribe it) and regularly test my sugar myself, but I *will not* drink that stuff ever again. It makes me feel TOO AWFUL, and I usually fail the first one and pass the 3 hour anyway...so, maybe on the high side of normal?

Plus, I can't help but think that making a pregnant lady who normally has no more than a bite or two of chocolate to drink the equivalent of 2-5 candy bars in less than 5 minutes couldn't really be a great thing for her or the baby.

Again, I'm not opposed to testing, I just don't see how this could be better than regular monitoring like what my diabetic grandma does.

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ClaudiaTherese
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What a shame there isn't someone to babysit for you. I remember that being out where you are was hard in terms of social support. Your family lives far away and the two of you are pretty much on your own, right?
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ketchupqueen
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(The lab is right in the middle of a very nice shopping area. If I was allowed to walk, I could window shop while pushing them in the stroller for 45 minutes and be back and only have to wait 5 minutes for the draw. My first pregnancy, I was allowed to go out and walk around with my husband after they made it clear that I was not to eat or drink ANYTHING, even water. I promised to comply, and they let me go, warning me to get back on time or I'd have to do it over.)
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ketchupqueen
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Actually, my mom and dad are both in the area. But it's a logistical thing. Jeff may or may not be able to be with me, depending when they do the test. It's just a shame that I have to sit cooped up for an hour when I'm perfectly capable of keeping track of the time and not eating or drinking.
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divaesefani
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Around here, they send you home the appointment before the (1 hour) glucose test with the drink and instructions. Drink it an hour before you show up, and they draw your blood as soon as you get there. Sounds much nicer than what you have to go through, kq!
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ketchupqueen
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That sounds wonderful. I'd be totally willing to do that. But our doctor's office doesn't do the actual lab work, lab work is done through a contracted lab down the street. So I can see why they don't do it that way.
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ClaudiaTherese
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Boon, I think the oral glucose tolerance test is more sensitive than spot glucose measurements by fingerprick. That is, it picks up more cases where there might be problems than does the fingerstick method, even done repeatedly.

Blood sugar control is a funny thing. For people with diabetes in general, it doesn't seem to matter much what their spot checks show -- the real marker of problems is the 3-month test, the hemoglobin A-1c. There have been a lot of studies to show that the spot checks are far far less helpful in predicting outcomes than the Hgb A-1c. I think the OGTT is kind of like that.

--

ketchupqueen, I'm sorry things are so difficult for you and your family. I hope you work out something better for you with the lab than what happened before.

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ketchupqueen
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I hope so too. I am thinking of explaining what a hard time I have at the lab to my doc and asking if the test can be done at the hospital instead. (His office is on the hospital grounds, one building over from Emergency, all the surgical and recovery stuff, etc., and I know there is a lab in his building, on the first floor next to the pharmacy, because I've been there when Bridey had to have blood tests for jaundice two days after we were sent home. I can't think of any reason why my test couldn't be done in that much nicer lab.)
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Christine
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KQ -- when I did my diabetes test, they gave me the drink at the previous appointment and had me drink it at home exactly one hour before my appointment. So I didn't have to wait in a waiting room. I would hate to have to wait in the waiting room for an hour!
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ClaudiaTherese
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That sounds like a great solution.
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ketchupqueen
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I suppose if my doctor isn't willing or able to change the lab, I can also ask him to call and tell them to let me leave instead of making me wait in the waiting room. He's always willing to go to bat for his patients.
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Boon
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I guess my question then would be...if I did test positive, what exactly would they do? Tell me to watch my diet, exercise, and monitor with a finger-pricker, right? So why take the test if I'm willing to just act like it's positive?
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ClaudiaTherese
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If you tested positive on the OGTT, there would be a different nursing protocol for the newborn baby, you would have serial Hgb A1-c tests during the pregnancy, you would be more strictly monitored for pre-eclampsia, more detailed and frequent sonograms are recommended (and the fetus might get an intrauterine echocardiogram), you would be getting the more comprehensive "biphysical profiles" for fetal monitoring instead of the less detailed "non-stress tests," the normal ranges for glucose levels are adjusted (and you would be prescribed insulin at a different level than a non-pregnant woman -- a.k.a. "early aggressive treatment"), and so forth.

A whole lot of things change when someone is diagnosed with gestational diabetes mellitus.

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Boon
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[Wave] CT, have I told you recently how grateful I am to have you here, willing to answer questions and let us pick your brains? [Smile]

Okay, one more question: everything I've read says the OGTT should be done between 24-28 weeks. Well, because of the doctor's previous mistakes with my due date, I should be at 29 2/7 weeks at my next appointment, instead of the 25 5/7 he thinks I'll be at. Wouldn't that make a difference in the results?

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ClaudiaTherese
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It is nothing compared to having a tax expert. Nothing.

You think I'm exaggerating, but you are wrong. [Smile]

---

I think there is a nomogram to adjust the values for gestational dates, but I'm not sure. This isn't my area. (I knew I wanted to be a pediatrician when I did my OB-Gyn rotation and had to restrain myself to stay with the mother after the birth. Big people are complicated and scary! Babies make sense. I wanted to be with the baby.) My information about adult medicine is both rusty and outdated.

Are you in a comfortable enough relationship with your physician that you can ask about the dates issue, and ask if there are alternatives to the OGTT? Like I said, it's not my area, and I could be wrong. It's just that my training was pretty strict on these points, way back when.

I bet Theaca could field this much better than I could. You might consider a new thread with her name in the title?

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ketchupqueen
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This brocure from the NIH says that while it is usually done between 24 and 28 weeks, it can be done as early as 13 weeks, so I would guess that means it is not as time-sensitive as some other tests?
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ketchupqueen
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(I am getting some interesting things searching for information on gestational diabetes and the OGTT. For instance, a study showing that substituting 18 jelly beans was just as effective for the one hour GTT as that strange hyper-sugar drink, and was tolerated without side effects by all women in the study, as opposed to the drink, which did produce side effects! Wild!)
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Katarain
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I have to do my glucose test at my next appointment, about 3 weeks from now. I wasn't looking forward to the finger pricking (oh boy oh boy do I HATE that), but now I'm concerned about the glucola making me feel sick. That will suck.

My cousin had gestational diabetes. I thought it might be more common in overweight women, but she's always been thin--although she did gain a lot of weight with the pregnancy. Our mothers are twins, so I wonder if that means I'll have it, too. I've always been big, and I haven't gained much weight at all.

One of my doctors actually told me that it would be alright if I gained some weight--although my husband thinks the doctor only said that because he was in the room. [Smile] (Since maybe he gets a lot of women whose husbands give them a hard time about weight gain. My husband said he wanted to tell the doctor, don't worry, she was this size when I married her. [Big Grin] I thought it was funny.) The doctor I saw at my appointment before that one told me she'd like me to stay the same weight until the end of the pregnancy. I think I'll try to do that.

Anyway, back to gestational diabetes, my last gyno and I were pretty sure that I am Insulin Resistant. I wonder how that would affect my chances of having GD.

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ClaudiaTherese
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GDM is more common in certain groups of women (overweight, certain ethnicities, family history of others with it, etc.), but about 1/3 of the women who get it have no risk factors.

That is to say, ~1/3 of the women who develop gestational diabetes are of normal to low weight, have no family history of it, have no personal history of it, etc.

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Katarain
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I'm curious about whether those 1/3rd can sort of bring it on by their habits changing during pregnancy--eating more, exercising less, essentially gaining weight.

I'm not too worried about it personally, although I am quite overweight. If I have it, I'll just deal with it.

I feel like this pregnancy, so far, has been so normal and mild. I suppose it can get worse. Perhaps the bad stuff is saving up for a real bang when I give labor and it will be horrendously awful. (Which is why I won't rule out an epidural, although I'd rather go natural.)

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Katarain
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Hmm. This is interesting

quote:
In gestational diabetes, the pancreas is not at fault. Instead, the problem is in the placenta. During pregnancy, the placenta provides the baby with nourishment. It also produces a number of hormones that interfere with the body's usual response to insulin. This condition is referred to as "insulin resistance." Most pregnant women do not suffer from gestational diabetes, because the pancreas works to produce extra quantities of insulin in order to compensate for insulin resistance. However, when a woman's pancreas cannot produce enough extra insulin, blood levels of glucose stay abnormally high, and the woman is considered to have gestational diabetes.
from Health A to Z - Gestational Diabetes

quote:
Unlike type 1 diabetes, gestational diabetes is not caused by a lack of insulin, but by blocking effects of other hormones on the insulin that is produced, a condition referred to as insulin resistance.
from UV-Health System--Gestational Diabetes

It seems like gestational diabetes IS insulin resistance. So I guess I already have it. Still, I wonder how it would translate into pregnancy. I'm going to have to ask my doctor.

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Katarain
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According to an online chat with a doctor, having it already does increase my chances.

quote:
womenshealthADM: from angel: It is mentioned that the patient will have an abnormal glucose test. Is that regularly or on occasion? Can that include during pregnancy?

DrLisaFish: We know that insulin resistance is part of PCOS and many women with the syndrome will have impairment of glucose tolerance which is in between normal and diabetes. There is also a higher chance of developing diabetes, but not everyone with PCOS has abnormal glucose tolerance.

When a woman becomes pregnant, she needs to increase her insulin production to overcome the effects of placental hormones, and for women who already have insulin resistance there is a higher chance of gestational diabetes.

from PCOS Chat Transcript with Dr. Lisa Fish and Dr. Robert Jaffe

I think I'll have to research the recommended diet for someone with GD and go on it now, rather than waiting 3 weeks for the test.

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ClaudiaTherese
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Yes, GDM is insulin resistance during pregnancy, and a certain percentage of women who experience GDM will go on to develop Type II DM (loosely known as "insulin resistance," although there is probably more going on than that at the cellular level) outside of pregnancy.

Katarain, my husband was recently diagnosed with Type II, and we have modified our diet. He has controlled his diabetes solely through diet and exercise. I'll try to pull together the most useful things we found. Meanwhile, HelpGuide has information from the American Diabetes Association (great resource, very reliable) has a summary of information about diabetes that you might find helpful.

---

Edited to add: The area of most interest is "Glycemic Index," which indicates how high a particular food will spike your blood sugar after eating it. Some foods have more calories, but the raise in blood sugar is more of a gentle slope than a sharp peak (gentle, low slope is better). Generally simple carbohydrates eaten alone without fat or protein are the worst for you.

This means whole grain products, whole raw fruits, vegetables, legumes, nuts, and lean meats are best.

The worst foods are the "white foods": white bread, sugar, potatoes (! [Frown] ), white rice (especially sushi rice). However, if you are going to have "white food" sometimes, it's better to combine it with good fats and proteins to blunt the glycemic spike. For example, it's better to eat whole wheat bread than plain white bread, but you can make both choices healthier by having the bread with a little peanut butter or cheese. The white bread still isn't as good for you as the whole wheat, but it's better than eating it plain.

[ November 09, 2007, 10:31 AM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]

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Katarain
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I have known a lot of success on the "Insulin Resistance Diet," and my doctor approved my staying on it while I'm pregnant. I haven't been following it like I should, but I think I will start it up again. I imagine it would be beneficial for Gestational Diabetes as well.

Basically, the diet limits you to 30 grams of carbs in a 2-hour window, and you must eat protein with those carbs. (7 grams of protein for every 15 grams of carbs.) Protein, vegetables, unsweetened dairy, and some fruits are unlimited as long as you are genuinely hungry. Potatoes and corn are exceptions, and should be treated as regular carbs. You're encouraged to eat multiple small meals, or 3 meals with small snacks in between. Since I work, I very rarely go to the trouble of packing lunch AND snacks, so I'm usually on 3 meals a day anyway. I also don't count fiber in my carb total. And it also includes the 80/20 rule, which I like. If you follow the plan well 80% of the time, you can "cheat" 20% of the time.

It's really a lifestyle rather than a diet. It's easy to follow, too. Although I am definitely a carb-addict.

I'm not following it today. My lunch is pasta, with very little protein. I could cut down on the pasta portion and have a piece of chicken and it would be fine.

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Katarain
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I love whole wheat breads. And I found a bread that only has 5 net carbs per slice. It's Nature's Own Double Fiber bread. It also has 5 grams of fiber per slice. Even my husband will eat it because he wants to up his fiber intake. (It's not as good as really hearty whole grain whole wheat breads, but it's pretty good for the whole wheat that you're usually going to get at the grocery store.)

I don't know much about the glycemic index, but I have started to research it on and off. I think if I mixed it with the IR diet, so that I'm eating GOOD carbs, it would be a good thing. (And I guess technically I could have more than 30 grams of the GOOD carbs, but I'm not sure.)

I don't like white bread, so that's good. (Except for grilled cheese sandwiches and usually hot dog and hamburger buns--but those are easy to substitute for good wheat versions.)

Limiting potatoes makes me really sad, though. I love them. Pasta, too. But Barilla makes a pasta called Barilla Plus or Pasta Plus which has extra protein and is lower in carbs. It's good, too. Yay!

I miss peanut butter. I'm trying to abstain from peanuts until I'm done with pregnancy and breast feeding to give my child an edge on her odds of developing a peanut allergy. There's no history of a peanut allergy in my family, but I figure better safe than sorry, and if I can make this sacrifice now that might pay off later, then I'm going to do it. I have accidentally had peanuts a few times, but no more than a bite at a time. I just hope what I'm doing will help. But I know there are plenty of other protein options, like cheese, beans, meat, other nuts, etc.

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ClaudiaTherese
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We like the Barilla pastas, too! Pasta also has a lower glycemic spike if it's al dente instead of soft.

Sounds like you know a lot already. You might want to flag a thread for Tatiana, as she is very well-versed in all things diabetes, and she would be the one to give you pointers at this time.

Exercise is important, too. I won't tell you that you should exercise until I have gotten my own self in a regular routine, though. (*rueful)

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Katarain
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I had no idea about the al dente thing. I have to make our pastas soft, as it's easier for my husband to eat.

I scoured the net for information and bought a book on the insulin resistance diet when I realized that was very likely what I had.

I really like that site you linked to, though. I had an idea that insulin resistance was a precursor to type 2 diabetes, but I had never seen it in print before. I thought it was a could be thing, but I see now that it's a pretty serious possibility. I don't like that at all. It tells me that I have to be more stringent about regulating my Insulin Resistance now before it develops into Type 2.

I don't understand why I don't exercise. I've had two successful weight-loss periods in my life. The first one involved aerobic exercise 3 times a week (usually walking or using my air walker machine) and 2 times a week of weight training. It was very easy and made me feel great. And I lost a lot of weight. I wasn't on a diet, either, but the exercise did curb my appetite. The second time was on the Insulin Resistance diet, which also was easy.

Why don't I do the things I know can help me, when they're not even that hard?? It makes no sense. But I know I have to get rid of that mindset and do them anyway if I'm going to prevent having a more serious condition later on.

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Farmgirl
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quote:
Limiting potatoes makes me really sad, though.
When I was doing limited-carbs, I substituted sweet potatoes for when I wanted potatoes (still carbs, but not as starchy/as much). Since I love a good buttered sweet potatoe, it worked well.

I wish they were as inexpensive as potatoes, though! Eating low carb is not a poor person's diet.

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Katarain
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I really wish I liked sweet potatoes. On the IR diet, they're unlimited.
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DeathofBees
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Yummy veggie-intensive snack:

Vegetable Dippers

INGREDIENTS
cooking spray
2 medium sweet potatoes, peeled and grated
1/2 onion, diced
2 medium carrots, grated
1 cup broccoli, grated (peel the stems and grate them, too)
1 cup cauliflower, finely chopped
1 cup spinach, finely chopped
1/2 tsp bouillon powder
2 eggs, beaten
1/2-3/4 cup flour

PROCEDURE
Preheat oven to 375 F. Coat a baking sheet with cooking spray and set aside. In a large bowl, combine veggies. Mix in bouillon, egg, and flour. Spoon mixture into hands and form into individual patties 1/4-1/2 inch thick. Add additional egg and flour if veggies are not binding together to form patties. Place on baking sheet and bake for 15-20 minutes on each side or until edges are crispy. Serve immediately with low-fat ranch, ketchup, salsa, hummus, or your favorite dip.

All this talk about sweet potatoes reminded me of these. They're even good reheated in the oven later. Mmmmmmmm.

Edited for spelling error.

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ketchupqueen
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quote:
I wasn't looking forward to the finger pricking (oh boy oh boy do I HATE that)
Finger prick? It's always been a blood draw for me.
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ClaudiaTherese
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Finger prick is what you do at home, and it is what is done for routine draws in a diabetes clinic. Often one-time lab results (such as the OGTT, but sometimes even just a simple blood glucose level) are done as a venous draw.
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ketchupqueen
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I was thinking this morning about the test (I only have 2 more appointments before my doc's going to want to do it, I think. Maybe 3, but probably 2.) I realized that I can just refuse to stay when they tell me not to leave. If I come back 50 minutes later and they refuse to do the second draw, I can have them call my doctor. If they threaten not to complete the test as I leave, I can call my doctor then, and have him call and blow them up. (I intend to clarify with my doctor beforehand that I know there is no medical reason to keep me there and that it is personally difficult, and that I don't intend to stay and wait the whole hour.) That's something I know he won't have a problem with.
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Katarain
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No. They told me it would be a finger prick. I don't know why they do it that way.

Although, an at home glucose test is painless (with the machine we have at home, anyway). The finger prick tests I hated were when I was a kid and they would squeeze the heck out of my finger. THAT hurt! But testing a little drop of blood? No problem.. although I do get squeamish waiting for the prick. (I'm squeamish now just typing about it.)

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ClaudiaTherese
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It just depends on the the eqipment available and the training of the staff. All labs can do venipunctures, because most blood tests are from venipunctures. Any given lab may or may not do fingerpricks, but most diabetes clinics (where they are set up to deal with dozens of patients with diabetes at a time) usually do fingerpricks, although they aren't set up for venipunctures.
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Katarain
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They took blood from my arm at my first visit, so I know they're capable. It is curious. I would much rather have them take it from my arm than my finger.
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ClaudiaTherese
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You could call and ask. Most people prefer fingerpoke, so they might assume you do. A phone call to ask for the other in advance might make a difference for you.
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ketchupqueen
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I am having incredible deja vu with this conversation. Has someone said this before? (I also prefer venipuncture to finger prick.)
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Mama Squirrel
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I am absolutely convinced that exercise is the reason I did not have GD with pregnancy #3. We joined the gym about 5 months before we got pregnant. I continued working out (fewer days and less strenuous) through the end of the 8th month. It was so nice not having to do the diabetic diet again.

Other than the daily testing, the doctors didn't treat me any different because of the GD diagnosis. No extra u/s or anything. They didn't even do an u/s after I spent the night in the hospital having contractions at 33 weeks with Mooselet. I spent the rest of the pregnancy on bed rest, but the doctor said I didn't need another u/s. Knowing what I know now (with all of his problems), I wish I had demanded another u/s. I am sure they would have seen at least one of his problems then, and they might have noticed that I had low amniotic fluid.

Oh well, hindsight is 20/20.

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ketchupqueen
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That probably depends a lot on the doctors you have. I have had doctors who dismissed stuff-- "Oh, it's going away, so we don't need to do any more tests to find out what caused it." Then there's the doctor I have now (and am never ever leaving), whose attitude is, "If you're not comfortable with what's going on, neither am I. Let's see what we can do to find out more about what's causing it."
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ClaudiaTherese
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The variation in practice is remarkable. I can only say that where I have been trained (U Illinois in Urbana-Champaign, U Wisconsin in Madison, and UBC in Vancouver -- all teaching hospitals, obviously), GDM was a big deal. There was also always a pediatric resident at the deliveries of infants of diabetic mothers, even if the mothers and babies seemed perfectly fine throughout.
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Liz B
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Wow--thanks for all of the info, EVERYONE.

It was especially interesting to hear about the insulin resistance diet--I lost a LOT of weight on the South Beach diet a few years ago (& kept most of it off, until getting pregnant!), and it uses the glycemic index. That's why I was pretty sure I was already mostly eating the right kinds of foods (minus the ice cream, of course) [Smile] .

I'm not sure if the lab will let me leave to walk around or not. I'll call my doctor to check.

And, as for blood draws...I have gotten over my squeamishness about THAT since getting pregnant. A few years ago I got faint when a nurse took my blood...I don't have TIME for that anymore. [Roll Eyes] In addition to all of the 'normal' blood draws, I've had to do 2 24-hour urine collections (and boy, THAT'S fun), which they also wanted blood for, plus I'm Rh-negative and had to get a Rhogam treatment just this week. Add to that the 3-hour glucose test, and...

So in case anyone is counting (I most certainly am), I had various blood tests that took place on 10/13, 10/28, 11/3, 11/6, and I can look forward to multiple draws on 11/16.

Ah well. I also have a sonogram again next Wed. (I get them regularly to monitor fetal growth, because of my risk for preeclampsia), which I actually AM looking forward to. Yay baby! [Smile]

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PSI Teleport
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"A month ago or so there was a big deal in the news here about babies switched in the hospital and discovered after 10 months."

Woah. I just read this! Can you imagine having a child for ten months and then having to give it up? I don't know if I could do that!

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ketchupqueen
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I honestly don't know how the parents didn't notice.

But then, our children tend to be pretty distinctive looking at birth; both so far have had my husband's brachiocephalic head.

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Lissande
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Apparently they haven't switched them back yet but are in contact with each other. Basically both sets of parents would prefer to have both children - understandable. Also apparently they were switched almost immediately, so the parents maybe only got one good look at them in the first place and later dismissed any oddities in the euphoria of new parenthood.

I told my mom about this case and she said I was the only baby born in the hospital that day so not to worry. [Big Grin] It IS true that I have never looked like anyone in the family...

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ketchupqueen
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Well, I mean, the moment the baby is out of me my husband is usually over snapping pictures. I guess I find it odd others wouldn't have some kind of record to compare it to.

But then, in my experience, one of us is with the baby all the times, except if I send her to the nursery for a shower or whatever. So that's different right there.

Another argument for rooming in...

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