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Author Topic: Heroes: II
Lyrhawn
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Given the comics, and his 400 year search for another immortal, I wouldn't be surprised.

Besides, it's not like there's no precedent.

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Itsame
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Can you link me to the comic of this 400 year search?
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Itsame
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" * It is unclear how Peter can scar since he has absorbed Claire's spontaneous regeneration. Writers Joe Pokaski and Aron Coleite said about Peter's scar, "First, it is not a mistake, Peter can regenerate, but he still has the scar. Secondly, we'll show you how later on in the series. We promise." "
That is from Heroes Wiki.

Could the bout with Hiro be how?


Edit: I accidentally wrote hero instead of Hiro...

[ November 28, 2007, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: JonHecht ]

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Lyrhawn
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quote:
Originally posted by JonHecht:
Can you link me to the comic of this 400 year search?

The NBC website has them, but usually I go to Wikipedia where I think they are easier to find. The most recent two comics show Adam Monroe in Revolutionary War era America as a mercenary working for the British. He describes himself as a God who can live forever, and he's searching for another like him. He thinks he's found someone like that, but it turns out he's actually a guy who can create endless multiples of himself, and Monroe sets about an extremely long task of killing them all, until he suspects he's actually the one being hunted. It ends with the doubles knocking him off a cliff and he questions what he's doing. So, he might have called off the search after that, but it means he's been looking for at least some part of 200 years.

The comics are pretty cool actually. If the show ended and the comics continued, I'd actually consider buying them.

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Lisa
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They actually just put out a collection of the Heroes online comics.
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Christine
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What I'd really like to know is....Is this it for Heroes? Are we done after Monday night? Or is the show coming back...either in January or next fall?
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Lyrhawn
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Where have you heard anything that indicates it won't be coming back next fall?

I think when it comes back depends entirely on the writers' strike. When they're done, the show will be back on. At the very least they'll finish out the season, which NBC has already put in a full order for, and if they finish it out as strong as it has been lately, I'd forecast a ratings bump from the relatively small dropoff that's been seen this season.

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Christine
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Well, next episode is being advertised as the "Heroes Finale" -- not the season finale or a last episode before a winter break...the finale. It looks like they plan to tie up all the major plot threads very quickly (a little took quickly...they really could use more time to play out properly). I have also heard unsubstantiated rumors that the show is not coming back at all. That's why I'm trying to find out the truth...if NBC knows or is sharing the truth with us, that is. [Smile]
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Lyrhawn
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Hm. This is the first I'm hearing of it, and I'm not at all worried by the advertising. Frankly if it was the SERIES finale, I think they'd make a special point of advertising it, as most every show I've ever seen has done for their finales.

Tim Kring in interviews has said that this will be the finale for this season, and was rewritten specifically for that purpose. I think they're looking more for a soft reset, and to move onto the next plot arc.

Could you link to the rumors? I'm curious as to what they are saying, but still, I doubt it. It had the best debut for an NBC show EVER last year and was their top rated show last season, and it's ratings have dropped off 15% this year from last year, but for a show that had more than 14 million regular viewers, that's not ridiculously bad. A show with even 13 million viewers in an established audience I'd think is an automatic renewal. Besides, international ratings actually add several million more viewers, and DVD sales are bringing in mega dollars.

They aren't going anywhere.

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Christine
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I have no links...the rumors I have heard were in real life. I browsed the Heroes message boards and people were asking when it was coming back, but with no conclusive answer.
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Lyrhawn
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That is because of the strike.
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solo
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I heard before this season started that the Generations storyline was only ever intended to be the first half (10 episodes or so) of the season so I don't think that this finale is indicative of any plans of cancellation. They did scrap the Origins spin-off (planned mid-season replacement) due to the writers strike though.
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Carrie
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That was fantastic.
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Blayne Bradley
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Awesome.
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Carrie
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Also, Hiro wins the season.
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scholar
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But doesn't Hiro win every episode he is in?
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Chris Bridges
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So, Adam is still alive for the foreseeable future and can return -- and he'll be peeved, and we didn't actually see Nikki die. Wonder where they plan to go with these characters.

Best part of the ep: Hiro and Peter actually talking, at least a little bit, before getting violent. Still don't know why they didn't just both jump to, say, an outdoor cafe in 1928 and talk it over.

And isn't Peter's girlfriend gone now? He jumped to a future, with her, and left her there. Then he changed that future. So where is she? Or when? My best guess, using this show's previous time jumping as a guide, is that she'll suddenly appear in a non-diseased NY street 10 years from now. So maybe Peter can go get her.

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BlackBlade
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Some Thoughts:

Anybody notice that Sylar was trying to grab a can of spinach at the end of the episode. [Big Grin]

Also did anybody else cheer when that room containing Niki exploded?

Why didn't Peter just walk through the bolted door instead of trying to rip it off its' hinges?

Won't Adam die of starvation if not asphyxiation in that coffin? Is there room enough for Hiro to get them both inside and then leave?

Why is it that when people want to kill Sylar they have to yell out his name and THEN attack? I mean do they feel obligated to give him a chance to defend himself?

Did NOT see the whole, "Nathan gets two in the chest" deal. I can't believe an assassin could do that in a police station and then just casually walk out without anyone even looking at him.

So we are basically back to Season 1? Sylar goes around killing heroes and finding ones we've yet to see and gets more powerful?

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pfresh85
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I didn't expect the gunshots, but I expected Nathan would be killed before he could reveal anything. I somewhat expected Elle to go, trying once more to please Daddy by getting rid of any possible leaks.

I just wish we had a set date for Heroes return. I liked the ending, but it's like Season 1 in that it left me wanting more.

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Rakeesh
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Unfortunately, Hiro does not win the season, because once again his do-gooding ways have royally screwed the rest of, well, everyone.

For one thing, burying Adam in a public cemetary. That's just freakin' stupid. Take him out into the Nevada desert where Fosset was lost, and spend three weeks in stopped time digging a pit thirty feet deep, and then bury him in a ceramic coffin, which won't show on metal detectors. Barring that, drop him into a volcano, or hitch a ride to the space station and drop him, or just cut off is head, or at least stick a knife into his brain.

I was surprised at how many of the cliffhangers, weren't. Peter Petrelli can easily save Nathan Petrelli, and in fact it would totally fit into their original plan of a press conference. Open Nathan's wrist, open Nathan's major not-instantly healing artery, BAM. Healed.

Totally forgot about the wall-walking thing, heh.

I wonder how long it'll take people to re-find Sylar? They've got Molly.

Loved the spinach thing. I would've liked Sylar much more had he said, "Strong to the finich."

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Lyrhawn
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Loved the ending tonight. I think it would have been cooler if Nathan had gotten the chance to reveal the secret to the world, but I bet that'll happen soon enough anyways.

I can see Nathan being healed, but I think Nikki is gone for good. Adam is likely gone for quite some time, but I don't know if that will kill him or not. His body can regenerate from damage, but on some level, doesn't he still need the basic building blocks of life (food, water, air) for his cells to do the things they do? I don't know. But I imagine if he ever gets out again, he's going to be PISSED.

I liked that Elle seems to be on a path to redemption, that Noah was reunited with his family, that Nikki died, that Peter finally saw the error of his ways and united with Nathan and Matt. I liked pretty much everything about this episode. Sylar is back, but with Molly on their side, information seemingly on their side, and being much more united, I'd say things are totally different now.

I think it ended strongly, and I'm really looking forward to Season 2.5 or 3.0 or whatever we get

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Elmer's Glue
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I don't think Peter's blood can heal Nathan.
I loved the Spinach thing, too bad Sylar didn't get the joke and say a cool line.
Good riddance to Nikki.
I'm really pissed that Peter didn't save Caitlyn.
I thought it would have been great if while Peter is trying to rip off the door Adam says something like "while we're young..."
It made sense that Adam didn't seem that angry about Hiro. 400 years seems like the grudge would go away. Of course now he is going to be super pissed.

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EmpSquared
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Saw the shots coming. Saw it coming the moment Nathan formulated the plan in the vault. Something about the way they were building the momentum made me think they were going to hit the brakes pretty hard.

And I don't think Sylar's going to be handled the same way as in season 1. He's either going to crave power and become dangerous on a global scale, or the writers are going to do something much harder and seek redemption for his character.

Nathan and Nikki are both dead. If they revive Nathan after Noah and Maya, it would lessen the impact of a character dying on the show. Not that they treat deaths differently in comic books, where characters resurrect all the time, but it's still a comic book-influenced TV show. Not a comic.

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LadyDove
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I think that Nikki is gone for good. Between the explosion and the lack of an antidote, I think that the writers cut off her path of re-entry. I expected her to be cut. Her character had only physical abilities. Without the angst of the struggle between good and bad and the lack of a love interest, her character had become pretty boring IMO. Mica's cousin can fill-in on the physical ability side and is in a position to nurture Mica.
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Elmer's Glue
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Noah got shot in the eye. That's pretty much a guarantee that the bullet went in his brain. He was healed, so I think Adam and Claire would come back too.
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Lyrhawn
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Yeah, that whole bullet directly into the brain thing sort of threw me too. Adam said the only thing to stop them was having their heads cut off, but now a bullet to the brain does it?

Maybe it does, and Noah wasn't shot direct enough.

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Itsame
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I don't think you understand. When someone with that power is shot in the head all of their blood, the thing which allows them to heal, evaporates.
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Elmer's Glue
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Then how is their blood able to heal other people? It made sense back when they could only heal themselves, but not anymore.
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LadyDove
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Peter was "dead" in season 1 while the piece of glass was in his brain.
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Mucus
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1) So the male twin died randomly to generate angst and the female twin got shot and healed. Wee. That was so worth it...

2) The ending is a bit odd, so is the gunshot supposed to intimidate them from speaking out? Presumably the assassin is from the company due to the camera in the vault and the phone call, but how does that stop much? Both Peter and Matt still have abilities...

3) I think the head thing would not be too difficult to rationalise. Something like, Claire was still in her "dead" state with a branch in her head. Presumably the bullet in the head would put either Adam or Peter in that state after which they could be finished off using more conventional means.

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AvidReader
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Or Mama Patrelli was saving her boy. Maybe a bullet in the head will stop him but allow him to heal.

I'm not thrilled with Noah going back to the Company, but I think it was a dumb move on Bob's part. He may have just handed Noah the key to the Company's destruction. I loved Elle's reaction to Mohinder saying she'd saved them all. I have hope for her next season.

Overall, I'm glad I watched this and will catch Tin Man on rerun tonight. It was actually worth it. Hooray writers!

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0Megabyte
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Can't wait for Volume III: Villians.

Should be interesting.

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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
Yeah, that whole bullet directly into the brain thing sort of threw me too. Adam said the only thing to stop them was having their heads cut off, but now a bullet to the brain does it?

Not a bullet. A shotgun blast. Obliterate the head and there's no coming back.
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cmc
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My first thought at the end of the show last night was - this adds a whole new dimension to 'Can't wait 'til '08'. *insert mischievous grin here*

Niki probably will be gone - leaving Micah room to be pissed that both of his parents are now gone. He'll hold on to the medal forevah and will stay with his cousin. They'll be best buds 'til the end of time and someday some villain will come and try to hurt her and Micah will get really mad (maybe even have to come out of retirement after he's settled down with a fam, pissing off his wife who will no doubt know the secret and making his kids think he's even more cool than they already did) and have to come to her rescue. Shoot - it might even be red van driving dinkleberry. Good-bye, Niki - Hello, Crime-Fighter Extraordinaire Micah.

Mucus - you made me chuckle with that first point. Quality. ; )

Pretty sure Nathan's gone. Petrelli for President will have to wait a few more years... Peter'll probably be the uber-tortured guy (as if he weren't already) and pull a Rogue and try to get rid of his powers (which will only work for a few years, of course, and then he'll probably just go be a teacher somewhere, showing people how to properly use their powers and how to tell when someone's absolutely just saying what they know you want to hear as a means to their own deviant end) because he's pissed at him self for falling for Adam's chicanery. It'll all work out in the end for Pete, I do believe.

Adam's done. Hiro's got his ancestors watching over him. Buh-bye, evil mean self-serving nobody even LIKES you anyway jerk of the centuries. Ha-ha Hiro got your butt. Rest in Torment!! That's what you get when you try to be God.

Sylar is not a nice man at all, IMHO. I think he'll be the guy that's constantly loosing his powers and searching for the blood that will get them back. He'll probably wind up destroying himself before too long, though.

That's about all I've got for now in terms of ideas on the Heroes.

~cmc

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JoeH
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That was a great show. Glad to see confirmation that Mama Petrelli is a really, really bad person. Although Mohinder still annoys me, I liked Mohinder's observation that the Company must have injected Sylar. I found it odd that Nikki would be the one physically saving Mica's cousin. I suspected something might happen to prevent the guys from exposing the Company, but had no idea it would be two bullets to the chest.
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sylvrdragon
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I'm fairly certain that is was Noah that shot Nathan. The shooter turns his head twice as he was walking away and it appears that he has glasses on. Unfortunately, Winamp doesn't have a frame-by-frame function, so I had to rely on pausing at the right times, but I would almost bet on it being Noah.

Words cannot express how happy I was when Hiro teleported in his fray with Peter. Several times even. It brought a tear of joy to my eye. I agree that he could have found a better place to store Adam. As big of a nerd as Hiro is, I'm really disappointed that he doesn't up with better ways to do things. Of course... if I had Hiro's power, I would probably just keep putting Adam in weird places and seeing how long it takes him to get back; like the top of Everest, bottom of the ocean, middle of the Sahara, Antarctica, etc.

Why must Peter get dumber ever episode? First off, as was stated above, why didn't he just walk through the door? I mean wtf. He didn't actually NEED Adam for ANYTHING once he knew where the vault was. It was a simple solution to ALL of the problems. All Peter had to do was let Adam take him to the vault and say "Everyone tells me not to trust you, so I'll take care of the virus from here", then walk through, destroy it, come out to a raving Adam and realize that he had been duped.

Maybe, just maybe that was what they were originally going to do before they were forced to modify it for the season finale. Maybe they just needed a reason for Nathan to be caught on camera talking about taking out the company for the sake of ending the season. I'll admit that would have a bit harder to pull off in a believable way if they'd gone with MY version, but this version cost Peter what little respectability he had left (from the fans).

Also note that Sylar may very well have Illusion girl's power now. I have a theory that Sylar's power is actually just the ability to alter his own brain; and the reason for the whole head-choppy thing is so he can see how it works with his own eyes. As such, it may very well be possible that he could still LEARN powers while he had the virus, just not USE them. Point being, if he DOES have the power of illusion, then he might be able to throw off Molly's ability seeing as how she needs a visual of the person to find them. Even if it goes through that, Sylar can likely lose them in a crowd if Molly isn't WITH them.

Which brings me to my next question. Does Molly recognize Sylar? He is the boogey man after all. The one that killed her parents and that Suresh and Matt promised her was gone. I'm rather surprised she wasn't more afraid than she showed considering that he once came after her. Also, I wonder if Sylar recognized HER.

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Rakeesh
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Re: Noah and still working to destroy the Company...

I just don't know. So far as we can tell, Noah's goals have now been completely met. I say 'goals' when it should be 'goal', it's not really a list. So long as his family is protected and the Company remains able to believably threaten them if he starts going off the reservation, I predict Noah will toe the party line with his usual degree of successful ruthlessness.

I don't see how Sylar's power could possibly involve his eyes. You don't understand brain chemistry by looking at a brain, unless his power includes some sort of magic eyesight.

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jeniwren
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I think it ended as well as could be expected, given how stupid last week's episode was.

But I was not happy that they've set Sylar up to be the villian again next season. As a bad guy, he's DULL. Give me Serenity's villian any day, where the tension is in obsessive belief in something bigger and better than himself. That makes the villian someone you can almost understand and see as just a guy with a fatal flaw. You almost want to root for him.

And I never did get Adam. He felt THAT betrayed by a KISS? Uh, seems a little excessive to me. And I didn't like that Hiro was that bent on revenge. What he did to Adam was pretty hideous.

Should be an interesting 2.5 season. [Smile]

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Itsame
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So basically you are saying that he killed his daughter's father?


" He felt THAT betrayed by a KISS?"

Uh, you know. The moral values were different back then, that was like Hiro making love to her in front of him. Ya know.

"What he did to Adam was pretty hideous."

Adam needed to be taken care of, and Hiro said that he can't kill anyone. That seemed like the only possible method.

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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by JonHecht:
So basically you are saying that he killed his daughter's father?


" He felt THAT betrayed by a KISS?"

Uh, you know. The moral values were different back then, that was like Hiro making love to her in front of him. Ya know.

There's that, yes. But it was a lot more than that, I think. Adam was actually looking up to Hiro as a role model. For all that he was flip with him, he must have seen Hiro as his own personal zen master. And then Hiro kissed the woman whom Hiro himself had said belonged with Adam. Huge betrayal, there.
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Glenn Arnold
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quote:
I don't see how Sylar's power could possibly involve his eyes. You don't understand brain chemistry by looking at a brain, unless his power includes some sort of magic eyesight.
Sylar has said repeatedly "I see how it works." How he sees it is left to question, but it's clear that he learns his new abilities, rather than merely acquiring them. And the issue of healing coming from the brain also indicates that these abilities are somehow learned. I wonder, if Sylar wanted to, could he teach any of the heros to learn different abilities? It makes sense to me that all these abilities are a result of the same mutation.

I thought it was appropriate that Sylar "shot up" like an addict while lying in an alleyway. Yes I think Noah shot Nathan. I also think Hiro is horrified at what he did to Adam, and may do something to rectify it, thus releasing Adam again.

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Lyrhawn
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Tim Kring has said before that Sylar eats the brains.
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BandoCommando
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quote:
Originally posted by sylvrdragon:
I'm fairly certain that is was Noah that shot Nathan. The shooter turns his head twice as he was walking away and it appears that he has glasses on. Unfortunately, Winamp doesn't have a frame-by-frame function, so I had to rely on pausing at the right times, but I would almost bet on it being Noah.

As soon as I saw Nathan crumple from bullet wounds, I thought that Noah was the one who made the shots. I said to my wife, "Noah shot him...just wait for the reveal!" Little did I know that we wouldn't get absolute confirmation of this until who knows when. I was expecting it to be around 30 seconds.

Much of my thoughts echo those of previous posters. Let me add that I was incredibly frustrated when Peter confronted Adam about his true intentions and Peter didn't just...say...read his mind.

Ah well.

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Christine
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Oh please let Nikki be permanently dead!!!! [Smile] [Smile] [Smile] [Smile]

I cheered when girl twin died, but then she came back, so now I'm not convinced anyone is really dead. I'm especially not convinced about Nathan, since Peter's blood can cure him and is readily available. Not that Nathan dying is a deal breaker, but he was just starting to become a real good guy.

I liked what they did with Elle. I thought they were just going to make her another random psycho but she's really transformed and even has the potential for good.

Adam is DEFINITELY coming back and man will he be PISSED! I think that's about the dumbest thing Hiro has ever done. But Hiro still kicks butt!

Sigh...Syler is back. Did anyone doubt it? That guy isn't even that smart. I don't get it.

I thought Claire wanting to tell the world was REALLY stupid and then Nathan went to do it...guess it runs in the family? [Smile]

I did manage to feel bad for the kid -- whatshisname? Nikki's son. I definitely wanted Nikki to die but he's minus two parents now.

All in all, a pretty good episode that wrapped up the season better than i expected. Not perfect, but good.

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Lyrhawn
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quote:
Sigh...Syler is back. Did anyone doubt it? That guy isn't even that smart. I don't get it.
He might not have raw intelligence like some people, but I've yet to see anyone on the show exhibit more guile and cunning than him. He's a master manipulator.

Besides, they still haven't introduced the new bad guy yet, they need a segue villain.

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Rakeesh
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He's really not, though. He's just fortunate in his enemies. I mean, seriously, there's been at least a half-dozen times I can think of where the fact that the people after him were a bunch of chumps is the only thing that saved his freaky eyebrow ass.

Noah, in particular. A-list in terms of ruthlessness and cleverness, and it was orders from the top that saved Sylar, and nothing else.

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Papa Moose
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I usually don't post here, because by the time I watch the show the conversation has moved well beyond it (or onto the online comics, which I've never looked at). But I saw something and haven't seen it mentioned.

How many of the things in that vault have been referenced before? I ask because I noticed the squiggle-bladed knife in the vault that was in the hand of the superhero (ur-Monica) on the cover of the comic. I didn't pay much attention to what else was in the vault (except the brain -- was it real and will Sylar eventually find this and will it be majorly problematic?) -- did anyone else notice stuff in there?

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Lyrhawn
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quote:
Originally posted by Rakeesh:
He's really not, though. He's just fortunate in his enemies. I mean, seriously, there's been at least a half-dozen times I can think of where the fact that the people after him were a bunch of chumps is the only thing that saved his freaky eyebrow ass.

Noah, in particular. A-list in terms of ruthlessness and cleverness, and it was orders from the top that saved Sylar, and nothing else.

Okay, I'll give you that, he HAS been saved by luckily stupid enemies, but he's still good, villain good anyways, at manipulating people.

PM -

I DID see some of the stuff in there, but I can't recall off the top of my head seeing any of it mentioned. I'm waiting for a list to pop up online. This is what fanboys are for [Smile]

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AvidReader
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I saw the playing cards and hoped for a wild moment that we'll get a Gambit character next season.

So does this leave Mama Petrelli and Bob as the only original Heroes, or do you think there will be more? I'm short 5 names, unless they showed up in the comics.

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erosomniac
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quote:
Originally posted by Christine:
What I'd really like to know is....Is this it for Heroes? Are we done after Monday night?

We can only hope.
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