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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Battlestar Galactica Season 2 discussion thread (Page 4)

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Author Topic: Battlestar Galactica Season 2 discussion thread
mackillian
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[Eek!]

Wow.

Holy. Frack. Wow.

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Theaca
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[Smile]
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rCX
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[Big Grin]
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Occasional
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BEST SHOW ON TV! I could go into detail, but you really should learn this on your own.
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tmservo
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Really good ep. The bit about shooting civilians.. JEEZ! Yeah, I agree with the president, this is a one-blow fight; strike first, or not at all.
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fil
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If this has been brought up on here before I apologize but has there been a discussion comparing this show (which was awesome tonight, by the way) to Mormonism? I found some discussion about this in relation to the old series but the new series seems to have hints of it. Or am I just seeing things? [Big Grin] If this is an offensive topic, I totally understand and will get back to the more imporant part...holy moley!

Amazing switches...Lee is the rebelious one and Starbuck is all "Don't bother me, I have a job, deal with it" and Adama is unsure about violence (initially) and the President is all "you have to kill her." I laughed, like Adama, when I heard her say that and slowly my smiled faded as I realized she was dead serious. My little gang that watches this together had a lot of theories of how tonight was going to look and we all got fooled. I can only suspect our suspicions about next week will be equally wrong.

Any predictions?

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mackillian
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I can't see the President as a blonde, either.
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Occasional
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fil, aside from using plot devices from the older shows that were already steeped in LDS lore, I am hard pressed to see any connections.
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Carrie
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Agreed. I am in love with the show. By me, it can do no wrong. My new goal is to convert the masses to also watch it.

As for tonight... WOW. I think my favourite scene was, surprisingly enough, when Lee went to visit Helo and Chief... and then almost smirked at Kara when he told her about the visit. It was almost like he was saying "Yeah, well, you may now have the equivalent of my old job, but at least I visit my friends." I guess I thought it rather poetic. I think it also showed, to a lesser extent, how Lee can now inspire the entire crew, whereas Kara just takes their money in card games. I also think Lee is the hottest piece of manhood to grace the television screen in many moons. [Big Grin]

Cain is evil. Nothing more to it. And I love her XO. I really really like the guy, if only because he's Mr. Exposition. And he can perhaps match Tigh drink-for-drink.

Now that I think of it... the promo commercials they showed tonight throughout SciFi Friday were awesome. Like the one where Kat decks Starbuck, and where they're using the defibrillator on Lee, and Roslin's flashbacks (ie, where she's looking healthy), and Starbuck's visiting with Boomer... these ten episodes are going to go by far too quickly.

Oh, and I missed Gaeta tonight. There should be more about dear old Felix.

And finally: If the spoilers I read months ago are right, next week's episode will be even more amazing than tonight's. Possible? Barely.

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TheTick
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I think Cain's XO is the key to everything right now. I'm hoping that Starbuck would still shoot Cain even after the 'Let's return to Caprica' speech. I don't think the XO will be able to kill Adama, he already seems to feel guilty over the civilian deaths (and of his predecessor).

Too bad they can't see the other Cylon models on the Resurrection ship.

I heard someone speculate that President Roslin is a cylon recently. Before last night's episode I dismissed it. Just the way she talked while she and Adama were alone toward the end...unnerved me. I still don't think she is one but I'm no longer sure of it.

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mackillian
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If Roslin is a Cylon, they're really screwed. (Taken from Adama saying to Roslin, "If I'm a Cylon, you're really screwed.")

I think from Roslin's POV, Caine is actually a threat to the entire human race at this point. There's no point in executing people left and right when you've only got, what, 50,000 people left? Not the time to be killing folks. If the prison transport ship had hooked up with the Pegasus, Tom Zarek and his group would all have been dead. Dead dead dead.

I think once Caine's XO is on the Galactica, he won't do it. Why? Because he'll be on Galactica and out of Caine's "If you don't obey my orders, I'll shoot you" regime. Hell, he could even ask Adama for asylum. As for Starbuck, she'll at least attempt to do what Adama asks of her.

quote:
I also think Lee is the hottest piece of manhood to grace the television screen in many moons.
Why yes, yes he is.
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larisse
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So most of us, and by "us" I mean the Jatraqueras and at least three, agree about Lee Adama/Jamie Bamber. He is a damn fine man.

I am wondering about Kara, though. Wasn't the abuse she experienced as a child from her mother? I think Caine is someone very much like Kara's mother. A strong woman in the military who had certain ideas of how best to run her military/family. As much abuse as she had as a child, I think Kara hero-worshipped her mother. She wanted to matter to her. I think it will be a struggle for Kara to go through with the whole plan. Caine has a hold on her with the whole idea of going back to Caprica and with this resemblance to her mother. Caine is a very charismatic leader, just as Adama is. They are so different in their leadership styles and what their end results for that leadership produces, yet within the last five minutes, we saw them both setting similar plans in motion that will end in some sort of bloodshed. Both trusted their closest subordinate, and yet, Adama wants Kara to think about what he is asking of her, while Caine's plan is an order to be carried out to its fullest length. (This seems to include taking out the whole CIC, if need be. Adama just wants Caine out of the way.)

I agree that Kara will attempt to shoot Caine. I am just not sure she will be able to do it though. If she does do it, it may send Kara into a strange character arc. Then again, if she doesn't, I wonder if Lee takes it upon himself. (I love what Adama said about Lee. It shows he trusts him. The only reason he didn't ask Lee, in my opinion, was that he knew Kara is the only one who can get close enough to Caine to carry out the plan.)

One last thing, Caine is one scary mother. Her enjoyment of Six's alter being beaten is horrifying, and what she did to the civilian ships, especially having an example in Adama, is unconscionable.

I cannot wait to see next week's ep.

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Occasional
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What I like about Cain is how she shows the human side of Adama's XO. We all were supposed to hate him, but we find out through Cain that he only did what he did because of events out of his control or leadership abilities. Cain is truely terrible and enjoys what the XO even finds horrible.
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TheTick
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I'm desperately trying to avoid spoilers...I already read something about what happens in the final episode of the season (which is going to kick a$$ if it's true). Is it Friday yet?
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T_Smith
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It desperately trying not to shout spoilers on this thread, as well.
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fil
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I think Caine's XO is kind of at risk, though, because he has to take her Marines with him. Sure, he gets to pick them but there is a good chance they are more loyal to Caine than to the XO (whom I also really like). I hope that in the fallout of this that some of the intereseting Pegasus folks stay behind (assuming that the show can't have a long-term relationship with another Battlestar).
I don't think that Kara will be able to carry out her mission from Adama...it will more likely be either Lee or better yet, her old XO (unlikely but it is a possibility).
Any guesses at who is a Cylon on the Pegasus crew? I can't see them not taking this chance (by adding a whole slew of characters) to add a new Cylon to the mix. My guess is the Pegasus CAG, if only because he is hesitant in his duties a bit. And he just has "that look." Which is probably on purpose.

Thanks for comment on BSG and LDS stuff. I figured it was a carryover a bit because all the info I could find on it related to the original show.

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mackillian
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Tick, email me or IM me with the spoiler!

The thing is, Adama is Starbuck's father figure. She'd do anything for him.

I'm not sure if Caine is charismatic as much as...scary. On her ship, you obey or die. No need for charisma there, it's compelling all on its own. While some of her crew do seem the follow her in the cold inhuman methods out of their own will, others seem to really be hurting over becoming inhuman (Caine's XO as an example). They don't want to do the morally wrong things she tells them. But they have to, or they'll die (as she's illustrated more than once).

Adama's crew follows him because they choose to. They trust him, his leadership, and knows he will back them one hundred percent. They know he's fair. They know he's thoughtful. He's their leader and holds no death threats over him if they don't obey. In fact, they are even able to resign if they so choose (as mentioned in "Final Cut" no crewmembers have chosen to exercise that option). In contrast, Caine "drafts" civilians into her crew, whether they like it or not. They aren't volunteers.

It's an interesting comparison to Crashdown's breakdown on Kobol in the first half of the season. First he reverted to Entirely By The Book (any military officer knows that you've got to have some adaptability/flexibility to be successful). He ignored the advice of the chief (any good officer will listen to their seasoned NCOs. They know their stuff). Then there was his threat to Cally just before the raid on the Cylon missile control. Cally isn't a marine, she isn't fully trained in infantry beyond what she's learned in basic (and as the Chief said, it was a long time ago for all of them). She's a deckhand, a mechanic. She fixes stuff, that's her MOS (military occupational specialty). For her to tweak like she did (the signs were already there beforehand and should've been fully addressed by her CO before the raid was to take place) wasn't out of place. Was it against orders? Yeah. Should she have been disciplined? Yes. But Crashdown's ultimatum with her at gunpoint completely messed things up. She's already afraid of messing up and dying. Holding a gun to her head and saying "Do it or die now" is only going to make her sieze up and panic more. Crashdown's leadership had become like Caine's while the Chief was still acting as Adama would.

Would the Chief have shot Crashdown? Maybe, but we'll never know for sure because Baltar took care of it.

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Alcon
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No, if there's anyone who can shoot Cain its Starbuck. And I'm sooo looking forward to her doing it... is it bad that I'm looking forward to Cain's death so much?
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Alcon
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Blast simultaneous posts...

"Would the Chief have shot Crashdown?"

I think he would have, but I think he would more likely have shot to disarm, not to kill.

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Noemon
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I had a fantastic evening last night, but it meant that I had to miss the show. Anyone know off the top of their head when they rebroadcast the episode? I'm thinking that it's late Monday night, but I can't remember for sure.
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Theaca
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I'll be playing it on my dvr in about five minutes. [Big Grin]

Sorry, that won't help you any.

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TheTick
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Monday at 11pm Eastern.

E-mail sent, Jamie.

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Noemon
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Thanks Tick!
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fil
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I think the relationship between Starbuck and Adama are more strained than we have seen. Caine is exactly the type of commander that Starbuck wants right now. Remember, Starbuck and Adama really haven't gotten over the whole 'lied about earth' bit that got her running away from him back to Caprica. She returned to find her father figure in a coma. They do hook up a bit at the Tomb of Apollo but I half wonder if their relationship lost a bit of luster (consider what happened to her and what she saw on Caprica). The fact that Caine wants to move forward with going back to fight Cylons puts her, maybe not on equal footing, but at least stable enough footing to cause her some doubt as to where her loyalties lie. I think her returning in the middle of the showdown between both Battlestars was a bit more than just coincidental symbolism. She genuinely is in the middle. She obviously won't subscribe to Caine's methods but on the other hand she wants so badly to go back and fight Cylons in her home space. Just a thought.
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Carrie
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How's about a random thought:

Anders and the rest of the Caprica Buccaneers aren't dead on Caprica because of Six's love of Pyramid... [Wink]

On that note, I was supremely disappointed in Kara when she fell for Cain's manipulations about "rescuing" them and "taking back the Colonies." Honestly!

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James Tiberius Kirk
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Just rewatched the episode.

Anyone else think that the writers were pushing it a little when Peg's XO (His name is Jack I believe) said she killed the families? I wouldn't put it below her, but it's as if Cain is being intentionally vilified, to the point where it's hard to understand her actions.

And, oooh, double-murder plot.

Predictions for the next episode, read at your own risk (though there may or may not be any spoilers below!):

<speculation>

.
.
.
.
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Adama won't get shot. We've been through this before (Kobol's Last Gleaming, anyone?), so I think he's going to come through unscathed. It would be a waste for Cain to die at the end of this episode as well, so I don't think she'll get shot either.

After the conflict, and Jack (Cain's XO) is already on Galactica. Jack and Cain's loyal marines try to kill Adama, but the plan fails. Adama has been expecting Cain to make a move; maybe he's prepared, maybe Jack can't bring himself to give the order. Consequently, Jack and the marines are captured and brigged.

Meanwhile, Starbuck boards Pegasus with the intention of killing Cain. In the preview, we see that the person who is pointing a gun at Cain is wearing a green sleeve, very much like the clothing worn by the pilots and the mechanics. Also note that this is the same the type of outfit that Baltar gave to Pegasus' cylon, "Gina".

So who's on the other side of that gun?

Officers wear black, so all of Pegasus's officers can be eliminated. It could be Gina, but I doubt that she'll get out of the brig, and Baltar cannot free her without reprisals. Laird has a motive, but he is still on Galactica. Starbuck may hesitate because she agrees with Cain about returning to Caprica (and if Cain really does walk out of this episode their relationship would be, uh, "strained" if Starbuck shoved a gun in her face).

Therefore the only other plausible suspect is Stinger, Pegasus' former CAG (who Cain replaced with Starbuck). There is no civilian life on Pegasus, and it seems as if his position is the only thing keeping him sane. Logically, he'd be considerably upset.

So Stinger pulls a gun on Cain. Starbuck sees this as she's coming in and shoots Stinger, saving Cain's life.

At the end of the episode, Cain believes that she's won Starbuck over, but doesn't know that Starbuck was originally sent to kill her. Adama, however, won't understand why Starbuck didn't carry out her job.

And now it's out in the open that Cain tried to kill Adama. Since Adama has imprisoned Peg's XO (Jack) and some of their marines, he can force Cain to trade Tyrol and Helo's lives for the lives of her men.

Of course, this all assumes Cain lives.

.
.
.
.
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</speculation>

--j_k

[ January 10, 2006, 01:10 AM: Message edited by: James Tiberius Kirk ]

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rCX
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quote:
It would be a waste for Cain to die at the end of this episode as well, so I don't think she'll get shot either.
I agree. The writers probably feel that Cain is far too interesting to kill off with 8 more episodes left in the season. They are very fond of plot twists and it is very unlikely that the most obvious person (Starbuck) will be pointing the gun at Cain.
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Telperion the Silver
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Holy moly.
Missed it Friday but saw it Monday.

GREAT episode.
Unless the machinery for Cylon rebirth is so big that the Resurrection Ship needs to be so huge I bet wasn't built just for following the RTF. I bet it was used for the attack on the 12 Colonies.

And what an interesting design. Almost looked like a cathedral. And also really fragil. No armour at all...just superstructure supports and glass on the inner area.

[ January 11, 2006, 02:27 AM: Message edited by: Telperion the Silver ]

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Carrie
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Well... (probably a spoiler following - involves commercial scene)

On the promo for the next episode, the green cuff had bruised wrists. This leans me towards Gina, and not Boomer (who does, unfortunately, make a decent assassin... when not locked up). Quick video recon confirms the wrist brusing to be Gina's cuff-bruise pattern (the double-circle). In the same commercial, we see Gina holding a gun under her chin, most likely thanks to Baltar. If these conditions hold and Gina does get out of the brig, I'll be most interested to see how she gets to Cain - and when.

Sad day for Cain, I guess. Happy day for me.

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R. Ann Dryden
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quote:
And what an interesting design. Almost looked like a cathedral. And also really fragil. No armour at all...just superstructure supports and glass on the inner area.
My exact thought, and I even have the building in mind that they may have based it off of: the Air Force Academy Chapel.

Look at some pics here: http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Air_Force_Academy_Chapel.html

I can see this building from my house, by the way. It is really cool. But the moment I saw the Resurrection on BSG, I went "Hey! I've seen that before!"

Judge for yourself.

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twinky
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Whoa, uncanny.
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Telperion the Silver
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Freaky! Yeah, that chapel looks almost the same!

As for Cain... yes she's a beeotch, but she also didn't point out anything against Adama that was actually incorrect. I see the Pegasus as what would happen when the RTF and it's new culture that is developing came in contact with the military of old.

Also it makes me wonder if this is not another Cylon plot. Remember the journalist from the previous episode was a Cylon...and the video she made was done to bring the people of the Fleet closer together. Then they lure the Pegasus to the RTF. Maybe they want to see what would happen when these two opposing cultures clashed.

The Pegasus' behavior to its fleet does not surprise me at all... in fact I would have been surpised if Cain did not strip the ships that had gathered around Pegasus. Pegasus is following the mode of thinking that Adama was going to do until Roslin convinced him otherwise. Convinced him to leave the Home System and flee. Pegasus is still working under the old directives. Attack and kill the enemy at all costs. Not realizing that the ONLY reason for fighting now resides in the 40 or so ships in the RTF. The 12 Colonies are dead...for the most part. The last of Humanity, the only reason for fighting, is in the Fleet.

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mackillian
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Ann, I thought the same think when I saw the Resurrection Ship as well. [Smile]
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David Bowles
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Incredible episode. I really, really dug the scenes between Baltar and Gina, especially where she begs him to kill her. Awesome stuff.
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TrapperKeeper
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Love the show, yadda yadda yadda. Unfortunately I am going out this friday and am going to miss the show on Sci-Fi.

When is it rebroadcast? Can you download the episode the day after or anything?

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Noemon
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Monday, 11 PM eastern time.
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TrapperKeeper
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Sweet, thanks!
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Carrie
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I got iTunes so I could download the episodes. [Blushing] They're available 24 hours after the show airs.
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Carrie
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Yay! Tonight we see who dies, who stays alive, who disobeys whose orders...

11 hours to go! And that feels a lot better than saying "Two weeks."

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Alcon
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[The Wave]
[The Wave]
[The Wave]
[The Wave]
[The Wave]


Only 7 more hours to go!!

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R. Ann Dryden
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See the nice thing about living in Mountain time is I get to see it at 8 instead of waiting until 10. [Big Grin]
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Noemon
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Augh! Of all the times for my satellite to go out! It dropped literally at the climax of the episode! I am so not happy about this.
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Noemon
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Well, reception returned in the last 5 minutes of the show, so I know how things turned out, but I have no idea how they happened. So, I've got questions.

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Hope that's enough periods.
Why didn't the Pegasus' team assassinate Adama? Did Gina just get to her before she could give the code word or something? How did Gina get to her anyway. The last thing that I saw clearly involving her was Baltar telling her about getting two tickets when he went to the stadium. I assume that she got the gun from him, but how, exactly? And what else happened.

At the very end Anastasia was eavesdropping on Starbuck and Apollo's conversation. What's the story there? Is there a reason that I've missed why she'd have been doing that?

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R. Ann Dryden
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At least on my TV, it replays at 11 (mountain time, 3 hours after original airing). I could tell you the answers, but it will be more satisfying to watch yourself.

SPOILERS


Except for the Anastasia thing. I didn't get that either. And I don't know why Lee wanted to die. I'm planning on watching it again myself, I got a phone call in the middle and maybe I missed something important.

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I think Lee wanted to die because out in the middle of space was the first peace he had experienced in a long time. I think his "incident" is going to effect his character in profound ways.
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mackillian
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SPOILERS
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Yes, I think Lee is having a lot of problems, especially with the new problem/tense/whateverthing between him and his father. Might be that he's just emotionally overwhelmed.

And Dee listening outside? I haven't a clue. That was WEIRD.

Noemon, the P-Team didn't assasinate Adama because Caine never gave the coded order.

And Starbuck didn't kill Caine because Adama also didn't give HIS order.

Baltar gave her the gun after Gina killed a marine that went into the cell. Well, after Gina handed it to him and said that suicide is a sin. Baltar handed the gun back and said she needed justice. So Gina somehow got into Caine's quarters and was waiting for her.

Caine turns around, sees Gina and the pistol pointed at her. Caine says, "Frack. You."

Gina says, "You're not my type," and fires.

Gina escapes without anyone notices (it was pandelirium!)

Oh yeah, and Roslin made Adama an admiral. Jack has command of the Pegasus.

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Noemon
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Thanks mack!
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James Tiberius Kirk
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haven't seen the episode yet. sounds like a doozy.

aww.

I liked my theory. )-:

--j_k

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Perhaps the writers see Dee as a possible character who would try and get father and son reconciled. She sees Adama as a father figure herself.
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Noemon
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I could buy that.
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