WOW. The past few episodes were kinda lacking, felt like the show had lost direction or something to me.
The stories and acting were great, they just focused on the wrong things or in the wrong order... and Billy should have gotten a funeral or something. He better not just be forgotten. I know Laura and D will grieve over Billy's death, but I want to SEE them do it. Otherwise it will feel like they have been forgotten.
But this episode really hit me. Finally the population numbers come up again... THE most important thing for our race. And while I detested the anti-choice thing... I had to agree that in this time of species emergency we must breed asap. I'm glad they did not back away from this...I would have much of my faith in the show if they had.
While it was obvious the new Pegasus Commander was making a HUGE mistake jumping in, I wasn't able to call WHAT would happen. I was almost expecting to see the Lords of Kobol or something. And to have LEE in charge now!! Holy Frack!
Yeah... I look for those edge-of-my-seat episodes too... and the last half of this had me on mine. Posts: 4953 | Registered: Jan 2004
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I really really liked it, though I wish they had explicitly uncovered a new Cylon when they were on Caprica. I'm starting to seriously wonder about Gaius, though...
I enjoyed the points of view of Caprica-Six and Boomer, particularly when Baltar realized for Six just how alike the two actually are. I'm very curious as to their plan to make the Cylon world better in the next 36 hours - do they instigate the peace talks hinted at in the trailer for next week? Or are they going to try to influence Cylon society in another way?
posted
Today's episode was great. Possibly my favorite episode of season 2. Definately my favorite episode of the second half of season 2.
I'm soo glad they brought back Sharon 1. That felt like such a loose end, them never addressing what happened to her. After all, she died before they blew the resurrection ship. And the direction she and 6 were headed by the end of it made me extremely happy Though, I kinda wish they'd gone with Anders and helped the resistance movement. They're both still kind of at risk of being boxed as it is. Maybe they will end up going with the resistance movement... if the resistance movement can be brought to trust them anyway.
I can see why they did what they did with the baby, but it still kinda frustrates me. Far as I can tell Sharon has done nothing but help them. She didn't want to reveal who the rest of the cylons in the fleet were becuase she knew they'd just go and kill them. I can understand not wanting to betray them to death, and it would be a real death this time cause she helped em take out the resurrection ship. They made it look like she's going to go nuts in the finale, I hope she doesn't. I hope Helo can pull her out of it.
I can't wait for the Season finale now. But it kinda makes me sad that they're ending the season so soon. I want more Posts: 3295 | Registered: Jun 2004
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BLAST, BLAST, BLAST, BLAST, BLAST, BLAST, BLAST, BLAST, BLAST, BLAST, BLAST, BLAST, BLAST, !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When will I learn not to read the rundown of a really good show before watching it. I have wait until tomorrow when it is available on iTunes for download. It looks like this was too good of an ep to spoil! BLAST!
Posts: 263 | Registered: Nov 2005
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And Sharon's comment about the Six models being so hardcore was bang-on.
Loved the episode. I already want to watch it again. I can't figure out where the hell they're going. I thought Baltar would take the baby and head back to Caprica, but no. GalacticaSharon tweaking was unexpected, at least when she attacked Cottle. It seemed more of a grieving mother instinct than anything, but then again, do Cylons have those sorts of insticts? Maybe so. They seem much more...human.
Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
This is the Galactica I know and love. CapricaSix having a Baltar in the head was absolutely brilliant. I still don't understand how that's being done. FleetBatar has no idea about the other Six, and the other Cylons certainly seem to think he's human. I don't understand how he survived the nuclear blast that killed her. However, this episode restored my faith that there is an explanation, and it's a good one.
I'm a little confused by Rosalin's handling of the baby. After all, once Hera gets older she's going to start to realize she's different from other humans. Maya won't be able to explain to her why that is. The only person in the Fleet who knows what it feels like to work against what she inherantly is would be Sharon 2. I don't believe for a moment that Hera is going to stay with Maya for the next sixteen years, but Rosalin certainly shouldn't be operating on that assumption.
I had two favorite moments. When Sharon 2 is reaching into the incubator for Hera with her head on Helo's chest and Helo leans down and closes his eyes. So beautiful. And when the Chief is out there with Helo to spread the ashes. The way their friendship has matured has just been one of my favorite subplots. Chief has got to be the single most decent human being on the show. I'm holding out a crazy hope that Sharon 1 can get back together with him. It's silly, but I don't care.
Posts: 2283 | Registered: Dec 2003
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
WHAT THE FRAKE!?
This show is boggling my mInD!? MUAHA
Awuah! Just when I think the show is sliding into predictibility they THROW THIS!!! *points vaguely* at me!
AY!
Maybe Baltar IS God? Showing himself as a Cylon no. 6 in Baltar and Balter in 6 but is really soemthing else, driving the 2 together?
posted
I have to say, Caprica 6's Baltar is HILARIOUS. Some of my favorite lines in that episode came from him. He's going to quickly become one of my favorite chars if he sticks around.
Posts: 3295 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Well, here's a theory. Even though Baltar survived the because he was sheltered by Six. The minute she died and because of the nuclear blast, her conciousness that was being released imprinted itself onto him and the reverse is true of him to her. However, if that true, it would make me think that he is not entirely human either. Maybe he's the first Human-Cylon cross, an earlier model that went completely human or maybe something else entirely? I like the idea that he is a cylon...or maybe a child of a Cylon and a human? There's a thought.
Posts: 263 | Registered: Nov 2005
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I forgot to say before, it was nice to see flashbacks used appropriately in this episode. They went back and showed us the important events from before that we needed to understand in order to follow the current story. Nicely done.
Posts: 2283 | Registered: Dec 2003
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Blayne Bradley
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posted
RedDwarf I agree assuming my "Generation Cylons" (Gen-1 Toasters, Gen-2 Tactical Cyclons, Gen-3 Skins) theory is correct then that would be an interesting theory.
Also I notice the contrast, the no. 6 in Baltar's head is a religious zealot trying to undermind the human race yet try to "save Baltar" while the other no. 6 with Balter in her head is pro-human and is trying to get no. 6 to betray her own people and help humans.
Interesting its like the bad in one became a ghost and the good in another did likewise.
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OK, I admit, this last episode (Fri. Feb. 24) was pretty good. Having Baltar appear as an hullucination that can be seen only by "Caprica Six," exactly the reverse of the way it is with Baltar on Gallactica, is an absolutely delightul plot twist I for one in no way expected. And to have her confess her love for Baltar, once she learned from Sharon (Number Eight) that Baltar is still alive, and have that lead to a pact between the two Cylons to rebel against the Cylon general orders and reassess the wisdom of wiping out the human race, makes this a really interesting story. I now am just as interested (or even more interested) in what is going on on Caprica as in what is going on in the fleet.
Posts: 3742 | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Alcon: They're both still kind of at risk of being boxed as it is. Maybe they will end up going with the resistance movement... if the resistance movement can be brought to trust them anyway.
KIND of at risk? Their Cylon lives are over as soon as that other cylon gets revived in 36 hours or so. They'll be either boxed or on the run from that point on. I suppose if they weren't forced to do what they must within 36 hours then they wouldn't do it at all but I still grieve for the fact that they will be on the run, and unable to interact with the cylons for their new cause, after 36 hours.
Posts: 1014 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I'm so glad I DVR these shows. That was an *excellent* episode.
And MindBaltar was SUCH a great idea! It was the ultimate fakeout... I gasped and said out loud, "So he IS a cylon!". Then he disappeared. I laughed out loud. My husband did the same thing when I watched it with him later (Friday is boy's night out, so I get to see it before he does. )
Overall, great episode from start to finish. I'm dreading the season finale. No new episodes for months. I'm depressed already. In a good way.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Number Six has told Baltar that she is an emissary from God. I'm starting to think we should take that at face value. That's the only explanation I can think of that accounts for both imaginary Six and Baltar.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Okay, after actually watching the episode, I am far less convinced that Baltar is anything but human. At the moment, I just don't know what to think of both of them. What I would be really interested to see is the meeting of the two at some point. I would like to see what mind-six is going to do when Baltar meets up with the resurrected six.
I am definately thinking that these dopplegangers could be the end result of the nuclear blast plus consciousness transfer. Maybe an imprint of the other's personality on the host's minds that acts as a mental projection of their guilt for their part in the destruction of mankind? Baltar's imprint manifests as an emissary from God offering him redemption for betraying his own people. Six's manifests as a conscience to deliver her from her betrayal of her true love? Don't know, but it is obviously a very good plot tactic as we are sitting here talking about it. I will love to see the last two episodes of the season.
On another note, I wonder how many seasons they have plotted out at this point. I realize that some would like to see this last forever, but personally I would like to see the show have a well plotted out beginning, middle, and good conclusion. RM is supposed to have a bible of the show that he wrote. Any thoughts?
Posts: 263 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
We already know how Baltar would react if he met a living Six, because he did. Hew immediately loved the Six he met that was being kept prisoner on Pegasus, intervened to stop her torture, and arranged for her escape. He also gave her a gun and invited her to get even with the psychotic Admiral. She did; she is the one who killed the Admiral.
Posts: 3742 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
Yes, but Gina was not his Six. I'd be much more interested to see the very woman he's been hallucinating - and vice versa.
Posts: 3932 | Registered: Sep 1999
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posted
So, I'm having some confusion about the human looking cylons. Help?
My original thought was that they took humans and then used them as models to make the 12 cylon models. I thought perhaps Sharon was grabbed after her training and after she spent some time on Galactica. That would explain why the first Sharon thought she was human. That would explain why the second Sharon knew everyone from Galactica.
But the last episode suggested that there WAS no childhood Sharon, it was all a cover to get her into the military. And Sharon 1 must have had false memories of a family and childhood. But if that is the case, how does Sharon 2 know the people on Galactica? She remembered events, speeches, all of Galactica history prior to the massacre of the human race. I assumed she didn't have memories for past the time when Galactica went on the run, since both Sharons existed separately by then.
So how come both Sharons remember Galactica at all?
Posts: 1014 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
...
there are 12 models, some are agents who know theyre cylons and there are some programmed to THINK they are human to act as sleepers.
However; when one cylon dies her memories are transfered back to a new body.
Maybe at some point in her life S-1 made secret contact with cylons and transfered her memory up to the point of the cylon attack.
posted
My impression is that cylons of the same model share a common memory pool, but have distinct personalities, or more accurately, distinct souls. This would be why the Sharon currently on Galactica can remember having had a relationship with The Chief, but didn't pick up where the recently killed Sharon had left off.
I could, of course, but completely wrong.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
I think Noemon has it. I wonder, though, when the memory transfers occur. JUST when they die? All the time? Set intervals? I'd also figure that they would be designed with a way to keep their memories apart from received memories of other cylons. It's interesting to think about.
Posts: 5422 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
I also am confused about this. If Noemon's theory is correct, I don't understand how the other Sixes don't know about Caprica Six's love for Gaius.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
That makes sense; it hadn't occurred to me that it was possible that none of the 6 models had died since Caprica 6 had. How much time has passed since the cylon attack on the colonies, anyway?
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
What I am continually obsessing with is the identity of the 12 cylon models. I just can't help myself taking every character and wondering if THEY are a cyclon and find myself working them into the current plot. This really is a mind-scrambling event for me and I just can't get enough...
Advent 115 I would suggest you start an Atlantis thread and conduct all your wonderful posts there.
And,
I also wonder about your humanity when there must be another 114 of you Adventers running around loose. Geez...
Posts: 1870 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Advent, that was kind of a dick thing to say in a thread of fans dicussing the show. It's like someone popping onto the general forum here and making fun of all of us. Not cool.
Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
Alucard, I have the same problem. And it was my only beef with this last episode...it was a little weird that we saw all these 'skin-jobs', but the only ones we saw were the ones we, the audience, already know about. So why not show any of the others, except to keep us in the dark, which wouldn't make any logical sense in terms of the story. The only way it would make sense is if those other six models just plain aren't on Caprica. Why would that be?
Noemon, I am thinking it's only about 4 to 6 months at the most. If I remember right, just a couple of months into the fleet's travels was the rebellion on the prison ship. They said then that it was 7 months to the next election. They're running campaigns now, so...
Wonder if we're ready yet to start an American Idol thread.... Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
I listened to the podcast for this last episode and RDM specifically addressed it, saying that TPTB didn't want to reveal upcoming storylines. I mean, really. How much of a shock would it be in the future if we'd already seen Gaeta munching on biscotti beside another Six, and possibly Dee? It worked for Boomer - I don't think the anticipation would work again (Just so you know, those are not confirmed - just geeky speculation/wishing )
Besides...
SPOILER
*
*
*
We meet a new Cylon in the next episode. That should be enough.
Posts: 3932 | Registered: Sep 1999
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posted
I think it's been nine months since the Cylon attack. In last week's episode it showed Number Six being reborn and then said "Nine Months Later" and went to what I thought was the current time line. *Hopes that I remember correctly*
quote: If they were created before she fell in love with Gaius, they wouldn't have her memories.
This doesn't hold consistant with Helo's Sharon and her memories. Helo's Sharon appears to remember everything about Chief's Sharon including memories made after her own creation. This includes the words Adama said to her after she'd been dead for a while.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
I thought we saw a new cylon from the back in the last episode on Caprica -- I recall seeing a black man walking and talking with someone else. I think I already recorded over the tape, so I can't double-check, but did nobody else see this?
Posts: 6213 | Registered: May 2001
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posted
It was the doctor guy from the episode when Starbuck was in the baby farm. He's already known.
Posts: 5422 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
Other fun fact: if you go see Firewall, notice the amazing similarity between the Harrison Ford's house and Baltar's house on Caprica. Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
I think that Helo Sharon was programmed with BSG Sharon's memories at some point. That would mean that some point, they downloaded all of BSG Sharon's memories in preparation for Helo Sharon's mission on Caprica. See, she knew that she was a cylon and what her mission was, rather than BSG Sharon who was programmed to think that she was human. The biggest question would then be when would have they downloaded her memories? I would say that at anytime really. BSG Sharon would "wake up" all the time with no memory of what she had been doing. Like when she planted the bombs in the water tanks. It would stand to reason that during one of those black-outs, she would have downloaded her memories to a cylon raider close-by or something. The raider theory comes from the Ep that Lucy Lawless first guest starred as the reporter. I would say that since they have the ability to download memories or consciousness at death, they probably have the ability to do that anytime.
That would mean that even though the Cylons have the ability to do that, I would imagine that they would only do so when there is a reason. That would explain why none of the other Sixes would know or have memories of Baltar.
Think of the confusion and pain that it would cause; all of them sharing everyone else's memories and experiences. From the standpoint that the human cylons were created by the machine cylons, I can't think that a machine would logically conclude that just throwing data into a giant pool with no organization would make sense. Ron Moore states himself on the podcast the cylons are not the borg. No hive mind then.
How about this. Think of the cylon race as the ultimate cybernetic computer network. Each machine has a unique id and unique data, yet by being apart of the same network, that data can be shared by others at will. The limited numbers of human models would be explained as a necessity of keeping the network as easy to maintain as possible. Now think about this, what happens if you have one computer on a network crash and you lose it physically? Well, if the vital data is backed up, then simply load that data onto a similar machine and keep on going. I would think of the cylons and their memories in this fashion. Again this would explain the limited number of cylon models (which is something I have been wondering about, "Why only 12 models?"). That is necessary to eliminate confusion and data corruption during the download process.
Even better, if you have a power supply fry everything in your computer, but the hard drive survives, logically you could take that drive and stick it into an identical configuration and just turn it back on. No data loss and as far as the data is concerned, it is in the same machine. Okay, that's enough of my rantings. Any thoughts anyone?
Posts: 263 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
I have a thought, but it's not actually related to you, Reddwarf.
My thought: It really sucks when cable boxes go out and there's almost no way to get it fixed/replaced before Friday.
Posts: 3932 | Registered: Sep 1999
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posted
Yeah, that does suck. Is there a way to take it to a payment center and replace it in person? (its possible with comcast, is why I ask)
Posts: 9754 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Sorry to hear about your cable loss Carrie. If you can get it back up by Monday night, they replay the episode.
Reddwarf- I like the idea that Helo's Sharon and BSG's Sharon are a unique case. That clears up a lot of consistancy issues. I still don't know how either one of them could remember things from after she died (Helo's Sharon saying to Adama, "You asked me why"), but I suppose that's a seperate issue. In the rest of your post, do you mean that generally the cylons do not share their memories with other cylons and that they are usually only transfered to themselves? Yet the cylons still have the ability to transfer it if they choose? If this is what you mean, I think that is a fabulous theory. I'm uncertain about your meaning because I don't understand how having only 12 models eliminates data corruption and confusion. It would still have to keep track of all of the seperate "souls" regardless of the number of models.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Carrie allow me to introduce you to the joy of iTunes. I have cable, but no Scifi since mine is only basic. So I download the episodes and watch them later. They are available within 24 hours after they are aired for download. $1.99 per episode and well worth it!
As to my theory, it will be easiest if you think of their memories and "souls" as data and their bodies as hardware. Now think of how a computer network works at any normal business. Everyone's computer on the network is unique in data. However, since every computer is hooked up to the network, other users on the network can see that data and even download onto their machine, making it their data too. Now say there is this piece of data that is downloaded by one user that was created by another. The user that downloaded it now owns that data as their own to use it however they see fit, but that still doesn't change the original data which is living on the creator's machine. Also, most large networks have massive back-up systems that access users computer regularly and back-up the data so that if the user's hardware goes down or is lost, then the data isn't lost. Once the user has replaced their hardware, the data is restored and everything is as it was. Now apply this to Cylon society. Pretty cool to think about, huh?
As to the limited models, think of it in this fashion. In very large networks, the key to managing the complexity of the network is as much uniformity as possible. While data can never be uniform, the method of storing it and the type of hardware that it operates on can be. In networks in the real world, where you regularly have all types of equipment connected to a network, this complexity is managed by backing up only vital data (documents, etc). Usually that means that no operational data is backed up. Data like drivers, operating systems, programs, etc. There isn't the need to back-up this type of data because it is more than likely that if the hardware is lost, the hardware that will replace it will probably be a different configuration requiring different drivers, operating systems, programs, etc. In the cylon network, this is not possible. The data that they are backing up is infinately more complex. Essentially when they back up, they have to back-up everything, system operational files and all. That means that in order to restore that data without corruption, the data would have to be restored to exactly the same hardware configuration that it was backed up from. It's like my hard drive comment from my last post. That is why it would make sense to have a limited number of hardware configurations. The limited number would make it possible to manage the enormus complexity of the cylon network. Plus as Helo Sharon stated in "Scar", death for a Cylon is still an incredibly painful and traumatic experience. Even for the machine cylons. Add to that being downloaded into a completely different body and cylon society would probably implode from the chaos and confusion it would cause. So to minimize the confusion and trama, they limit the number of hardware configurations and only download data back into identical configurations. On top of that, from an inventory control standpoint, fewer models are going to be easier to manufacture and maintain.
Now to directly answer your question, all of the cylons (human and machine) are individuals with unique data just like regular humans. However the cylons have the added benefit of being able to share their data with other cylons at will. Now even though they can be identical to other cylons phyically, they are still just as unique in data to regular humans.
I would further argue that in the case of the Sharons, Helo Sharon is a copy of BSG Sharon and therefore techinically the same person, like a clone, but different now because of their experiences that they have had since the split. Like two branches from the same trunk of a tree.
Posts: 263 | Registered: Nov 2005
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