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Author Topic: Heroes III
Slim
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(commenting on last two episodes)

Good stuff. I must be watching a different show than everyone else. [Smile]

Mrs. Petrelli: I still don't believe she's really Sylar's mom, but if so it would explain why in Season 1 they were given orders to keep him alive. And then I liked what she said, "Someone is orchestrating everything behind the scenes." I wonder who that could be. <Stares intently at Mrs. Petrelli.>

Hiro: Yay, Hiro and Ando become friends again. But they fall into Mrs. Petrelli's trap, and they think they have to get Adam back. This should be interesting.

Sylar: Scary how Mrs. Petrelli is treating him. Letting him feed his hunger. Putting him back in prison is only a slap on the wrist. I don't think she knows Peter escaped-- I bet she wanted Sylar to kill him. She always wanted him dead.

Future Sylar: I'm guessing Noah did become young, as that would explain why he's in that house. But in either case, he became attached to Noah in some way that he wouldn't let this kid get hurt. In fact, its what keeps him going.

Present Peter: I wonder if he will absorb all Future Peter's powers? Actually it seems (to me) that in order for him to absorb a power, the other person has to use their power. And now he has the hunger-- and know we know that it is a hunger to know how more things work. If he can figure out how to not explode, I have confidence he can control this side-effect.

Future Peter: Says Present Peter needs to save the world, since he keeps stepping on too many butterflies. And then he tells himself to visit Sylar. Oops.

Future Clair: I see what she meant when she said that the pain is what made her feel human.

Clair:
quote:
Maybe Claire wouldn't have died in Season 1, either. I thought the whole point was just to keep Sylar from getting her powers?
That could be right. But Sylar didn't mind trying to kill her then, and now he says she's different and he doesn't even want to kill her. So at least something must have changed, even if it is just Sylar.

Ms. Pyro: She must have had training from Doctor Invisible. Do you really need to turn Claire evil to make her into a good fighter? The whole air thing? I think Clair just got scared when she was reminded of Sylar.

Villains: Wiped out pretty easy. But then they said there were supposed to be a dozen of them, so there should still others we don't know. Maybe not, and they are going the "villain in all of us" track.

Daphne: Huh, so she marries Matt, and they take care of Molly. And in the present, she steals both halves of the formula, and so is possibly responsible for everyone getting powers?

Matt: So I guess he just watched this whole episode?

Mohinder: With Mohinder turning into Prof. Lizard-Man, and Matt in Africa, who's taking care of Molly? ... Oh, must be Maya.

Trisha: 3rd impression: Yup, different person. And now there could be a dozen of them!! No wonder Nikki had Multiple Personality Disorder. 4th impression: Oh, they are triplets separated at birth. Wasn't Jessica Nikki's twin? Or was that just a false memory? But they were all given their super-powers by the company. So not only was the torn formula had by the company before, but it was used before.

Linderman: Yup, I was right. Still going for Nathan's presidency from beyond the grave. Mrs. Petrelli was all about his presidency before. Does she know about Linderman? Is she behind this, too?

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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by Carrie:
I kinda wish they hadn't put David Anders' name in the opening credits - seeing the Adam Monroe reveal would have been a bit cooler without knowing it was coming.

I felt exactly the same way.
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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by Slim:
(commenting on last two episodes)

Good stuff. I must be watching a different show than everyone else. [Smile]

No, I'm loving it, too. Except for Mohinder and Maya. He's so bone stupid that there's just nothing about him that appeals to me in the least. And what happened to her accent? All of a sudden, she's speaking completely unaccented English? Maybe it's another power, or maybe they (oops) just forgot.

quote:
Originally posted by Slim:
Mohinder: With Mohinder turning into Prof. Lizard-Man,

Bug man, I think. Note the sticky-icky on his fingers.

quote:
Originally posted by Slim:
Trisha: 3rd impression: Yup, different person. And now there could be a dozen of them!! No wonder Nikki had Multiple Personality Disorder. 4th impression: Oh, they are triplets separated at birth. Wasn't Jessica Nikki's twin? Or was that just a false memory?

No, that's just called writers who suck at continuity.

quote:
Originally posted by Slim:
Linderman: Yup, I was right. Still going for Nathan's presidency from beyond the grave. Mrs. Petrelli was all about his presidency before. Does she know about Linderman? Is she behind this, too?

Well, the preview showed Papa Petrelli back. And in one of the comics, they showed that he and Linderman were war buddies. Except that Papa was a real jerk to Linderman when he found out that Linderman had powers. Even after Linderman saved his life.
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Elmer's Glue
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The opening credits ruined the Adam reveal for me too. I don't think I would normally remember his name, but I know someone named David Anders.
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Blayne Bradley
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I love this season so far, so fast paced in comparison.
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Da_Goat
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
AvidReader, that was Noah. Something's going to happen to age-revert him, and Gabriel is going to adopt him. Maybe Claire had wanted to, but Gabriel won.

My friend had a theory on this. He thinks a Sylar gained the ability to time travel (possibly from Hiro), and went back to the past to steal baby Noah. Growing up with a superhero as a dad could easily abolish Noah's distaste for them. Then again, Sylar didn't seem too keen on letting Noah see him paint the future, but perhaps it was only that power that he wanted to hide.
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Samprimary
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http://www.avclub.com/content/tvclub/heroes/i_am_become_death
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AvidReader
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Thanks for the link, Sam. I think I'm starting to understand some of the frustration. Personally, I'm over the Season 1 tension. The Season 1 characters were neophytes groping in the dark for a way into the light. They saved New York; they should emerge into a better understanding of themselves and each other.

So far I like Season 3 because the characters are trying. Sure Sylar and Peter can't keep track of which of their powers do what and would be best suited to the situation. They fall back on favorite powers. I do that with my D&D characters, and I'm not in personal peril. As long as they make some progress, I'll be happy.

And time travel is my favorite sci fi trope, so I don't mind that they're still doing it. As long as it's done well, it really never gets old for me.

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Brinestone
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I just assumed the kid was named after Noah for some reason. Is that not right?

My theory is that Future Peter knew that Present Peter would eventually get Sylar's power and become a villain. So he chose the circumstances under which Peter would absorb it. Because Peter absorbed the power from a reformed Gabriel, he knows that the power can be controlled. Also, he knows that Sylar can change into Gabriel. I believe that now Peter and Sylar will join forces to figure out how to control their ability.

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The Pixiest
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My hubby and I have been making "The Fly" jokes about Mohinder ever since he started picking the scales off his back. These writers really have no originality do they? Who cares though, the show is interesting and it turned Mohinder into something other than a big yawn.

I agree that baby-Noah is a time-regressed HRG-Noah. Now that they've planted the seed and shown us Baby-Noah, I think we're going to see HRG-Noah time-regressed later in the season.

I don't like what they've done to Peter. I like him as a pure good guy. Not everyone can or should be conflicted. It needs to be a sliding scale.

New Nikki can go. I don't like her. The Triplet thing is just too soap opera.

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Carrie
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Maybe... Sylar will kill Peter (in, of course, an epic battle of skillz) and we'll be rid of his angst-ridden stupidity. [Wink]
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FlyingCow
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"The Triplet thing is just too soap opera."

This entire show is getting to be too soap opera. It's like watching a train wreck... you just can't look away.

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Samprimary
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quote:
This entire show is getting to be too soap opera. It's like watching a train wreck... you just can't look away.
yes i'm not alone
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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
This entire show is getting to be too soap opera. It's like watching a train wreck... you just can't look away.
yes i'm not alone
Now that's somebody has come out and said it I can voice my agreement.
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Jon Boy
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Last season there was amnesia. This season they're bringing everyone back from the dead. Yeah, it's definitely a soap opera.
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romanylass
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Mohinder is totally becoming a cockroach. Remember the very first episode, where he waxes rhapsodic about cockroaches?
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Brinestone
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Fascinating theory. I just looked up cockroaches in the Heroes wiki, and it totally fits.
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Jon Boy
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Ooh. That totally fits. The hissing sound that future Mohinder was making is a lot like the hissing sound that some cockroaches make.
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Elmer's Glue
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Oh great. Now he'll never die.
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The Pixiest
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So instead of Jeff Goldblum he's Gregor Samsa.
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EmpSquared
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Okay, so obviously spoilers....


*lip quiver*


Ando's gonna be okay, right?

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Elmer's Glue
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I was laughing during that whole scene.
This show is such a train wreck.

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Itsame
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If Ando's really dead, then I'm totally done with this show.
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AvidReader
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If Hiro did stab Ando, that explains Future-Ando's comment about Hiro having lost his way. My other thought is that somewhere in there, Hiro stopped time, picked up some fake blood, and rigged it to look like he'd stabbed Ando. Or maybe he just figures he can get Ando to the hospital before anything bad happens to him.

I liked the reveal that it was Papa Parkman behind the Linderman visions. Nathan and Tracy confronting Angella made me especially happy. I like that her plans are starting to unravel, but I hope someone finds her soon.

There was one thing I wish they'd done different. When Noah was talking to Vortex Man, they had a shot where they pulled back to Sylar watching from the car. I wish they'd had the sound of talking carry just fine to remind everyone that Sylar has super hearing. But I was even happy with Claire's search for empowerment this week.

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FlyingCow
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Wow, this show is just going downhill fast.

I knew from the moment the voiceover "next on Heroes" guy called Noah Bennet "HRG" that I wasn't going to have a pleasant night.

Waiting for a "Heroes Digest" like a "Soap Opera Digest" to come out, sitting there tauntingly in the supermarket checkout aisle.

Some of the patently absurd pieces:
- The obvious way in which Adam Monroe escaped, and then the easy way in which he was knocked out and captured.
- Hiro killing Ando. Terribly done. I'm not sure what's worse - that he actually stabbed him, or that they're going to wipe that away with a "he time traveled and made it look like he did"
- Maya being stupid, but then thankfully removing us from having to deal with her anymore. It's like the writers said "how do we get rid of a character the internet doesn't seem to like?"
- Another silly "you don't want to know what his power is". That applied far more to vortex man than to puppet man. I mean, honestly? A guy that can make you do whatever he wants vs. a guy who can make anything he wants disappear into an abyss.... and the puppet guy you don't want to know?
- Mrs. Petrelli's... "That's classified... but let me just tell you guys anyway, you seem like such trustworthy kids..."
- Glad they finally revealed it was Parkman's father, as that was getting kind of obvious.

My fiancee turned to me half way through this episode and asked why we were still watching. She did have the idea, re: older and younger Noah, that somehow Noah is Claire/Sylar's kid from the future, and that through time manipulation eventually ends up being her dad. Kind of far-fetched, but at this point I wouldn't put it past this show.

I'm just waiting to find out that the formula uses alien DNA collected in the future and brought to the past, and that major figures in history (Vlad the Impaler, Jack the Ripper, Egyptian gods, etc) were all "specials".
-

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cmc
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So, what happened to Nathan's wife and kids? I missed that somewhere along the lines...

I think what's bugging me the most is that I really can't stand Mohindar. At all. Plus, like, what's he doing with those people anyway? And why can't Maya get all black-eyed when she's in a cocoon type thing anyway?

How did Petrelli Sr. get hurt in the first place?

And who the heck is good and who the heck is bad???

With all the little things I could nit-pick about this show - I still like it. I mean, if it bothers people, why not just shut it off and turn on the football game or something?

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FlyingCow
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cmc, I'm about at that point, which is unfortunate. It's the "Smallville" tipping point, I think - the point at which the show becomes too painful to watch anymore.

I may give it one more episode, but I may not.

What frustrates me is that I went back to watch the beginning of Season 1, and the show was so good at that point. It had such potential - and instead, it became super hero soap opera on speed.

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cmc
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Ooooohhh... I know that point, FlyingCow, because I don't watch Smallville anymore... ; )

I'm too hooked to give it up - I want to see how everything plays out. Season 1 WAS the best... I think that's why I'm so hooked.

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Christine
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quote:
Originally posted by FlyingCow:
cmc, I'm about at that point, which is unfortunate. It's the "Smallville" tipping point, I think - the point at which the show becomes too painful to watch anymore.

I may give it one more episode, but I may not.

What frustrates me is that I went back to watch the beginning of Season 1, and the show was so good at that point. It had such potential - and instead, it became super hero soap opera on speed.

Yeah, I know what you mean.

For the record, I recently decided to catch up on Smallville and watch season 8. (I gave up after season 5.) Season 6 was also a wash but season 7 got much better.

The difference there was that with Smallville, I always wanted to see the show that I started to love (in the first 3 seasons) turn into the Superman story I knew. I was curious.

With Heroes, I'm not even curious anymore. I think when Hiro stabbed Ando it pretty much ended it for me.

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Blayne Bradley
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I felt the episode was brilliant. You guys simply can enjoy a show for what it is.
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Blayne Bradley
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For example I absolutely loved the scene with Sylar where the guy said "I will not be a monster" and sacrificed himself, it was great.

Sylar seems to be enjoying this.

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Puppy
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It did seem out of character for Hiro to blythely stab Ando without dithering about it first. I presume his intent is to find out all about the formula, then go back to the time before Ando's death and use the information to do it without killing him ..? The "fake blood" solution doesn't do it for me.
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Blayne Bradley
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I believe that the simpliest solution is most likely.

We know that A) Hiro would never kill his friend.

B) That to some extant this is already predetermined, Ando lived.

C) We clearly see the sword penetrating Ando.

To my mind Ando is indeed nearly or is fatally wounded but once they leave the area Hiro comes back warps him to Claire and has him healed.

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EmpSquared
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Or maybe once Hiro does what he needs to do, he thinks he can go to the past, pick up Ando before he kills him, and take him to the future, as if that wouldn't change anything.

I'm sure that Ando isn't gone, since he needs to learn how to throw hadokens.

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Itsame
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Blayne, I'm 99% sure that Hiro doesn't even know that Claire can heal Ando. You can't assume that every character knows everything about every other character.
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Blayne Bradley
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Well he knows Adam can heal, he can get his past blood.
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ricree101
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But he doesn't have any reason to know that Adam or Claire's blood can be used to heal people.
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FlyingCow
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"I felt the episode was brilliant. You guys simply can enjoy a show for what it is."

You are Season' Three's target audience. This audience seems to like fast paced, thinly plotted, power-use-heavy, mental chewing gum style shows that are based heavily on cliche. See also: ID4, Matrix Reloaded/Revolutions, Underworld, Starship Troopers

I was Season One's target audience. This audience seems to like character and plot development that deal with real people's problems coping with the challenges of a fantastical world. See also: Matrix, Pitch Black, Alien

Those target audiences may overlap, but it is my belief that they do so only slightly. I am not in the former category.

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Elmer's Glue
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The guy pulling himself into a vortex was one of the few believable character choices this season.

Why did NBC feel the need to ruin the final "reveal" for everyone? They already told me it was papa Petrelli and he was pulling all the strings.

Mohinder didn't do the intro, so looks like he might die.

I get what the writers are doing. Its similar to what the Prison Break writers have done. The difference is that the Prison Break writers made it believable and enjoyable to watch.
They are trying to "blur the lines between hero and villain." But instead of having reasons, they are just making it happen.
They can't just make every character change sides and expect us to put up with it, can they?

Heroes is a prime time super hero soap opera.

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Glenn Arnold
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Speaking of healing people; how did Nathan get healed? The explanation given is that Linderman healed him, but Linderman is only an illusion created by Parkman's father.

I guess they could use Claire's blood, but who did it?

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T:man
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It's so stupid how they keep saying "you don't even wanna know..."
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T:man
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"Suresh? He's harmless"

I love that line...

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manji
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Just because it's possible that Hiro can get Adam's blood to heal Ando at the last second or change time so that it never happened, doesn't mean that Hiro didn't just kill Ando, that it didn't happen for him. Hiro's supposed to be the pure hero archetype; the ideal he aspires to is something only found in comic books. If he's okay with killing Ando, even in another nonexistent timeline, with zero compunctions, then that's not the same character he was in Season 1, 2, or even the last episode.

Blurring lines between good and evil is okay, and perhaps interesting, but this was a simple case of character derailment.

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Vadon
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I agree with Manji. My problem with Hiro killing Ando is that he always came off as an absolutist when it came to morals. A hero would NEVER use a friend's life as a means to an end. A hero protects people, not kills them. A hero doesn't need to prove himself to anyone but himself.

All that kind of stuff.

His killing Ando, even if temporarily, just really rings as too far out of character in my book.

I am in the group of "This is a trainwreck, but I can't turn away." these days. Though I'll echo what T:man said, "Suresh? He's harmless." rocked.

A diamond in the rough, unfortunately. [Frown]

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Elmer's Glue
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That's what it had been for every character.
Hiro, Sylar, Peter, Mohinder, future Claire...
None of it made any sense.

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Sterling
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I haven't seen the most recent one yet (watching on Netflix), but oh... This is becoming a train wreck.

Just about the only significant character they haven't brought back in actor, function, or spirit is Nicki's husband. And he's one of the few interesting enough that I wouldn't have minded having him back (and I was really annoyed by how they killed him off in a frickin' prologue in season 2.) More paintings! Great! Keeee-rutch.

When Trisha confronted the doctor and said "Do I know you?" I said to my wife "Know you? I created you!"... And then when I was echoed, I had to put my face in my hands.

Can the writers please, please consider the awesome potential of being able to go back in time five minutes and prevent stupid mistakes? And don't give me this "I don't go back in time anymore" nonsense- Hiro went back and forth a few minutes in the opening scenes for fun.

Speaking of which, I guess there's a tacit agreement that we just won't mention the quaint Irish lass we rescued- or possibly obliterated- by dropping in an alternate time-line and then making that timeline never have happened?

I'll grant that it's fun to watch Sylar, and the writing is mostly not the moment-to-moment stupid that infected many scenes in Season 2, but the overall arcs are kind of painful. I can only care how you get from point 'A' to point 'B' (with much foreshadowing) if you can make me believe you aren't pulling it out of your darker orifices, guys...

I also said to someone, perhaps a little harshly, that Heroes doesn't have self-fulfilling prophecies; it only has self-negating ones. Sheesh.

Oh, and did anyone else feel cheated that in the first episode we rendered all the struggles that everyone went through in season one largely irrelevant?...

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Samprimary
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A.V. club update for the last episode [Smile]

http://www.avclub.com/content/tvclub/heroes/angels_and_monsters

quote:
Look, show: I'm not asking that you serve up juicy, multicoursed drama; I'm not asking that you stay on the cutting edge of serialized storytelling; hell, I'm not dying for visual effects–heavy hoo-ha every second of every episode. I just want a decent show about people with superpowers, where the characters ring with some semblance of truth and the plot occasionally keeps me guessing. And every once in a while, I want to see Marlo Stanfield punch through someone.

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Blayne Bradley
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Waaaay to harsh dudes. I think this is a case of "But back in the good ol' days!"
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Sterling
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...Back when there were characters we cared about, plots that weren't hoary cliches, and writing that didn't look like someone failed to go back and fill in the outline?...

You're welcome to enjoy the gruel. Just don't pretend it's something it's not to those who remember meuslix and fresh fruit (or insert your own significantly-better-than-gruel breakfast here).

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
Waaaay to harsh dudes. I think this is a case of "But back in the good ol' days!"

"Back in the good old days" is a perfectly valid response to when something that didn't used to suck now is sucking so dangerously hard that it will not survive in its present state.
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