posted
Arthur isn't really any more powerful than Peter was before. Just smarter... but still not "Smart" unfortunately. There is one very obvious and stupidly easy way to take Arthur out of the picture. The Haitian.
Just get him chasing someone via jumps (most likely Hiro, though maybe Sylar if he ever picks up Teleportation) and end it with a jump to within the proximity of the Haitian. Preferably into a nice holding cell with only one exit. Temporarily disable him, then shuffle the parts of him off into space or something where he's not likely to regain consciousness for a few billion years. Or better yet, take him back in time (still unconscious) to when the Vortex guy made the hole in that one house and let him fall in. Problem (most likely) solved. Or a million other possible solutions that these characters have NEVER thought of...
Posts: 636 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Angela would be capable of killing her husband, but her ability to see the future will always hinder her decision making abilities. How can you ever decide the right course of action when everything leads to negative consequences? The rest of us just deal with them after the fact. She's tempted to head them off ahead of time.
I don't think Peter or Nathan have it in them to kill their own father. He's not a sociopath out to destroy the planet. He thinks he's fixing something. I'm still a little fuzzy on what, but he sees what he's doing as right, and some of that confidence has to carry over to the people who love you.
Sylar's the most likely candidate. He's close enough to be a problem, looking to be the good guy, but still possessed of a killer instinct. When it's obvious that Arthur is doing wrong and can't be saved, I fully expect Sylar to be the one to destroy him.
Posts: 2283 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
This show has really become one of those guilty pleasures. I keep watching it even though it is poorly written, inconsistent, and fast approaching cheesy. But maybe it's the cheese factor that's appealing to me. I've always had a soft spot for cheesy.
So, just off the top of my head:
1. What is up with Arthur, Peter, and Syler's powers? Do they have the same one and each has used it in a different way? Did Peter take Syler's power or his hunger? (If they already shared the same power)
2. How do the heroes come into their powers? It seems very inconsistent. Claire had hers from birth or she wouldn't have survived the fire when she was 1 or 2. Peter was seeing visions before the eclipse, a power he got from his mom. So what did the eclipse do? Anything?
3. If Angela can see the future, why did she try to destroy New York in season 1? Are the alternatives worse? (Actually, a maybe. So far the subsequent seasons have been batting worse futures.)
4. Will Nikki clone die already? Please?
5. Oh, and Mohinder? Pretty Please?
6. What did Arthur do to Hiro? What aspect of his power turned him into a 10-year-old boy and why did he think that would be a useful thing to do? Or if he got stopped doing whatever he was actually trying to do (that's the impression I got), then what was he actually trying to do? That whole thing really confused me and while it was somewhat amusing, it is also annoying.
7. Is there anything consistent about the jumping to and from the future thing? I mean, prophecies and time travel are always a bit difficult to manage plotwise, but there don't seem to be any rules. Future Claire shot future Peter in the CHEST? He had his powers then, so what made her think that would work? Or is this going to turn out to be another one of those really corny, "I was only making it look like I was trying to kill you."
Thins I Like:
1. Though I hate to admit it, because I also wanted him to stay dead at the end of season one, I like Syler/Gabriel. I find his character transformation to be one of the few believable things in the show. I also respect them for pulling off the monumental feat of turning a ruthless serial killer into a decent man.
2. Hiro...although I really hope he doesn't stay 10 for long. I actually really want to see him move towards the future version we've seen.
3. Ando...I loved how he pinched Hiro's forehead to make him teleport them.
4. Matt. I've always had a soft spot for him. I hope Daphne's for real.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by sylvrdragon: There is one very obvious and stupidly easy way to take Arthur out of the picture. The Haitian.
Considering the part the Haitian played in taking him out the first time, you'd think that he would have already had him killed by now.
Posts: 2437 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Christine: 1. What is up with Arthur, Peter, and Syler's powers? Do they have the same one and each has used it in a different way? Did Peter take Syler's power or his hunger? (If they already shared the same power)
I figure that they have similar powers, but not identical. Arthur takes powers and the source loses them. Peter takes powers unconsciously without affecting the source. Gabriel takes powers consciously without necessarily affecting the source.
Of course, it may be that they have the same power, and that Peter and Gabriel just haven't figured out how to remove the powers of others yet.
quote:Originally posted by Christine: 2. How do the heroes come into their powers? It seems very inconsistent. Claire had hers from birth or she wouldn't have survived the fire when she was 1 or 2. Peter was seeing visions before the eclipse, a power he got from his mom. So what did the eclipse do? Anything?
I suspect we'll find out next week. As far as Claire goes, both her mother and her uncle had fire powers. It could be that she was born with invulnerability as an adaptation to protect her from her mother during pregnancy? It could also be that she got the invulnerability from Nathan. He isn't invulnerable exactly the way she is, but how did he heal from the gunshot wounds? Linderman wasn't really there.
quote:Originally posted by Christine: 3. If Angela can see the future, why did she try to destroy New York in season 1? Are the alternatives worse? (Actually, a maybe. So far the subsequent seasons have been batting worse futures.)
Maybe she did it to try and prevent the future we're seeing now. The one with powers all over the place. Maybe the writers just liked Watchmen a whole lot.
quote:Originally posted by Christine: 4. Will Nikki clone die already? Please?
5. Oh, and Mohinder? Pretty Please?
Mohinder, definitely. Ugh. Tracey... well, it'll be interesting to see. Maybe she's playing Arthur.
quote:Originally posted by Christine: 6. What did Arthur do to Hiro? What aspect of his power turned him into a 10-year-old boy and why did he think that would be a useful thing to do?
He was wiping Hiro's mind. He got back to when Hiro was 10. At least that's how it seemed to me.
quote:Originally posted by Christine: 7. Is there anything consistent about the jumping to and from the future thing? I mean, prophecies and time travel are always a bit difficult to manage plotwise, but there don't seem to be any rules. Future Claire shot future Peter in the CHEST? He had his powers then, so what made her think that would work? Or is this going to turn out to be another one of those really corny, "I was only making it look like I was trying to kill you."
I have the same questions.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Wasn't the Hatian around when Claire shot Peter in the chest? I know at the very least the Haitian was there later and that's why Peter never woke up.
quote:I suspect we'll find out next week. As far as Claire goes, both her mother and her uncle had fire powers. It could be that she was born with invulnerability as an adaptation to protect her from her mother during pregnancy? It could also be that she got the invulnerability from Nathan. He isn't invulnerable exactly the way she is, but how did he heal from the gunshot wounds? Linderman wasn't really there.
Well, Nathan did have Claire's blood injected into him in the second season to reverse the effects of Peter going nuclear. Perhaps that had longer lasting effects. Or perhaps it was repeated.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:I figure that they have similar powers, but not identical. Arthur takes powers and the source loses them. Peter takes powers unconsciously without affecting the source. Gabriel takes powers consciously without necessarily affecting the source.
Of course, it may be that they have the same power, and that Peter and Gabriel just haven't figured out how to remove the powers of others yet.
My speculation. Prior to his "death" Arthur doesn't appear to have had the ability to take peoples powers. His ability was to read and manipulate minds. This is why he and the company were so interested in how Gabriel/Sylar was able to take peoples abilities.
So Arthur studied the tapes of Sylar studying peoples brains and figured our how to the process worked most likely while he was "dead". Arthur's mind reading and manipulating powers allowed him to do the same thing without physically exposing the brain. At the same time he learned he could take peoples powers away using the same mind manipulation powers he used to erase Angela's memories.
This means that when he takes peoples powers away, it leaves a scar that might be healed by Linderman or possibly an injection of Claire's blood. I'm betting that at some point in the next couple of episodes, Peter will be critically injured, Claire will inject him with her blood and much to their surprise his powers will be restored.
I'm guessing that Arthur only figured out that the same brain alterations could be achieved through an empathic connection after he took Peter's powers.
So my best guess is that Peter's underlying power is a kind of psychic empathy, Arthur's underlying power is mind reading and manipulation and Gabriel's underlying power is to understand how power works. Under the proper conditions, all three of these powers allow someone with the genetic mutation to acquire the powers manifested by another mutant.
I'm also betting that Arthur was probing Hiros mind because he suspected that Kaito hid the catalyst in his son. If he was trying to find the catalyst. He didn't want to erase his ability before he understood how the catalyst worked and was certain this wouldn't destroy the catalyst. I'm guessing that Hiro's reversion to being 10 years old is a result of the link between Arthur and him being broken before Arthur had finished scanning his memories and wasn't an intensional act.
Now we'll just wait and see how much I've guessed correctly.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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Blayne Bradley
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posted
My theory? Everyone's power is the "same" understanding how something works, however peoples brains are only so capable and 99% of the time can only understand one thing, but some people have a greater range of understanding and can do many things.
But anyways, I believe Arthurs power was close to Peters all along, he was friends with marty or whatever his name was for a while right?
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If you (rabbit) are right then Matt could take powers too. Clair's blood would probably work, or possibly the Haitian could do it.
Just thought of something. If Peter's power is so rare, why did the invisible man say "oh, one of those," (or whatever) when he figured out what his power was?
Posts: 1287 | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
Rabbit -- The one flaw I see in your theory about Arthur not being able to take powers until after he died is that Adam was definitely afraid of him. He begged him not to do it, that he could be useful to him. As Arthur simply copying his powers would not have hurt him, I have to assume that this was always how his power worked.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
Adam could have been afraid of Arthur's mindmanipulating powers and unaware that something more malicious was possible. Adam's ability to heal might have meant that Arthur couldn't erase the memories of his manipulating Adam.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
We still don't know how the Haitian suppresses peoples powers but it does seem to go with his ability to selectively erase memories.
Interestingly, at least thus far the memory loss has been permanent but the loss of powers only lasts as long as they are in proximity to the Haitian. I wonder if the Haitian simply chooses to make the loss of powers temporary of if he doesn't know or isn't able to make the memory loss permanent.
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Blayne Bradley
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posted
Or maybe Arthur told Adam what he was going to do.
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Hmmmm...without Adam's powers he turns to dust. So if Adam had ever come into contact with the Haitian, he would have died?
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
I'm not sure. The Haitian doesn't take the powers away. He just suppresses them. I suspect that in the presence of the Haitian, Adam would have been vulnerable, but he wouldn't have died.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Well, it didn't make sense that he turned to dust, so no use trying to see what the Haitian would do to him.
Posts: 1287 | Registered: Apr 2006
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Blayne Bradley
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posted
And people shooting lightning bolts and going back in time makes more sense?
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Fine. Any scifi or fantasy doesn't need any logic. I mean, come on, those genres are for stupid people.
Posts: 1287 | Registered: Apr 2006
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Yeah but generally even within the wacky rules of the show they try and stay consistent (or at least, some shows do).
Rabbit -
Wouldn't it be easier just to assume that Arthur could always steal powers, just like his kids can, and that he stole the psychic power from someone else?
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Wouldn't it be easier just to assume that Arthur could always steal powers, just like his kids can, and that he stole the psychic power from someone else?
Perhaps, but I don't think that hypothesis fits the data.
First off, Neither Peter nor Gabriel were always capable of getting powers from others. Both of them learned how to do it, although in different ways. This suggests that Arthur also had to learn how to do it -- leaving only the questions how and when.
Second, We know that the company thought it was extremely important to understand how Gabriel was able to transfer powers. If Arthur already knew the answer, why would they find it so important to study the question, even to the point of deliberately creating a homicidal maniac to do it. Bennet says specifically that they are making tapes that will be studied. Perhaps I'm giving the writers too much credit but it seems like there is likely a point to this subplot.
Third, At the time of Arthur's death, Peter's powers hadn't yet manifest. If Arthur's ability to take other's power also hadn't manifest, it would justify Bennet's comment about the power being extremely rare. Once again I may be giving the writers too much credit, but unless my speculation is correct Bennet's comment is such a glaringly obvious error that anyone should be able to pick it up. If this power is so rare, why do we now have three characters who can do it in three different ways.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
I should add, I don't think my hypothesis necessarily precludes the possibility that Arthur acquired his psychic power from someone else. I think its common for people to get lucky and be able to do something once only to find they can't repeat it. Maybe acquiring the psychic power made Arthur aware that it was possible even though he didn't understand the process enough to repeat it. That may have been the motivation for studying Gabriel/Sylar.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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1. About studying Sylar--- they weren't interested in seeing Sylar use his powers, or seeing how he stole abilities. They believed that he had already killed once, but they couldn't "suppress" him unless he was "caught in the act". They goaded him to kill again. And as for capturing him, they tend to try to capture rather than kill --- probably for more reasons than have been revealed. They might have been trying to study the mimicry, but not because they hadn't seen it --- but Arthur probably didn't submit himself to study.
2. Claire shot Peter with the Haitian near, so that he WOULD die.
3. Peter, Gabriel, and the father all have the EXACT same power. Peter and Gabriel were two different types of people, so the power manifested differently. Arthur probably doesn't HAVE to take people's powers to replicate them, he probably just does because he's evil, it makes him feel more "special", or it "defangs" his enemies.
4. The empathy power IS rare, but that doesn't mean that it can't be passed to one's children. Many of the other powers have been shown to manifest more frequently --- flying, visions of the future, immortality. Only one man and his two sons have the empathetic mimicry --- that we know of.
5. If mind reading evolved into "stealing powers", we would have certainly seen it from Maury. If anything, Maury as Arthur's confidant proved that Arthur could replicate a power WITHOUT stealing it from the host.
6. Another point, people think that Arthur took all of Peter's mimic'ed powers, but I don't think that's the case. I think he just took his empathy mimicry. Peter doesn't TAKE people's powers, he just learns how they work in a fashion, like Gabriel does. I think Arthur just already had a pretty heavy repetoire of powers.
Posts: 688 | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
Hmmmm...now here's a thought, and this may be giving the writers WAY too much credit and probably isn't true, but I think it would be neat:
What if Arthur didn't actually take Peter's powers? Maybe he just made Peter think he had. He could have used any number of acquired powers to one up Peter and suppress his abilities from manifesting. He was more experienced, after all.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
I think he did take his powers, and that those powers will come back when the eclipse comes, he'll be one of the very few with powers when everyone else loses theirs.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Christine: Hmmmm...now here's a thought, and this may be giving the writers WAY too much credit and probably isn't true, but I think it would be neat:
What if Arthur didn't actually take Peter's powers? Maybe he just made Peter think he had. He could have used any number of acquired powers to one up Peter and suppress his abilities from manifesting. He was more experienced, after all.
Peter was hurt when he hit the ground. Yes, Gabriel cushioned it a bit, but he didn't survive it the way he would have had he still had his powers.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Sylar's power is not the same as Arthur or Peters Power. Here is what they are:
Peter: Peter absorbs a power whether he wants to or not. He does not exactly have to know what the power is or how to use it. If you remember back in the first season he absorbed Invisible Man's power and was using it without realizing it. (Speaking of which, I don't know why he didn't just go into Pinehurst Invisible to check things out first)
Arthur: Arthur is sort of a "Vampire" when it comes to power. He feeds off of other people with powers and absorbs them through touch. He said as much in the latest episode when he was speaking to Sylar.
Sylar: Sylar is the most interesting. Sylar's power is the power of understanding. He can see how things work. That is why he was such a good watch maker, and this was also the reason why he studied the brains of those he killed. I think what he learned in this latest episode was how to understand by studying how the person used the abilities, not how the person's brain worked.
I believe that Sylars power has been strengthened considerably by the power he gained by killing the woman that could tell the history of an object by touching it. Once he touched Elle, it gave him knowledge of her whole history. This enabled him to relate to her and to know what she had gone through, and to understand how to help her with the emotional pain she felt.
Posts: 45 | Registered: Oct 2008
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quote:1. About studying Sylar--- they weren't interested in seeing Sylar use his powers, or seeing how he stole abilities. They believed that he had already killed once, but they couldn't "suppress" him unless he was "caught in the act". They goaded him to kill again. And as for capturing him, they tend to try to capture rather than kill --- probably for more reasons than have been revealed. They might have been trying to study the mimicry, but not because they hadn't seen it --- but Arthur probably didn't submit himself to study.
Possible but it pretty much contradicts what was said. No point in arguing about it, we will see what the writers had in mind sooner or later.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Blindsay --- Arthur outright explained Empathy to Sylar. That he can access the power from an emotional level.
Sylar just made analytical connections to people before, not emotional ones. Now, he's able to access his power identically to Peter.
Perhaps Arthur's only letting people THINK he has to touch them. Or perhaps he's incapable of making an emotional connection.
But he obviously knew that Sylar could access his power that way. So at least we know that both Gabriel and Peter have the same power --- AND that Arthur knew it and knew how to access it.
But Arthur stole Peter's power as well, and he still touched and stole powers. Either he can mimic but he can't take away other people's powers without touch, he doesn't want anyone to know that he can, or he isn't capable of an emotional empathy.
Posts: 688 | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
I think that Peter, Sylar, and Arthur all have the exact same power. They explained that the power stealing power had to do with empathy. They have to have empathy for the people to get their powers. (Sylar was previously doing it through his knowledge power.)
Peter has so much empathy for everyone around him that he can take all their powers without even having to think about it. Sylar previously had no empathy, so he had to root around in their heads for a while to get it, and now that he is a "good guy" he has enough empathy that he can get the powers a lot easier. Arthur doesn't have much empathy at all, just enough to steal the powers when he touches somebody.
Posts: 49 | Registered: Sep 2008
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posted
Then why does Arthur's power remove the powers of others when neither of his sons work that way? Or are you suggesting that they can remove the powers of others, but just don't realize it yet?
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Lisa: Then why does Arthur's power remove the powers of others when neither of his sons work that way? Or are you suggesting that they can remove the powers of others, but just don't realize it yet?
I think they do have the same power and I would say that either they CAN remove powers but don't know it yet OR that the power removal thing is an illusion. Empathic ability has often been used to manipulate others feelings and often powers like these work on an emotional level.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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It's a terrible pity that they're in a plot that doesn't make any sense...
I mean, a superhero show with a small set of characters, family members, who possess the same exact nigh-ultimate power, but end up activating and using it through different means because each of them is different in personality and the basic way they work, seems quite interesting.
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by ricree101: We've already seen the last issue (he handed it to that one guy before Sylar got him), so unless they're just keeping back issues on the shelves of every random comic book store it really needs an explanation.
Oh, yes, din'cha know? Isaac made up several issues of 9 Wonders that no one saw before his death, and sent them off to the publisher. Along with the paintings he did that no one had seen or heard of before from last season. Next season, we'll discover the naughty prophetic postcards he made during his spare time.
I am increasingly convinced that trying to follow this show with expectations of consistency or the idea that one can actually make reasonable conclusions about the way anything "works" based on past evidence is a route to madness, or at least disappointment.
And while I agree that Sylar is becoming more interesting, I think it's a matter of relativity. He's the only character who seems to have been plotted on a course with a halfway believable, character-grounded path in mind. The rest of them are turning into a set of excuses for doing what the writers think needs to be done at any particular moment, and worse, I'm not convinced the writers have a really tight and cohesive grasp on where they're going.
Posts: 3826 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
I think a big part of Sylar's story being more interesting and believable is the acting. He is a pretty good actor, especially when compared to Claire, Maya and Nikki.
Posts: 1287 | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Lisa: Then why does Arthur's power remove the powers of others when neither of his sons work that way? Or are you suggesting that they can remove the powers of others, but just don't realize it yet?
I think they do have the same power and I would say that either they CAN remove powers but don't know it yet OR that the power removal thing is an illusion. Empathic ability has often been used to manipulate others feelings and often powers like these work on an emotional level.
So Adam's death was psychosomatic? Wow, you're really pushing it, aren't you?
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Lisa: So Adam's death was psychosomatic? Wow, you're really pushing it, aren't you?
Makes about as much sense to me as it does for him to crumble away the second he can no longer heal himself.
Posts: 2437 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Arthur did explain to Sylar about his power. The reason I do not believe they have the same power (at least initially) is the hunger. This is what is different between Sylar and Peter. Peter did not have the hunger until he received it from Sylar in the future.
Arthur however seems to have the same hunger as Sylar. He told Sylar that it all had to do with getting more power. As far as I know Peter did not have this hunger. This could have something to do however with the type of personality of each individual
Posts: 45 | Registered: Oct 2008
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posted
I've really just stopped watching, and I was pretty much the last in my entire peer group. I was about to give up hope on even trying to convince people that the show is a property — a potential — worth saving and perpetuating because everyone's turning against it so harshly and fewer and fewer people even expected the show to survive or recover.
However, even though I think the show's a clownboat-wreck at this point, I am reserving the right to be optimistic.
CASE IN POINT:
1. As we know, coexecutive producers Jeph Loeb and Jesse Alexander were, thankfully, fired from the show. Loeb in particular was a concern: if you look at how dreadful his work has been in the comic book medium, you see a lot of parallels to the elements of the show which are murdering its appeal and cohesiveness.
2. Kring has also said that they'll stop using time travel and seeing the future as plot crutches.
3. Between (1) and (2) you can extrapolate that Kring admits folly in over-comicbooketeering the show.
4. Pushing Daisies got canceled, bringing Bryan Fuller back into the Heroes fold. Fuller is responsible for the best that Heroes has ever attained, and he now may be in a position to save Heroes.
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