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I don't know about that. Tru wasn't Faith. She was way more vulnerable, and didn't have a fraction of Faith's edge. I don't see Caroline being Faith either.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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My predictions about next week are that one of two things will happen:
1. Echo will escape the dollhouse after meeting up with Ballard. She will be imprinted with her personality du jour, which will now be permanent, so she will struggle with not really knowing who she is. She and Ballard will work together to bring down the dollhouse, and her personal connection with Victor and Sierra will work to her advantage.
2. Ballard will get too close, find out too much, and will be forced to choose between becoming an active and death, just as Echo did once upon a time.
I think part of the problem with the show as it stands is that nobody is in a position to truly love or care for one another. As such, the show feels heartless and none of the characters feel quite human. Also, the owners of the dollhouse seem to be shaping into the villains, so we're not supposed to relate to them. That only leaves Ballard and Boyd as the "hearts" of the show, and neither of them really fit the part. I really think Echo needs to get out of the dollhouse.
Posts: 1903 | Registered: Sep 2003
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I like that the geeky scientist is arguably the most morally deranged and powerful of the lot. It's the mid-level dweeb who is really the engine for the dollhouse. Usually those guys are cast as benign or naive, but his eyes are wide open.
There seems to be a relationship budding between the doctor and the ex-cop. Even the head of security may not be such a black hat villain, and watching the head lady's world start to unravel may be neat. It's always nice to see control freaks come face to face with human finitude and the unpredictability of the future. She is doing well so far, but there is a potential for really explosive scenes.
Posts: 5600 | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong: Even the head of security may not be such a black hat villain
Agreed. He's accurately perceiving that Echo is headed down the same path that Alpha travelled, and Alpha is very dangerous and, from his perspective, clearly evil. It makes sense for him to try to get rid of Echo before she can become the threat that Alpha is.
Now, we've seen stuff from before he began to actively suspect Echo that indicates that he's an unplesant person, but that doesn't make him evil.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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I disagree with the fact that Topher is utterly moral deranged. When he and the doctor realised that Victor liked Sierra both of them were delighted and then depressed when told that this must be scrubbed out of Victor.
I do not think he is benign or naive. I think it's perfectly possible to be involved in morally bankrupt scientific endeavours and not be utterly evil yourself, even if you're not just following orders.
Take Claire, for example. I do not see her being on any scale evil or bad. She does not hate Topher, although she does not like him.
quote:Even the head of security may not be such a black hat villain
Echo's instinctive dislike of him seems to suggest otherwise, unless we are to distrust her feelings.
quote:Now, we've seen stuff from before he began to actively suspect Echo that indicates that he's an unplesant person, but that doesn't make him evil.
I'm not sure anyone is definitively evil at the moment.
quote:I think part of the problem with the show as it stands is that nobody is in a position to truly love or care for one another.
Nor do I think this is true. Claire cares for the dolls and I think Topher, in his way, does too, as does the Leader Lady. Boyd cares personally for Echo, this has been made abundantly clear.
If anything, it is Ballard who has demonstrated the least empathy. He fills the gap left for a hero but so far we have not been presented with someone who demonstrates heroic qualities. He lacks empathy in general, which is not to say he doesn't legitimately want to get the dollhouse people, or feel that what they are doing is wrong, or be right about that fact. But I think that it is wrong to think of Ballard as the heart of the show.
I think Echo is supposed to be the heart of the show. Mostly everyone is better disposed towards her than anyone else.
Clearly episode six has Ballard and Echo meet and once they have there can only be a few logical directions, but I don't really see Echo ceasing to be a doll, although it is possible, at least for a short time.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Echo's instinctive dislike of him seems to suggest otherwise, unless we are to distrust her feelings.
What instinctive dislike? Are you referring to the end of this last episode? I chalk that up to her remembering him attacking her.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Brinestone: My predictions about next week are that one of two things will happen:
1. Echo will escape the dollhouse after meeting up with Ballard. She will be imprinted with her personality du jour, which will now be permanent, so she will struggle with not really knowing who she is. She and Ballard will work together to bring down the dollhouse, and her personal connection with Victor and Sierra will work to her advantage.
2. Ballard will get too close, find out too much, and will be forced to choose between becoming an active and death, just as Echo did once upon a time.
I think part of the problem with the show as it stands is that nobody is in a position to truly love or care for one another. As such, the show feels heartless and none of the characters feel quite human. Also, the owners of the dollhouse seem to be shaping into the villains, so we're not supposed to relate to them. That only leaves Ballard and Boyd as the "hearts" of the show, and neither of them really fit the part. I really think Echo needs to get out of the dollhouse.
When I read this, I started to wonder if we were watching the same show. My ideas of what the show is and what they are trying to do far removed from these comments that it's difficult to know how to approach them. I thought I was watching a show that is essentially a search for the human soul. As such, it is not at all heartless or inhuman -- just the opposite!
I figure Echo may leave the dollhouse for a time at some point, but not yet. She's not ready. They've already shown that she can be remotely wiped or made to remember her past in some way and I think they will build on that for a while.
What I'm intrigued by is the motivations of the people who work at the dollhouse. As someone pointed out, mid-level dweeb has his eyes wide open. So why's he doing it? Why's Boyd doing it? The doctor? For good or evil, I hope the show brings out these motivations.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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Someone on the inside trying to find out the true purpose of The Dollhouse? Global conspiracy? 20 dollhouses? Echo being programmed to bring down the dollhouse because someone on the inside is actively programming her and passively ruining the process? EEEk eeeeek giddy giddy. Finally a new show I can totally get into. w00t!
Didn't see that coming.
Posts: 2445 | Registered: Oct 2004
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I was a little wary of the speech Echo gave the FBI guy. It did make sense for it to be true, but it might have been part of their manipulation of him.
Anyway, as promised the show got a lot better. Here's hoping it stays that way.
Posts: 4136 | Registered: Aug 2008
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Could be someone on the inside trying to figure out what's going on...could be the boss lady playing her games. I mean, she did send that handler to his death in the same episode. She's quite resourceful.
I wasn't liking the FBI guy until this episode but suddenly his role started to make more sense. I loved the neighbor being a sleeper agent (suspected something of the sort, actually).
Agreed...20 dollhouses? And a possible bigger motive for the dollhouse than profit is definitely something I can get behind.
Very exciting developments!
On a separate but related note:
Did anyone else think this could have been a better first episode than the original? The man on the street, which somewhat annoyed me, also served to introduce the concept of the dollhouse far better than they originally did. Also, this episode made the FBI guy the focus, giving viewers that one character they can sympathize with. (Though I don't have a problem not specifically sympathizing with anyone.)
I'm in this one for the long haul. Now, PLEASE DON'T CANCEL!
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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It was a very impressive improvement from the previous episodes. It makes me wonder why I sat through those first five and didn't just start now. It really was another show entirely.
Posts: 1831 | Registered: Jan 2003
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I can't remember the line, but it was something like "it's what we do, but it's not our purpose."
Makes me think of Primatech paper, and morally grey. I wonder of the Dollhouse is working against its network of wealthy and powerful clients, a conspiracy against a conspiracy.
Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002
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Now that BSG is done, we have another show where anyone could reveal themselves to be a sleeper agent at any time. The agent on the inside who altered the imprint might not even know what s/he did.
The question is, is Mellie a total doll, through and through, her original personality wiped to fill this role, or was she just nudged into lliking Paul, and imprinted with triggerable combat abilities.
Because Paul may not want to rescue the girl the Mellie started out to be, if her current personality is a doll. It's very hard to argue that the current personality isn't a person, who has just as much right to exist as the old personality did.
Posts: 575 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Christine: ... And a possible bigger motive for the dollhouse than profit is definitely something I can get behind.
It has been something I've been wondering. Even the big amounts of cash that they collect from clients seems to be small compared to the cost of this facility, the technology involved, and the cost of secrecy. It would make sense if there was a bigger game afoot like capturing loads of blackmail information on their clients which tend to be the rich and powerful, using that to gain power behind the scenes.
Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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I bet there's quite a bit of Manchurian Candidate things going on. Perhaps a few dolls are in public office that help guarantee that they won't lose funding. Maybe they kidnap current politicians and just program in a desire to keep the Dollhouse operational and leave every other memory in tact.
There's a lot of potential. I love it. Posts: 1831 | Registered: Jan 2003
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This got a terrible review from someone in People Magazine who apparently did like Buffy and Firefly.
Posts: 930 | Registered: Dec 2006
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I had a weird moment of deja vu yesterday. I've been watching Buffy on hulu, and I just yesterday got to the episode where Buffy and Faith are having this massive fight over whether Faith is going to kill Angel. About two thirds of the way through, I was thinking to myself, "This fight is going on too long."
Then last night, when Faith...I mean, Echo...was fighting with the FBI guy, I thought, "This fight is going on too..."
posted
Bad, lame television: 5 The home viewership: 1
If the next four episodes are good, it'll be a tie. As good as this last episode was, I still find myself disappointed by that....
Posts: 2267 | Registered: May 2005
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I will be really, really surprised if this show isn't canceled, and pleasantly surprised if they leave it on long enough to show us all the episodes they've made.
Had it not been for JW's name on the project, I would not have watched past the first episode. It improved steadily, but I suspect it is doomed.
I will be pleased to be proven wrong, though.
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Ooo, I believe this show has officially hit its stride. This episode was excellent. The characters were all interesting - lovely.
Posts: 910 | Registered: May 2000
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This episode was great, but I think Fox's meddling with the first five effectively sabotaged the ratings enough to spell its doom.
I'll keep watching until they turn out the lights, though. And I'll keep a sharp eye on when they change the day and time.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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I agree that this last episode was a success.
I think either Echo's speech was part of Boss Lady's manipulation, or Topher's apprentice (possibly in league with Boyd) is the mole.
Anyone who DIDN'T suspect Neighbor girl as an active must have been watching a different show. I was actually kinda sad that it came true considering how blatantly obvious it was.
As for the Dollhouse being a cover for a bigger conspiracy, there are really only ever 3 motives for conspiracy: Money, Faith, or Patriotism (Politics 'For the greater good'). Well, I should say for a "Large Scale" conspiracy, as I'm sure the Pride of some rich powerful person could create some waves beneath the surface, but it doesn't seem likely when so many people are apparently involved.
I suppose there could be some sorta sci-fi "Save the world" plot, but so far, I can't really see a way to pull that off, so I'm banking with one of the big 3.
Posts: 636 | Registered: Apr 2002
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Boy did Fox frack up the first five or so. This was definitely a completely different show. All I have to say: He's baaack!
And once again in a situation where someone's screwing with him and not just letting him do his thing. Hopefully they'll realize that it was their screwing with him that got the bad ratings and reviews and give him enough time to do his thing and bring the good.
Posts: 3295 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Holy cow, that was a good episode. The story was interesting, the characters were engaging, and there were enough twists and turns to interest me. I have to admit I wasn't expecting Millie to be a doll, mostly because I had a pet theory she was unknowingly in league with Alpha.
This episode wasn't even about Echo, which probably also makes it the best episode ever. She was in maybe what, three scenes? The people surrounding her in and out of the dollhouse are far more interesting.
Posts: 4089 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Out of curiosity, where do you get the rating information you keep going on about? People keep saying that the show has bad ratings, is in danger of getting canceled...based on???
I've never been clear what makes a show succeed and what makes it fail. I tend not to watch new shows because quite frankly, the ones I get into get canceled. The ones that suck go on for years and years. So suckage doesn't seem to have much to do with the success or failure of a show. Let's not forget that Fox put this thing on Fridya night, which has to be the worst time slot imaginable. Makes me wonder how much faith they had in the show in the first place.
And for the record, while I thought that episode 6 was once again an improvement over the one before, I enjoyed the first 5 and still do not see what all the hostility towards them is about. It's a good show.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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Ahh, finally a good episode. All of the previous five were standard rehashes of standard tropes. Man chasing girl to kill her. Girl as whore. Girl in cult. My husband hated the first five episodes and said he might actually like the show now!
Posts: 315 | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Out of curiosity, where do you get the rating information you keep going on about? People keep saying that the show has bad ratings, is in danger of getting canceled...based on???
There are various websites that have information on ratings. I'm not sure which is the best, but if you google it I'm sure you can find something helpful. Ratings are based purely on how many people watch in each demographic (which is ultimately all that matters to advertisers). Unfortunately "good" shows tend to have more complicated plots that make it harder for a random person to show up and start watching.
By contrast, if you turn on the TV set and happen to find myself halfway through any given sitcom, you can usually count on being reasonably entertained for 20 minutes. The very fact that the plot is so bland and predictable makes it easy to just start watching.
Posts: 4136 | Registered: Aug 2008
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On the ratings question, I just check the wikipedia page. They have a list of episodes down lower with rating information and how many viewers there were in millions. (According to Nielson.)
It's actually out performing Terminator right now.
For the most part, it's holding steady (and, as noted, is outperforming its lead-in show). And a big thing to note, this episode ran against the NCAA tournament and the finale of Battlestar Galactica. Given that, holding steady is nothing short of amazing.
Also, DVR numbers add a third again to those numbers. I don't know how much FOX takes that into account, but this show has a huge percentage of time-shifted viewers.
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:And for the record, while I thought that episode 6 was once again an improvement over the one before, I enjoyed the first 5 and still do not see what all the hostility towards them is about. It's a good show.
Me too.
Patton Oswalt was great and it was really interesting that Echo remembered the assignment and wanted to finish it. And Eliza Dushku was really funny when she said, "Porn!" when she was being removed.
Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
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I'm curious how much time-shifted viewers can be taken account. Ratings numbers are used to woo advertisers... and DVR pretty much kills commercial advertising.
Though Dollhouse has had its fair share of product placement, which would have to be taken into account with time-shifted viewing.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: I'm curious how much time-shifted viewers can be taken account. Ratings numbers are used to woo advertisers... and DVR pretty much kills commercial advertising.
Though Dollhouse has had its fair share of product placement, which would have to be taken into account with time-shifted viewing.
And there's Hulu. How is that taken into account for continued production? It is one of the most popular shows on the website.
Posts: 1831 | Registered: Jan 2003
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Advertising is getting trickier and trickier. DVR and the internet are killing the commercial advertising model.
It makes me wonder if, once DVRs become as standard as VCRs did, there will be even more of a push into product placement over commercials. And, if so, what happens to shows that can't manage any product placement because of their subject matter?
I feel the advertising/funding paradigm of television is set to shift dramatically over the next few years.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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First, I'm really impressed with Hulu. Great quality, minimal commercials, and I can watch it when I want? Excellent. I haven't been watching live television for a long time now, and every time I do, I can feel the brains leaking out of my ears.
Second, what a great episode! I think my jaw fell slack three times. And I really liked the whole thing with the rich Internet guy.
posted
I was pretty sure she was, but during that episode I started doubting since she was urging the Fed to keep investigating. Darn you, Whedon!
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Chris Bridges: I was pretty sure she was, but during that episode I started doubting since she was urging the Fed to keep investigating. Darn you, Whedon!
I actually was going back and forth through the whole episode. After Victor was revealed as an active I was immediately suspicious of anyone who the agent works with or around. But after how happy they seemed in this episode, I stopped suspecting. Then the boss-lady (haven't memorized her name yet) was watching with a camera so I was suspecting her again. Then she told evil-handler to kill her so I thought that she was not an active...
I just kept bouncing back and forth and having my perceptions twisted. I loved every minute of it.
Posts: 1831 | Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Fyfe: I suspected she was. She just had such a sweet innocent face and such sweet innocent lasagna.
In my world, having an innocent face and making home-cooked meals is not suspicious.
Although I should have been suspicious that they kept paying more attention to her than her role seemed to deserve.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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I just came to realize that, regardless of Fox's meddling, there really is no excuse for the average poor quality of the first five episodes. Whedon should start taking responsibility for producing poor quality material. He blames the failure of the Buffy movie and Alien Resurrection on their directors. And now he keeps hinting that he wasn't in full control of the production of these first five eps...come on.
Posts: 532 | Registered: Feb 2009
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It hadn't occurred to me that he might not have been an active all along, but now that you mention the possibility I find myself liking it.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Besides the rantings of the guy that was caught during this last episode, have we seen any indication that the Dollhouse ever turns people into dolls without their consent?
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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We haven't, but it's the type of abuse that I would expect to see creep into he system, were that technology to exist in real life.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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