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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Lost Season 6 (Page 13)

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Author Topic: Lost Season 6
msquared
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Is the young boy Jacob? Or maybe Aaron?

msquared

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Strider
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I thought the original young boy was Jacob. But this one was different. Seemed a bit older. But not JUST older. My initial reaction is that it was a young Esau. But i'm not sure how that would work out exactly.
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Tresopax
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I think it has to be the same person at different ages... I'm still thinking young Jacob.
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Hobbes
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This is the first episode where I felt they'd actually moved us closer to a conclusion instead of just dragging out the drama. Which makes it my favorite episode of the season.

I also like the Desmond inclusions, it feels like he's actually taking meaningful initiative which is rare for characters in the show now days. Normally they seem to stumble about, make a bold decision, and then reverse it in about 10 minutes of show time.

Hobbes [Smile]

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docmagik
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Okay, this probably won't turn out to be true, but right now it could, and it's fun, so I'll share:

Okay, so we've been seeing the "original timeline" start to affect the alternate timeline. Jack's scar, things like that. Now two weeks ago, it started going full boar, with people remembering the alternate timeline, starting with the people who died AND were in love, then to people who were one or the other. Same pattern this week, Libby remembers, then Hurley.

What we've only been seeing a little is that going the other way. The only sign we've seen is that Sun is forgetting english. That seems to be a sign of the alternate universe bleeding back into the universe we know. So I was trying to think if there were any other signs of the alternate universe "bleeding back" into the original timeline.

And I got to thinking . . . now that Locke has been hit by Desmonds car, hes going to be taken to the hospital. And at the hospital, he's going to meet Jack again. And Jack could just possibly do not only lifesaving surgery, but fix his spine so he can walk again.

This made me think . . . what if all the crazy stuff that's happened on the island, like Locke being able to walk, wasn't "the island" alone, but is bleedback from the alternate universe? Locke was able to walk because, in the alternate universe, Jack healed him, and the realities started to overlap that soon?

We know Sun is pregnant in the Alt timeline, which means Jin isn't impotent in the alt timeline. So maybe he was healed on the island because of bleed-through from the other timeline.

And now Desmond is the new Jacob, going around doing the things that will make everything right. He hit Locke with his car not out of revenge, but because of the actions he knows it will set in motion.

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Bokonon
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Or more to the point, what if Locke temporarily losing the ability to walk several season's back was due to Desmond hitting Locke in the alt-timeline... Since the alt-timeline is in 2004, and the canonical timeline is in 2007.

Hmm.

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Geraine
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Thing is, I don't think Desmond is a candidate.

Over the past few episodes Jack has change immensly. He knew Hurley was lying but still put his faith in him. The way he acts and speaks is different has changed. I still think that Jack is going to be Jack's replacement.

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Raymond Arnold
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quote:
I still think that Jack is going to be Jack's replacement.
Unlikely.
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Geraine
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I see what I did there. I meant Jacob's replacement. [Razz]
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JonnyNotSoBravo
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They have told us who/what the whispers are, which is cool. And apparently certain people, like Walt, can tap into that, like calling the Psychic Friends Network. And certain people, like John Locke, can dream the future, like he did with Boone ("Teresa falls up the stairs, Teresa falls down the stairs").

I'm rewatching the series from Season 1 on the ABC website, and it's fascinating, although not nearly as thrilling as the first time through,

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Uprooted
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Okay, I'm looking forward to reading what everyone has to say.

Interesting symmetry -- last time Sawyer jumped out of the plane when Jack was the leader, now roles are reversed.

Where was Sayid when Jack returned to the island? I didn't see him with the others there on the beach (or should I say Others)?

Loved the question Desmond asked Sayid. Loved alt-Desmond too.

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daventor
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I don't care what F-Locke, Smokey, Lockeness Monster whatever-the-heck-you-call-him or crazy Claire says, that was Jack's genuine Ghost-Dad back in the first season.

And since they've still not shown sideways Jack's ex-wife, I'm definitely on board with the theory that says it must be Juliette.

I can't remember if Sayid was there with Locke and Jack at the end, but the others definitely were there (and are probably now all little piles of ash on the beach).

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msquared
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I missed the last minute of the show (damn vcr tape). Widmores group had just had them get down on their knees.

What happened then?

msquared

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theCrowsWife
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SPOILERS, OBVIOUSLY

Widmore's second (what was her name?) told them that the deal was off, and then she gave the order to attack Locke over the walkie. Back at the beach, Jack stumbles out of the water and is met by Locke and the rest of his group. Locke asks if Sawyer stole his boat and Jack confirms it. Then the explosions start and Jack is thrown to the sand and is dazed. Locke picks him up and takes him into the jungle and says something along the lines of "You'll be ok. You're with me now."

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Tammy
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"...she's been drinking Locke's Kool-aid"

I do love Sawyer's one liners. I'm getting a little more depressed after each show. What am I going to do without Sawyer and Hurley?

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Lisa
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I loved seeing Sawyer taking charge again. That three years running security for Dharma really did him a world of good. He's a better leader than Jack, in my opinion.

So Sayid lied to FakeLocke, right? Soulless or not, I don't think he actually shot him.

I teared up a little when Sun and Jin reunited. About time, too.

So... did Desmond run Locke down for the sole purpose of restoring his ability to walk? Since Locke wasn't going to go to Jack on his own, I mean. He really is out to fix everything, isn't he.

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Strider
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whistled.

Real thoughts to come shortly!

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Geraine
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Wait a second.... Maybe .. Just maybe.. Juliette is an FBI agent in the alt timeline.. And David's middle name is Tyler and the V's come and he falls in love with a V!

On a more serious note... I don't think Jack is with Locke. He was adamant about staying on the island, and he isn't going to let Locke off the island.

I like how we saw that Sayid still seems to have some thoughts of his own, and hasn't turned completely.

I also hope that Widmore's #2 girl dies. I REALLY don't like the character. For some reason she annoys me so much I can't stand listening to her. The last time I felt that way was Keanny (However you spell it) when he was on the island. More so after he killed Alex.

I also still think that Locke was lying to Jack about his father. Locke hesitated when he told Jack it was him. That and we also have Jack's father appearing to him back in LA once Jack was off the island. If Locke was trapped he would not have been able to do that.

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theCrowsWife
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
I teared up a little when Sun and Jin reunited. About time, too.

That was really nice, but I was more than half expecting them both to get fried by that sonic fence as they ran to each other. Really glad that didn't happen!

--Mel

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Tammy
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quote:
Originally posted by Geraine:


I also still think that Locke was lying to Jack about his father. Locke hesitated when he told Jack it was him. That and we also have Jack's father appearing to him back in LA once Jack was off the island. If Locke was trapped he would not have been able to do that.

Oooh, good thought! I'd forgotten about that.
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Tammy
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quote:
Originally posted by theCrowsWife:
quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
I teared up a little when Sun and Jin reunited. About time, too.

That was really nice, but I was more than half expecting them both to get fried by that sonic fence as they ran to each other. Really glad that didn't happen!

--Mel

TOO funny...I was thinking the same thing. It just shows that the producers have us all confused and jumpy.
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Strider
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Someone I was watching with actually YELLED out to them to stop running because of the fence!
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Craig Childs
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quote:
Yeah, at the end of the last season I started on a list of questions I thought they needed to answer (at least a little), but I've largely forgotten what they were.

I think it would be interesting to try, as a group, to compile and prioritize such a list before the season starts.

With 4 episodes to go, I think it is now obvious that most questions won't be answered, not even the ones I consider MAJOR questions. Here are the BIG ONES on my list (I've left off several minor questions that probably have no significant bearing on the story):

Walt
• What are Walt’s powers? Can he see the future? (He warned Locke not to open the hatch)
• Why did the Others want to study him? What did they learn?

Claire
• Why did she Claire abandon Aaron in the woods (S4)? Why did she join with with Christian Shepherd/MIB?

Locke
• How did Locke’s father get to the island? Was it really his father? (“The Man From Tallahassee”)

Hurley
• What is the meaning behind Hurley’s cursed numbers?
o Why are the numbers engraved on Swan Hatch?
o Why do the numbers show up in unexpected places – on medicine bottles or as computer passwords

[OK. Partially answered by Valenzetti Equation and Jacob's numbers, but those are weak explanations IMO]

Charlie
• Charlie sacrificed his life because Desmond saw a future in which Claire and Aaron boarded a helicopter to get off the island. Will Desmond’s vision come true?

Charles Widmore
• Was it coincidence that Desmond landed on the same island his would-be father-in-law was trying to find?
• What are/were the “rules” of Widmore’s war with Ben? (When Alex is murdered, Ben says in disbelief “He changed the rules”)
• Did Widmore kill Sayid’s wife Nadia? If so, why? If not, did Ben do it as a ploy to recruit Sayid as his assassin?
• Why did Eloise and Charles send their son back in time to die? (“The Variable”) Have they been manipulating events all this time just to make sure the timeline doesn’t get altered? Or perhaps are they trying to alter a timeline that should never have occurred?

Miscelleanous
• Who controls the food drops? How do they occur, if Dharma has been defunct for 20 years?

• What is the “magic box” that Ben referred to? (“Man from Tallahassee”) Can it really make ‘anything you imagine’ appear on the island?

• Did the Others know about Swan Hatch? If so, why didn’t they kill the Dharma scientists Radzynski & Inman?

• What is the criteria between the “Good” people and the “Bad” people on Jacob’s list? For that matter, were they really Jacob's lists?

• Can Jacob cure cancer? Did he really cure Juliet’s sister of cancer? If so, why didn’t he cure Ben’s cancer?

• What is the altUniverse? Will this become the "new" reality for our characters?

• Who is Jacob? MIB? Why are they fighting? What are the rules of engagement? Why does MIB need the survivors in order to leave the island?

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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by Craig Childs:
Claire
Why did she join with with Christian Shepherd/MIB?

She said why. He was the only one who didn't abandon her. Of course, that isn't true. He drew her away from everyone and tricked her into thinking that everyone had abandoned her, but that's her reason anyway.
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Craig Childs
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:
Originally posted by Craig Childs:
Claire
Why did she join with with Christian Shepherd/MIB?

She said why. He was the only one who didn't abandon her. Of course, that isn't true. He drew her away from everyone and tricked her into thinking that everyone had abandoned her, but that's her reason anyway.
I took her abandonment comment to mean that everyone left the island without her. She was stuck there for 3 years with no one but MIB.

It's been a while since S4, but I seem to remember Claire just walked off one night while everyone was sleeping. No explanation why. No evidence she was tricked. It was totally out of character for her. IMO, the writers owe a flashback or some reasonable explanation of how/why this happened.

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Strider
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Craig, she saw the visage of the man who was very recently introduce to her as her father. She followed him. The MIB, in this visage, then began to exert its influence on her so that when Locke saw her in the cabin with him some time later, she was already "on his side". I really doubt we need, or will ever get, any more explanation than this.

In fact, I imagine the vast majority of your questions will not be addressed (or have been addressed already). I think your last two questions will be the only ones specifically addressed.

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LargeTuna
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Am I the only one that dosn't want all of the quetions answered? I like the mystery. I be happy with a few explanations, but most things I'd rather them not address. Just please tell me a story. That's what I want, a good story enhanced with mystery and science fiction. Really, what is the island, why people changed, what causes everything isn't my main concerns. I'm just along for the ride. I want in the Finale, a moment that will make me smile, and a moment that will bring me to tears. We'll see if they manage to do that.

If Zombie Nikki and Paulo were the ones in charge I would actually like to know that. (and enjoy that ending) [Wink]

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The Rabbit
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quote:
It's been a while since S4, but I seem to remember Claire just walked off one night while everyone was sleeping. No explanation why. No evidence she was tricked. It was totally out of character for her. IMO, the writers owe a flashback or some reasonable explanation of how/why this happened.
If I remember correctly, she'd just survived a bomb blast that knocked her unconscious. She was very likely suffereing from a concussion and disoriented which made it easy for the MIB to draw her away.

The part the needs to be explained (in my opinion) is why the MIB wanted to separate her from Aaron and the other losties. Is that somehow connected with the warning Claire got not to let Aaron be raised by another?

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Strider
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You know what I'm finding really interesting? The similarities between Desmond and Jacob. Desmond has a list of names and he travels around to people on his list and interacts with them in such a way as to change the course of their lives. He even has similar air about him as Jacob. Sort of cocky and arrogant, sort of good natured, seemingly knowledgeable and concerned for others.
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Tresopax
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Strider,

I was wondering that too. I also wondered... what if Desmond is the candidate to replace Jacob? He's not one of the six magic numbers on the cave wall, but it wouldn't be the first time we've been tricked, and he'd make a lot of sense in that role.

(Otherwise, I'm guessing it'll be Jack.)

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The Rabbit
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Maybe its too obvious to mention, but I think its' interesting how l the strong loving bonds between people keep popping up as important links between the two realities. Desmond and Penny, Charlie and Claire, John and Helen, Jin and Sun, Sayid and Nadia, Daniel and Charlotte, Hurley and Libby and likely more to come. But it isn't just romantic love, we have parent/child relationships showing up all over the place as well. I'm pretty sure that these strong bonds between people are going to be the key to resolving the story. I'm just not sure how.

[ April 22, 2010, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: The Rabbit ]

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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by The Rabbit:
Maybe its too obvious to mention, but I think its' interesting how l the strong loving bonds between people keep popping up as important links between the two realities. Desmond and Penny, Charlie and Claire, John and Helen, Jin and Sun, Sayid and Nadia, Daniel and Charlotte, Hurley and Libby and likely more to come. But it isn't just romantic love, we have parent/child relationships showing up all over the place as well. I'm pretty sure that these strong bonds between people are going to be the key to resolving the story. I'm just not sure how.

I don't think this counts as a spoiler, but the show creators confirmed to Kristen Dos Santos on E Online that the show is ultimately about love.
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Sterling
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I'm curious what effect, if any, parallel-timeline Locke's "remembering" might have on BSM Locke.
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Strider
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:
Originally posted by The Rabbit:
Maybe its too obvious to mention, but I think its' interesting how l the strong loving bonds between people keep popping up as important links between the two realities. Desmond and Penny, Charlie and Claire, John and Helen, Jin and Sun, Sayid and Nadia, Daniel and Charlotte, Hurley and Libby and likely more to come. But it isn't just romantic love, we have parent/child relationships showing up all over the place as well. I'm pretty sure that these strong bonds between people are going to be the key to resolving the story. I'm just not sure how.

I don't think this counts as a spoiler, but the show creators confirmed to Kristen Dos Santos on E Online that the show is ultimately about love.
I think that works in nicely with what I said a few weeks back about Jacob's plan. I think that, in large part prompted by his interaction with Richard, Jacob began realizing he needed a much more involved plan to win out against Esau in the end. And I think all the criss crossing paths and connections between these characters that we've always wanted an explanation for has been to specifically create a web of friendship, love, and empathy between these individuals to better battle the corrupting power of Esau. It is this web that is helping them see through the falseness/wrongness of altTime.

It also fits in nicely with Rose and Bernard finding peace on the Island and escaping the cycle of fighting and corruption.

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Geraine
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quote:
Originally posted by Tammy:
quote:
Originally posted by Geraine:


I also still think that Locke was lying to Jack about his father. Locke hesitated when he told Jack it was him. That and we also have Jack's father appearing to him back in LA once Jack was off the island. If Locke was trapped he would not have been able to do that.

Oooh, good thought! I'd forgotten about that.
Actually, I thought about this a little more and went back and watched the episode where Jack sees his father at the hospital.

Interestingly enough, there is a smoke alarm that goes off that gets Jack's attention. When he goes out to take a look, there is his father. I don't know if the smoke detector sound has any significance, but did make me think.

Earlier in the season Claire said that she had spoke to her father AND her friend. She referred to Locke as her friend. This leads me to believe that they are two different personages.

And I had the same thought with the sonic fence...Its funny how we all thought the same thing, but Lost makes you think that way. Illana's death last week? Yeah, never saw that one coming.

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Darth_Mauve
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Love is stronger than a sonic fence. Entire point of all 6 seasons.
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docmagik
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So we have at least one time when the Christian Shepard Jack saw was probably the real Christian Shepard, as a ghost like the ones Hurley sees.

And apparently these ghosts can come and go from the island, because Hugo has seen Ana Lucia, Charlie and Eko all off the island.

And now we know these ghosts are the whispers, so they're all over the island.

So here's my thought: I think the dead who roam the island will play a big part in how this gets resolved. I imagine Jacob, Locke, Eko, Charlie, Christian, Michael, and maybe the crew of the Black Rock, and maybe some other people the smoke monster has done in or used over the years all coming to help the losties beat the smoke monster.

I imagine them all helping drag smokie down into whatever "hell" the island is keeping corked.

Maybe THAT's their unfinished business.

I think smokie vs. the whispers would be awesome.

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Raymond Arnold
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quote:
I don't think this counts as a spoiler, but the show creators confirmed to Kristen Dos Santos on E Online that the show is ultimately about love.
Honestly, while that's good and all, there's gotta be more to it than that for me to find it ultimately satisfying. There have been approximately 1,264,343 stories about love told in the history of ever. It works nicely as a theme, but you gotta have something else to tie it in with.
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Lisa
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Who are Adam and Eve? Right now, I'm going for Kate and Sawyer, but who knows?
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docmagik
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quote:
Why does MIB need the survivors in order to leave the island?
Here's my guess:

He doesn't. He only needs "the" candidate to leave. But he can only be sure he has the right one if he takes them all.

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Lisa
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I agree.
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Craig Childs
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quote:
Originally posted by Strider:
In fact, I imagine the vast majority of your questions will not be addressed (or have been addressed already). I think your last two questions will be the only ones specifically addressed.

That's what I'm afraid of. (Warning: Lost diatribe coming!)

Look: I don't need every question answered. (For instance, I've always wondered how Kelvin Inman got recruited, since he would have left Iraq in 1992, after the Purge. Did the Others recruit him to push the button? But I realize this isn't really germane to the overall story).

But certain questions are key plot points. How did Claire get lured away from Aaron? Why did she follow Christian? How did MIB turn her crazy? I mean, these are gaping holes in the story for the writers to just say... fill in the blanks yourself.

Same thing with Walt. His special powers and his kidnapping were one of the major storylines of Season 1. Nothing ever came of them. Nothing was explained, nothing resolved. There wasn't even any passing mention of the potential ramifications of sending a boy with those kinds of gifts back to the "real world" off the island.

And don't even get me started about Charlie's sacrifice, which apparently meant nothing, since it did not lead to the future seen by Desmond. Charlie's death led to the coming of the freighter, some of the losties went back home for a while, then they came back. So what?

Even the answers we are getting are not very compelling. So MIB=Christian Shepherd. OK, but that leads to continuity errors. Last season MIB (as Locke) was on Hydra Island with Ben, while MIB (as Christian) was on main island with Jin and Frank. Oops!

I realize there are still 5 hours of storytelling left, and I still enjoy the individual episodes, but at this point it is hard to deny that the story (the mythology, the mysteries, etc.) is not coming together in a logical, coherent manner. It's not tight. It feels make-it-up-as-you-go-along.

Even the actors have made comments as such. Michael Emerson stated in an interview last month he was shocked that Widmore returned to the island and there was no Ben/Widmore face-off. After all, last time we saw them together, Ben and Sayid did wipe out Widmore's entire organization.

I think the real problem is that for many viewers the mystery of the Island, Dharma, Others, Jacob, MIB, etc. has taken over the story. It's not just an action-adventure story set in a strange, mysterious place. The writers oversold the mythology. The show has become a Mystery where the characters are secondary to finding Answers. & the Answers so far aren't all that good.

That's my $0.02, anyway.

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Tresopax
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I have to say I think there's really only one question they need to answer: What is the point of it all - the deaths, the suffering, the intricate plots, etc.?

If they answer that question well, all other questions are secondary. If they fail to answer that question well then the show will not have been a success, regardless of how many other things they explain.

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The Rabbit
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quote:
For instance, I've always wondered how Kelvin Inman got recruited, since he would have left Iraq in 1992, after the Purge. Did the Others recruit him to push the button? But I realize this isn't really germane to the overall story.
You have your dates mixed up. The gulf war ended in 1991 and the purge was in 1992 so there is not a problem.

quote:
I have to say I think there's really only one question they need to answer: What is the point of it all - the deaths, the suffering, the intricate plots, etc.?
I said this earlier but I think its worth repeating. I think F-Locke summed up the central quesion they have to answer very well. "Why are you on this Island?". If they can answer that question satisfyingly for all the key players from Jacob and Esau to Dharma to the Candidates, it will be enough.
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docmagik
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I've posted this before, but the only think I want, and think is neccesary is to, upon rewatching, understand all the character motivations.

I think what a story IS is "Who does what and why." There have been a lot of moments on Lost when we knew who was doing what, but didn't know why. Especially with Ben and the Others.

And now I'd include Smokey and Jacob in that.

Upon rewatching, I want there to be as few moments as possible where we go, "Wait, if Richard is basically a good guy who murdered a guy once a long time ago, why is so keen on getting Locke to kill his dad? In fact, if the others are so convinced they're the good guys, why would they all be hip to killing as a rite of passage for Locke in the first place?"

As few questions as that as possible once it's all said and done.

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docmagik
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I will add, after a day of no comments, that I'm not a Nazi about it. For example, if the monster's saying it can only leave if all the candidates leave, I'll accept that. I won't get upset and say, "Well it looked to me from the finale last season that Jacob left the island all the TIME, and him leaving never allowed smokie to leave. Why will the new Jacob leaving allow the island to leave?"

I'm pretty laid back about just accepting stuff at face value once the reason's given. I have a VERY liberal willing suspension of disbelief.

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Raymond Arnold
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I think having a bunch of CANDIDATES leave (who are not actual guardians yet) without a Jacob to manipulate them back, makes for a reasonable leave-time. Especially since without a guardian to stop him from doing whatever he does, he can probably also kill Eloise and whoever else would possibly be able to get back to the island.

Also, lump me in with the people who isn't terribly worried about why Claire left, except insofar as "if her father isn't the same person as LockMonster, then we need some resolution on that plot point." I'm fine with her just having gotten manipulated somehow. Knowing exactly what he said to push her buttons doesn't concern me much at this point.

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LargeTuna
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I was under the impression for a while, and still am, that AntiLocke doesn't want the candidates to leave the island at all. He wants all of them to die together, but in a way that's not "against the rules". I forget which episode, where there was a good bit of dialogue between him and Jacob where he pretty much just said he would kill al of the replacements so nobody would stop hm from leavng. (I do understand he could have thought of a different plan by npw)

I was a bit puzzled on why he ssaved Jack at the end of the last episode. But from what he said to him, it looks like to me that FakeLocke is going to try to use and manipulate him to get everyone killed.

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Leonide
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I think the reason Jacob leaving before didn't effect Smokey on the Island was because Jacob wasn't dead yet. Or maybe Smokey is the only one who's ever traveled off-Island and meddled in lives. Maybe the only reason he's "trapped" now is because he's stuck in Locke. Maybe there never were two opposing forces, just two sides of the same coin, or one cuh-razy side.

Maybe there *is* no Jacob. Only Zuul.

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The Reader
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ABC is airing a repeat of Ab Aeterno this week. I don't know if I can handle it. With my schedule, lost is one a few things that keeps me sane throughout the week.
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