quote:The Others live on the same island as the Losties, but they do their research on this other island.
When did they say that?
quote:Well, they blatantly said "The sub is back, and there's a situation" right before they brought in Cole...and that might explain how they got to the sailboat and how they go in between islands.
Ah, I missed the part where they said "the sub is back." I figured if they went between islands it's because of the boat they attacked the raft with in the first episode, but the sub (why they have a sub I can't really parse out), explains their willingness to give the boat to Michael, that combined with the fact that now they can just go get it from him when it runs out of gas.
quote:I don't think she conned Sawyer before, just turned him in. I'm referring to his supposed daughter. If she knows he's in on the scam with the warden, she might be lying to get him to give money to Clementine, which he does. It's a pretty farfetched idea, though.
I don't think she conned Sawyer before either, I was referring to his supposed daughter as well. How in the hell would she know he had a scam to get money to the warden? I don't think it's possible she could know about the money, but I think it's possible that she thinks he has money elsewhere, and is trying to con him out of it. But the only other thing is that there really IS a baby, but if there is, and he doesn't care enough to go to her, just to leave her money, why bother dropping that plot point in the show? Just to show he cares? We know he cares somewhere deep down, so why that?
quote:He's probably the owner of the glass eye we saw in the Tailies' episode, too.
Oh yeah, I totally forgot about that. Good memory!
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They didn't. It just seems logical that the place we see the Others living in at the beginning of the first episode this season is a different place from the one they are torturing Jack, Kate and Sawyer in. From what I remember of the village they lived in, it was in a clearing surrounded by trees, possibly by the edge of a mountain or hill.
They have Jack underwater and obviously close to where Sawyer and Kate are. So I don't know that anywhere close to where that village is they could be doing all this.
But mainly just because obviously they DID get to the plane crash quickly so they couldn't have been on this other Island then.
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Just for an idea where The Pearl is in comparison to the hatch the Losties are at. Over by C4, it has it as "The Pearl," which I believe is what the chick said it was called. Notice also that on The Other's shirts, it has an octopus looking symbol.
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I'm not entirely sure how logical THAT is. All the facilities thus far built on Isla Lostie island are made by Dharma, as are the facilities on Isla Others, I don't think it's automatic to assume that they are on different islands. He even told Sawyer he was conning him, AGAIN when he brought him there. I don't buy that they all live on Isla Lostie, but work on Isla Others.
Especially since so many of them seem to be on work island, away from home island all the time. Why was french woman's daughter ever moved to Isla Others from Isla Lostie? Why was her boyfriend in a cage there? Why is there a labor camp there? The dual living situation seems to have too many plot holes for it to work. Sawyer's walk with what's his name didn't take that long, and the beach was right below them. I don't see why their facilities can't be right next to the village on Isla Lostie.
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The think is, they lived on their commune before the Losties got there. Now that they have new subjects, the testing is a bit more frequent.
If they are, indeed, living on the test island now (as opposed to commuting), I think there might still be more Others still living on the other island with the Losties.
Anyone else think that there might be or might have once have been a tunnel between the islands? Maybe that hatch that Jack opened was part of a remnant of the tunnel system. I mean, if you're underwater, why have a door that leads to err...certain death?
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My dream house has at least two of those for unsuspecting guest who decide to explore my home. It also has a batcave and a trapdoor with spikes underneath.
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I understand the allure of having a "certain death" door, but I would think that it would be more fun to have it just kill the one person who opened it, not everyone in the house. Posts: 5264 | Registered: Jul 2002
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I'd say it isn't a bad idea, but if there WAS a tunnel, it'd totally break suspension of disbelief. That's not exactly a short swim between islands, and it'd take a multi year, multi billion dollar project to build anything approaching a tunnel between islands. I know Dharma has a lot of resources, but I think that stretches feasibility or belief.
Why would there be NEED for a "test island" before the Losties got there? Imagine the whole island was built without any knowledge that anyone was going to crash on the island. If there was a test island beforehand, that supposes that they were testing people on the Lostie island, so why would have have set up their commune there beforehand?
I could have sworn I saw that the houses on the commune were attached to or near to the cages and such that Losties were in, but I could be wrong about that. I guess we'll just have to see more information before we know what is going on.
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quote:I'd say it isn't a bad idea, but if there WAS a tunnel, it'd totally break suspension of disbelief. That's not exactly a short swim between islands, and it'd take a multi year, multi billion dollar project to build anything approaching a tunnel between islands. I know Dharma has a lot of resources, but I think that stretches feasibility or belief.
What if the island wasn't always underwater? What if it's actually a tunnel through rock under a shallow bay? And why, on an island with a smoke monster and polar bears, would the amount of money available for the project be the one thing that unsuspends your disbelief?
quote:Why would there be NEED for a "test island" before the Losties got there? Imagine the whole island was built without any knowledge that anyone was going to crash on the island. If there was a test island beforehand, that supposes that they were testing people on the Lostie island, so why would have have set up their commune there beforehand?
The current test island seems to be set up not to test on humans, but animals. Possibly, the psychological experiment was being performed on the island, and the rest of the harder science experiments were performed on the small island.
I would think that the commune would have been originally part of a Utopian experiment, and that there were living quarters on both islands.
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quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: You can watch the beginning on ABC.com.
I don't believe that they are on one island and The Others are on another. When they saw the plane pass over and told the guys to go infiltrate them, there's no way they got to the boats, got across the water, got to a point where they could disembark the infiltrators, and got them into the camps that fast. I just don't believe it.
I agree that the village we saw at the beginning of the season premiere is on the same island where the Losties live. But don't you remember the map? There's an offshore/underwater research facility on it, and I think this little island is it.
My question is why Danny was beating on Sawyer asking if Kate loved him. I get that he was grieving over Connie, but the "Do you love him?" thing seemed inexplicable.
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Anyone else find it interesting that Sawyer set up an account in Santa Fe, and Kate's bankrobbing escapade was in New Mexico?
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I vaguely remember Kate using the name Clementine at the bank. Can anyone help in confirming that?
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quote:What if the island wasn't always underwater? What if it's actually a tunnel through rock under a shallow bay? And why, on an island with a smoke monster and polar bears, would the amount of money available for the project be the one thing that unsuspends your disbelief?
...
The current test island seems to be set up not to test on humans, but animals. Possibly, the psychological experiment was being performed on the island, and the rest of the harder science experiments were performed on the small island.
I would think that the commune would have been originally part of a Utopian experiment, and that there were living quarters on both islands.
quote:Well now you're just pulling stuff out of thin air.
How so? We've seen a ship moored in mid-land, a bunch of seemingly watertight hatches, and a part of a hatch that's flooded. Could the island be not as stationary as we think?
And we already know that zoology and a Utopian society were part of the Dharma Initiative from the orientation videos (also not "thin air").
And Nate, Kate went by the name "Maggie" in the bank-robbing episode ("Whetever The Case May Be").
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Sorry, not pulling it out of thin air, but at least making guesses, which is what I, and anyone else here are doing too. You could be right, but I don't see anything obvious that makes your guess any better than mine.
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It's hard to believe that everything's on one island, because when shown the view of the commune, it's clearly on the big island, where the Losties live.
And when Sawyer is walked from the cage to the lookout point (not drugged and transported, just walked), the island they're on is clearly very small, and the island they're looking at is either the Losties' island, or one that looks exactly like it. If there are two islands, the only way I can believe that the second one hasn't been spotted by the Losties is if it's tiny. An island the size of the one Sawyer saw--if it's not the Losties' island, I can't believe that no one would've glimpsed it in their extensive travels, both around the circumference of the island and up the mountains.
The only way I can see it being one island is if the island Sawyer saw was some sort of mirage, which, given Hanso's apparent budget restraints, (a giant mirage-producing machine being pretty expensive) is also beyond the suspension of disbelief to you. Posts: 5264 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Thanks for clarifying that, Lyrhawn. Although, I, like T_Smith, thought that the name Clemintine was attached somehow. *shrugs*
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I wonder if somehow Juliette and Ben are still playing Jack.
Where was Echo at the end of the episode? The mountain was right there. Are they on the other side of where The Others' village is?
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That dude who tagged along. Yeah. I nicknamed him Scooby after the "well, the toilet still works." Gee, thanks Scooby.
Echo died. Hmm. Well... Bernard is next.
My guess is that all Juliette is doing is making a powerplay for control of The Others. That she is just as manipulative, cunning and deceptive as Ben, but somehow, Ben maintains control.
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J.J. Abrams has finally put the last straw that broke the camel's back by killing Eko. I think I'm done with Lost. It was good while it lasted. I'm going to allocate more time from this show to other interesting shows that have come on.
It was a good ride.
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Oh, in other news, I predict that the whole side part with Jack is actually tricking him into doing the surgery because they know he can't kill anyone. IE: It's exactly as Ben said it would be. If that's his real name.
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Jack's a wus, but I do think Juliette is trying to make a play for power, and that she'll be an even worse leader than Ben. I can't quite figure Ben out yet, but I think he has some good in him, and a bit of honesty, if it serves his purpose. I think Juliette is stone cold, and all about playing games with people's heads.
I can't believe they keep killing off the awesome characters and adding dumb ones. What do the new couple have to add to the show? They seemed so one-dimensional.
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I wonder what the difference would be if Jack simply let him die of the tumor, rather than actively getting in there and personally cutting the cord himself.
I think Jack will agree, get in, and realize he can't do it. Though, like Sun's murder, I honestly wouldn't care at this point if he did in fact kill Ben.
Thing is though, it's probably a power plat by Juliet. Either she's just as bad, or worse, than Ben, or it's all part of a plan by someone else in the camp. Sometimes it's fun when nothing is predictable in a show. I think with this show, it's getting damned annoying.
Killing off Eko didn't bother me. Hell, I never liked him to begin with. They explained his character quickly, then killed him off. There were no questions left to be answered. We finally figured out why he was building the church and that was that, bam, he's dead. Though I wonder, he was previously the only character to face off with the Black Smoke like that and live to not talk about it. Why'd the smoke let him live before, only to kill him now?
As an aside, I totally called that the little kid was an altar boy (neither here nor there), and my brother was pissed, when while watching the first ten minutes he said "This show is pissing me off, I mean, look at all the stuff they throw out and never go back to, like the black smoke." Twenty minutes later: "Shut up. I hate you, and this stupid show." Which plastered a grin on my face for an hour or so. Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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I can't stand Juliette. Plus, it seems like every show these days has a Juliette look-alike. She reminds me of Meredith Grey, whom I don;t like, and she could also be a Desperate Housewife.
I liked Eko.
The couple is boring.(famous last words, I'm sure)
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Elizabeth: OK, so what is the black thing????
It's the 'security system.' Or at least that's what it's been called. No one knows what it really is yet. It's popped up here and there in the first two seasons, and yesterday was the first real good look we had of it. Before we had glimpses of it, and we saw inside it when Ecko faced off with it.
Also, to whoever said Ecko was the only one to face off with it - thats not true. Locke did at the beginning of the show, but he saw a beautiful light.
Locke's comment, coupled with the 'memories' seen inside of it when Ecko first faced off with it - seem to tell us that it's some sort of judgement device (made of what I have no idea). Ecko was (for the sake of argument) a 'bad man', and he was killed for the bad things he's done. What we've seen so far of Locke is that he's a good man that even tried to help his asshole father. Since he saw a beautiful light, maybe it 'judged' him as a good person and didn't kill him.
Who knows for sure? I agree that the story is getting slightly lost (no pun intended). I liked it better when the Others were literally Others, and not some retarded science team gone awry.
Posts: 317 | Registered: Feb 2005
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Yeah, this show is just getting... idk kinda predictably unpredictable and I dont like it. I was so upset when they introduced the dumb characters all I could think was 'oh great they thought the show was to confusing so they introduced idiots to explain everything to us'.
Mr. Eko was awesome = (
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quote: Ecko was (for the sake of argument) a 'bad man',
And he also refused to ask for forgiveness.
I had always assumed that things like Jemi were visions or hallucinations, but now I think they are manifestations of the black cloud.
I think the new couple is suppose to represent us tagging along for the ride. The woman pointed at the TV's and said it would make sense that if one TV looks at one station, then shouldn't the other TV's look at other stations. It almost seemed like she was the audence screaming at their TV's to Locke "Why didn't you see that?"
Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Locke's description of a beautiful light against Ecko's experiences with the black cloud remind me of the "dark stone, light stone" theme that they dealt with extensively in the first season.
I've been predicting Ecko's death since his introduction, largely on the basis of the Gilgamesh theory. Around the time of Ecko's introduction Gilgamesh came up a bunch of times in the character's crossword puzzles and books they were reading. In the Epic of Gilgamesh, Gilgamesh loses a friend, Ekindu, and this inspires him to seek out the secret of immortality. We know that Hanso Corp. was working on a life extension project that created at least one successful immortal, Joop. Also interesting to me, in the Epic the secret of immortality is kept underwater and guarded by a serpent; I don't have any trouble drawing a link there.
Ah well, it's all speculation. It's just interesting to me how much some of it matched up (I mean, come on... Ecko, Ekindu...) .
One of my friends is very upset that Ecko bought the farm, but has been whining throughout Season 2 that Locke lost his touch. After watching the latest episode, I told him to look on the bright side. He got Locke back -- he just had to give something to the island first.
On a side note, I was disappointed when the X-rays turned out to actually belong to Ben. I had a whole theory going that the Others had Alvar Hanso in their base, but needed Jack to get him out of a coma. As a last ditch effort to validate it, I've tenatively decided that this whole thing with Juliette is a vast manipulation by her and Ben to see if Jack will be honest, even when working on someone who is seemingly evil. When he successfully completes his first test with Ben, he'll get to slice and dice the big "H" himself.
But that's probably wishful thinking.
Also, what's up with everyone deciding that the black cloud can shape itself into people? Even people it's never seen, like Jemi and Jack's father? I don't have any proble thinking that Jack and Ecko were just hallucinating. It would have been very cool for Jemi to say, "You speak to me like I am your brother." and the EXPLODE into a massive black cloud and beat the bejeezus out of Ecko, but he didn't, he just walked away.
posted
The thing I took away from last night's episode is that anyone on the cast who wants to remain so had better not get arrested for drunk driving.
Oh and the same frustrations as everyone else.
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I didn't mind Eko passing. He was interesting but we'd learned all about him.
I get the impression that over the 8 year arc, they're all going to die. the last few episodes we'll have maybe Locke and Kate and Jack (Sawyer will have sacrificed himself for Kate earlier in the season a-la tale of two cities) and probably a coupla people who have come to the forground during the run of the show...
And by the end, they'll all be dead too... maybe kate or locke will walk free... maybe no one will.
quote:Also, what's up with everyone deciding that the black cloud can shape itself into people? Even people it's never seen, like Jemi and Jack's father?
We saw last season that the cloud can read minds, see memories, something. When Ecko confronted it before, scenes from his previous life flashed through it. It could easily know what people looked like that it hadn't seen before.
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Eight year? I heard they weren't going to past 5 years. 8 seasons is a bit of overkill for this type of show.
Posts: 317 | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:I can't believe they keep killing off the awesome characters and adding dumb ones.
Shannon and Ana Lucia were annoying, Boone was blah, and Libby was mildly interesting. Eko is the first one I'm sad to see go.
As for the rest, man...I need time to think about it (I just watched it...had to DVR it so I could watch the BSU game last night).
Posts: 5264 | Registered: Jul 2002
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I'm telling you, those two are us, the audience. Characters don't have to go to the bathroom in the show - we do. What do you think Kate and Sawyer are doing in their cages in plain view of each other? Nothing I tell you, because characters don't have to go.
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quote:The woman pointed at the TV's and said it would make sense that if one TV looks at one station, then shouldn't the other TV's look at other stations. It almost seemed like she was the audence screaming at their TV's to Locke "Why didn't you see that?"
I assumed Locke knew they all showed different stations, but since none of them were working when he first found the hatch, he assumed they didn't broadcast anymore. I mean, why have all those tvs, yet have to get on hands and knees like Sayid did just to change the channel?
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His response to her indicated that he hadn't thought of that, though. At least, that's how I interpreted it.
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So they're going to be on the island for three or four months?
Sure, why not? Honestly I'd rather they ended it soon, I don't want it to drag on and on and on, to where 7 years later we're STILL wondering what the black smoke is; OR they've shown us the black smoke's secrets, but then we have something ELSE that's mysterious.
It would get old after a while. Better that they plan for something short and then end it properly.
Also, I dont see a problem with the people being on the Island for only a few months. A lot of stuff can happen to a (realtively) small group of people in the span of a few months. Look what's happened so far and they've only been there what, 70 days?
Posts: 317 | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:His response to her indicated that he hadn't thought of that, though. At least, that's how I interpreted it.
Well yeah, I was just under the impression that Locke had thought of it, so when it came up, it seemed like a really contrived way of getting the channel changed. I'd rather Locke and Sayid try and figure out why the TVs weren't working than pretend like that stupid extra had the answer.
Posts: 5264 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Why do you blame the producers for Ecko's death? From USAToday "Akinnuoye-Agbaje asked to be written off the series. After losing both parents last year, he wanted to return to his London home and work on a film he'll direct."
It is like Kate in NCIS. She wanted off the show and she wanted the character dead. So the producers accomodated her. In Lost they did the same, since you can not really have Ecko leave the Island. So he dies.
posted
I think that the power source must be on the small island. The first construction, cages for bears and all the rest suggest it is a staging area, the power line to the main island comes from the small island. The power source is likely geo thermal, perhaps the small island was chosen for being more geologically active...
Clear thinking tells us that Jack will do his best to save the leader, but will charge a fee of freedom for Kate, Sawyer and himself. He cannot do less then his best and be a doctor. However I was wondering if Jack's chops might be getting rusty, how about it doctors? Fifty days of manual labor and no fine dextrous activity. Its gotta leave you rusty...
How did we miss the hottest girl on the island all this time? Even my wife was laughing at that...
I think Jack will tell the "Others" to go to heck with their political conivience and plots and return to the island folk.
What I want to see is that elderly couple building their permanant house, now that he knows that she cannot leave he will buckle down and start on it, all those black rocks from the SOS could be the foundation, I wonder how you make decent cement in that environment...
Ecko's death was pretty darn cool, it advanced the understanding of the black smoke for sure, it seems to be almost a cruel AI with a distaste for human kind. Certainly not 1980's tech... (though the TI 99 4a was a fun machine wasn't it?)
Question: is the little island invisble from the big one?
Who is the Eye patch dude?
Quite an episode, it suggest a retrenchment for a long haul but I miss Hurley and we need to see some more Drive Shaft...
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[quote]I wonder how you make decent cement in that environment...[.quote]
You don't. Making portland cement no only requires Limestone ( a mineral generally abcent on volcanic islands) but it must be heated to extreme temperatures which just can't be acheived without building a kiln first.
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quote:Clear thinking tells us that Jack will do his best to save the leader, but will charge a fee of freedom for Kate, Sawyer and himself.
Jack wouldn't be Jack if he agrees to do this surgery without being given an explanation for who the others are, what they are doing on the island, why they have refused to help the survivors of flight 815, how they have contact with the outside world?, how they get their "hamburgers"?
Considering that the others were able to get a full VITA on Jack, as well as books, CDs and hamburgers and who knows what else from the outside. Why can't they leave? If they can leave, why doesn't Ben just go to the Mayo Clinic for his surgery.
If Jack doesn't demand answers to those questions before doing surgery on Ben he isn't Jack and he isn't a responsible doctor. I mean really. Who would choose to do that kind of surgery on a remote island with limited medical equipment (like no paddles) and no qualified assistance if the surgery could be done back in civilization with a crack team and state of the art equipment?
ABC promised to tell us why the survivors are alive but the end of next weeks episode, so perhaps Jack will demand some answers and we will get some too.
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Unless the leader goes critical, then Jack has a choice, be a doctor as best he can or violate his oath.
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