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Author Topic: Lost Season 3 Discussion - Spoilers Galore!
Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott R:
Does anyone see a connection between the people who have died on this show?

The pilot
Boone
Shannon
Ana-Lucia
Hurley's girl (the psychologist?)
Eko
Ethan
The guy Ana-Lucia stabbed.

They're all dead?

No, I know. They're all women. Except for Eko and Ethan and Boone and the guy Ana Lucia stabbed. Am I right?

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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by Strider:
quote:

One question I had: would Charlie have remembered the encounter with Desmond in the redone past?

I don't think the past was actually redone. I looked at this weeks flashback more as a dream/hallucination brought about by the island that closely told the actual events that transpired in real life.
The moment the Oracle (ring lady) started talking to Desmond about the island, I realized that it wasn't really happening.

Then again... his behavior when he met Jack in the stadium was odd. It doesn't prove that he knew Jack was going to save Sarah (it was Sarah, right?), but it certainly seemed that way.

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Elizabeth
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
It's hard because the post in question misidentified Ben as Ethan.

Right.
I did not mean, "Leave me alone, Scott, read the posts," if that is how it sounded.

I am just really, really confused, and the Ben/Ethan thing did not help, than you!

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Scott R
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Than you, what?

Man, I'm all confundled now...

[Smile]

I was wondering if those people who have been killed are the ones who have been selfish/terrible people and who are also unrepentant.

Who has the island killed specifically?

Boone, maybe.
The pilot.
Eko.

Are there any character traits shared by these three men that would single them out as the island's enemies?

Also, the science teacher guy that got blown up. I forgot about his death.

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Counter Bean
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It was cool that Charlie was singing Oasis and the made Drive Shaft a kind of Oasis knock off. I think the island kills those with potential for great violence.
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sweetbaboo
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The Ben/Ethan mix up was corrected in the post immediately folowing my error, I'll switch it now so that it is correct [Smile] and hopefully less confusing.

[ February 15, 2007, 03:59 PM: Message edited by: sweetbaboo ]

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Lisa
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Artz, I think. But we don't know anything about the pilot. Yes, as Eric Weiss, he may have killed people, but he worked for the CIA, and that was his job, so it shouldn't count. And as Matt Parkman, he's too ineffectual to harm anyone.

Hell, Sawyer is still alive, right?

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Damien.m
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Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7swZaOWO3c

Like right now. And think about what it means in relation to this weeks episode. Could Desmond possibly, for even that short time, actually have been in the past? Could, every time a character has a flasback, atually be transported back in time? Maybe the dont change tings because they think they're just remembering. Or the Hatchplosion have made Desmond the only one with this ability. I could be and probably am 100% wrong but all the same its a nice thought.

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pfresh85
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That video was creepy yet neat. Interesting.
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The Reader
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Is that real, or is it possible that it has been mixed with the rest of the audio? Of course, it would be hard to hear when the video is run forward.

I don't quite believe that Desmond really has the power of prophesy. His prediction of the lightning could have been intuition, or knowledge of where lightning strikes.

Locke gives lots of speeches, especially when people need a pep talk and an act to rally around, like they did when Desmond predicted his speech. Desmond could have just known that the time was right.

And Charlie did say that Claire was swimming, so Desmond knew that there was a good chance she was drowning as well.

I need to see more before I believe that Desmond can see the future. I don't think he went back in time. He might have been hallucinating, but that doesn't explain the Oracle. The Others, or Dharma itself, may have ways to infiltrate the brain. It looks like they do that in the Clockwork Orange Room.

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Counter Bean
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In the Science fiction short story "The Death of Dr. Island" the island itself was incarnated as a sophisticated therapist with telepathic powers. Perhaps the Island is doing a download when people are flashing back, interacting with them in altered states... Come to think of it Dr. Island also explains the healing effect. I will see if I can find a link to the story, I read it in an Anthology years ago...
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Strider
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Reader, I think you have to posit a bit too many "ifs" to say that Desmond doesn't really have the ability to see the future. Seems relatively indisputable to me.
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The Reader
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Psychic ability is easy to fake, especially among paranoid and frightened people. Desmond may think he is for real, but that doesn't mean he is. He could merely be delusional.

I'll believe it-or not-after a few more episodes.

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Frisco
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I don't remember Charlie say that Claire was swimming. In fact, when they came upon Sun with Aaron, he asked her where Claire was, and she replied that she went for a walk.

And as far as the lightning goes, could anyone really be smart enough to predict not just the very second of a random day it would start raining, but the exact location of lightning?

Really, it takes more of a logical leap to believe that he doesn't see the future.

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Leonide
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some funny for all you addicts out there...

Writers of Lost


edit: changed to the Olde English site, though you can find it on YouTube as well...my crappy connection was having trouble with the site's version, which is why i originally linked to YouTube

[ February 20, 2007, 09:23 PM: Message edited by: Leonide ]

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pfresh85
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That was great, Leonide. Thanks for posting it. I laughed quite a bit.
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Celaeno
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Hehehe. Thanks for that.
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Elizabeth
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Ha!
The giant turtle idea would work, though, if they brought in a witch who was Native American. (creation myth)
And the turtle would be walking, which is why they can;t find the island, and and...

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Lisa
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But what's the turtle standing on?
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Counter Bean
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It's Turtles all the way down!
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Strider
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hey Kira...small request. Can you change the link to the video to one that goes to an official Olde English site. That youtube video was uploaded by someone completely unrelated to them, and I'd like to see them get the traffic they deserve. [Smile]
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Elizabeth
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
But what's the turtle standing on?

Why, ceremony, of course.
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Lord Of All Fools
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Link to Olde English

Oh, yeah-- just to keep up with my "uptight" reputation-- the video contains some strong language. Probably isn't worksafe.

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Leonide
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I'm sorry...but tonight's episode?

WHAT!?!

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pfresh85
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So what three secrets were really addressed? I mean I know they sort of touched on the people kidnapped, so that might be one. If you stretch it, I guess the meaning of Jack's tattoos is two. So what's the third then?

I was fine with the episode though. I felt like stuff actually happened in it. I'm a little worried about next week though (what with the random key, the van thing, and of course Kate insisting on going after Jack).

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Strider
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ummm...the questions they promised to answer weren't really answered. In fact, they pretty much didn't tell us anything more than what they showed in the previews.

Booooooooooo.

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Leonide
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I'm sorry, but the Jack we know would never have been attracted to that bizarro tattoo lady.

No. Way.


I think this just proves that the writers might have a storyline and plot arc planned, but they spent zippo time on actual character development

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kojabu
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That was really disappointing.
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Frisco
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quote:
I'm sorry, but the Jack we know would never have been attracted to that bizarro tattoo lady.

No. Way.

Then he'd be the only one on the planet. [Razz]

But physical attraction aside, she seemed to me to be well within Jack's "type". I really have no idea where you're coming from, Kira.

I really enjoyed the episode, but would rather have found out more from Cindy. And at the end, there's a huge ship off in the distance. Are they taking Jack and Juliette home?

I assumed they were going back to the big island, but I thought *everyone* was going.

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Leonide
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I didn't mean physically...that would be a stupid statement to make, wouldn't it? She just acted slutty and trashy, even if she really wasn't...and of course she wasn't, since the whole build up was that jack was supposed to think she was a prostitute. and she was withholding and annoyingly mysterious. nothing like the two women we've seen jack attracted to -- his wife, and Kate. (granted, kate turned out to be withholding and annoyingly mysterious...but she didn't ACT like it -- at least not from the get-go) and she didn't need his "help" which is pretty much a given for Jack to be really into someone. Jack is always trying to fix his girlfriends...i think that has at least been established as a definitive character trait. And this girl didn't seem to need any fixing, in fact, she seemed like she was totally in control and in charge of the relationship. So at least i know where i'm coming from [Smile]
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Strider
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I have to agree with Kira there. Jack's savior complex would seem to keep him from getting really into a woman like that. Then again, he's on some island and a sexy Asian lady is all over him...so I can see why he wouldn't say no.

Why was he on that island? When was he on that island?

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Frisco
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This clearly wasn't any sort of boyfriend/girlfriend thing. At one point, Jack mentions her coming to see him at all hours of the night for a month now, and that he still doesn't know anything about her.

Is it really all that out-of-character for Jack, who we already find is having a relaxing vacation on Thailand for some reason, to have a short-term sexual relationship with a hot Thai chick?

I think the problem is that Jack hasn't become some sort of "guy with a savior complex" caricature. I mean, we have one woman who Jack had to save--his wife. He was also attracted to Kate for some reason, presumably Ana Lucia for some reason...possibly many others we don't see in flashbacks. Why do we assume that just because he's been portrayed as a man who likes things to save, doing so is his *only* motivation? And assume that he's been that way all his life?

Is that what TV teaches us? To mentally reject complexity for the comfort of a cardboard cutout character?

In reality, people do surprising things. One day, a girl might be a sweet, teetotaling musical theater nerd--the next, a White Russian guzzling wild woman dating a man with a ferret fetish. [Razz]

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MightyCow
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I thought the episode was pretty good overall, but I did feel ripped off with the teaser that 3 big secrets would be revealed.

1) Jack's tattoo: Pretty lame explanation, I would say, but at least it's an answer.

2 & 3 I'm not even sure. We saw some kidnapped people, but it seemed kind of silly just to have a group wander in, then wander out. Didn't really tell us anything. I don't even remember seeing any of those people. Why do we care about them?

I can't think of another secret really. If they would have never mentioned the big secrets, I would have been much happier with the episode.

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Leonide
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In reality, television shows rarely have deeply realistic characters -- which is why Jack being attracted to this women, as opposed to the others, reads as poor writing rather than complexity of character.

And truthfully, no, I don't see Jack, the Jack that the writers have shown us, at least, continuing a month-long relationship with a woman like the "Hot Thai" (what was her name? I heard "Hature" the first time and "Atura" before her brother beat him up...) and then showing signs that he's starting to have feelings for her.

Regarding the kidnapped people, I think that was a tease and a particularly annoyingly manipulative one, at that. "Oh, we're here to watch" -- no one SAYS things like that. Any normal person would elaborate. Does she assume Jack knows what she's talking about? Doesn't she notice he's in a cage, and therefore obviously not in on what the Others are doing?

I must have hit my television a record number of times last night.

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sweetbaboo
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I couldn't understand what "Hot Thai" said she saw in Jack: leadership, a great man and something else.

I also didn't get what his tattoo means. That whole thing was really confusing to me. It may have to do with my hearing loss or that it's late at night for me. Can anyone clarify this for me?

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Leonide
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i think his tattoo means that he's a leader, but a coward? She said something about him being a leader but being afraid...

So did the Hot Thai tell her brother that Jack had forced her to tattoo him, and THAT was why they beat him up? or was it because of the rules of her people? Which were what, exactly? Don't tattoo Americans? Don't "define" the man you're sleeping with? Don't ever, ever, ever wear blue eyeshadow?

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prolixshore
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She said he was a great leader, and that this made him lonely, afraid, and angry.

I don't see it as being completely out of character. This is an earlier version of Jack, and his attraction to Ana Lucia seemed to indicate that he can like the strong, non-broken type of woman as well as the ones who need saving. He ran away to Thailand for some reason, and perhaps when we know what reason his attraction will make more sense.

As far as the kidnapped stewardess commenting on watching, perhaps she thought Jack knew about the judgement. She is obviously not in the loop either, since she doesn't know about Micheal murdering Ana Lucia.

--ApostleRadio

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Leonide
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Ana Lucia was a non-broken woman? You can be broken (or maybe bent?) and still be a hard-a$$...Jack knows her, what, a day, and she kills one of his Losties. He must have seen some torment there to feed his fix-it addiction [Smile] Plus, neither Kate nor his ex-wife were pushovers...the wilted, weak broken woman. They were women with BIG problems...one medical, one personal. And Jack WATCHED Ana Lucia go through a traumatic event, so he had even MORE reason to be attracted to her.
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prolixshore
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I meant that Jack was attracted to her immediately when they met at the airport bar. In that setting, she did not seem to be broken.

--ApostleRadio

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T_Smith
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"I also didn't get what his tattoo means. That whole thing was really confusing to me. It may have to do with my hearing loss or that it's late at night for me. Can anyone clarify this for me?"

It "says" He walks among us, but is not one of us. In correlation to the leader aspect, it could very well be an Ender type of situation, how Ender as the leader he was never was really like everyone else, even when he was surrounded by friends. His leadership and abilities made him distinguishable and put him outside the crowd.

Or it could be he's God/a God incarnate. Whatever works.

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Reshpeckobiggle
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quote:
Originally posted by Damien.m:
Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7swZaOWO3c

Like right now. And think about what it means in relation to this weeks episode. Could Desmond possibly, for even that short time, actually have been in the past? Could, every time a character has a flasback, atually be transported back in time? Maybe the dont change tings because they think they're just remembering. Or the Hatchplosion have made Desmond the only one with this ability. I could be and probably am 100% wrong but all the same its a nice thought.

How do you make a signature? I want to use that line.

Edit: I wanted to include this. Best Lost video ever! I posted it once before on a different thread.
someone will say what is LOST can never be saved

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Strider
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quote:
Perhaps the Island is doing a download when people are flashing back, interacting with them in altered states.
No one really commented on this, but I think this is actually a pretty valid theory. I've been independently thinking about it for a week now, and the more I think about it, the more I think it might be true. That the flashbacks each character has are not simply flashbacks, but Island induced flashbacks. Where the island is actually interacting with them in some way. This would even explain the presence of flashback elements on the island itself(Echo's brother, hurley's imaginary friend, Kate's horse, Jack's dad, etc..)

My question is, if this theory is true, is the island ONLY accessing their memories, or is it altering them as well(this could be one explanation for the seemingly unexplainable past connections between all the characters.

Maybe Desmond was just the first person to become actively aware of this island interaction in his flashback due to the failsafe event. We've already posited(or did we?) that the oracle lady was interacting with desmond ala the black smoke interacting with the other characters.

Also, given damien's link, I think that also might be a theory worth considering. It's not the first time we've had backwards talk on this show. And while I originally was only thinking in terms of the island interacting with them during flashbacks, given the "only fools are enslaved by time and space" lines, i'm open to the possibility that there is more going on during the flashbacks, especially given Desmond's new powers

[ February 23, 2007, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: Strider ]

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solo
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The thing that has really been bugging me about Lost lately is that the characters never push for answers to their questions (if they even ask any of the questions in the first place).

Jack finally asked some questions and challenged the Others on what they were doing - kidnapping, hanging Charlie, etc. but he didn't really press for a real answer. He was a prisoner so I'll cut him some slack for not wanting to rock the boat too much but he should have been pressing on those points while he was doing the surgery on Ben.

Sawyer asked what they work on on the other island and didn't press for details when the answer was "projects".

I could find this believable in the context of a couple hour or even day time period you might get from a horror movie but over the course of weeks or months it gets hard to swallow.

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Leonide
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quote:
I meant that Jack was attracted to her immediately when they met at the airport bar. In that setting, she did not seem to be broken.

We're still talking about two separate levels of "attraction" here, which is where the breakdown in communication is happening. I'm talking "compatibility" attraction, you're talking "physical" attraction. Jack has been attracted to: Kate, his ex-wife, Ana lucia, Hot Thai, and presumably Juliette. That's physical. In terms of an attraction that's grown, or in terms of who he would be physically attracted to vs. who he would want to have a relationship with (well, they woudn't necessarily be opposites, but one's a subset of the larger group) only his ex-wife and Kate *really* fit that bill...although Ana lucia had potential. And we're not even talking *healthy* relationships here, we're just talking who Jack, the character, as the show has presented him to us, would be *really* interested in. I just don't see jack putting in the time or effort with Hot Thai, *especially* considering she was bossy and withholding, which are character traits that seem to clash with Jack's personality. Since he's bossy and withholding himself [Big Grin]


And i've officially thought about this way too much.

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prolixshore
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And the woman he kissed right before his wife told him she was leaving him. Jack gets around. [Smile]

--ApostleRadio

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The Rabbit
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quote:
Perhaps the Island is doing a download when people are flashing back, interacting with them in altered states.
With the exception of Desmond, I have yet to see any evidence that anyone on the island has experienced a "flashback". The fact that we, the audience, see "flashbacks", i.e. episodes from the characters past, does not necessarily imply that those characters are experiencing flashbacks of the same events. There is nothing in the way the episodes are organized which would suggest the characters themselves are experiencing flashbacks. In fact, I think there is evidence to the contrary. For example, In one of the flashbacks involving Hurley, we see Libby in the psych hospital. If Hurley had indeed experienced that flashback, he would have remembered where he had met Libby before but he did not.
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Leonide
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I can't list any examples, but there have been numerous episodes where it seemed suggested (to me) that the characters were remembering the particular flashbacks at the same time as we the audience were watching them...
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Reshpeckobiggle
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The hatch blew up. There is no more button. Did the failsafe defuse whatever it was that kept needing to be reset every 108 minutes?


WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON!?!?

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The Rabbit
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quote:
Did the failsafe defuse whatever it was that kept needing to be reset every 108 minutes?
That is what was implied. To me the big question is why wasn't the failsafe used years ago? If the failsafe really was capable of difusing the problem, why wasn't it done immediately? There is an implication that there would be some sort of severe negative consequence to using the failsafe rather than hitting the button every 108 minutes. Perhaps something priceless was lost or the consequence for Desmond (or who ever else might have turned the key) was thought to be much greater than anything we are aware of.
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Strider
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quote:
The fact that we, the audience, see "flashbacks", i.e. episodes from the characters past, does not necessarily imply that those characters are experiencing flashbacks of the same events. There is nothing in the way the episodes are organized which would suggest the characters themselves are experiencing flashbacks.
I never thought so either, but Desmond's flashback has made me change my mind. Like I said, it would go a long way to explaining how and why some of the Losties see halucinations on the island that are DIRECTLY related to the flashbacks that are shown for them.

Desmond may just be the first real indicator that this has been going on. And it would explain why his flashback episode was fundementally different from the rest of the flashback episodes, i.e.- it wasn't really. All the flashbacks have been the island interacting with the Losties in some way.

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