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I thought it was a fantastic episode. Yes, it was continuity porn, but it tied things together.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Great episode! Not sure they couldn't have done this in the normal flow of time (hehe, what's that in Heroes?!), but I'll settle for flashbacks from the past to explain a lot of what's going on. Posts: 4519 | Registered: Sep 2003
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I liked my version of how Arthur discovered his time manipulation better.
It's possible that Arthur might not be able to take Hiro's power since he already has it. That moment of surprise when Arthur is wondering what went wrong might just buy Hiro enough time to jump away. Of course, it wouldn't be long till Arthur realizes WHY nothing happened (if this crack-pot theory comes to pass), and why his prey suddenly disappeared from within his grasp. How would two time travelers even fight?
One thing I would like to know is... Why wasn't "Tell Nathan the truth" an option? Why didn't Angela even SUGGEST it?!?! I mean hell, they didn't even have to tell him ALL of it. They could have just shown Linderman healing someone and that probably would have sold Nathan right there. If not, then a little embellishment would almost definitely seal the deal.
In other news, I've started a fund raiser for the "Pay for Hiro's Brain transplant" foundation. Donations can be made to...
Posts: 636 | Registered: Apr 2002
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Blayne Bradley
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To be fair the show has given plenty of evidence that when caught my surprise even immortal badasses have trouble with their powers.
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Arthur is a real scumbag to want to kill his son to protect his own interests. Why not lock him up on level 5? Tell him the score, or a version of it. See if he wants to play ball. After all, he has no clue about any of that stuff.
Or, since he has the "make people believe things" power, why not just mind-force Nathan into backing off on the investigation!
And when did Arthur get the "grab everyone's power" power anyway? Here apparently his power is just the same as the Parkman's.
Of course Angela is dumb enough to not even look at the body herself.
I was surprised that Trevor's power was finger-bullets or something. I had figured his power was to look all emo.
Posts: 454 | Registered: Mar 2005
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You don't lock up an Arthur Petrelli. You put him down like any dangerous animal. And if you have the opportunity to and you don't seize it, you bear responsibility for all the future blood he spills.
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quote:Originally posted by Seatarsprayan: And when did Arthur get the "grab everyone's power" power anyway? Here apparently his power is just the same as the Parkman's.
It could be a more developed version of Peter's in the same way that Matt Parkman's power turned out to be able to do more than just read minds.
Posts: 2437 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Seatarsprayan: Or, since he has the "make people believe things" power, why not just mind-force Nathan into backing off on the investigation!
The same reason that the Haitian couldn't make Nathan forget that he saw his father dying on the floor.
The writers have not figured out how to write a good plot that involves the characters using their powers remotely intelligently.
So they have their lame plot, and the characters use their powers only when it is required to make that plot crank along.
Was there ever a reason that Nathan was seeing visions of Linderman? That accomplished one tiny plot point, and then it was totally dropped, and no one thought about it again. Same with Nathan's religious convictions. The writers have just forgotten about them.
Posts: 575 | Registered: Feb 2007
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I think this has been mentioned, but there was a series in the graphic novels about Linderman and Arthur. This particular comic sheds some light on how Arthur is acting in the show:
quote:Was there ever a reason that Nathan was seeing visions of Linderman?
yes, Maury Parkman was inducing the hallucination in order to manipulate Nathan. That was covered pretty well.
This last episode had a very "Company Man" feel to it. And I like the fact that they're not afraid to kill a character. That's part of what made the first season so powerful. But at this point there's a core group that seems off limits for killing, and I think that adds to the feeling of predictability, even though the show really isn't that predictable.
Also, on the subject of the writers trying to deal with the characters' powers, this reminds me of trying to play dungeon master to a bunch of high level D&D characters. I've never met anyone who can really do it justice. So I give the writers some slack.
Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002
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This episode rewrote everything so it makes less sense than it did before.
Sylar and Elle fought a while back and yet made no indication that they knew each other.
They threw any sense the Noah/Sylar relationship had out the window. Their new history completely changes how we're supposed to see their present relationship and it just doesn't work. Noah practically created that monster, yet he has had no guilt about it.
The story with Meredith was a waste of time. Nothing really happened except that we found out her brother is Flint.
The Petrelli story just didn't really make much sense.
Posts: 1287 | Registered: Apr 2006
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The Petrelli stuff makes perfect sense. It tied it together nicely for me.
I didn't get anything out of the Meredith thing either, except that she's mad at the company for taking Clair from her (and the near miss of Claire and the burning train was just serendipitous irony)
You're right about Noah and Sylar. A couple of episodes ago Noah was talking about what a monster Sylar is, but that wouldn't have made sense knowing what we know now. One point however, (if they bother to deal with it) is that people who do evil are always able to rationalize it away. Perhaps Noah re-rationalized from "learning what we can from him is worth creating a monster" to "he was always a monster, so getting him to kill wasn't really my fault."
As for Sylar and Elle, I don't remember them being together more recently. That could just be a senior moment on my part, but some frame of reference would be helpful.
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"The ability to transfer power from one vessel to another is extremely rare."
This line is just ridiculous. On the show this is the MOST common power. We already have three people that can do it.
Posts: 1287 | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: "The ability to transfer power from one vessel to another is extremely rare."
This line is just ridiculous. On the show this is the MOST common power. We already have three people that can do it.
To be fair, at the time this was supposed to take place Peter hadn't manifested any ability and Noah didn't seem to know much about the upper levels of the organization (no knowledge of Linderman, for example).
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Eh, if you think about it, there are tons of plot holes. But at least on the surface this episode was decent.
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What makes him think it's so rare then? He has no reason to think it is any more rare than flying, future painting, fire starting, or healing.
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Blayne Bradley
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Well for starters we know logically that having worked in the Company for years he has undoubtably come across or know of possibly hundreds if not thousands of specials, the percentage of those who can transfer power that he knows of his very very very small.
This to me is simple logic and understandable in CONTEXT of the Show's Universe and not just what we the audience saw.
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quote:Originally posted by Seatarsprayan: And when did Arthur get the "grab everyone's power" power anyway? Here apparently his power is just the same as the Parkman's.
It could be a more developed version of Peter's in the same way that Matt Parkman's power turned out to be able to do more than just read minds.
Let us not forget Gabriel's power to take people's powers as well. It sure seems to run in the family, especially since Nathan is the reject who had to get injected to get powers. But yeah, Peter takes powers through empathy, Gabriel through logic - maybe Arthur's is some combination/evolution/result-after-years-of-practice combination of the two sides?
Posts: 3932 | Registered: Sep 1999
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This was... Better than some. But I have to confess it felt more like "retconning" than actually filling in holes in the past. They're continuing to try to make Elle into a likable person rather than the sadistic spoiled brat she's always shown herself to be in the past without any particular explanation (they've made a pretty good case as to why she'd be a sadistic spoiled brat, but not why she went from sympathetic to nasty.) And some of Angela's lines near the end were absolute howlers.
Posts: 3826 | Registered: May 2005
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I don't see how this casts doubt on the Noah/Sylar relationship. Yes, we now know that the company had a large hand in pushing him to become a serial killer, but it seemed clear to me that Noah had already made up his mind about Sylar.
When he had Elle push him into killing again, it was obvious that he considered it a certainty that Sylar would kill again. The string of murders that happened after that would be nothing more than confirmation of his preexisting beliefs.
Or am I missing the point and there's something else that makes their later interactions unbelievable.
Posts: 2437 | Registered: Apr 2005
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He HATED Sylar for targeting his Clair Bear, yet he never once felt any guilt for creating him. Never considered that his is at least partly responsible. The way Noah acts around him now is ridiculous when you see their past.
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Blayne Bradley
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Hes deflecting, common psycological response out of guilt, hes angry at himself hates himself and is blaming sylar for it.
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Well, Noah also turned against his own company (to which we see him being unquestioningly loyal in this episode) as soon as *they* target Claire, so at least it's not entirely inconsistent with his messed up logic system.
Posts: 1099 | Registered: Apr 2005
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The problem is not that the characters are stupid. The problem is that they're characterized as smart, but act stupidly. Claire is simply characterized as a cheerleader, not some super genius.
You have, however, a professor, a congressional candidate, a genre-savvy comic book reader, et cetera, all behaving very stupidly. So much stupidity in the space of a single hour overwhelms.
It's not only that characters behave stupidly. Their behavior is erratic. Take Hiro for example: his control of his power fluctuates from episode to episode. When Knox tells him that he has to kill Ando in order to join Pinehearst, Hiro immediately, without hesitation, comes up with a plan to fool the speedster and the person who can feel his fear.
When Hiro goes to catch Usutu, however, he falls for the same trick twice, despite the cool level-headedness he displayed earlier.
So, basically, what it comes down to is that the behavior of the characters does not follow any logical or coherent pattern or history. It only serves the needs of the story. And, sometimes, that story is bad.
Really, this shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. This is why we had to endure Hiro losing his powers in the first season, and the "romance" in Edo in the second.
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Maybe the Hatian's mucking about in HRG's mind in season one effaced some of the Sylar memories...?
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What gets me is how Angelica who used to be so hard and impressive turned out to be a pushover.
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It's the other way around. Angelica, who used to be a pushover, is now so hard and impressive.
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Elle and Sylar are, I think, the two best characters, or at least the best acted characters, in the entire show, and anything between them is good television, though I think the writing was a stretch, even for this show. She goes from wanting to mow him down to being his electroshock tutor? In like an hour? His breakthrough I can totally see. He's been headed for it for awhile now, even though I think it makes the whole "hunger" thing with Peter totally stupid and makes even less sense. But her transformation was just too sudden. Whatever, I guess you have to condense it.
It was cool how they showed the teams at the end, even if it's pretty weird that Niki III (whatever her name is) all of a sudden joined the other side, and especially since I don't think Elle is bad, and Sylar could really be anywhere in between as far as which side he's on. And Daphne, whose side is she on? Some of those characters I believe are firmly rooted, but half of them could go either way, so it seemed strange to place them all on either side as if the membership rolls were fixed.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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I'm not sure what to make of Hiro's new storyline. I am, however, extremely pleased they found a 9th Wonders in that comic book shop.
Also, Claire being the catalyst seems to easy and obvious (and thus more likely for the show...). I'd rather it be Ando, because he needs more love.
Posts: 3932 | Registered: Sep 1999
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I would think Ando would make far less sense. Kyto would have had access to Claire when she was at Primatech before she was taken by Noah.
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I somehow knew that when hiro lost his mind we'd be hearing that lovely phrase - Yaa'ta! - sometime soon...
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quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I would think Ando would make far less sense. Kyto would have had access to Claire when she was at Primatech before she was taken by Noah.
Well, yes. Kaito would certainly have had access to Claire. It doesn't make it any more fun, though.
It does kind of make one wonder if everyone is going to lose their powers at the eclipse, or just the people who were "given" powers. Then that will make one wonder if the whole thing is cyclical and/or if the catalyst can't just be used all the time anyway. Also...
I think I should stop trying to make this make any sense and wait to see what confusions the writers will heap upon me.
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I'm pretty forgiving to this show, but that stopped me in my tracks.
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Blayne Bradley
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I think Mendez may have written it, it wasn't entirely clear how far ahead he wrote, afterall it his comic book publication? Its not likely but its the simplest solution. That or someone else wrote them.
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We've already seen the last issue (he handed it to that one guy before Sylar got him), so unless they're just keeping back issues on the shelves of every random comic book store it really needs an explanation.
Posts: 2437 | Registered: Apr 2005
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I can't remember - and am a bit too lazy to look it up - but were the 9th Wonder books Hiro and Ando had in the first season in Japanese (at least the covers)?
Posts: 3932 | Registered: Sep 1999
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Wait, you're asking for continuity between the first and third seasons... of THIS show?
Why did Arthur spare Hiro? Furthermore, why did he leave him his powers? This is, of course, assuming that Arthur is responsible for Hiro's regression.
I can't say that I like how they're whoring out everything that made everyone special. It was bad enough before, but now its over the line. Sylar is now basically Peter v2. Arthur apparently already had Maury's power in addition to the absorption ability.
Arthur can now jump just like Hiro/Peter, and apparently knows about it. He is playing a WAY deeper game than he has to, and I don't understand why!!!
There are officially no interesting characters left.
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I think that after a famous comic book writer dies, they would keep back issues of all his comics. Also most comic writers stay issues ahead of their deadlines...
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quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Elle and Sylar are, I think, the two best characters, or at least the best acted characters, in the entire show, and anything between them is good television,
Amen. When we were watching last night, I realized that Gabriel has become my favorite character on the show.
And it's funny... OSC talked about Heroes in his review column at one point, after having seen the first season finale, and he was hoping fervently that they'd leave Sylar dead. And I agreed with him at the time. But what they've done with him is marvelous. He's still not exactly heroic. He's still guilty of many brutal murders. But good and bad actions don't cancel each other out. He might wind up being the most heroic character on the show. He certainly seems to be headed in that direction.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I would think Ando would make far less sense. Kyto would have had access to Claire when she was at Primatech before she was taken by Noah.
Well, yes. Kaito would certainly have had access to Claire. It doesn't make it any more fun, though.
It does kind of make one wonder if everyone is going to lose their powers at the eclipse, or just the people who were "given" powers. Then that will make one wonder if the whole thing is cyclical and/or if the catalyst can't just be used all the time anyway. Also...
I think I should stop trying to make this make any sense and wait to see what confusions the writers will heap upon me.
Well, I have a couple questions about how the eclipse relates to powers and such. First off, if this batch of people got their powers from the eclipse, how does that explain the people with powers that came before? Do they all get powers every time there is an eclipse? And if they lose them now, did they always lose them before, or is this new? And if new, why?
But I do have a theory for how this will resolve some of the more questionable plot problems. Given the current teams and with Hiro out of commission, Arthur really is the most powerful person that we know of on Earth. He can move at will and do more or less whatever he wants, and has to be neutralized: enter the eclipse. But even with him down, how do they act to stop him? I think this is where Peter, out of action for a couple powerless episodes, gets back into play. I think that when everyone else loses their powers, he gets his back, and there will be a midseason finale reckoning of sorts.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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What I want to know is how Ando squeezing Hiro's eye closed made his power work. That's ridiculous. His eye-squeezing is a sign of his concentration.
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But yeah, Peter takes powers through empathy, Gabriel through logic - maybe Arthur's is some combination/evolution/result-after-years-of-practice combination of the two sides?
