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What does it say that I had to go and look up Niki and Paulo? Possibly that they were really THAT annoying.
I don't know that it was totally out of character for Sayid to follow his orders.
I mean, what did he do when they got back to the mainland? Followed Ben's orders for part of the three years they were back. He didn't ask very many questions.
Posts: 691 | Registered: Nov 2008
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For the record, I liked Nikki and Paulo. I watched season 3 on DVD though, so I could watch the episodes more rapidly and didn't mind that they were new and unimportant. Generally, I don't enjoy Kate, Claire and Said episodes so much. Give me an Eko, Desmond or Jin/Sun episode any day.
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quote:Originally posted by Uprooted: Did anyone else think that Sayid going off and doing just what Dogen told him to was not very Sayid-like at all?
Well yes and no. Sayid has this almost bipolar personality. On the one hand, half the time he has this almost supernatural ability to see past deception and sense a lie. On the other hand, he's incredibly easy to manipulate once you know his weaknesses.
[ March 09, 2010, 08:21 AM: Message edited by: The Rabbit ]
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Rabbit, that's what made Sayid such an effective torturer.
IMO, his desperate search for redemption is what lead him to follow FLocke, because he gave up on redemption when he realized what he desired couldn't be obtained. But that's ultimately his flaw. His desires consumed him, and have lead to his destruction.
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I'd forgotten about Sayid following Ben for 3 years. I can't keep all these threads going in my head. But I'm not so sure his story is over and redemption is lost. I'm interested to see what ends up happening with alt-Jin and alt-Sayid.
I loved last night's episode. I really thought Ben was going to do the wrong thing in alt-world, and was glad when he didn't. Michael Emerson's a great actor. I actually felt sorry for poor sniveling, conniving, murderous Ben when he said, "No one else will have me." That "I'll have you" line got to me. Even though . . . really, who the heck is Ilana anyway?
The touchy-feely ending scene on the beach was very Season 1. Well, almost ending. Before the sub with Widmore on it.
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Who have we not seen in the sideways time line? Especially those who are candidates? Have we seen Sun? If not would that make her the one that takes over for Jacob?
I would love to gets Iliana's back story. We need a flashback.
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We saw Sun on the plane and in the airport, although the customs agent referred to her as Ms. Paik. So that could either be a red herring or a clue that Jin was the Kwon on Jacob's list.
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I was only able to watch the first half of last nights episode this morning before work, but so far it is probably my favorite episode this season.
The last scene I watched before I had to come to work was the confrontation between Ben and the principle. Even though he broke Alex' trust, I hope he does the right thing and backs off for Alex' sake. He can always blackmail the principle once Alex is in Yale.
Even though I have not finished the episode, I found myself feeling sorry for Ben. He really has had a difficult life, and has always done what he feels is right, even though it seems evil to everyone else. I think he realizes now that he shouldn't have killed Jacob.
One thing I wanted to point out in this episode is a change in Jack. He has made a transition from a man of science to a man of faith. When he was sitting there with Richard in the Blackrock with the dynamite fuse burning away, Jack looked absolutely convinced that it would not go off. The line at the end, "Want to try another stick?" made me giggle. I think Jack has accepted that he is there for a reason, even though that reason is not clear to him yet.
Jack and Locke have butt heads throughout the entire series. I have a hunch that Jack will be Jacob's replacement.
We haven't seen Sawyer in weeks. Locke is out gathering people, what is Sawyer doing? Sudoku puzzles? Did he find a good book to read?
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I thought it was great, except...there was a false choice that Principal Reynolds gave Ben. Ben had all the power, so all Ben had to do was say, no, if you don't resign, recommend me as your replacement AND write the recommendation for Alex then your wife finds out you were cheating and the school board does, too. The REAL Ben, the conniving one who was so smart and infiltrated the Losties and ran the Others would have realized that in a second. I understand why the writers wrote it the way they did - so Ben would have a selfless chance at redemption in his alt-life. But it rings hollow when you examine the logic.
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Jonny, one thing to remember is that Ben in altTime is not the experienced manipulator that he is on the Island. While you may be right that he didn't handle his extortion perfectly, I think it's reasonable that he didn't know how to.
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I do love how we did find out that alt-Ben was on the island at one point, and since Uncle Rico was still around the purge probably didn't happen, or they left before it did.
I wonder if Ben was shot while on the island in the alt-time line?
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I would like to find out WHY things in the alt time are turning out so different. And having Alex show up in Ben's class is really straining credibility.
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if the epilogue theory of altTime turns out to be right, it would explain why things are happening the way they are in altTime.
as for Alex, I think they're just pushing the idea that all these people were meant to cross paths no matter what.
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I get that, but frankly that's just dumb. Using "Destiny" as a plot device is only not-dumb when there's some actual reason for the people to end up together. They all ended up in the island together because the Island was constantly manipulating them from Day 1. If the Island is removed from the equation, there's no reason for them to naturally gravitate towards each other.
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again, it all depends on the nature of altTime. If altTime is not in fact just a timeline where there was no Island(though we know there was) then there could be a plausible explanation for this.
Hey, I'm not happy at all with the very existence of altTime! But many things that have happened this season have made me question altTime's role in this story. If as some have speculated, altTime is an epilogue, and events on the Island now are actually leading up to the events we're watching in altTime, then they could conceivably have an explanation for all the connections.
Posts: 8741 | Registered: Apr 2001
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Last night's episode was a perfect example of why I love Lost. Great character interactions, cool human stories, and awesome performances. I've long since given up trying to follow all the theories or to guess what's going to happen. Don't get me wrong, I love the fantastical elements and the crazy plot hi-jinks, but at this point I'm perfectly content to just watch things unfold from week to week.
Ben: Because he's the only one who'll have me. Ilana: I'll have you... Me: Nice!
Posts: 1855 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Geraine: I do love how we did find out that alt-Ben was on the island at one point, and since Uncle Rico was still around the purge probably didn't happen, or they left before it did.
Who is Uncle Rico?
quote:Originally posted by Geraine: I wonder if Ben was shot while on the island in the alt-time line?
posted
Jacob is ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol, with a few changes. For one thing, Ben clearly isn't going to replace him. But other than that, I see a number of similarities.
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quote:Originally posted by Geraine: I do love how we did find out that alt-Ben was on the island at one point, and since Uncle Rico was still around the purge probably didn't happen, or they left before it did.
Who is Uncle Rico?
quote:Originally posted by Geraine: I wonder if Ben was shot while on the island in the alt-time line?
By whom?
1) Yeah, Napolean Dynamite reference. Sorry
2) By Sayid. In the original timeline Sayid shot Ben. Ben was then taken to Richard who took him to (presumably) the temple and saved his life.
Posts: 1937 | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Geraine: I wonder if Ben was shot while on the island in the alt-time line?
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: By whom?
By Sayid. In the original timeline Sayid shot Ben. Ben was then taken to Richard who took him to (presumably) the temple and saved his life.
Except that Sayid's only motive for shooting young Ben was what adult Ben had done to him. Since adult Ben never did that, why would Sayid have shot him? More to the point, since Oceanic 815 never crashed, how would Sayid have been on the island in order to shoot Ben?
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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I've mentioned this a few times, but everyone here is making very specific assumptions about how time travel/altTime/causality work, and I don't know that ANY of us have any base to make these assumptions from.
I think it's equally likely that two time lines diverged at T0, the time of the nuke explosion, and that up until that point it was all one time line. This would necessarily include time traveling Losties in the 50s, 70s, and way back in the past when Sawyer held onto the rope from the well, bringing it with him and marking the spot for future generations to discover and dig at...
The other option is that somehow the nuke explosion created an alternate time line, but not one that diverged at the time of the nuke, one that is completely different due to the fact that the Losties never landed on the Island, never time traveled, never shot Ben, and never set off a nuke(begging the question of what exactly happened to the Island to put it under water, and how a time line that necessarily is different from hundreds or even thousands of years in the past can be created by an event in 1977).
And I don't think these are our only two options. There might be an infinite amount of altTimes, ala a quantum mechanical many worlds type of things, and we are just being shown two of them. Two of them that must connect in some significant way, or else why show us them? The Island in this scenario may serve as some sort of nexus of time, where many universes converge. Ala The Dark Tower and the myriad of Steven King references in this series.
Or maybe altTime is really an epilogue. altTime wasn't caused by the nuke at all, and the events we are watching now on the Island actually lead up to and cause/create what we are seeing now in altTime.
Both of the first two options have their own problems with logistics and causality, and pointing out to Geraine that Sayid wouldn't have shot Ben in altTime is just as much of an assumption as any others.
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I think the flashsideways time is what would have happened had Jacob not interfered in their lives.
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quote:Both of the first two options have their own problems with logistics and causality, and pointing out to Geraine that Sayid wouldn't have shot Ben in altTime is just as much of an assumption as any others.
ALL time travel stories (at least all time travel stories involving travel to the past) have problems with causality. One of the fundamental laws of physics is that cause must precede effect. If you allow travel backwards in time, that law does not apply which effectively destroys the concept of causality as we understand it. Its an inescapable fact. There is no way around it. To enjoy any time travel story, you have to let that go.
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I'm still wondering if perhaps, just like time travel was possible, travel from altTime to the original timeline is also possible.
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Oooooo. We could have an Alt-Locke vs Faux-Locke smackdown. Or a Crazy-Claire holding Alt-Claire hostage.
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Bad news....Looks like Julie Bowen is heading to Hawaii to shoot an episode of her new show and will probably be stopping by the Lost set on one of the days....I REALLY hope that doesn't mean she is Jack's baby mama.
Posts: 1937 | Registered: Nov 2006
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I thought this last episode was pretty boring. Usually Sawyer is pretty fun, but not this time. Alt-Sawyer is really tedious, and I haven't liked Kate in years. I'm really looking forward to next week's episode, though!
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Sawyer and Kate are the only reasons I watch any longer. Even Hurly isn't as fun this season.
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The fact that Hurly is not fun this season is, IMO, the real reason this show sucks rotten dinosaur eggs now.
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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The problem is they've already split the Losties up, so you only see half of them in any given episode. I think Hurley was pretty funny when he and Jack followed Richard Alpert into the old ship, and also when he told off Dogen.
The biggest hint they gave us this episode was about handshakes/touching. Kate still hasn't been touched by Fake Locke or Jacob.
But yeah, a pretty hum-drum episode. The next one ought to be fun.
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I thought it was boring as well. The only interesting part is how Sawyer is playing both sides. I do think it was pretty dumb how fast Sawyer has moved on from losing Juliet and now seems to be ok with Kate again. It has been what, 4 days? Plenty of time to get over the woman you loved and spent 3 years with.
I was really hoping the person Miles was trying to set Sawyer up with was Juliet. It puzzled me why they even brought Charlotte into the whole storyline. It seems the writers are just trying to do everything they can to give screen time to every single character that has ever been on the show. Still no sign of Faraday though >.<
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Definitely thought the same about Charlotte, Geraine. Although, if I wanted to stick up for the writers, Sawyer and Charlotte (as least, how Charlotte was on the Island with the Freighter People) have some striking similarities. But I don't know that I should give them that much credit. Posts: 3516 | Registered: Sep 2002
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I may be wrong, but I got the impression that Faraday was like Desmond, and could travel through time as well. It has been a while, but did anyone else think this as well?
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I don't think so. Otherwise, why would he have had Des give himself a message? His knowledge of time came (apparently) from his future self (as the worm eats its own tail...)
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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I'm glad the show is returning to its roots about real life choices. So far we have Jack in both time lines choosing good. Ben in both choosing good. Sayid in both chosing evil. Kate and Sawyer have not really resolved yet. I guess we can throw Locke into the not resolved bin as well.
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quote:Ben in both choosing good. Sayid in both chosing evil.
I think that's seriously over simplified. If someone has shot your brother, threatened his wife and children and kidnapped you, I wouldn't call it evil to kill them. I'm not sure I'd call it good either, but it definitely isn't evil.
Of all the characters in the show, Sayid raises the most interesting questions about good and evil. He is clearly more capable of ruthlessness than any other major character, but unlike Kate, Sawyer and even Jack his ruthless actions never seem to be selfishly motivated and unlike Keemy and Ben he does not enjoy it.
[ March 17, 2010, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: The Rabbit ]
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quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: I think that's seriously over simplified. If someone has shot your brother, threatened his wife and children and kidnapped you, I wouldn't call it [i]evil to kill them. I'm not sure I'd call it good either, but it definitely isn't evil.
Of all the characters in the show, Sayid raises the most interesting questions about good and evil. He is clearly more capable of ruthlessness than any other major character, but unlike Kate, Sawyer and even Jack his ruthless actions never seem to be selfishly motivated and unlike Keemy and Ben he does not enjoy it.
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