posted
No, I don't think so. No way she would load up so much emotional weight for, well, no reason at all.
We still know almost nothing about Horcruxes, particularly how they're made. But certain lines from book 2, not to mention the so far inexplicable bond between Voldemort and Harry, have me convinced that that's how this is working out. I pretty much decided it as soon as I read about Nagini. JKR flat out wrote, "Hw put a bit of himself in me?" in book 2. I'm not saying that I'm 100% certain, but I'm warily convinced.
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quote:Maybe Dumbledore is not dead, we dont see his body until Hagrid and Harry come rushing over after some time. A switch of bodies? Polyjuice potion?
So you can see, this theory was mentioned at least as far back as page 3. I don't think it holds much water, though. She's said that she keeps killing off all of the members of the Order that she likes most. He's dead. It's sad. Accept it.
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posted
when someone under polyjuice potion dies or is knocked unconscious, they revery back to their real body, the way the thing with Mad-Eye and Mr. Crouch or whatever his name was was. Plus, I think they would have checked to make sure it was him before going to all the trouble of that fancy funeral. It couldn't have been cheap.
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posted
I don't understand, except for denial, how anyone can suggest that Snape isn't evil or Dumbledore isn't dead. There is no reason to think otherwise, and she's not gonna cheapen his death by miraculously bringing him back in 7. But Harry's still not on his own, he's got the Order, he's got his friends and Fawkes is gonna be back....The only thing I can think of with Snape is that MAYBE he and DD set this up so that Snape could be in a position to betray Voldemort (yeah, like Suri). But I consider this highly highly unlikely.
But is RAB still alive? That's what I want to know - I thought Sirius was the last Black. Also, how the hell is Harry going to be powerful enough to kill Voldemort? Unless 7 takes place over several years, I don't see how he is going to become strong enough magically - he's gonna have to get lucky to win, or at least it won't be purely skill.
Posts: 326 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
All right. I've finished reading the book, and I've finished the thread. The book seemed to go by faster.... I've been taking notes to myself while reading EVERYONES comments. This is in hope to put the peices together.
I'm going to type the parchment with RAB on it out so everyone will have it as a reference:
quote: To the Dark Lord I know I will be dead long before you read this but I want you to know that it was I who discovered your secret. I have stolen the real Horcrux and intend to destroy it as soon as I can. I face death in the hope that when you meet your match, you will be mortal once more. R.A.B
-- They are talking to LV like they know them, therefor LV would be aware of who it is. They also point out that they will be dead long before LV finds out it's missing. They sound pretty confident of it, with emphisis on words like know and long . Since AD and HP were the ones to find the note, we can also assume this person RAB, was not in contact at all with AD. Or they would not sound so confident in their writing about who would find the note, and when they would find it. RAB also mentions facing death. By the wording of this, they know they will not live much longer, and will probably be killed by LV or a death eater. The note in whole sounds if it was meant to be rebelious, to prove that they were not at all scared of dying, or perhaps to note a sense of defiance or a mocking tone, ie, "you shouldn't have been so stupid to let me off, or think you need not worry about me." Whoever RAB is (though I support the black theories), they are intending to sound proud, but definatly not trying to brag, as the note was intended soley for LV.
I'm not sure if this helps in anyway, but if someone can make something of all of it, go for it.
Another thoguht I had is that Bill will probably have an important battle with Greyback in book 7.
About Snape still getting vital info into the hands of the Order, Harry is now the only one with a chance to even recieve that info, given hes the only one who knows enough of the truth to even possibly belive him, but I doubt any more info will be traded, as Snape will be forced to resume a roll that is entirly on the side with LV, and continue acting until, at the right moment in book 7 will Snape will act in the Orders favor, and therefor give up being a spy on LV any longer. But at that point, it will not likely matter anyways. It will all come down to Harry though, and whether he will be able to trust Snape enough to not attack him. Which I think is very unlikely, and he will end up killing Snape in his rage, to his (Harrys) disadvantage. At which point there will then be a fight to the death between him and LV, close to the end of the saga.
And at last, I have a barrage of questions: What happens when LV needs to use a Horcrux? (ie when LV is killed temporarily) Does he spawn out of the item into ghost form? Or what happens?
Like if Harry was a Horcrux, and LV used up his last soul peice, except for the one inside of Harry, would LV spawn out of his scar? And then would Harry loose everything that being a Horcrux of Voldemorts had given him? His Parseltounge? His visions of what LV was thinking? This could be very critical if Harry was indeed a Horcrux.
Whos the big blond wizard fighting on the side of LVs in the end?
Could someone give me a quick summery on the backgrounds of, R. Black, Wormtail, and Peter Peddigrew. I do not seem to remember them at all.
And why was Harrys death going to be so important as to make a Horcrux spell thing out of in the first place? I don't remember his original signifigance.
posted
Peter Pettigrew used to be the childhood friend of James, Remus Lupin and Sirius Black. He was awkward and mediocre. Black had been chosen as James' secret keeper since he was his best man at his wedding, but they switched to Peter thinking there was a traitor in the mix. This turned out to be a mistake as Peter was the traitor When Black confronted him he used a curse to blow up a whole street becore turning into a rat with a toe missing (his cut off finger). Peter was called wormtail because he could turn into a rat. And R. Black was Sirius's brother. I honestly don't think he's the one that wrote the note though.
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quote: when someone under polyjuice potion dies or is knocked unconscious, they revery back to their real body, the way the thing with Mad-Eye and Mr. Crouch or whatever his name was was. Plus, I think they would have checked to make sure it was him before going to all the trouble of that fancy funeral. It couldn't have been cheap.
Not the case, even with Crouch Jr. PP lasts for an hour at a time, and Dumbledore admits that Jr. probably wasn't being as vigilant as normal that evening with his hourly doses, and it wore off naturally after a few minutes.
edit: Oh, and Mama Crouch took PP too..."Until the very end" when she died. Everyone still thought she was Crouch Jr. when she died...
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quote:Another thoguht I had is that Bill will probably have an important battle with Greyback in book 7
This part of book 6 ticked me off, because she didn't address if Greyback had been caught. They found one of the Death Eaters Harry stupified, but nobody mentioned whether Greyback was caught after Harry stupified him. So we don't really know whether he's still at large or not.
Posts: 326 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
See, now, I don't see Horcrux creation as an incidental thing, nor do I see it as something that happens *as* the murder is being committed. Here's why.
The first Horcruxes were created with the deaths of Tom Riddle Sr. and company. During that time, he took the ring from Morfin. AFTER that, he asked Slughorn about Horcruxes and what they do (essentially getting the skinny that he needed to murder someone in order to make one).
Slughorn said a murder fractures the soul, and a Horcrux takes the broken off bit into itself. I think that the creation of a Horcrux is the process of isolating the broken off bit, then channeling it into some object. So, having the ring, he channeled the part that broke when he killed his father into it after Slughorn spoke with him.
I think the steps are 1) commit murder to break the soul, 2) use broken piece of soul to create Horcrux.
This is what makes me think Harry is not a Horcrux. Though I could be way off base.
On an unrelated note, did anyone else get flashes of a Wrinkle In Time with all of Dumbledore's "love" talk?
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Creating a Horcrux is a 2 step process - { the murder } which breaks a piece of the soul off
and
{ the act of creating the Horcrux } which takes a piece of a soul and immortalizes it into an object, or possibly, a living being.
It is possible that Voldemort could have made Harry a Horcrux, but INSTEAD, Voldy tried to kill Harry, thus Voldy did not want Harry as a Horcrux. It was possible though that Voldy INADVERTENTLY made Harry a Horcrux, because his soul was already split by the 2 murders of Harry's parents.
I don't think anyone can know for sure....
Posts: 201 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Has anyone considered the fact that R.A.B. might be more than one person? Didn't Dumbledore mention that it takes more than one person to get past the traps in the cave? You need one to force the drink down their troat and then quench their thirst in the end. It couldn't have been done by just one.
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posted
Well, if you were signing a letter to Voldemort saying you'd just gotten done defying him in hopes that he'd be killed, would you be entirely truthful?
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edit: whoever wrote that letter clearly has a heightened opinion of him/herself, and would not shirk from telling Voldie exactly what they thought of him, why, and what they did to foil him.
If i was the dude who got past the Dark Lord's evil booby traps, I sure as blackstrap molasses would let him know it was me.
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posted
Heck, I'd think a person clever enough to try and trick an enemy into thinking something incorrect would be more likely to get past Voldemort's defenses than one who was cocky.
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posted
Whenver I think of the note from R.A.B. it reminds me of I play. There is a note you can find that says "Dear Lubaf, I'm sorry to disappoint you but you won't be able to find the Scroll of Omnipotence
Posts: 175 | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:Well, if you were signing a letter to Voldemort saying you'd just gotten done defying him in hopes that he'd be killed, would you be entirely truthful?
That is an excellent point. I would've signed it "Beren's mother-in-law" or something.
quote:Not the case, even with Crouch Jr. PP lasts for an hour at a time, and Dumbledore admits that Jr. probably wasn't being as vigilant as normal that evening with his hourly doses, and it wore off naturally after a few minutes.
I think SM is right. Getting killed or knocked unocnscious does not negate the effects of the Polyjuice Potion. The reason why people revert back to their original form when they're dead or disabled is because they can no longer take the potion at regular intervals.
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posted
Whenver I think of the note from R.A.B. it reminds me of I play. There is a note you can find that says "Dear Lubaf, I'm sorry to disappoint you but you won't be able to find the Scroll of Omnipotence in this place. I have hidden it more effectively. You will need to find the red rooster at dawn. Then you'll encounter the final challenge. With passionate hate, Alhacrast, Overlord of Jak-Nagiur."
posted
I've been watching this thread grow and grow while I waited to get my hands on the book, and then waited to read it. (Last night I only managed about 10 pages before I couldn't keep my eyes open -- probably because of the only getting 2 hours of sleep the night before. That so sucked! )
And now, having read the thread, I have nothing new to add. But that won't stop me from weighing in on a few issues.
I think Hogwarts will stay open, albeit with a significantly smaller staff and student body. And since Minerva is headmaster, there will need to be a deputy headmaster. Hagrid, maybe? If not, then I think perhaps Flitwick. I think the school will show up in book 7, but only 10-20% will take place there.
I do not think Harry is a horcrux. I am, in fact, not convinced that a person can be one. The implication was that Nagini, as a non-inanimate horcrux, was quite unusual.
I am leaning toward RAB being Regulus Black (it was the finger-drumming that convinced me ), but am not 100% convinced.
I absolutely KNEW, while reading the book -- in fact, immediately after Snape fired that green bolt at Dumbledore -- that he had done so at Dumbledore's request. He cannot be truly on the side of evil, and it's not merely because Dumbledore would have been so terribly wrong. It's because JKR has established a Rule: Snape is tormented but on the side of good, and Harry wants with all his heart to hate him. As was mentioned by a few people, I suspect the crisis in book 7 will come down to Harry being able to overcome his hatred of Snape and trust him.
Dumbledore was clearly in agony from the time he drank the potion, and was begging for release. The fact that his death would save Snape (and keep him in the position of Voldemort's trust) and keep Malfoy from becoming a killer are bonuses -- and something Dumbledore expected.
As for shipping, I've been a Harry/Ginny and Ron/Hermione shipper from way back. So I'm gleefully thrilled. And while I was not a Fleur fan until the end, she was absolutely marvelous. (I will not be the third or fourth person to quote the same line, but you know which it is. ) And Tonks + Remus surprised me, but makes an incredible amount of sense.
Now, let's discuss Harry being a BONEHEAD. When Clark tells Lois that he's breaking up with her for her own good, he is an IDIOT. And she promptly gets exposed to poison gas, and kidnapped to be offered as a ritual sacrifice to activate a magical Celtic mask.
When Harry tells Ginny he is breaking up with her for her own good, he is an IDIOT. I hope she doesn't end up dead, killed at Hogwarts while the Trio are off battling evil.
I didn't cry when Dumbledore died -- I accidentally saw a bit of a spoiler on another forum, and knew that he would (and suspected before that). Harry is, as he said, Dumbledore's man. And to become his own man, capable of taking on Voldemort, he needs to be no longer dependent on Dumbledore.
But what did make me cry was this:
quote:And Harry saw very clearly as he sat there under the hot sun how people who cared about him had stood in front of him one by one, his mother, his father, his godfather, and finally Dumbledore, all determined to protect him; but now that was over. He could not let anybody else stand between him and Voldemort; he must abandon forever the illusion he ought to have lost at the age of one: that the shelter of a parent's arms meant that nothing could hurt him. There was no waking from his nightmare, no comforting whisper in the dark that he was safe really, that it was all in his imagination; the last and greatest of his protectors had died and he was more alone than he had ever been before.
posted
Harry notices that the locket looks smaller than the one he saw in the memory, opens it, and finds RAB's note:
To the Dark Lord I know I will be dead long before you read this but I want you to know that it was I who discovered your secret. I have stolen the real Horcrux and intend to destroy it as soon as I can. I face death in the hope that when you meet your match, you will be mortal once more. R.A.B Posts: 254 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
I am assuming RAB is in fact dead, as his note says, right? If he wasn't, the Black household wouldn't have gone to Harry but it would have gone to RAB. I mean, RAB could be a Black but I think he is a dead Black.
I am curious about the conversations that Harry will no doubt have with Dumbledore the Painting. This will be a transition we have never seen before. While he won't be able to "protect" him he will be able to give as good advice as he did in life. It seemed in Book V that Dumbledore relied quite a bit on the various old headmasters for advice.
Who will be the new headmaster? I don't think they will close the school. I think the school and graduation will happen. It will be like season 3 of Buffy the Vampire Slayer...graduation and killing the Big Bad were all a part of the same thing: growing up and facing life. That sort of thing.
I think he will get over this "Peter Parker disses the woman he loves" ending just like Peter did in Spiderman 2. He already was starting to realize that he is only as good as those that surround him with love. Hopefully he won't wait for an entire book to figure that out. Look how great they were in Book V as a team. Very neat.
Ugh. So what young folk fiction to read next? I love YA and Juv. fiction. I read some, usually before and after the big Potter release. Any recommendations for a soothing YA balm to cool the sting of realization that we will have to wait at least 2 if not 3 years for the next one? Read the Eoin Colfer stuff (well, the first one anyway) and it was okay. Got the Pullman collection down (Sally Lockhardt and His Dark Materials). We got a book on CD for a trip to Chicago this weekend with Ella Enchanted and Spiderwick. Any other recommendations? Go back to the classics like L'Engle and Le Guin? Any other good ones? I know off topic but the wait is killing me already! Gah!
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posted
I feel like Voldy would have made all of his Horcruxes before going after HP. He'd almost definately killed enough people by that point to be able to make 6 of them.
Posts: 2867 | Registered: May 2005
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ES: What's one question you wished to be asked and what would be the answer to that question?
JKR: Um — [long pause] — such a good question. What do I wish I could be asked? [Pause.] Today, just today, July the 16th, I was really hoping someone would ask me about R.A.B., and you did it. Just today, because I think that is — well, I hoped that people would.
MA: Is there more we should ask about him?
JKR: There are things you will deduce on further readings, I think — well you two definitely will, for sure — that, yeah, I was really hoping that R.A.B. would come out.
MA: Forgive me if I'm remembering incorrectly, but was Regulus the one who was murdered by Voldemort —
JKR: Well Sirius said he wouldn't have been because he wasn't important enough, remember?
MA: But that doesn’t have to be true, if [R.A.B.] is writing Voldemort a personal note.
JKR: That doesn't necessarily show that Voldemort killed him, personally, but Sirius himself suspected that Regulus got in a little too deep. Like Draco. He was attracted to it, but the reality of what it meant was way too much to handle.
And something funny:
ES: How much time do you go on the fan sites?
JKR: It really varies. When my site is quiet, it is genuinely because I'm working really hard or I'm busy with the kids or something. When I update a few times in a row, I've obviously been on the net. So the FAQs and that kind of stuff is just compiled by hard copy post that I get here and fan sites. I go looking to see what people want answered. It's fantastic, it's sometimes frustrating, but I do want to make clear, I do not post in comments, because I know that's been cropping up. You've both been really responsible about that, but that slightly worries me. I did go in the MuggleNet chatroom, it was hysterical. That was the first time I ever Googled Harry Potter. I was just falling into these things and Leaky — actually Leaky I already knew about, but I discovered MuggleNet that first-ever afternoon and I went in the chatroom, and it was so funny. I was treated with outright contempt. [Laughter.] It was funny, I can't tell you.
ES: I’d like to apologize for, uh -
JKR: No, no no no, not in a horrible way, but, "Yeah, yeah, shut up, you're not a regular, you don't know a thing." You can imagine!
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posted
Dumbledore said that he probably saved making horcruxes for the really big/important murders, so it's logical that he would try to make one out of the murder that will kill the person destined to oppose him. I'm guessing that Dumbledore had a pretty good idea of which murders he would've used to make horcruxes, and that there were probably five at the time that he was going to try to kill Harry.
Posts: 1547 | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
I'm now a follower of the R.A.B. being two people theory. If Dumbledore needed Harry to help him...who on earth could possibly get by all of the protections alone?
My guess is the 'A' stands for 'and'.
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posted
Also -- do we ever learn the names of the two children Voldemort takes into the cave at the orphanage?
Posts: 1784 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Kasie H: I'm now a follower of the R.A.B. being two people theory. If Dumbledore needed Harry to help him...who on earth could possibly get by all of the protections alone?
My guess is the 'A' stands for 'and'.
See, I thought about this too. RAB being 2 people, or RAB being a group or organization. But after about a minute of considering this, I remembered that in the note, there is clearly only one person talking. And they sound proud enough of themselves that they got the Horcrux by themselves.
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posted
Hey.... I never thought about the R AND B idea... Hmmm...
JKR really is hilarious.
And, finally, I'd just like to say that 1) we actually have no real idea of how the process of creating a Horcrux works and 2) even if we did, a monumental and totally unique screw up like a rebounding Avada Kedavra curse takes everything off the table, because who KNOWS how that's going to affect things.
Posts: 2258 | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Also -- do we ever learn the names of the two children Voldemort takes into the cave at the orphanage?
Um, yeah, right at the first time Harry sees a memory with Dumbledore, when he's talking to the matron of the orphanage.
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posted
Also, I'm with everyone here in saying I don't think Snape is truly bad. Dumbledore keeps telling Harry he's different from Voldemort because he can love, and I think that's why Dumbledore trusts Snape. He must somehow know that Snape truly loved Lily Potter. I think, in a weird, twisted way, he probably loves Harry, too -- he's all that's left of Lily.
Posts: 1784 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Perhaps RAB found all the horcruxes before he was killed. If it was Regalus, then they might be at the Black house that Harry owns! they may have even been sold when that wizard who steals (forgot his name) was in the house alone. Kreature may even be hiding them!
Posts: 514 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Kasie H: Also, I'm with everyone here in saying I don't think Snape is truly bad. Dumbledore keeps telling Harry he's different from Voldemort because he can love, and I think that's why Dumbledore trusts Snape. He must somehow know that Snape truly loved Lily Potter. I think, in a weird, twisted way, he probably loves Harry, too -- he's all that's left of Lily.
I think you are right, Kasie.
Posts: 514 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
If I understood correctly, the ring was not the first Horcrux, the diary was the first Horcrux. Do you suppose he killed Moaning Myrtle to make the diary a Horcrux?
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quote:Um, yeah, right at the first time Harry sees a memory with Dumbledore, when he's talking to the matron of the orphanage. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think they ever give the names... (could be wrong, don't have the book on me)
I forgot about the Gaunts, it's actually the second time he goes for a "lesson" with Dumbledore.
Page 268:
"'...And then,' -- Mrs. Cole took another swig of gin, slopping a little over her chin this time-- 'on the summer outing -- we take them out, you know, once a year, to the countryside or to the seaside -- well, Amy Benson and Dennis Bishop were never quite right afterwards, and all we ever got out of them was that they'd gone into a cave with Tom Riddle.'"
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
From the way it's worded, it seems like the soul is split whenever a wizard uses magic to murder; the Horcrux making can encapsulate the split piece of soul in an object at any time after that. However, I'm not sure how that jives with how many murders Voldemort has committed. Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
RAB Amy Benson could be a possibility then (Though I don't think it's likely) because Amy could be her middle name and she knows where the cave is.
I still think it's Regulus.
Posts: 1547 | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
You know, I was flipping past Prisoner of Azkaban on TV the other day and it was the scene in which Professor Lupin is telling Harry about one of the best virtues of his mother, her ability to see beauty in others especially when they don't see it in themselves.
I'm not sure if that one's in the book or not, but obviously in that scene it applied primarily to Lupin himself-being a werewolf must tear at someone with all sorts of self-loathing issues. But it could also apply to Severus Snape, perhaps even moreso.
That said, I don't remember anywhere anytime it being mentioned or even hinted at that Snape might have loved Lily Potter nee Evans, and in fact the only scene in which they ever interacted was the bullying scene between Potter, Black, and Snape in which Lily intervenes and Snape spurns her help.
Of course, his pride was doubtless very stung and he was humiliated, so his reaction isn't likely to be a true reflection of his feelings...but that's the only time I ever remember him interacting with Lily.
--------
On an unrelated note, I wonder just how much more potent a wizard Snape is than most everyone else? I kind of suspect that he was telling the truth to Harry when he said his father never attacked him unless it was four-against-one.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Four against one, but I don't Lupin ever actually did much (or rarely), and Wormtail would probably just stand there and laugh. Though if Snape tried too much in retaliation they would probably step in.
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