Topic: The REAL Battlestar Galactica Season 3 Discussion Thread
Blayne Bradley
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posted
Also it wouldnt cost alot wiother if we do most of our manufacturing in China we can be producing thousands of missiles, transports, and warships pretty quikely.
It will be ONE WEEK TOPS!!!! to design a Cruiser, 2 more to get the infastructure and machine tool designs, 3 more to construct prototypes, 6 to get the frst one build, 6 months later 2 more will roll out from the assembly line.
The more I think of thisd the more I begin to like the concept of the fleet seeing a earth in say the year 2024 or soemthing where China is in both name and actuallity a super power and Russia has recovered. Then Russia, USA, EU and China can fully cooperate as equal partners tow ard of CYlon invasion with the help of teh Colonial Fleet.
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I do not know about thousands, or about weeks, but given a year I am sure we could mount a hell of a defense. Given the way the Cylons flip flop on stategy I suspect a sound whooping would give us another year.
Like you say, we would all bid the job to get the tech and welcome the refugees just to learn what they know. In WW II America built a troop transport a day. I bet the China, Russia, the United States, the Canada, the Austrailia and one Battlestar from France, Germany and Briton all loaded with thousands of integrated soldiers, and sailors and pilots would join the Galactica. Then it would be time to go find the source of the Cylons.
Posts: 475 | Registered: Aug 2006
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I'm proud to be like a kid again. This is the best sort of childhood idea.
Hmm. Retrofit of the civilian ships to be at the very least nuclear gunboats. Good idea. Fire off enough nukes and not even a Basestar of... five... could survive.
Take a few Raptor FLTs and Civilian FTLs and figure em out, and then we can start building at the very least essentially boxes with FTL drives. If worst comes to worst, escape with the Galactica and a much larger fleet, which would include, hopefully, numerous supply ships.
Once the tech is figured out, yeah, it'd hopefully only be a decade before we can begin building battlestars. The technology on the ships that can do reentry and leaving the earth would probably be copied as quickly as we could make them work.
Anyway, while our main line of defense would be nuclear in nature until we can start building Battlestars, or at least smaller gunships of some kind, if we lose our ships the war IS over, unless they take enough time for us to build new ones. If they came, and came with nukes, they could just blow up Earth. Unless the plan WAS to take it over intact, and make it home. Then... land warfare would occur. IF they underestimated us, we'd win a round or two. Then we'd lose.
I can see the scenario going somehing like this:
Galactica and the Fleet reach earth, and make contact. At first, while happy to see more advanced humans that aren't wanting to kill us, we'd not trust the Galactica fleet.
Gaining trust would take several months, if not years. Think about it: If they popped up today, and made contact, would we really trust them? I don't know.
Anyway, given that liberal gifts of advanced technology pacifies us, we might get to work with the retrofits of the fleet, supervised by anyone with technical skill on the Galactica. If you go by the extended edition of Pegasus, Galactica has an entire library, including technical specs I'd imagine.
Reverse-engineering a couple FTL drives would take some months, but we'd be able to put a large number of people into that while at the same time putting large numbers into the retrofitting and resupply of Galactica, upgrading our current weapons to a satisfactory level to work with theirs if possible, replication of their devices for pulling out into earth orbit easily in addition to preparing the first stages of construction.
First, then, we'd turn a large number into nuclear ships, and send them out with Galactica to push back any attack, and hope for the best. We'd use some of the civilian ships that can shuttle from the Earth to space quickly to send resources up to build a drydock. If the Cylons actually showed up, and recognized the drydock, that'd probably be one of the first things they destroyed, so a relatively large number of ships would defend it, as well as probably every Viper or retrofitted human fighter we can build. The Galactica would probably not, however, and would go out fighting separately.
With the drydock completed as quickly as possible, those better spacesuits made in mass numbers for construction purposes, improved tools, everything, it would probably take a year to build it. On earth many shipyards would probably be converted to build smaller ships, some for defense and others, perhaps the majority, to crate stuff up there.
Soon more and more ordinance and resources would be pulled up into orbit, and within a year, maybe two, the drydock would be complete. Then the construction of a Battlestar, or perhaps multiple battlestars, would begin. Or at the very least large ships filled with heavy ordinance.
More and larger ships would be built on Earth with better equipment, and our nuclear shield would soon be supplemented with a large number of Earth-made ships, and even non-nuclear attack craft. Not to mention Viper platforms and perhaps small carriers for hopefully hundreds, maybe in some years thousands of them. (If all the resources on Earth were spent in building this stuff up.)
It'd probably be a decade before the first few Battlestars were built. But we'd be attacked before then. The first attack may very well be a single Basestar. The line of defense will definitely hold, especially if a number of relatively easy to make fighters (compared to larger ships, at least) are out. A few hundred of them might be able to at least match the enemy Raider force. (How they'll all be trained is hard to say. There WILL be a large number of experienced Galactica/Pegasus pilots, and if they spend all their time training, you might eventually, if you have even a year or two, have several hundred pilots for new Vipers.)
The battle will be ended by an attack of nuclear missles. We might lose some ships, but if we strike fast enough, the damage will be minimal.
Then another may come, to investigate. If the first one didn't escape, this one probably will, and a suitably large fleet will appear not long afterwards.
This gives maybe weeks once first contact with the enemy occurs before a sizable force appears.
They will, if they have suitable intelligence, go after the possibly incomplete shipyard. In this attack, depending on how strong the force is, the casualties will be great, a number of ships WILL be destroyed (the Vipers will probably be outmatched, if five or six Basestars appear, all fully equipped.)
Victory will come at a huge cost ,and a vast expenditure of weapons. The Galactica may be destroyed, along with possibly a majority of the ships- unless the nukes are sent in full force early, and the Basestars are overwhelmed and retreat.
Victory there will probably give Earth some time to quickly repair some defenses and keep up the nuclear arsenal. We have the nukes, all we'd need at first would be fighters and ships to hold nukes in. Perhaps nuclear dive bombers of some sort, each one fitted with several nuclear weapons.
In fact, that would probably be a priority. Nuclear bombers which can fire missles alone and then peel off- best would be if they were stealth fighters. Perhaps nuclear-armed Blackbird-type stealth fighters?
After the first major victory, the Cylons will probably be on guard before sending another fleet. Victory will be less than assured, thanks to overwhelming numbers of missles.
If there is only a year before the Cylons find them, they could very well lose the first major battle. Two years, and they could win, though future battles may be less easy to win.
If, however, five years pass, and the shipyard is constructed and the Battlestar(s) or warships are well under way, and earth based drydocks can build enough smaller nuclear and conventional gunships and fighters, they stand a good chance of repelling the first force relatively easily, and then repelling any secondary attack.
If they can hold on until capital ships are built alongside the smaller nuclear and conventional warships and dozens of squadrens of fighters (maybe fifty to a hundred forty-fighter squadrens?) and nuclear Blackbirds, and spend the resources to build one or more additional shipyards and guard them, they stand the chance of, within several decades, building up enough military force to possibly strike back.
If the Cylons don't find them at all... within two or three decades there will be a number (maybe as many as between five and a dozen) Battlestars, a large number of smaller ships, all armed with nukes, ready to go out and strike Cylong planets.
At that point, victory isn't in any way assured. But depending on the resources the Cylons actually have, it might be possible.
In addition, as the Cylons want to take over Earth, I don't think they'll nuke it. Though they might if the conflict becomes too hard, and they give up. They might even sue for peace if the battles become too hard.
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
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In any case, given how long the humans have been on Earth, I'm pulling for them to be pretty badass - more advanced than the Cylons or humans. Of course, I suppose that might not be terribly interesting... bah, at this point I have total confidence the writers will do what works. They just keep getting better.
Posts: 326 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Blayne Bradley
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Indeed, I'ld actually prefer if humanity on Earth wasn't too terribly advanced, beyon our current tch for sure but too advanced beyond Cylon or Colonial tech.
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Actually this is a great conversation. Especially on the forum of one of the few Scifi authors that has written a book that basically played out this senario. I think that the idea that if a fleet like Galatica showed up today it would cause a senario alot like what happens to the Earth in Ender's Game. Maybe not all of the Nations at first, but at least the major players would jump on board. That means that 90% of the earth's resources would get committed right away.
Personally, I think with the advance in technology offered, reverse engineering, and the extremely scary threat of a cylon invasion, the earth would be battle ready in a lot sooner time frame than you would expect. Especially if you were to have an entire library of information just handed over to the most brilliant minds in the world and not just the theories, but also the actual working items. That's all you need to make a quantum leap in technology. The plans and the object to reverse engineer.
As far as fighters and good pilots, think about the F-22 Raptor, the newest strike fighter for the Air Force. You put a skin on that plane that would allow it to enter and exit the atmosphere and put in new engines, it's ready to go. All you would need is a pilot that can fly in both environments. With all of the trained pilots from the Galactica and the Pegasus, the fighter pilot schools that are already in place on Earth would gain all of the trained instructors they would need to get earth pilots trained to fight combat in Zero G.
We wouldn't need a full year to mount an adequate defense. If all of our resources were focused, it would only take a full months.
Another thing to think about is the idea that we would not necessary need to build shipyards in space right away. With FTL capability, a Battlestar could be built on the ground and then jump into orbit. You would need repair docks, but at first those could be mobile and not nearly as extensive operations as you would need for building ships from scratch.
The thing is, if all we have to do is replecate existing technology, we would be ready in a much shorter time frame. Even building a Battlestar could take place right away. If we had the plans today, the super structure itself could be started while work on replecating the more difficult aspects like the engines, gravity generators, and FTL drives. But still, we are only replicating, not creating. The process of replication has a much shorter learning curve and time frame for completion than trial and error.
Amending my previous statement, five years tops to get the first Battlestar into orbit. Still five years would be a very long time to hold off a continual Cylon attack with capital ship support.
posted
An excellent analysis, what about the political situation on Earth, how do you see the Energy Tech affecting the big picture, how would the Galactica crowd feel about our terrorists?
Posts: 475 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Alcon: Good heavens. Get a life guys. You sound worse than I did with my gamer geek friends back when we were 14 and 15! Seriously, if you can think about this in this much detail you have way too much time on your hands.
To quote Jack Sparrow: "You have got to find yourself a girl, mate."
I have friends who have made plans for survival in the event of a zombie invasion.
posted
I would like to know if an FTL accident could account for all of it, Kobol could be settled by Humans from the future, the constellations remembered as a key to finding home, then the civilization grew and sent out the colonies, one tried to go home, ended up in the distant past, effecting the Greeks. Full circle.
But that means that Galactica never reaches Earth because if it does then the first FTL flights from Earth will not be subject to catastrophic accidental failure, unless it was a blind jump...
Posts: 475 | Registered: Aug 2006
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I am sure that if the writers have the show find earth this season it will be in such and way and fashion that none of us have a clue, well at least I won't and don't. Every show that I think is going to be at worst lame and at best dry ends up being great! And the shows that I think are ging to rock end up blowing my mind. It really is one of the best shows I have ever seen.
I have a felling that earth won't really be earth. It will be some alternate universe (for us that is) not for the show timeline. Some Earth that sprouted from the galactica past, not our past. I have a feeling that it is going to be set int he time of the gods though, well ancient greece and rome with a lot more technology.
I hope all this happens this season, it's hard enough waiting till every Friday to watch the show. This waiting till next season crap kills me!
Posts: 871 | Registered: Jul 2006
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Hmm. Good point about the F-22's. At the very least convert them into space fighters as quickly as possible until building either original space fighters or else new Vipers would be possible. (If Vipers are better, I'd assume they'd start building them pretty quickly once they have some F-22's up there.)
Without needing to build a space drydock, yeah, I'd say the first Battlestar could be finished hopefully in five years. In fact, if multiple Battlestars are begun at once, you may have several. Or at least several ships similar to Battlestars.
The problem, yes, is lasting five years. Depending on how much the Cylons waffle, and which way they waffle, and how soon they find us, things could go either way.
As for the OSC thing: The situation here is somewhat different. FTL travel makes it much easier to defend a planet, or at least it seems so to me. You can simply jump to the location of the enemy ships and try to blow them up if you have enough force. And they cuold do the same, keeping you from attacking the planet and vice versa.
One of the other things we would hopefully do quickly is start building colony ships, give everybody diagrams, and if we can do it well enough, pre-fab factories for replicating advanced technology, and FTLing as many people as possible off of Earth. Because the loss of Earth would be devestating, if that isn't done. By the five year mark, if all resources were focused on building ships, perhaps two or three fleets designed to build a colony on another world could be completed, with the beginning defense of some squadrons of fighters and maybe some gunships.
With hopefully larger numbers than 50,000 each, maybe multiple times that number, they could try to find other worlds, and if there are no Cylons there settle down and hope for the best, beginning mines and starting to build whatever defenses possible with the pre-fab factories. (If they look really far ahead, they'd send all they needed to build a Battlestar, sans the natural resources.
However, the main problem with all of this is finding Tylium. If Earth system has some, good. If not, ships need to search for it, and hopefully build some Tylium mines pronto.
If we reached the ten-year mark and are able to build multiple Battlestars at once, and have several out in orbit along with the fighters, stealth bombers and smaller gunships, we could start sending some of those larger ships to the colonies, to defend them better. (When they find a world, I'd assume they'd send a ship or three back to inform them of the location.) Before the Battlestar(s) for each colony is complete, some smaller ships, and hopefully some more fighter squadrons, would probably be sent, along with more factories and so forth to help build faster.
In 20 years, if the Cylons left them all alone, you could have half a dozen planets all with the capacity to build Battlestars, each one with multiple Battlestars (the colonies maybe have 1-3 each and Earth, considering the much larger industrial base, maybe having a half a dozen or so beyond Galactica)
But thye wouldn't leave them alone. Some of those colonies probabbly wouldn't survive. I'd say half, if they were found? The later they were found, the better their chances. Once Earth sent a Battlestar to act as flagship for each slowly growing colony's fleet they'd stand a real chance. Once they each build their own Battlestar, the chance soars.
Training everyone would be the main problem. However I trust, should we put our heads to it, we'd overcome that problem. Reverse engineering wouldn't be that hard, especially considering we'd have the schematics for everything anyway.
At the time of the Cylon invasion, the original Colonies had 120 Battlestars in operation at that time. This was the reserve force in wait for a possible war which they didn't know they had to fight.
They had the ability to build Battlestars and a lot of other ships pretty quickly, I'd think. On Earth, the first Battlestar would be the hardest to build, afterwards multiple Battlestars would be build simultaneously. Considering that the entire planet, not just a single country, would be building them, I'd fully expect that at least three would be started once the first was done (that's worst case- they'd be started much sooner, maybe even shortly thereafter) and after that possibly as many as a dozen, 3+ in the U.S., one in Australia, several in China, several in the different countries in Europe, MAYBE one in Russia, maybe maybe, one in Canada.
Once colonies were build, each with the industry to build, say, one Battlestar at a time along with smaller ships and the ability to crank out Vipers/F-22s/whatever, they'd probably each have one done within two to three or four years each. (A year to gather the resources, two years, MAYBE three, to build the entire ship the first time.) Afterwards they could probably build a second one in about two years, and depending on the amount of resources they have and industry from Earth, in addition to how they allocate their own potential, they could possibly prepare the capacity to build more ships, possibly another Battlestar, at the same time.
This is all if the first five years are done.
Now, the Cylons could probably get there beforehand. But we stated before the ideas for converting ships to nuclear attack ships, and the construction of new attack ships for a nuclear screen. We'd probably survive awhile there. A major victory would either make the Cylons send absolutely everything they have against us, or else back off a bit. If, as we would, everything is focused on building new weapons and ships, we could possibly survive long enough to build that first battlestar and send those first few colony fleets to find new planets and resources.
Depending on how long they back off, we might not be able to support them very much. If that was the case, hopefully they would be given the potential to build their own ships and Battlestars, as I laid out earlier.
Depending on how long before the Cylons find the first human colony, they might not be looking for it. Especially if they focus on Earth, and don't notice any ships jumping out to other systems. If they find it early, they'd probably not be preparing to attack it. If they manage to destroy the first ship, or not, either way a second, larger attack early on on the much weaker target would very possibly result in its destruction. And a search for other colonies.
Depending on their luck, half the colonies could be destroyed if they are found less than five years after their creation. If they have built their own Battlestar already, even if Earth cannot spare any reinforcements, they would stand a better chance.
If a planet is discovered after that mark, and the first Battlestar and a small fleet is completed, with another on the way, they'd probably win, and could, if they're smart and knwo the location of the other colonies, send for reinforcements if they're attacked again. That way, if there are a half dozen colonies, each with their own Battlestar, possibly one or two with a second one, they could send their attack fleets to take out the enemy fleet when they strike, and then return to their as yet unknown location once the battle is done. One by one, however, their locations will be found, and depending on Earth's situation things could go an interesting way.
It depends on the resources of the Cylons. By then, several attacks on Earth, including one or two, maybe more full scale attacks might drain resources. Even if they win on Earth, they'll lose a lot of ships. If Earth is destroyed, but lasts until each colony has multiple Battlestars, the human race will probably continue, as not all the colonies would be known, and they probably wouldn't all be found until their force is much greater than that.
If Earth is lost at this point, a lot of people would flee to the new colonies, in addition to the remnants of their fleet, and all the data they have. This would aid the colonies, and if their location isn't known by the Cylons, things could go well.
If Earth holds out, and has enough breathing room, we'd send more resources and factories to the colonies, in addition to hopefulyl new colonies (though we'd send less of them once we had a good half dozen or so) allowing them to build more, faster, using these virgin planets' resources. Possibly several million would be sent to each colony over several years, maybe up to over ten million each if there is enough breathing room to spare the people.
Now, say those hard fought two decades pass, and Earth is protected, and the colonies (by then maybe ten? First six in the first 5-10 years, maybe one more every two or three years since then?) would be building their own fleets. The Cylons might know where all the planets are. They might not know where several are, but they'd know by then where most are, probably. And they'd be searching for the last few. By now, Earth at least might be able to spare ships enough for an attack fleet. Possibly the first few colonies could be preparing a combined attack fleet (of colonial ships together, probably not enough to build an entire attack fleet each colony._) as well, and the attack of Cylon occupied territory could begin. I'd imagine some major attacks would begin once there are multiple Battlestars (any over five or so. Should there be that many, probably two or three Battlestars would be left at Earth at any time, along with ome of the smaller ships. Two or three would go out to attack, along with a number of the smaller attack ships.) However, by this time, full-fledged, relatively large fleets could be fielded. Maybe even a ten battlestar fleet in addition to 8 or so battlestars staying at EArth, along with another ten battlestars from the combined forces of the colonies, with at least 3 battlestars plus suppor tships staying behind?
The war would by then, should things go well, possibly turn. If things can hold on another ten, another twenty years, the Cylons might be forced into a ceasefire, maybe even surrender large areas to the humans. Oh, I'd imagine several colonies would be destroyed, and some damage could occur to Earth, but by and large we'd have spread out and built up enough to survive.
This all depends on the amount of power the Cylons have. They didn't need to match the 120 battlestars ship for ship, due to their virus. But I wouldnt' be surprised if they had such a fleet. Especially after a decade or so of battle against the new forces.
It also depends on their decisions. They might decide to stop fighting entirely, and leave the new colonies alone. It depends on their mind, as well as their power. I don't know what would happen.
I know in the series so far they've lost... eight basestars that we've seen, to the Galactica and the Pegasus alone? I'd imagine the Pegasus has destroyed a couple more during the days of Admiral Cain. So... possibly ten or eleven? That's a serious hurt, really. If the Earth's forces could match such damage, due to intelligent strategy, attacking only when they have at least equal if not greater numbers (made easier by having numerous support ships! Far easier!) then things could go well.
It'd be quite a war, either way.
If they knew where the Cylon world was, onve a large enough fleet was built, they might have a chance taking it out. Though even a combined twenty battlestar fleet might meet an even larger force in orbit around the Cylon homeworld. But if things are heated enough, and the battle is hard enough, it might be worth a shot...
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
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Another thing to remember is the fact that the only reason the cylons wiped humanity the way that they did was the Virus. They have played that card. Never again will a human fleet be built with that weakness. Networking will be left behind or security measures so strong that the cylons would be very hard pressed to defeat it. Either way, their ability to render our defenses useless would be a thing of the past. They need a large fleet to defeat ours, they just needed a large number of nukes. I would bet they have used up most of their stockpile already in the attack of the 12 colonies.
The show has shown that time and time again, in a straight on fight, the cylons are a less effective fighting force. Even the biomechanical raiders don't have instinct and intuition. The human pilots are superior fighters in every way. They take risks that are stupid and they pay off. The cylons don't do that. They only launched their attack on humanity once victory was assured. They aren't willing to take great risks to achieve victory. That makes them very weak strategically and cautious to the point of problematic inaction. They always think before going in. We don't always do that. We are reckless, they aren't. Being stupid and reckless are base survival instincts that are a huge advantage in one on one conflicts. They don't have that.
One of the cylons major weaknesses is that they fear death, true death, to an extreme level. Holding off a cylon attack force is as simple as destroying a resurrection ship every time. That can be done with a stealth ship and a raptor armed with a nuke. Stealth jumps in, locates the resurrection ship, jumps back with precise coordinates. Raptor jumps in with the nuke, launches nuke, jumps away as it explodes the ship. Add in that the pilot of the raptor is ordered to stay there to ensure impact, even if means their life, and you have got a pretty effective strategy for survival. Not necessarily winning, but definately survival.
The cylons will not commit suicide in any form. Humans see self sacrifice for the greater cause as a high ideal. We are willing to give up our lives to save others. The cylons, so far, are not.
Posts: 263 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Or even better, what if we destroyed their ability to download. By a computer virus or jamming system or something? That would take the wind out of their sails for a really long time.
Posts: 263 | Registered: Nov 2005
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A resurrection Jammer would be brilliant strategy, set it up at the fleet and the Cylons would never attack inside or it.
I do wonder if the Cylon 'Death Signal' can beat a catastrophic incident like a nuke. What is the band width for the transfer?
Of course maybe the Cylon's back up their consciousness every day or so, so that all they would lose would be the one fight, it depends on protocol.
Posts: 475 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by General Sax: Of course maybe the Cylon's back up their consciousness every day or so, so that all they would lose would be the one fight, it depends on protocol.
You know I have been wondering about that. The more I see of the show, the less likely I think that would be. I don't think that the download process works like that. I do think that the cylons are "networked" together, which is why D'Anna was able to recognize Athena on New Caprica, but I don't think that there is a whole lot of data transfer going on.
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I tend to agree, conciousness does not seem to lend itself to digital encoding. It might require an anolog download that would be massive...
Posts: 475 | Registered: Aug 2006
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I agree with the "networked" theory. We've seen numerous instances of Athena "accessing" information without hooking up to any sort of physical access point. In "The Farm," I think it was, Athena hadn't accessed the information relating to the number of women still remaining in the farms; and then again in "Exodus, Part I" Sharon accesses the Cylon Wireless to figure out which drawer the launch keys are in.
As to how this actually works, beats me.
Posts: 3932 | Registered: Sep 1999
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I suspect it is tied to the projection ability, the Cylon remains Autonomous but can create an information field, a virtual reality interface that allows them to process a large amount of information in an organized favorite reality interface. If that is the case then there is a limit to processing speed as a price for remaining individuals. It could be seen as a fire wall, but the possibility of dropping a Cylon into a reality that they cannot control and that will traumatize them is very real. Perhaps that is what the virus does?
Posts: 475 | Registered: Aug 2006
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Subs wouldn't work.....not even with retrofitting.
They are made to withstand compression, and would have to be built from scratch.
Also, you are all giving us way too much credit. It takes longer than that just to build a sub these days...spacecraft would be just as time consuming, at least at first. Probably even more time consuming.
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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A sub is many times stronger then it needs to be to be a spaceship. Think of the relative pressures involved. It does not matter that it is the wrong way, you are talking about one atmosphere of internal pressure versus a design for hundreds.
These days would very quickly become those days, (the days when our entire nation was building warships faster then the Axis could build torpedoes) when the threat is as real as a battle scarred ship with thousands of hours of footage of the bad guys and fifty thousand refuges from radioactive planets.
I believe there was an actual engineer written article on using a theoretical anti-gravity device to retro-fit subs and what would be required. I remember reading it in Asimov Science Fiction Magazine back in high school (ancient times 80-84) but the gist was that the super structure would be sufficient, in fact, massively over built.
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Blayne Bradley
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Gen. Sax while agree with most of what you ay but keep in mind that building WWII era weapons is extrmeely simple compared to modern weapons, modern weapons take alot longer to build.
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I agree Blayne, but don't forget that we would be getting their skematics, knowledge, training, and acutal objects built to be reverse engineered. The questions that we would have would be answered before we asked them. Add that to what we have already got and I think that we are overestimating in some areas, but still totally underestimating in others.
I don't know remember reading about the sub idea, but, you know what, put an FTL, sublight engines, upgrade the radar to dradis, add a layer of armoring to help them to stand up in battle better, and they are ready to go. The best part is that they could jump into orbit from their drydock here on earth. That's one year's worth of work tops if you simply stripped the needed parts out of existing colonial ships. Add to that highly skilled crews that are already used to working and fighting in an environment similar to space. The subs carrying ICBs would be especially terrifying to a Basestar. Each one of those boats can carry about 50 missles. No Basestar could withstand more than a couple of nukes before they are dust. One sub could carry enough nukes to wipe out an entire cylon fleet. Have one of those jump into the middle of a cylon fleet, launch all of their missles and jump out. Battle over.
I call that an instant planetary defense strategy. Kudos to whoever brought up the sub idea.
Posts: 263 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Can't the Basestars just launched half a million nukes at the planet, just like they did with the Twelve Colonies? All they would have to do is jump in, launch the barrage, and jump out fast? Unless some system can be build to shoot down tens of thousands of missles I don't know how we could survive.
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Blayne Bradley
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not if a global Star Wars plan is ever realized that defends ALL nations.
Except Newfoundland.... no one needs them...
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If the missles just cleaned the streets and sanatized the canals while bathing the populace I would let them hit France too...(oh and killed the pidgeons...)
I like the Jump in and out defense, I think if one treated the solar system as a XYZ grid with preset FTL solutions and a dradis net, defense in depth is possible, a variation on the A-10 Warthog air grid we used in Desert Storm, one plane to a grid responding to anything that fails to have an IFF transponder.
It is a good bet that they will not have thousands of nukes, but we sure do. Earth could mount a very good defense. All this talk makes me hungry to see it! Would we put the Galactica and Addama in charge of the Global Defense Force?
One could explain the lack of a language barrier by having the Raptors record a few years worth of broadcasts and create a language data base, or they might use the time travel origin to account for the similarity in language (Earth future to Kobol Past to Colonies back to Earth)
Almost seventy years of signal to listen to if the raptors jump in at various distances.
Posts: 475 | Registered: Aug 2006
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First off, many of you seem to be referring to the Boomer model as 3. She is 8! Not 3!
Also, people are talking about adapting our fighter aircraft for spaceflight. I'd be willing to bet that it'd be faster and easier to design and build a space fighter from scratch. It'd have to be vacuum-proofed, have a whole new engine put in, have a thruster system for manuevering installed... it'd basically require rebuilding the whole plane from scratch, which would completely defeat the purpose.
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I agree with that assessment, but a Viper does not look significantly harder to build then what we build now, in fact we might be able to improve on the landing gear.
Posts: 475 | Registered: Aug 2006
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Blayne Bradley
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well, we could convert current fighters for spaace flight make them remote controlled and send them on kamikaze runs.
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Our fighters would need directional rocket guidance systems rather then flaps and rudders, plus I think they might have to fight Cylons in the atmosphere. I remember a piece of Galactica 1980 where American jets scramble to intercept a pair of Vipers, their is a comment from the Viper pilots "Man these guys are good!" I remember feeling proud that the US military was able to maneuver with Colonial Vipers, silly I know but still a good moment in a bad show.
Posts: 475 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by General Sax: A sub is many times stronger then it needs to be to be a spaceship. Think of the relative pressures involved. It does not matter that it is the wrong way, you are talking about one atmosphere of internal pressure versus a design for hundreds.
These days would very quickly become those days, (the days when our entire nation was building warships faster then the Axis could build torpedoes) when the threat is as real as a battle scarred ship with thousands of hours of footage of the bad guys and fifty thousand refuges from radioactive planets.
I believe there was an actual engineer written article on using a theoretical anti-gravity device to retro-fit subs and what would be required. I remember reading it in Asimov Science Fiction Magazine back in high school (ancient times 80-84) but the gist was that the super structure would be sufficient, in fact, massively over built.
That's funny....considering my parents lived near Grotton, CT, and most of the guys in the neighborhood worked on subs...and a large number of people I knew designed and manufactured the actual subs you are speaking of, I MIGHT have a clue about this.
They wouldn't be fit for space at all. Not for any type of duration, for sure.
I realize we are speaking sci/fi here, but I really think that you are overestimating our production capacity. Not to mention our capacity to work together, without egos getting in the way.
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And what in the world makes you think a ship the size of a basestar would only have a few nukes? More than a few were launched at Galatica, on more than one occasion. I bet we wouldn't even be able to lock on to them. Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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I don't know the exact size of a Basestar, but I think the most effective way to kill humans would be to crash one into the earth. If it could survive through the atmosphere, it would be similar to a massive meteor strike in its destructive power.
If it's filled with nukes, say bye bye to habitation.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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I work near the McDonald Douglas plant, doesn't make me an aviation engineer. But we do have indication that Nukes are scarce and traceable. They are used sparingly, they are feared greatly as an uncommon weapon. The Galactica had fewer then a single American Sub. Also we have some indications that Cylons do not like radiation and working with it. I suspect that their are sharp limits on Cylon productivity in this area. Why are they looking for a new home? What does their home world look like?
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Recently. A couple weeks ago, maybe. I just finished catching up to the current episode a few days ago. (No, I never mentioned it to you. )
Posts: 1466 | Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: well, we could convert current fighters for spaace flight make them remote controlled and send them on kamikaze runs.
It would be far, far easier and cheaper to create missles designed for spaceflight than to retrofit current fighter aircraft.
Face it, Blayne - unless the Cylons come down inside the lower atmosphere, our fighter jets are completely worthless.
Posts: 1466 | Registered: Jan 2003
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Guys, I don't know where you are getting your infomation, but all modern aircraft, military and commercial, that fly at high altitudes will have a sealed and airtight cabin or cockpit. In fact, Chuck Yeager set an altitude recond in his last X jet for acheiving a near sub-orbital flight. All military fighter plans have cockpits that are already capable of space flight.
What you would have to do to retrofit an F-22 raptor in order to give it the ability to exit and re enter the atmosphere is engines that work in both environments, a skin that can withstand the heat of reentry, and a directional manuevering system for space flight. The space shuttle has two of the needed systems, so biggest problems are the engines.
Kwea, that's great that you lived near a sub base, but I highly doubt that you had this type of conversation with any of the engineers or sub designers at some point. So no, you really don't know what you are talking about. However, if you know any of them still, I think it would be neat to have one of them weigh in on the concept anyway. Myself, I'm not totally convinced that a structure designed to hold stuff out is going to be as strong at keeping it in. That said, NASA uses an underwater environment for training and testing their equipment. I would actually be surprised that a modern sub, I repeat, modern sub would not be an effective war machine in space. Probably fitted with engines, armor, and FTL's that is.
From my side, my dad worked at an Air Force in the Quality Control lab for aircraft repair. My niece is an aeronautical engineer and was involved in the X-Prize contest. And my brother works for an aerospace company that manufactures lear jet engines. He works in shipping, but he knows alot of the engineers over there. So yeah, I have my resources that I could ask. I haven't yet, but I think am going to and risk being known as an uber geek to find out how plausible, given the type of quantum leap in tech that Galatica would bring, retrofitting a modern fighter aircraft would be.
Kwea, if you can do the same. I would be fascinated to know what you find out.
Posts: 263 | Registered: Nov 2005
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I don't think the tech level (assuming that it's near modern day earth) would be much of a hurdle. How long have we been sending manned ships into space now? It's old technology. Making space fighting craft would be trivially easy, even without using any of Galactica's information.
I think the biggest problem will be the state of Earth when they arrive. What if the Earth is already in the middle of a number of wars? What if there is overpopulation and resource shortages? Will the people of Earth really welcome the people of the Colonies? Maybe they left on bad terms? Maybe they're highly xenophobic.
Getting earth to trust Galactica, cutting through the red tape, convincing the people of earth to work together, these will be the real problems.
We can't even manage to put together an "International" space station with a hand full of countries. Which country is going to be the first to spend their national budget on space fighters?
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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Well, let's assume that they reach Earth, say, tomorrow afternoon at 3:41 PM Eastern Standard Time.
So, the state of Earth now. I think that's what all of us are assuming here, or most anyway.
But the biggest hurdle to getting things working IS trust. That's the big problem, and the one I'd be most worried about.
Of cuorse, should we then believe their warnings of the threat, I think we could work much harder than we have in a very long time- nothing like the incentive of the imminent destruction of the Earth by an overwhelming military power, and the providence of having now the capability to at least hold out, should we use it.
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
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50,000 people with a new skill set? All with language and other experience we would value? I think Iowa would take them. Heck I think the Quad Cities would take them and build them all houses for what they would bring.
Remember that wherever they settle, that is where the big manufacturing contracts are going to be. I wonder if the Galactica would come to the United States or if they would try to deal with the UN?
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Blayne Bradley
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definately the UN thry wouldn't prefer to deal wit the superpower except in military terms theyld talk wiht the the overning body that legitimately represents the world.
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It'd probably be like (for lack of a better comparison) when Ender's Jeesh returned after the war. Everyone would be fighting to get the best and brightest.
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I think not, Adamma and even Rosalyn are very tired of the business of politics, a few generations of watching the UN fumble the ball on the television might leave them with a more pragmatic view of who has the military might and technology they can best utilize and integrate with. It would leave them with NATO and the US in particular as their point of contact. Can you see the UN voting that the Galactica crew must be divided among all countries? Even as VIPs they would face some pretty cruel disparities in the lottery to follow. The UN is a committee of sharp individuals who collectively can do nothing of any importance.
Posts: 475 | Registered: Aug 2006
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Yeah but just like the Jeesh they really wouldn't have much of a choice in the matter. Now granted just about everyone in the Fleet would go to War for Adamma after getting them off New Caprica but I still think that the political powers in play here on Earth would be falling all over eachother to get the Galactica's crew in their camp.
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