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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » "Lost" discussion *including spoilers* (Page 19)

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Author Topic: "Lost" discussion *including spoilers*
Morbo
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No, the wizard of Oz is played by the old mountebank /fortune teller, not Dorothy's uncle.
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sweetbaboo
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AR, we just watched WoO last week and I think you are correct that Uncle Henry and the Wizard are played by the same actor.

I'm going to have to watch this again because I obviously missed something when I was out for a few minutes. I don't remember much about Echo except that he asked Jack to be alone with the prisoner...

quote:
Also... when Kate and Rousseau were having their little face-off... my first thought was, "Rousseau, don't mess with her. She's a stone killer." Then I realized, "Hey, Rousseau is batty as can be. This could be interesting."
I was actually surprised that Kate backed down so quickly. That seemed out of character for her to me (as did Locke's outburst as mentioned before).

[ March 02, 2006, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: sweetbaboo ]

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prolixshore
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Ah, my mistake then. Like I said, haven't seen it in years and years.

It could be a coincidence I suppose, but the inclusion of travelling by balloon to a strange land seems a bit too much to be coincidence.

--ApostleRadio

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Morbo
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AR and sweetbaboo, I just checked IMDB and Frank Morgan played "Prof. Marvel/Emerald City doorman/The cabbie/The Wizard's guard/The Wizard of Oz." I didn't realize he had 5 roles.

Charlie Grapwine was Henry Gale.

But it's still in keeping with Lost's literary tie-ins.

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sweetbaboo
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Doh! I didn't see your post Morbo sorry (and you of course are correct).

[/derail for a minute]
I think it's fun to watch WoO to see who all plays which characters in Dorothy's RL and in Oz. I never picked up on that as a kid. So thanks for looking that up.
[/rerail]

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prolixshore
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Yeah, I checked it too.

Let me just go ahead and agree that I thought Locke's temper tantrum last night was out of character. He should not be so easily influenced by obvious manipulation. I hope that they don't run with that too far.

On the other hand, a major showdown between Jack and Locke has been coming since the end of season one, I just wish they weren't using bad manipulation as an excuse to bring it forward.

--ApostleRadio

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Morbo
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quote:
Originally posted by sweetbaboo:
I'm going to have to watch this again because I obviously missed something when I was out for a few minutes. I don't remember much about Echo except that he asked Jack to be alone with the prisoner...

quote:
Also... when Kate and Rousseau were having their little face-off... my first thought was, "Rousseau, don't mess with her. She's a stone killer." Then I realized, "Hey, Rousseau is batty as can be. This could be interesting."
I was actually surprised that Kate backed down so quickly. That seemed out of character for her to me (as did Locke's outburst as mentioned before).
When Mr. Eko was alone with Gale, he confessed to killing 2 Others who dragged him out the camp of the tailers his first night on the island. Then he drew his knife and raised it to his neck. I was sure he was going to cut his throat, but he just cut off a little tuft of beard or goatee.

With Rousseau and Kate, how do you react when you draw down on someone and they walk towards you and beg you to kill them? Kate had to back down, or shoot her.

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sweetbaboo
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quote:
With Rousseau and Kate, how do you react when you draw down on someone and they walk towards you and beg you to kill them? Kate had to back down, or shoot her.
Kate has always seemed to me to be aggressive and not one to back down. I agree that she didn't have great options but even her body language at that point seemed passive or scared or something that was so unKate-like to me. Another thought...possibly she was weirded out that Rousseau wanted to die, I know I would be. I don't know what I think now except it just seemed off and I can't put my finger on why.
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Morbo
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Very true, Kate did look very scared, even though she had the loaded weapon. She seemed very sure of herself when she drew, but then rapidly lost control.
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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by Morbo:
Yes, 16 years was Sayid's calculation based on the looping radio message.
quote:
Originally posted by starLisa:
Also, what's with Kate not reacting about Alex? When Jack was confronting Zeke, wasn't Alex the one Zeke called to bring Kate forward?

Kate never saw Alex in this episode, Alex was only in the flashbacks with Clare (if it was Alex.)

I don't remember who brought Kate forward at the showdown.

Zeke called out, "Alex! Bring the girl." Or something like that.
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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by Morbo:
Very true, Kate did look very scared, even though she had the loaded weapon. She seemed very sure of herself when she drew, but then rapidly lost control.

Crazy people are scary.
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neo-dragon
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I think that Kate acts a lot tougher and braver than she actually is. Sure, she may have killed before, but she's not what I'd call a cold-blooded killer. She was bluffing when she pulled the gun. She never had any intention of killing her, and Rousseau called her bluff. Simple as that. Kate probably expected Rousseau to back down when she saw the gun. When she didn't Kate either had to back down herself or shoot her, and she clearly had no intention of doing the latter.
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Leonide
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Everyone's so surprised that Locke is acting so "stupid"....but i'm not. Locke's character is NOT supposed to be a smart guy. Sure, he's been sort of sage-like on the island, but what has he really said with any substance?

The man was a peon at a Box-Making company, for pete's sake. He is *not* a smart man. He's a passionate man, and he does like to think of himself as a good judge of character. But he's not. Plain and simple. He mid-judged Sawyer (let's hide the guns!) and he mis-judged Charlie, even though Charlie did deserve a punch in the face. AND he misjudged his father. All three which caused irreversible damage. (especially sawyer! And i still think complications from the kidney surgery (locke leaving the hospital early, the shot of him bleeding in the car) might factor into his eventual paralysis.

Locke thinks he's all that, but he's not. And he's got everyone convinced that he's almost the go-to man, aside from Jack. But he's really not up to the job. He's got book smarts, of a sort, but he has no clue how to apply them.

Also, wasn't it LOCKE who made JACK keep Henry Gale in the room? Why this sudden change of roles? Suddenly Jack wants him to stay, and Locke's having second thoughts? Confusing.

And Eko's confession was bizarre, to say the least. That better have a good explanation in the future. Why would Eko, a very religious man, *want* to confess to a non-clergy member, anyhow? And what does confessing to Gale afford him that confessing to *any* of the other island members doesn't?? Too weird and confusing.

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Morbo
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quote:
"And what does confessing to Gale afford him that confessing to *any* of the other island members doesn't?? Too weird and confusing.
If Eko assumes Gale is an Other, then he would be confessing to a member of the group he wronged. Although the 2 Others he killed were abducting him at the time, he still feels guilt and wanted absolution.

. I haven't seen all of Season 1 so I can't discuss your interesting take on Locke.

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Elizabeth
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I just finished watching Season one on Netflix. I watched last week's episode. Of course, i was totally "lost."

What struck me about the island, though, is its similarity to the island in "Life of Pi."

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Mean Old Frisco
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iTunes sells the episodes for $1.99 apiece, Liz. That's how I caught up with Season 2 before my addiction got so bad I had to build my work schedule around Wednesday nights. [Razz]
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Lisa
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Monty:
March 1, 2006
March 2, 2006
March 3, 2006
March 4, 2006

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Puffy Treat
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quote:
Originally posted by Elizabeth:
What struck me about the island, though, is its similarity to the island in "Life of Pi."

The only island I recall in "Life of Pi" was the one with plants that ate meerkats (and men).

How is the 'Lost' Island similar?

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Elizabeth
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I think the island is similar in the way it seems sentient.

(remember, I am a Season One person, and I don;t know about the Others) It also seems to eat people.

Frisco, do I need an iPod for that? My daughter has one, but I am not sure we can do videos on it. I am still trying to figure out my dang Palm Pilot.

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Puffy Treat
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The Life of Pi island gave no sign of sentience, that I recall. Blood-thirstiness, yes. But no intelligence.

I don't remember anyone getting eaten by the Island in season one...the "Monster" did kill the Oceanic Flight 813 pilot, but that's not quite the same thing. [Smile]

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Elizabeth
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OK.
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Mean Old Frisco
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All you need is a computer, Liz. You'd need to download the iTunes program, but it's free and the video player is included. I use iTunes and don't own an iPod.
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Sterling
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quote:
Originally posted by Leonide:
Everyone's so surprised that Locke is acting so "stupid"....but i'm not. Locke's character is NOT supposed to be a smart guy. Sure, he's been sort of sage-like on the island, but what has he really said with any substance?

Yes and no. I do think Locke is smart- he had the skills that no one else did when they were needed, and he was able to employ them. And- however bizzarely- he's been able to somehow tap into the nature of the island in a way hardly anyone else has.

But Locke lacks a lot of social skills. He's grown accustomed to a position of respect, a position that something in him needs with a kind of fervent desperation. He's spent too much of his life struggling for control, respect, and even a semblance of normalcy. "Damaged" is a good description. Put bluntly, I don't trust him. He does things for reasons even he doesn't understand, and there's nothing in his behavior to indicate he has the best interests of the group, or even himself, at heart. Like the "swan" bunker, he's going to go off one of these days.

quote:
Also, wasn't it LOCKE who made JACK keep Henry Gale in the room? Why this sudden change of roles? Suddenly Jack wants him to stay, and Locke's having second thoughts? Confusing.
After last episode, I'm pretty much convinced that Gale is indeed one of the others. He's trying to turn Locke against the man who prevented Sayid from killing him. He has an agenda, and I don't think escape is the big priority.

quote:
And Eko's confession was bizarre, to say the least. That better have a good explanation in the future. Why would Eko, a very religious man, *want* to confess to a non-clergy member, anyhow? And what does confessing to Gale afford him that confessing to *any* of the other island members doesn't?? Too weird and confusing.
Annonymity. An audience that wasn't there when it happened, and can't judge him if he tells them.

My suspicion is that Ecko confessed because he felt a need for absolution and there were no clergy available. And I think the reason he needed that absolution is that he's building a church.

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Lisa
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Monty.
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Sterling
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Heh.
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sweetbaboo
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Repeat weeks are such a bummer [Frown]
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Damien.m
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Just thought Id revive this little(?) thread...
So what did everyone think?? Is Henry an other? I really got goosebumps when he said that stuff at the end. We know from the promo pics of ep 17 that a baloon is found but my question is if he is an other wouldnt he have known if a baloon had crashed and where?

Anyone see the trailer for Lockdown after it? what ya recon 'the five events' r gonna be???

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The Pixiest
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I think he's an other. The existance of a balloon means nothing. The original inhabitant of the balloon might just be another victim of The Others. and of course Henry knew where the balloon was because he prolly kidnapped the guy who flew it.

Pix

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Lisa
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Also, like the Others aren't capable of putting a balloon there? Why on earth would the Losties think that was even relevant?

At least Henry didn't claim he was from Kansas. That would have been a slap in the face even to the Losties.

What I do think is that Sawyer is going to find out about the guy, and he's going to laugh his a** off at all of them. He's the bookworm. He was reading bloody Judy Blume this ep. I guarantee you that when he hears about "Henry Gale" who showed up in a balloon, he's going to bust a gut laughing before he explains to them what idiots they are.

Anyway, if Henry were what he claims to be, he wouldn't have had any reason to spook the Losties out the way he did. He's an Other. Or maybe an Other Other.

Oh, also, I think he's British. I was trying to figure out what was bugging me about his voice, and it hit me: he sounds just like Joe DuBois from Medium, and he's a Brit faking an American accent. So my guess is that the same is true of Henry. I just don't know if it's the actor who's British or the character.

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kwsni
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I think the Other Anna Lucia killed (can't remember his name at the moment.) was a Brit faking an american accent, too. And Ethan's talking has always seemed a little off to me. ::shrug:: Could just be the way they cast them, but on this show, take nothing for granted.

Ni!

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Valentine014
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I just don't get this show. How have they had two seasons worth of episodes and have absolutely nothing happen in any of them? We have had no real progress of the story and have had no questions answered. There is no way they could end this show in a way that would be satisfying.

I am watching the same episode over and over. Same story, different perspective, but nothing new ever happens.

/rant

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Anti-Chris
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quote:
Originally posted by The Pixiest:
I think he's an other. The existance of a balloon means nothing. The original inhabitant of the balloon might just be another victim of The Others. and of course Henry knew where the balloon was because he prolly kidnapped the guy who flew it.

Pix

Which is why you find the grave of his wife and judge how long she's been there.

He's an other, though. With the preview scenes from next week, him escaping and the hatch going all bonkers, he's an other.

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neo-dragon
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It's called subtlety and suspense, Val [Wink] . We have learned quite a bit, just not very quickly. Besides, learning about the characters' past and their development is (or should be) as compelling as figuring out what's happening on the island.

Anyway, I thought that Henry was innocent at first since it would lead to some interesting guilt trips when Jack, Locke, and Sayid realized what they had done. You know, the whole "what have we become?!" (self repulsion) scenario. But I can't imagine why he would have said what did at the end if he wasn't an Other. It's like tying his own noose!

And what about Sun's baby? Is the english teacher the father, or could it be another island miracle that Jin is no longer shooting blanks? I'm thinking almost certainly the former based on the look on her face as Jin hugged her, and her reluctance to tell him.

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Damien.m
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I thought that the english teacher might be the father when i was watching it too. i dont know if hes an other or not. But it would actually be a good twist if he WASNT an other dont ya think? The writers have got us convinced that hes an other so i presume hes telling the truth. But maybe the writers knew id think that and he actually is an other. Or maybe they thought Id think THAT an he really isnt an other.....
Too many possibilities! Brain shutting down.....

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Lisa
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When I saw the guy teaching her English, all I could think was, "Whoa. A Korean Lex Luthor." And I don't think it was only because of his baldness, either.
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Earendil18
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I KNEW he looked familiar! [Wink]
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Elizabeth
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"And what about Sun's baby? Is the english teacher the father, or could it be another island miracle that Jin is no longer shooting blanks? I'm thinking almost certainly the former based on the look on her face as Jin hugged her, and her reluctance to tell him."

I don't think they have slept together on the island, have they? I guess I figure they haven't because of their backstory.

Here is a third option.

Sun slept with the teacher, Jin knows it(that it is another man's baby), and is pretending to Sun that he thi ks it is a miracle. Why? Because he just plain old loves her and wants to start over.

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T_Smith
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No. I believe Sun when she says she slept with no other man. Locke was in a wheelchair before the island. Is it so hard to believe that Jin's... er... problem was (for lack of better word) fixed?

If thats the case, then more and more I'm beginning to see that the island is providing people with their wants. And if Henry Gale is an other, he hinted at it. "You guys don't know where this came from, or how old it is? You guys sure don't ask a lot of questions, do you?"

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Sean
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I was taking that as a reference to all the complaints from TWoP about the characters never talking to each other or asking questions.

It was fairly clearly implied that they were sleeping together quite a bit after Jin returned from the raft (at least, they seemed quite happy when they came out of that tent...).

I was assuming it was Jin's baby, but I'd misremembered Lex as being gay rather than covering up a girlfriend in the States. So that would make a bit more sense now, but I'm still going with either Jin or some really weird explanation that hasn't even been hinted at yet.

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akhockey
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Anybody else hear Desmond's voice at the end of the promo for this weeks? Right after all the cut-scenes it flashes the Lost island thing and you can hear Desmond's voice saying "what have you done?!"

Here's my thoughts: Did Desmond ever said he was sailing around the world in a sail-boat? They also call using balloons "sailling"...so if Desmond was sailing in the balloon, and he crashed on the island, then of course the Others would know about it. So when Henry gets "captured", he knows he can use the balloon as an excuse.

Also, it's very convenient that right when Sun finds out she's pregnant with a child, the Others are right there in the action. Interestingggg.

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neo-dragon
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quote:
Originally posted by T_Smith:
No. I believe Sun when she says she slept with no other man. Locke was in a wheelchair before the island. Is it so hard to believe that Jin's... er... problem was (for lack of better word) fixed?

If thats the case, then more and more I'm beginning to see that the island is providing people with their wants. And if Henry Gale is an other, he hinted at it. "You guys don't know where this came from, or how old it is? You guys sure don't ask a lot of questions, do you?"

I don't know... Sun sure looked guilty when Jin was hugging her, and that was after he had heard and accepted "the truth". And was she really that worried about telling Jin that it was his fault that they couldn't conceive before? It's not that I don't believe that Jin could be the father thanks to another island miracle, but Sun's behaviour makes me think that something still isn't right here.

quote:
Here is a third option.

Sun slept with the teacher, Jin knows it(that it is another man's baby), and is pretending to Sun that he thi ks it is a miracle. Why? Because he just plain old loves her and wants to start over.

No way. Jin isn't that tolerant or understanding. He loves her, but everything he's done up to this point shows that he's the jealous and possessive type. That doesn't just go away over night, especially not in light of something as huge as another man knocking-up your wife! If Jin seriously suspected that he wasn't the father, I don't believe that he would just smile and pretend nothing is wrong for Sun's sake.
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peterh
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They've been on the island for almost 2 months. If Sun was preggers, she'd likely have figured it out before now, so I don't think it was the English teacher. I wonder if she slept with someone while Jin was gone on the raft and on the other side of the island. Maybe some character we've not been introduced to.

Oh, and last night in my dreaming for a short time (maybe 30 seconds) I dreamt that the Psychologist girl was a lesbian. Nothing gratuitous, just she was rubbing the back of some other girl all seductively. Weird.

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Lisa
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Peter, I think I had that same dream. Only different.
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peterh
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Here are several tidbits from last nights epsiode. Remeber, I included a spoiler warning in the thread subject, so you've been warned.

First of all, this may have been my favorite episode ever. Interesting plotlines for several characters. I loved how we didn't see the grave dug up, just found out that it was done at the end.

That said, here's some musings:

1. For an in depth view of the hatch projection with the lights out, go here

2. The real Henry Gale's DL states that he lived at 815 Walnut Ridge Rd, Wayzata, MN 55391. Coincidence that it's 815? I think not.

3. Possible reason for the lockdown: Drop shipment of supplies.

4. With the dropping of the supplies, that means that this is an ongoing project, not abandoned.

5. I heard someone suggest that the girl that Lock did the home inspection for was Sayid's girl from Iraq. I don't think so, she seemed more hispanic than arabic to me, but I'm not sure now...

6. Is it possible that Locke's father and Helen were involved in a long con on Locke?

My favorite line from last night: "When I need the guns, I'll get them."

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Lisa
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Even before this ep, I was pretty sure that one of Anthony Cooper's aliases must have been Frank Sawyer. Yeah, the one who took Sawyer's parents.

The line, "Oops. You weren't supposed to see that" is something Sawyer always said in the investment con, and it's what Cooper said to Locke when Locke walked in on him during dialysis.

This was the first ep in a long time where I actually wanted Jack to win. He's been a bad taste in my mouth for some time now. But I agree, the "When I need the guns, I'll get them" was the best line of the ep. I hope Sawyer's got some burn cream that he's holding back, because he sure needs it.

My second favorite line (favorite until that one happened) was "Should I get a ruler?" We laughed hysterically at that.

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Cashew
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I'm hopelessly behind in relation to the rest of you, less than halfway thru series 2, but has anyone shot Ana Lucia yet??
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sweetbaboo
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I agree, I loved last night's episode (I'm finally caught up). It was the most entertaining Lost that I've seen in a long time.

I missed the beginning though and tuned in when Locke's legs got smashed under the door (eek!). Have we ever found out why he was in a wheelchair? I thought while watching that the thugs were going to shoot him...

Interesting musings peterh. I'll have to think about those. I really *stupidly* believed Henry (at least the part about him not being an other) so that revelation was a bummer to me.

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T_Smith
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Yes. Keep watching.
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Lisa
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You believed him? Wow. I knew all along there was going to be a balloon and a grave. The Others don't do things by halves. Except that I guess they do. I saw Sayid standing there and wondered if he was going to dig the grave up. I'm not that surprised that he did. A little disturbed, but not surprised.
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Mean Old Frisco
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There's still the possibility that Henry's not an Other--or at least in the group of Others trying to kidnap them. And if he is, maybe he's trying to escape them?

Also, why doesn't anyone even *talk* about Michael. I almost forgot he was on the show until tonight.

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