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Author Topic: Heroes
BandoCommando
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quote:
Originally posted by happymann:
Anyone else find the "Sulu" refrence hilarious?

I did! I did!

It was more of a <snort> than a 10 minute laugh session, but still, it was a 'well-played' moment and a good bit of subtle comic relief.

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graywolfe
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:
Originally posted by graywolfe:
it's not a perfect medium, and even the great one's go into the toilet at times, every single one of them.

You, my friend, have obviously not experienced the wonder that is Firefly.
Firefly lasted what, a 15 episode run? A series that short can pull it off. Blackadder's incarnations were flawless too, no doubt because they only needed to produce six episodes. If you try and create a series that is consistently great, you're gonna struggle to hold onto that consistency season to season with anything. The only shows that have avoided the pitfalls that I claimed (somewhat fallaciously) afflicted every single show are those that had short runs and were cancelled (Firefly to some, Freaks and Geeks to some) or British shows like Blackadder that automatically have short runs.
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graywolfe
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quote:
Originally posted by Christine:
Honestly, I'm curious if the story has gone so bad that it is driving people away. If you're not, then maybe you should just ignore those posts. It's all relevant to the discussion about the show. I would only draw the line if someone does decide to stop watching and then keeps coming back to complain and ask why everyone else keeps watching.

Perhaps, I just don't see the point of going to the trouble of logging on, searching for the "Heroes" thread, and then posting about how much it sucks and you're not interested anymore and are going to stop watching. It seems like a lot of legwork for something you aren't interested in watching in the first place.

You're right about ignoring it, but you know pet peeves, they set you off, and that's one of mine, I just get annoyed when I see that sort of thing in threads. My own issue perhaps, that I should deal with instead of whining about. Maybe, but still, I do think it's annoying. I think I could deal with it better if it were merely presented as a straight criticism of certain particulars in the show....but your point is taken and it's as valid to me as to you and I'll take it into consideration.

So what are the main issues in general beyond being tired with certain characters, storylines, and episodes that don't effectively drive the plot and character development?

I heard a guy on radio discussing it last week, and his main complaint was that he felt it was intellectually vapid sci-fi, not nearly as creative, or as sophisticated as the best of Star Trek and other famous Sci-Fi shows, basically viewed it as like a McDonalds Big Mac of Sci-Fi, compared to Star Trek, or Fire Fly, or X-Files in its prime and other such series that could be considered the Filet Mignon, or Ribeye or of Sci-Fi.

Interesting perspective, particularly since I simply respond more viscerally to this show, than I do to sci-fi usually. I just enjoy it, and while it doesn't really engage me intellectually, it does engage me, although last nights would be a bad example. I just view it as a bit of a thrill ride, like 24, although with even less sophistication, and a thrill ride that's mostly fun.

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Counter Bean
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I like it
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Blayne Bradley
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DAMN YOU BEAN COUNTER! YOU STOLE MY COMMENT! The Timeline HAS changed, its impossible for Nathan to have a scar if he has clairs powers, if Hiro had never sent Peter to save Clair, Clair WOULD have died and Syler would have gotten those powers leading to a very tiresome and possibly desparate running fight between the "Heroes" and the "Villains" where the Heroes while able to hold their own constantly struggle in the future original timeline against Sylar and his little army of misfits.

The Dystopic episode of Gargoyles springs to mind with Xanatopia.

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Mrs.M
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The genetics part of it is interesting to me. Both of Micah's parents have powers and both of Claire's. Nathan and Peter are brothers who have powers, but neither of their parents do (that we know so far). The rest (again, as far as we know) are the only and first ones in their families to have powers. Then there's the Niki and Jessica situation - are they separate people? If so, then they are sisters who both have powers, born to parents who don't.

I love Greg Grunberg, but the character is starting to grate on me. I just don't like sad sack types.

Sylar would be more of an effective villian if I could look away from his eyebrows. I have an eyebrow thing and it's just very distracting. Also, I think they're making him play the character a little too off. It makes the other characters annoying when they don't notice that he's obviously bonkers.

The Haitian is so spectacularly good-looking that I almost have to mute the t.v. when he talks because of that accent. The show needs more Haitian. Lots more Haitian.

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Counter Bean
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That is 'Counter Bean' Blayne... It seems that those with the Genetic Marker do have an attraction to each other, mere chance is not sufficient to account for both Clair and Micah being second generation already. Destiny could be the force in play, or as OSC speaking through Alvin Maker said, it could just be that folks with these knacks have a distortion effect on the world around them that bings them into proximity. Probability distortions seeking to balance each other.

I am also with those who believe Hiro's power lapse is a loss of confidence.

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Christine
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quote:
Originally posted by graywolfe:

So what are the main issues in general beyond being tired with certain characters, storylines, and episodes that don't effectively drive the plot and character development?

That's all kind of a lot right there! [Smile]

What drew me to the show was that it's a sort of wish fulfillment story, isn't it? How many of us have imagined that we had some kind of superpower? And this story does one thing great -- it's not just something that pops up at adolescence. Even a 29-year-old old married lady like me can keep dreaming. [Smile]

I mention all that because if I had to come up wtih the *main* issue I would say it's disappointment. It just doesn't live up to my fantasies. I keep watching because the potential remains and because I am engaged with several of the characters at this point (Hiro, Ando, Peter, Claire, Nathan, Mr. Bennett, and Matt)

quote:

I heard a guy on radio discussing it last week, and his main complaint was that he felt it was intellectually vapid sci-fi, not nearly as creative, or as sophisticated as the best of Star Trek and other famous Sci-Fi shows, basically viewed it as like a McDonalds Big Mac of Sci-Fi, compared to Star Trek, or Fire Fly, or X-Files in its prime and other such series that could be considered the Filet Mignon, or Ribeye or of Sci-Fi.

Well, since I never thought Star Trek was sophisticated, this is difficult for me to accept. But then, that's a whole other thread! [Smile]

No, I suppose this isn't intellectually challenging but I don't think everything has to be. In fact, sometimes I enjoy simplicity.

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Counter Bean
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I think Heroes is walking a fine line, they need to stay realistic, showing that one special power does not fit a life's worth of problems and make them go away. It has to show the fantastic as it pertains to the real world. It is my hope that eventually the Heroes will evolve into a 'go too' team for crisis management and such so when that happens all this becomes background, it is good that the build up is slow and steady, it makes it more believable. Instead of having to swallow it whole from the beginning.

I do wonder if Mohandar is observant enough to spot Sylar's watch...

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Ron Lambert
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As much as I like the TV show Heroes, "realistic" is not a word I would ever apply to it.
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Avatar300
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quote:
So what are the main issues in general beyond being tired with certain characters, storylines, and episodes that don't effectively drive the plot and character development?
I think these are the main issues, and I also thing they're very important. Anyone of them would be enough to drive viewers away over time. Right now people are in the habit of watching Heroes every Monday night, but what happens next year when people have been doing something completely different for an entire summer?
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Blayne Bradley
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i would suggest that Nikki's power is somethign that possibly merged with Chimeraism (2 embryos merging together) but it seems like Jessica IS a real person who died when Nikki was veyr very young.

Could it be possilbe Nikki had a power to merge the mind of someone else into her along with their power? We know its possible to transfer powers.

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Lisa
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Was Jessica just Nikki's sister, or was she her twin?
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Counter Bean
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I am sure it is a split personality with roots in the parental abuse and the loss of her sister, the strength of character that allowed the Jessica persona to deal with the abuse also was a better mental fit when her physical power developed. So Jessica started out as a protector personality, but she eventually staged a military coupe and imprisoned the more nuturing and compassionate Nikki.
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The Rabbit
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quote:
I am sure it is a split personality with roots in the parental abuse and the loss of her sister.
But that doesn't explain why Jessica has a tatoo on her back and Niki does not.
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Phanto
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I think it's a possession sort of thing; I love Jessica so much! When she's in her uber mode, she's super cool.
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gnixing
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I'm starting to wonder if super strength is Nikki's real power, suffering from split personality is something separate. Jessica isn't the special ability she has received, but more like the agent that she is using to activate her special ability - like Isaac with the heroine. If she can overcome this dependency on her split personality, she may be able to manifest her abilities as Nikki.
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Phanto
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I really, really hope that Jessica is more than just a mental disorder. Super strength alone is quite boring. Nor does it explain the marking difference.
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BandoCommando
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quote:
Originally posted by gnixing:
I'm starting to wonder if super strength is Nikki's real power, suffering from split personality is something separate. Jessica isn't the special ability she has received, but more like the agent that she is using to activate her special ability - like Isaac with the heroine. If she can overcome this dependency on her split personality, she may be able to manifest her abilities as Nikki.

I've been wondering this for a while.
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Lisa
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Well, when she broke the nightstick, it seemed like she was still Nikki. So maybe she already can.
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Luet13
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Sorry if this has been noted before.

Has anyone else noticed that Jessica's tattoo is in the same shape as the genetic marker program that Mohinder found in his dad's office in India? I've been wondering what that means for a while.

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Christine
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I hadn't noticed that, Luet. Thanks for pointing it out.

I thought for a while that Nikki/Jessie was just a multiple personalities thing but now I am leaning towards some kind of possession. I've been wondering if that is Jessie's power. My theory is that Nikki has the strength and Jessie is using it as she possesses the body while Nikki is too scared to use it or stand up for herself.

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Launchywiggin
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same marking on hiro's kitana, also.
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Olivet
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And the Hatian's necklace?
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T_Smith
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Couple of idea's I have.

First, I think a cool route to go is that Nikki has the ability to make manifest dead people in her body, while Jessica has super strength. I doubt thise is the way they are going to go.

Edit:
Ignore that last bit.

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Blayne Bradley
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we also for a fact know there is indeed 2 separate people within Nikki.
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Launchywiggin
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I've always disliked the "mirror" scenes to show multiple personalities. It's a total cliché--and shouldn't the multiple personalities be exclusive? They shouldn't be able to talk to each other.
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A Rat Named Dog
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I thought multiple personalities could communicate with each other ... I've heard cases described in which all the personalities were aware of each other, like a little family or community. But that's just anecdotal, I guess ...
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Counter Bean
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One wonders how Jessica applies her make-up
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Christine
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Well, there is the question of whether this is a case of multiple personalities or possession...and I'm leaning to the latter. Mirrors may be cliche in showing the possessed person fighting to get out, but it's really the most vivid method.

As for Multiple personalities -- sometimes they can talk to one another and sometimes they don't. In severe cases, there are often personalities that are completely unaware of the rest and others that know all the rest.

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Launchywiggin
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I guess I was wrong. It just makes sense to me that if you actually had multiple personalities, you wouldn't know about it. Like the saying "crazy people don't know they're crazy".

Who's excited about tomorrow night?!

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Christine
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quote:
Originally posted by Launchywiggin:
I guess I was wrong. It just makes sense to me that if you actually had multiple personalities, you wouldn't know about it. Like the saying "crazy people don't know they're crazy".

This may be getting off topic, but as this is something I have always been pretty interested in...multiple personalities is actually not completely crazy. In fact, the fragmenting of the mind into different personalities is a coping mechanism that can take place when a very young person with a developing brain faces extremely severe trauma (extreme extreme extreme...I can't emphasize extreme enough). Sometimes the crazy thing would be to try to stay whole and deal with things that no human should have to deal with, let alone a small child.

...

But yeah, I'm looking forward to tomorrow night. I'm hoping Nathan comes out from his hidey-hole.

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Dr Strangelove
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THAT was more like it.
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pfresh85
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Yeah, that was quite awesome. Next week looks neat too. I was quite sad to see Hiro leave Ando behind, but I understand his logic in doing so.
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Blayne Bradley
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woohoo! but ya noooo Simon got shot that was sad. I wonder if they end up going to the alternate "original" timeline and find simon still alive.
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Blayne Bradley
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Andos not going to go back hes gonna follow Hiro.
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Vasslia Cora
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That was great! Now I just need jump 166 hours 50 minutes into the future... But that would mean I miss Lost [Cry]
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pfresh85
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So jump ahead to Lost, watch it, then jump ahead to Heroes. [Razz]
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Vasslia Cora
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But run the risk of jumping weeks farther then I want, of course if I jump far enough I could buy the DVDs. [Big Grin]
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Lupus
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I really hate the stupid "clips from next week brought to you by windows vista" It is annoying that they feel the need to put the clips in tiny little windows in order to make it look like vista.
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cmc
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I'm with you, Lupus...
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Chord
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The saying was "Someone dies." Dale already died this episode, but are we to assume Simone does as well? Peter has a lot of powers, some of which might be able to save her. Perhaps I am forgetting it showing her fully die, though.
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Luet13
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I thought tonight's episode was great. I am really looking forward to next week. It seems like things are picking up again. I wonder when or if Mohinder is ever going to figure out that "Zane" is Sylar.

And Blayne, you confused me for a minute there. I couldn't for the life of me figure out who "Simon" was. Then it hit me: You meant Simone.

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Blayne Bradley
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[Roll Eyes]
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Dr Strangelove
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Mohinder's not an idiot. Obviously Dale had super hearing. It won't take too long before he realizes that "Zane" also has super hearing now, since it didn't seem like Sylar could really control it. I think what likely will happen is that he'll get suspicious and then take a hair or something and test the DNA and realize that something is amiss.

And Peter definitely was not too nice here. I think its very likely him and Isaac will become enemies, probably with one of them actively working against the other. That would really suck for Peter to be a villain.

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Belle
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I have a feeling Simone does not die. We saw Dale die, that covers the "someone dies" from the preview, and we specifically saw her still breathing - I think that Peter is going to manifest an ability to save her.

I'm not sure how, I just get the feeling she isn't going to die.

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Blayne Bradley
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maybe through an empathic link he can direct claires healing ability to heal other people?
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Lupus
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I don't think Peter did anything wrong. The way he saw it is this drug addict betrayed him to Bennett in order to get him out of the way so he could have Simone. I'd understand why he would be pissed, particularly because he saw it as ruining his chance to control his powers.

As for the healing. Sylar talks about being able to see what is wrong and "fix it." Maybe Sylar's ability could be used to heal other people...Sylar just chooses not to use it that way.

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T_Smith
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Peter did a lot wrong. While he is a good guy, and had a justification for being upset, he should not use his powers for harm. Take Hiro, for example. Hiro is the altruistic good guy, and had he been in Peters situation he would have avoided the conflict. Peter on the other hand choose to engage in conflict rather than attempt to understand the situation and try to resolve it without the use of power. When you use that kind of power to force people around, you inherently misuse the power you have, and a misuse of power is corruption. There was plenty of reason that Peter could see why Isaac did what he was doing, but he didn't want to listen. He was blinded by anger at loosing InvisiWho and full of envy over Simone. In otherwords, he pulled an Anakin Skywalker.
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EKR
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Exactly what I referenced at in an earlier post T_Smith! (referring to Anakin) Somehow I think Peter is going to be the villain in the years to come....

Perhaps Hiro's time travel to visit past Peter was an attempt to prevent Peter from becoming evil.

According to www.herosite.net, Peter's hairstyle is supposed to change by the end of the season. Perhaps Sylar may get a hold of him, try to do the whole brain snatchy thing and for some odd reason Peter isn't able to fully recover... resulting in a SCAR. That could explain a vast physical difference between Hiro's past Peter and future Peter. Peter could be the next Lex Luthor, so to speak.

~Earl

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