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Author Topic: Heroes
A Rat Named Dog
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People like Dale have been dying in droves since the show began. She wouldn't be worth a promo. Simone is dead.
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AvidReader
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My problem with the promo:

"Someone will fly" And use telekenesis. And stopped time for a moment. And went invisible. Plus, he held his own training with Claude, saved him from Bennett, and did a number on Isaac's apartment. Flying didn't quite cover it.

"Someone will die" But we won't tell you for sure if it was a major character you like or just some red shirt we brought in for that purpose.

I really don't trust the promos. They don't quite lie, but it's close.

Speaking of lying, I LOVED seeing the Claire/Bennett show down. She is so right. You don't just get to say you're sorry and have everything be ok again. Sometimes you should have to deal with the consequences of what you've done. And it looks like Mr. Bennett will have to next week. *cheers*

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T_Smith
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The audience is already set on Peter as a good guy. They'll hint at it, make it a possibility, but they won't do it.
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SC Carver
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Hero's who make mistakes and aren't good all the time, and people who do bad things for the "right" reasons. Who knows maybe next they try to have some characters learn from their mistakes. Peter is a good guy who will use this as a lesson.

Now that it seems Peter has a great deal of control over his powers, does this mean he won't blow up NY? Will Simone's death drive him away so he doesn't hurt anyone else?


This week was definitely back on track after a few weeks of slow "filler" episodes and next week looks like it will be great, but some how I don't think it will live up to the trailer. I have a feeling all of our questions won't be answered.

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Christine
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I can say without reservation (for the first time in a while) that I liked yesterday's show. For one thing, Nikki/Jessie wasn't in it. [Smile]

Seriously, though, it was great from the first minute to the last. Peter kicked some butt, Claire and Bennett faced off, Matt gets involved with some crazy fringe "heroes" and I'm curious to see how far they may take him towards the dark side. Hiro managed to use his power again! (I knew he didn't really need that silly sword.) He and Ando have some tension, but I'm sure they'll resolve it...

As for Peter and Isaac...that was my favorite part. I'm actually a bit surprised at some of the reactions I've read here. I didn't see anything wrong with Peter confronting Isaac, who betrayed him over a woman. (I'm sure he cares about New York, but if he were thinking clearly he would have tried to paint more information about the destruction rather than doing a dedicated man hunt.) Peter never hurt Isaac. He may have been angry and meant to scare him, but I'm quite all right with that action. No, he's not Hiro, but I'm pretty sure Hiro isn't who Hiro is going to be yet, either. They're all still learning to deal with this and figuring it out.

As for Simone...I both liked and disliked that she was the one who died. Since I didn't care much about her as a character, I was glad that it wasn't someone I liked who died. On the other hand, I found the death scene meaningless and contrived. (Okay...okay...so I lied in the first paragraph about having no reservations, but it's just a nit.)

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Blayne Bradley
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poor Peter and poor Isaac. I think this is show is working its way up to some nonestop action.

But nonetheless, lets analysize syler here.

How do you sneak up on a guy who can hear the tiniest movement in your body? Its not just a heartbeat, thats only after she manged to control it a little I have no doubt that yo could hear every tiniest fraction of muscular and bonemovement knowing in way each move your going to make.

Telekenisis? Meh its fightable, ability to liquify metal? Its situational would be more useful if it was also possible to reverse it.

Also he apparenlty has some ability to not make noise as he moves around.

He can move fast and jump some pretty good distances.

Quite the challenge.

Thankfully we know at least that Peter can counter each and every one of these and more, although a few of Peters ability ala invisiibility is sorta useless if he can hear you.

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Chord
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"There weren't any [footsteps]" because he using the telekenisis on himself to float (as I understood it).
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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by T_Smith:
Peter did a lot wrong. While he is a good guy, and had a justification for being upset, he should not use his powers for harm. Take Hiro, for example. Hiro is the altruistic good guy, and had he been in Peters situation he would have avoided the conflict. Peter on the other hand choose to engage in conflict rather than attempt to understand the situation and try to resolve it without the use of power. When you use that kind of power to force people around, you inherently misuse the power you have, and a misuse of power is corruption. There was plenty of reason that Peter could see why Isaac did what he was doing, but he didn't want to listen. He was blinded by anger at loosing InvisiWho and full of envy over Simone. In otherwords, he pulled an Anakin Skywalker.

George Lucas's biggest crime is furthering the nonsensical idea that you have to be a saint or a villain. Either you're lily pure like Luke, or you're a blackhearted babykiller like Anakin.

Crap.

Peter is a good person. He got angry. Getting angry does not make a person an Anakin Skywalker.

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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by AvidReader:
"Someone will fly" And use telekenesis. And stopped time for a moment.

Did he? I thought he stopped the taser with telekinesis.
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Dr Strangelove
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I think he did stop it with telekinesis, but that's interesting that he may have also used time stoppage. I'd completely forgot that he should be able to use Hiro's power also, since he met him.

As for Hiro, what the heck did he do anyways? It looked like it wasn't just stopping time. It looked like it was either localized to the gun, allowing the guy to rush her, or he actually made the bullet move. Just going from my memory of the scene, I'm inclined to believe it was localized. Which is vvveerryyy interesting.

I'm really glad the little tick marks on peoples necks are tracking things. I thought that they might somehow try to give Bennet credit for "activating" the heroes powers, but that idea was nixed.

Simone will die. It would piss way too many people off to have her live, while I don't know that anyone would quit watched the show if she dies. And I don't think Peter can focus his abilities and give them to other people. He has to have a limit. And that makes me sad that his hair will evidently change! I've cultivated the Peter Patrelli look and now it's going to be gone.

I think they've answered a lot of questions with these past shows, while not immediately setting up more pressing ones, while at the same time leaving quite a few unanswered. Such as what the heck Sylar's power is. According to Mohinders dad, Sylar doesn't have one. And according to the doctor when Sylar was captured, the only one he had was telekinesis. But he obviously just picked up two powers really quickly, and since he's been doing this for a while he probably does have quite a few. But, none of them show up in his DNA or whatever. It's kind of confusing.

Anyone else kind of get a "Feast for Crows" type feeling from the episode before last nights? I just hope GRRM comes through with the next book like Heroes did with this episode.

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Farmgirl
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Okay - since I didn't see last night's -- Who is Dale that you all are referring to?

FG

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Counter Bean
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I think that Sylar swallowed a poison pill with the hearing. Dale was the name of the woman with the hearing power.

I hope radiation guy has some control or he will soon need a new team...

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gnixing
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I'm surprised to not see it mentioned here, but was anyone else excited to see Stan Lee? I don't know how involved he is going to be - since he doesn't show up in the IMDB cast list and doesn't appear to be credited anywhere. But, just the fact that he made an appearance gives me goosebumps.
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Dr Strangelove
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I thought that was him! Haha!
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A Rat Named Dog
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My theory on Hiro: This is a new ability of his that we haven't seen before. He actually backed up, then jumped to another branch of the timeline a different reality, in which the corrupt gaming-commission guy was alive, and could tackle Hope. He essentially rejected the version of reality he was in, and unconsciously moved to another, where he had a better chance of survival.
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Vasslia Cora
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I thought it was cool Stan Lee was there [Smile]

Also I just figured that Hiro did what he did to the clock in the first episode.

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Blayne Bradley
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nice.
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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by gnixing:
I'm surprised to not see it mentioned here, but was anyone else excited to see Stan Lee? I don't know how involved he is going to be - since he doesn't show up in the IMDB cast list and doesn't appear to be credited anywhere. But, just the fact that he made an appearance gives me goosebumps.

It was just a cameo. His name appeared in the credits at the beginning, so I was expecting him.
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gnixing
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
It was just a cameo. His name appeared in the credits at the beginning, so I was expecting him.

Yes, I was also looking for him after seeing his name pass through in the credits. Still... as far as I am concerned, he's an icon in the comic book world, and I'm hoping that his cameo means future involvement from him with the show.
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T_Smith
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:
Originally posted by T_Smith:
Peter did a lot wrong. While he is a good guy, and had a justification for being upset, he should not use his powers for harm. Take Hiro, for example. Hiro is the altruistic good guy, and had he been in Peters situation he would have avoided the conflict. Peter on the other hand choose to engage in conflict rather than attempt to understand the situation and try to resolve it without the use of power. When you use that kind of power to force people around, you inherently misuse the power you have, and a misuse of power is corruption. There was plenty of reason that Peter could see why Isaac did what he was doing, but he didn't want to listen. He was blinded by anger at loosing InvisiWho and full of envy over Simone. In otherwords, he pulled an Anakin Skywalker.

George Lucas's biggest crime is furthering the nonsensical idea that you have to be a saint or a villain. Either you're lily pure like Luke, or you're a blackhearted babykiller like Anakin.

Crap.

Peter is a good person. He got angry. Getting angry does not make a person an Anakin Skywalker.

Was Anakin prior to bowing down before Darth Sidious and declaring himself Lord Vader, lily pure or blackhearted babykiller? I may have misinterpreted the movie based upon my own judgements, experiences, and decisions and made a bad analogy if that's the case.
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Belle
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You guys are right - I just finished re-watching it (DVR is a beautiful thing) and Simone is definitely dead.

Unless he goes back in time to change it, but after establishing that Hiro couldn't do that to save Charlie, I hope they don't do that.

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Phanto
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I think the hearing is going to be bad for him at first; until he learns to control it, like she did. There is a lot of "subtle" product placement in the show, though.
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Olivet
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Yeah. Seeing that iPod in a pool of blood sure made want to go out and buy one just like it...

Well, actually no it didn't.

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Frisco
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You know you want to hop into your Versa and go to the Apple store.

Personally, I want a pigeon.

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Phanto
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Yeah, I was thinking about that. There must be money involved somewhere, if a product is being given that kind of casual exposure, but the blood kinda took away from it.

Alone, I'd have not thought much more. Yet, there are other products referenced. ^^;;

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TomDavidson
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quote:
Still... as far as I am concerned, he's an icon in the comic book world, and I'm hoping that his cameo means future involvement from him with the show.
*shudder* His era has passed, you realize. There's a reason Gary Gygax no longer designs RPG supplements for WotC, too.
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Lisa
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Simone is not dead. At least not according to Michael Ausiello. On the other hand, she isn't going to recover, so yeah, Isaac did kill her.
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TheHumanTarget
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The woman who plays Simone was quoted in an article (I'll find it and link) about how she had been taken aside and told that her character was going to be killed off, and then she spent the entire time during filming crying.

Link to article

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BlackBlade
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It kinda bothers me that Sylar while pretending to be just a normal guy with Mohinder does a terrible job acting the part. He comes across as at best, off and at worst, creepy, even when he is trying to be comforting.
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Christine
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quote:
The 30-year-old actress has been in tears on and off ever since show creator Tim Kring informed her in December of Simone's fate. "My story line just wasn't there," she acknowledges. "They just couldn't figure out where to go with Simone."
This worries me. I have been wondering all along how much planning the writers have done. I know Simone was a very small part of the show but still, it makes me wonder how much planning they've done in general. This is a complex show and when you haven't properly planned it out you risk inconsistencies, plot holes, and writing yourself into a corner.
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Avatar300
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
It kinda bothers me that Sylar while pretending to be just a normal guy with Mohinder does a terrible job acting the part. He comes across as at best, off and at worst, creepy, even when he is trying to be comforting.

I thought he was supposed to be off and creepy, he's insane.
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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by Avatar300:
quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
It kinda bothers me that Sylar while pretending to be just a normal guy with Mohinder does a terrible job acting the part. He comes across as at best, off and at worst, creepy, even when he is trying to be comforting.

I thought he was supposed to be off and creepy, he's insane.
Yes but he has to present himself as normal or else Mohinder would be hesitant to take him.

Plenty of insane people can act perfectly normal. Ted Bundy is a good example.

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The Rabbit
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Mohinder seems aware that Sylar is kind of creepy. I think he has been thrown so far because he doesn't know what to expect from people with these extraordinary abilities so he is giving him the benefit of the doubt. I'm hoping it doesn't take more than one more episode for Mohinder to figure out that something is seriously wrong.
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The Rabbit
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quote:
Plenty of insane people can act perfectly normal. Ted Bundy is a good example.
I was unaware that Ted Bundy had been diagnosed with any mental illness, so technically he wasn't insane. Of course that assumes a definition of sane which could encompass serial killers.
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BandoCommando
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It is interesting (to me at least) to note that this week's 'graphic novel' confirmed that Sylar did indeed kill Hiro's friend from Texas and her death wasn't the result of some other kind of accident.
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The Rabbit
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I didn't think that was ever in doubt.
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Elmer's Glue
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Peter definitely used telekinesis to stop the tazer. When I first saw it I was all excited that he was using Hiro's power, but then Invisoguy was moving in the background and when the camera went back to Bennett and the Haitian they were moving too.

I saw Stan Lee in the opening credits and I was confused for a second and thought he was a producer or something. I think it's great how Hiro is with all these nerd icons.

I don't believe for a second that Ando is gone for good. He well probably be back just in time to save Hiro.

Everyone seems to be taking Ted's power way too lightly. He is too dangerous to be hanging out with. He wouldn't even have to intend to kill you and he could give you cancer, or blow you up.

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Dr Strangelove
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I think he's learned to control it a lot better.
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Lyrhawn
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Some comments to things I've read:

Thank god they are going to cut Peter's hair, it's bothered me more than most things in the show.

I think Peter did use time stopping to stop the taser, from the way it slowed and stopped, and the lack of reaction from Bennet and Haitian, it seemed like time powers to me. Given how he's used telekinesis thus far, as a blunt instrument, it seems more likely.

Christine - Not thinking Star Trek is sophisticated depends on which series you're watching and how much you're paying attention, because it's definetely there.

Lisa - Luke and Anakin weren't nearly so one dimensional figures. Luke moreso than Anakin. If anything, Star Wars was all about a discussion on grey areas and the rationale used to defend them rather than everything being all good or all evil. Obi-Wan was the posterchild for that.

I thought the last couple episodes were friggin awesome. Even Parkman and Niki managed not to annoy me. I can't wait for the last two episodes, but I'm going to die waiting for next season.

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Christine
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quote:

Christine - Not thinking Star Trek is sophisticated depends on which series you're watching and how much you're paying attention, because it's definetely there.

I know what's there. I mostly watched TNG, but I was definitely into it until I started watching other scifi shows and saw what scifi could be and could do. If you want to explore this more fully, start a Star Trek thread and I'll share my full thoughts. I don't want to clutter this one up, though. [Smile]

You dug that comment up from a while back...I think we were discussing whether or not Heroes is sophisticated and I'd say not really, no. This is a simple concept and a very simple execution with very little depth. I am increasingly of the opinion that the writers have done very little planning, which could come back to bite them pretty hard. Still...it's got promise and this week's episode was very good.

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Mucus
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For the record, I love the show. However, the reference to the woman's blood sample being sequenced by the Human Genome Project and thus being able to track her and her ability, ugh.

That part is just absurd. I just had to say it because the show's incorrect references to genetics have been getting more and more annoying.

They should really give up the references to the Human Genome Project.

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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:
Plenty of insane people can act perfectly normal. Ted Bundy is a good example.
I was unaware that Ted Bundy had been diagnosed with any mental illness, so technically he wasn't insane. Of course that assumes a definition of sane which could encompass serial killers.
Exactly. Where did it say anywhere that Sylar is mentally insane? I just think we assume that because he kills alot of people he is insane. But then again all the people he kills have something he wants. So its not as if he kills randomly.
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Christine
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:
Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:
Plenty of insane people can act perfectly normal. Ted Bundy is a good example.
I was unaware that Ted Bundy had been diagnosed with any mental illness, so technically he wasn't insane. Of course that assumes a definition of sane which could encompass serial killers.
Exactly. Where did it say anywhere that Sylar is mentally insane? I just think we assume that because he kills alot of people he is insane. But then again all the people he kills have something he wants. So its not as if he kills randomly.
Sort of. He certainly started out this way...killing for personal gain (which, while not what most people would consider moral, is an age-old part of human nature). The thing is, that he has gone another step and seems to be taking pleasure in it now. Remember when he was with Claire's mom and he said he was trying to decide whether or not to kill her? He was toying with her...having fun with it. Now, he didn't go through with killing her (or even Mr. Bennett, who I thought would get it for sure), but the point is that he has been tinged with evil that goes beyond killing for gain. He's sadistic.
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BlackBlade
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But don't forget it was Mr. Bennett that kidnapped Sylar and was mercilessly keeping him on the verge of death.

Sylar loves having power, it would be maddening if somebody made you into their helpless prisoner. I think he saw Mrs. Bennet more as a way to get back at Mr. Bennet. Notice his plan was to get to Clair and leave Mr. Bennet alive to know that he had killed her. Also he broke Mrs. Bennets cellphone and tossed her into a cabinet, as well as scaring her with his voice.

We still do not know if he planned to kill her outright.

Sylar does not fit the role of a sadist IMO. He does not torture his victims, indeed he seems to very quickly and efficiently open their heads and work on their brains until he has their powers. He does not do any unnecessary damage to them.

He does not take trophies, though you could argue taking their powers might constitute taking one.

If Sylar was a racist who killed people because of their ethnicity, or if Sylar was a common street thug who killed others for their money, we probably would not call him crazy.

His actions are very calculated which also points alittle bit more towards sane. Genuinely crazy people usually do not do things in an efficient manner.

Perhaps Sadism still falls within the realm of the sane.

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Phanto
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...which is a frightening conclusion.
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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by Phanto:
...which is a frightening conclusion.

Not necessarily, do you laugh at other people's misfortune to a degree? That to me is at least a lesser form of sadism, and it has wide spread acceptance. The only thing most people balk at is being the actual cause of the person's misfortune, as we are not culpable then when the person gets hurt. We can take that even to the extreme of laughing when we unintentionally hurt somebody in a non permanent manner.

If my grandma tripped and fell on me she would literally render herself unable to do ANYTHING with her laughing until we had both starved to death. The fact she is fully aware that her laughter is making the situation worse only makes her laugh harder; its a terrible, vicious cycle.

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The Rabbit
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quote:
Exactly. Where did it say anywhere that Sylar is mentally insane?
I though I remembered Bennett making such a comment when they had Sylar inprisoned. Something to the effect that all the changes to his DNA corrupting his brain.
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Christine
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quote:
do you laugh at other people's misfortune to a degree? That to me is at least a lesser form of sadism, and it has wide spread acceptance.
No, I do *not* laugh at other people's misfortunes. I know that many people do, but I do not like this at all and do not understand why it is socially acceptable.
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The Rabbit
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
Do you laugh at other people's misfortune to a degree? That to me is at least a lesser form of sadism, and it has wide spread acceptance.

No, Sadism is defined as "a sexual perversion in which gratification is obtained by the infliction of physical or mental pain on others".

Sadism necessarily implies that you enjoy inflicting pain on others. To laugh or even be wryly amused at anothers misfortune is not akin to enjoying inflicting pain on others. What you are talking about is Schadenfreude and it is fundamentally different from Sadism.

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cmc
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I'm giddy right now... I hope the rest of this episode is as giddiness-inspiring!!!

edit: i'm ridiculously entertained right now!!!

[ February 26, 2007, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: cmc ]

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